Honest questions for you yanks because your country is the perfect example of a lot of things

Why do half of all Americans make 30,000 dollars or less?

Is it acceptable that a person can work full time and not have enough money to live. (yes i know there are starter jobs, but 30,000 dollars a year or less is so widespread it seems a lot of people get stuck at entry level positions)

Should a person who has worked their entire adult life, get to 65 and then not have the money to live relatively comfortably in their old age.

Should a person from a lower/middle class background be dissuaded from further education because they will be unable to pay for it?... does this not create a system where rich people are better educated and wouldn't this limit social mobility.

I'm a conservative and I'm not in favor of handouts or super high taxes on the rich because it limits agency and motivation but I can't help but feel that these issues require some sort of economic/governmental interface and restructuring.

Everyone wants anyone who works hard to not have to constantly worry about money and work until they die right?

to stay in a position where you make that little you have to have literally zero motivation to progress, literally just mindless monkeys who come to work and see how long they can get away with ducking around on their phones or on their work computer without getting any actual work done

i think its too wides spread for that to be the case in all cases.. if a guy is working until he is 80 to pay for health care, does he lack motivation?

Mindless monkey here who lives off of 10k a year easy. I have a roof over my head and eat like a god damn king. 'm a cripple and I get no government assistance. I enjoy the struggle of survival. Why the fuck do I need more money?

Mofo's be like "Revolt Against the Modern World" on here...pft.

Struggle builds character. Comfort is your enemy. Don't devote your life to the (((Shekel Game))).

By half are those statistics including stay at home wifes and part-timers young or old? Family income is a better measure. Also, post your sources, and don't use that spacing faggot. Lies damn lies and statistics. Its probably true in Liechtenstein too if you count children and 70+ in the mix. Be more specific. Also, niggers.

the statistics needs to be scrutinize because you can get "false results", reasons: inmigrants, gheto communities with profound crime culture. those two reasons are enough to skew data and "block the view" at what is really happening.

I use formal spacing, also its easier for me to read back.

not everyone rises to the top. some people get left behind. that being said what the fuck do you think would happen? these cock suckers flood the usa with uneducated and low iq subhuman spics who make up half the country now and you wonder why there's wealth disparity?

Many people are complacent and cowardly when trying to get what they are worth, or have an unrealistic expectation of their worth. Like you need to be willing to quit if you don't get what you want, and the bosses need to know that you aren't desperate for your job, they'll take advantage of it every time. Lots of people making careers out of walmart and mcdonalds when those jobs never offered a living pay, they were side gigs for high school and college kids.
I live in a fairly rundown midwest city and make 45k easy before overtime doing factory work and it was really easy to get hired, bosses know once you have a few years experience on the machines you can go anywhere so they pay very competitively, and all the old baby boomers are retiring or have already retired. Millennials are either afraid to get dirty or think the work is beneath them, so they wait on people at starbucks instead.

We don't need more 'college educated' cubical drones, so many high paying skilled labor jobs waiting out there.

Brrraaappp

living above your means just makes you retarded, you can live off 30k a year, the problem is people want to have fun off 30k a year.
If you work you entire adult life you should have been saving and investing in something, either education, 5k can get you certified in a trade skill that can get you 50k plus a year starting, or a business, or into assets that can help grow your money.
Like i said before 5k gets you certified in a trade that get get you 50k starting, you just have to not be retarded and pick something that will get you hired like welding, or electrical engineering, and you can always specialize later on to make shit tons more money.
You cant rely on government to take care of you, they will fuck you over every chance they get, if you want to live a good life you need to secure your own future and not ask the government to do it for you.

glad you learned something in college, apart from your political indoctrination.
what school did you go to by the way?

Only a dyslexic faggot would say that. Also, post statistics you massive faggot.

ivy league...

I got a law degree in my early twenties, took a few years off to travel.

Worked shitty jobs to build up funds, went back to college to pursue psychology, I'm doing my doctoral thesis this year (age 29).

Not for you, you sound like a dopey cunt.

Sorry to hear that. Did you stick your dick in a pig's mouth too? You're the dopey cunt. I'm listening to church music and getting some tabs up on economic data to debate you. I'm at a severe disadvantage as I can't copypaste. You get called a faggot hen you obviously don't know how Sup Forums is supposed to work.

you are acting like 30000 is too little

Don't bother , I'm not interested in speaking to you, you sound like a typical Sup Forums teenager to me. pointlessly hostile and biased

one word: minorities

This. 30K /year for 45 years is plenty to survive and have enough left over for retirement.

The problem comes if you squander it on stupid shit.

I push a rock up and down a hill all day full time. Why not make enough money for live

people here in serbia earn a lot less than 30000 dollars a year. But because of it our prices are a lot lower. The only problem are electronics.

Hahaha fucking Americans. Probably the most ridiculous country in the world.

> Probably the most ridiculous country in the world.
Except for the EU

Most Americans live in rural areas where everything is cheaper than in Europe. They have a potent local industry and almost no need for import of basic stuff.
Do you think 30k isn't enough to live in small town in Idaho?

I just came to this thread to say that poor people always have money for cigarettes and going out on the weekends.

the EU isnt a country.

In my shit country on a wage of 700 euros a month I saved up 6k in a year. No drug dealing no nothing just hard work and savings.
If Americans can't save atleast 25k every year on 30k then they should be mourned for.

Yea, it's more like a shithole

You have a girlfriend too, right?

Its pretty nice here actually.

>pointlessly hostile and biased
>pointlessly hostile
>pointless

he is right thou, spacing makes it more
organise and clear.

it's all fucked but I'm sure it would be better if it wasn't for niggers and immigrants

Rich people are motivated by having more money
Poor people are motivated by having less money

Exactly, it precludes dialogue.

kek. talking about "spacing".... I fuck up that spacing, hahahhahah

Rent/mortage payments in the US is way more than 5000 a year. How do you propose saving 25k of a 30k salary in that situation
inb4 live with parents

Those averages are against the whole population which includes our worthless nigs and spics who make jack shit because they're 85 iq retards on welfare. Most whites and Asians are not settling for 30k or anything close to that

>what is the cost of living? for 400
try living in the us on 5k a year

Why would you look for dialogue that's anything more than pointless on Sup Forums?

Because America is built that way. People are paid the absolute minimum so CEOs can make more money for themselves.

You either get a job with actual value to it, or make due with your McJob.

The real issue is starting small businesses and trying to compete with any establishments. Everything in the us is conglomerated and monopolized to the point where most of the jobs are sub 40hr minimum wage garbage jobs for teenagers.

Corporations need to do their part for trickle down to work, which they’re not doing.

You are obviously an irecuck who knows nothing about the U.S. Anyone over the age of 62 can qualify for medicare which means that their medical expenses are paid by the government.

why not?
Iv had good conversations here before, most of them dont go that way, but only because people are in default Sup Forums mode to just meme and fight with each other.

I dont think the thread will be deleted if a mod sees people having a normal conversation like they would in person.

I think most people here have valid opinions when they don't get sidetracked by stupid shit like. not everyone, but a lot of people.

Either that or he didn't save enough for retirement. Consumerism, not capitalism is the problem for retirees. It seems you can't have one without the other though.

Is it acceptable that someone can do nothing, shit out a few kids, and leech off of their working taxpaying neighbour?
The reason someone earns 30k is because their labour is only worth that. If they were more specialised and skilled then they would be able to command a higher salary.

>Live jn prominent North East suburb
>Mortgage $1500
>3 cars
>household earnings over $110k
>didn't graduate college

People are lazy fucks and just want everything handed to them. At this point if you earn less than 30k and you are over 26 it is safe to say you are a loser with no tangible skills and deserve a shit life.

amermutt thread now

Somewhere in the region of 20% of over 65's still have to work in America.

But that's not an American problem only, we have that here, my parents are pushing 70 and are still working a 5 day week, it pisses me off no end.

These are 40 year +professionals who didn't make any terrible financial decisions (other than having and educating a large family) but things are just too expensive for them to not keep working. Inflation is a bitch, their pensions got wiped out in 2008. taxations was raised dramatically here in recent years, mounting medical costs as you age. mounting fuel costs...it all adds up.

There is no suitable safety net for them, Maybe there should be.

>Somewhere in the region of 20% of over 65's still have to work in America.
20% of over 65's have below 85 IQ

between genetics, drugs, and old age I would wager that is closer to 40%

Serbia got blacked yet?

so you lived off of 200 in a month? how??

Y.Did.U.Buy. The divide shill myths? They literally voted Trump in, and 34662% of youths think socialism/communism is trendy. If you don't understand by now the millenial generation are 10% fucked by boomers, 80% by their own stupidity, and 10% dead by 40' because of opiates....Gawd....

Learn what the fuck a "living wage" is.

It's not your right to a 2-bedroom apartment, money to go out to eat and socialize, and money leftover for other friviulous expenses and starbucks coffee every morning.

I shared a fucking 4-bedroom apartment in college like plenty of other people - what makes you (an uneducated fucktard only making $30k) feel as though you have a RIGHT to a PRIVATE 2-bedroom apartment? Go fuck yourself and slit your throat, your existence isn't worth anything on this planet if you feel you are that entitled.

$30k is MORE than enough to live with a shared apartment and rice and beans daily... but people want money for a golden shower and pizza every night.

You win. Get nukes and nuke us now. The only winner of this thread of losers.

america is a pozzed shithole
I wouldn't recommend even thinking about these retards

A lot of poor people are unable to retire confortably because they have no idea what a savings account is or they don't try to invest in anything or they continue to get into debt. This isn't aa income gap problem. This is a lack of finacial knowledge problem.

I make 15k, but I’m also a grad student and that’s where my stipend comes from. I could easily live off of 25k-30k while still saving a bit for retirement if I had to, cost of living is dirt cheap here.

>formal spacing
You don't start a new paragraph after each sentence.

Everyone with a brain agrees that it's wrong for someone to work full time at a real job and make one billionth of what someone else makes for doing basically nothing (walmart worker vs. walmart heirs).

but there is no consensus on the way to fix this. americans will not accept socialism or communism anytime soon, and tax credits that will actually make a difference won't pass.

the reality is that it's ok because nobody in america is hungry or homeless unless they or their parents are total fuckups. many poor people are the fattest people you see, waddling around with a cell phone permanently stuck to their head.

pic related is why america is doing fine in spite of huge income inequality. pic related is what passes for "protest" in america. or BLM blocking traffic because a cop shot a black guy, but not giving a damn about the hundreds of blacks murdered by other blacks every year. america is fine, all things considered.

>Should a person who has worked their entire adult life, get to 65 and then not have the money to live relatively comfortably in their old age.
No. Why should someone who settled for retail clerk pay be allowed to retire on my effort? I'm busting my ass, they're not. I'm fine I'd someone would rather be a janitor than work in HVAC, but why should I subsidize their choices when they get older?
I put off having kids so I could have the money and the financial stability to take care of them, so why should the person who got knocked up at 16 have the same chance at retirement as I do?
Just because someone works 40 hours does not mean they earned a retirement. I know guys working in bars who make enough to pay their rent and buy some toys, they work 50 hours a week, but they won't do something more financially stable because, as they tell me, the easy access to pussy is ridiculous. So these guys who worked 50 hours a week at a shit job so they had easier access to pussy, instead of getting a proper career have "earned" retirement simply because they woke up and went to a place that pays them?

>Why do half of all Americans make 30,000 dollars or less?
Because capitalism has created an entire tip-based economy where employers only pay half of minimum wage to their millions of full and part time employees.

Sounds to me like someone telling me they've seen Big Foot but fair enough, if you've experienced it.

Look at some of the responses in this thread though, and the way they express themselves. Whether they are serious or trolling, they do go some way to explaining how someone like Trump would get elected and then proceed to fuck over the white, uneducated men that supported him, along with his opponents. It's not that their opinions aren't valid, it's that they don't see the bigger picture of how they are being manipulated and made to feel happy for it. Like an abused spouse that stays and says 'thank you', 'I love you' and blames the people around them for not understanding the abuser.

"Fucking niggers, fucking Mexicans, fucking Russians, fucking Socialists, fucking lazy people, fucking elite, drain the swamp"

Why is someones IQ part of the discussion? If someone is not smart enough, they are undeserving of a decent life? Even if they do work hard, struggling with their impairment? Good, then there is no more need for any kind of debate - you want a cleansed society where your position is safeguarded. Go for it. Kill all the Untermenschen, get your frustrations out. Then kill yourself. There will always be weak groups of society, if you remove those below you, you will end up in the lowest part.

"$30k is MORE than enough to live with a shared apartment and rice and beans daily..."

What kind of a life quality is that? The sense of entitlement comes from the fact there is a small fraction of society collect capital off of the backs of the vast majority, for which there is no need. The rich can continue to be rich as fuck, with everyone being guaranteed a life more decent than a shared apartment and rice and beans.

What is your problem with that scenario? That you have worked hard and are entitled to more? You followed the American dream, you're a hero, you deserve, fuck the other rats in the race? You get more too! There's no need to be so paranoid of progress.

Because Jews.

>Live in the most technologically advanced and wealthy time ever
>get any full time job and make at least 25k annual just by clocking in and doing bare minimum to not get fired
>thrift stores and dollar stores and farmers markets everywhere
>bitch about muh oppression and inequality
>have internet, car, never go hungry, subsidized community colleges with scholarships tossing free money at you to get good grades
>You can make money just by getting good grades and tutoring or feeding yourself well and exercising and being a physical fitness trainer
>parks and ghetto areas are invested in by generous rich
>hate the rich
Shit happens is only a tiny fraction of what causes poverty. If it was just circumstance you wouldn't see low trust families, low IQ, low skill, low motivation crazies stealing shopping carts filling low income areas.

Basically a lot of lifelong Mittelstand type jobs died off in the „08 housing crash, because our economy is a house of cards on steroids, and were replaced with growth in the local branches of international corporations, paying low wages to expendable jobs.
>local company for oil offshore equipment goes under
>employed both skilled engineers and unskilled workers
>that same business parl is now replaced with an Amazon distribution center
This scenario has played out across the country, with the economy having a downturn, the good jobs (the American private businesses) going under because they couldn’t sustain the loss, and the economic vacuum being filled by multinational corporations, with American workers being lowered to compete against illegals and being treated as an expendable resource on a global scale.

IQ Plays a factor because it is the closest measurement to determining how useful you are in lfie. There are always exceptions, but the point is simply that it correlates. The main point being that in capitalism it's all about supply and demand. Do you expect amazing wages for something like... bagging groceries or driving a taxi? I would hope not, because that is something that LITERALLY ANYONE can do. Yet somehow you expect to be paid with a retirement pension or something like that is a career you can stick with and retire comfortably.

Look, a lot of people in Appalachia make very little money, but they don't apply for welfare charity, even though they easily qualify.
You don't need half of what you have, living is not dependent on things like television, or the best gaming computer, in fact, NOT having these things makes living MORE fulfilling.
You can create what you need to live, and money has simply become a tool of slavery...if you don't have enough of it, they fuck with you, if you have enough of it, they leave you alone...just like the taskmasters for a slave plantation. Do enough work for the "massa" and the taskmaster leaves you alone...don't do enough work for the "massa," and he beats you.

Money was supposed be nothing but an easy way to trade commodities between each other. It has been perverted, by evil men, into a whip of slavery. Taxes are what you must pay, or they will beat you. Interest (usury) are what you must pay, or they will beat you.

It could all be done much more fairly, and without the beatings, but that would not enable a pecking order of masters & slaves, would it?
slaves do the work, masters parasite off the slaves. Parasites do not wish to be purged.

Both taxes and usury would disappear, if the Treasury departments of all countries were the only banks, and loaned money at 0% interest (paying 0% to accounts, as well), and originated all money.
You would still have investment houses, but they would not interact with the Treasury, and the government would not insure any of those accounts...no bailouts, in a time of collapse, only the accounts at the Treasury banks would still exist (because the Treasury originates money, see?)
Under those circumstances, the last would be first (still have their savings), and the first would fall to the last (dead broke).

This is the only fair way to do it. If you wish to be a parasite, then take ALL the risk that goes with it.

>what kind of life is that
The life that someone gets with minimal effort and minimal dedication. Someone without trusted team with marketable skills. Problem is when you start to work hard and better yourself more gets taken away. Bad enough that there are taxes, education and healthcare in the US is a bloated scam.
We barely get to keep what we make in this country. Professionals are stuck paying debt for all this school that barely translates to their field of choice. Start to wonder why all the politicians store their money in Panama and Switzerland. HMMMM. People who grind to get Masters degrees have to pay debt for years. Right now trades like plumbing and trucking are where people get to keep what they make. However that risk is still worth it for many because a 4 year degree on average earns you double of a 2 year degree.

>which means that their medical expenses are paid by the government.
No. Medicare covers most of the expense, but retirees still buy insurance to cover the rest.

Good thing you added that bit about church music so we know you're a faggot

I don't expect anything, I am suggesting it is better for a society in the long run if everyone has a decent quality of life, and that it is more than possible for everyone to have a great quality of life - with the very rich still being very rich.

The simplicity with which you view the tax system is part of the problem. Yes, the more you earn the more you have to pay - until you earn enough to use tax avoidance schemes or have an accountant find loopholes for you. The very rich get richer and YOU end up having to pay for those with less than you. While it is off your work and your consumption they accumulate more and more wealth. I get your frustration and aggression, but say you are aiming it in the wrong direction.

IQ correlating with usefulness is also an incredibly simplistic idea. Your IQ may say something about your potential, but that potential can be hampered by anything from the circumstances in which you grow up, the economic situation, momentary bad luck or your own lethargy.

I'm not suggesting we regulate peoples lives but you cant let capitalism run rampant. It'll drain wealth, subjugate the people and dilute the land and the water.

Maybe peoples money would be worth more if we stopped inflating the currency? That's why those politicians store their money in other countries.

What exactly is an “American”? Is it the descendants of English and German colonists, or the tens of millions of third world peasants who showed up here less than twenty years ago?

My mom sang in the youth choir with Richard Mullins. Not close friends, but he remembered her name 10 years later after only a handful of interactions. Had his account give hime the US poverty level with the rest going to charity. Josh Garrels reminds me of him abit. Zion and Babylon by him is great. I like Richard's intro in Step by Step. Also, there's a great documentary about Richard. Countless songs of both I love, faggot.

At least you changed your flag accordingly
Cause that's what your society set up as a social contract between people, and how your laws reflect it. If you aren't satisfied with how solidarity and resource sharing is enacted, you can set up to change the rules, or move to another country

At least you didn't have to go through the effort.

1. Finish high school
2. Don’t knock anyone up
3. Get a full time job

Do those things and you won’t be poor in America. That simple. But everyone fucks up one or more of those things.

t. the epicenter of degeneracy in the world
Listen to church music all you want, you're still spear-heading the tranny and gender madness epidemic

Relax. I like bantz.

Average income of niggers and spics is under 15k I think. Also the value of a dollar is different in every region of the country. Also different regions have varying job opportunities. Also some people live cheaply and just do what they want but don’t make much money. There’s a dozen more nuances but basically you’re just a poor yurofag who doesn’t understand the concepts of freedom or hard work

>midwest city
that's the issue

none of that shit exists towards the coasts in cities that actually matter. all we can get are those side gigs at part time. i'm not going to force myself to live in a shithole, get stuck in a shithole, and die in the shithole

You sound like a pathetic faggot.

Currently working whenever the need arises.
Married, have kids.
Just living life the way I want and keeping the Jewish machine away from the children.
I appreciate the capitalist system that my country runs on but I don't have to play it's big game.
Just rotting away at a place you don't like around people you don't like and doing something that you don't like and is irrelevant.
Feeding the kids and enjoying life is all that matters.
Others can take the stress if they want, I don't owe society shitl

>yes you filth! live in squalor in the "richest country" while some corporation executive stashes away your yearly salary hourly in a foreign account!

>work your whole life
>shouldn’t you have enough to retire
That’s on them, communism is shit. “Work” does not equal work.

cheap food is high in calories. everyone is fat because the cheap food is unhealthy as shit. why spend $10-15 for fresh vegetables when your food stamps will get you much farther in soda and chips?

Still the only winner though.

Potatofag is right you dumb cunt. Insulting people isn't a good way to persuade someone. Even if you have the facts. They'll just ignore you which is what he is currently doing.

Because niggers and women.

Because Ireland's a tax haven lol. Spend a week or two living in a large city in France, Germany, or Belgium. You'll see how shitty it can actually be.

There, I made it fair, I didn't even mention eastern europe as a viable comparison to the states.

breddy much this

Did it for a year while in college in a decently sized but not major city. Had a shitty apartment, no car, no luxuries, but it was livable, I had pocket money for occasional fun, and I didn't need a roommate, only discipline and budgeting.
Desu. So many lefties I know whine that they can't support a family and have a two bedroom apartment on 40 hours a week minimum wage. No fucking shit.

Then move instead of whining you faggot.

>should a person get
>do people deserve
Kek

The Judaized minds among us will constantly avoid the topic of inflation eating away at quality of life. Many such cases in America. We are the goodest of the good goys.

And it was the beloved Ronald Reagan who created the need for the supplemental health insurance when it used to all be covered because we need to suck pharmaceutical cock for the free market.

>yesss goyyy just pursue your ""'career""" and don't have kids!

>30k a year
I fucking wish, for some people in this world that's a fortune.