If God created everything and made us after his image, how can you believe evil comes from Satan?

If God created everything and made us after his image, how can you believe evil comes from Satan?

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Lucifer literally means light bearer. Satan is the liberator of mankind from gods opression

Because Lucifer chose to be a little bitch.

>>Lucifer literally means light bearer. Satan is the liberator of mankind from gods opression

What was their falling out over anyway?

YHWH created us as slaves. The serpent liberated us from mindless slavery.

Jesus called god a mutt

Any self respecting man who believes in god would realize the injustice of his rule and try to slay him. Man should rule man

>God created everything

Literally need to read a few pages to see what he created
The rest is a result of the original sin

What if god is evil and humans use their free will not to be evil? Isn't that scenario as likely as god being good?

Satan fell from gods graces, Satan believed he was more powerful then god and that humans were a faulty race. God understood that the double edged sword of Free will gave humans the ability to be tempted. Knowing this he gave control over earth to Satan and told Satan that he can tempt as many people as we wanted to, but he had faith many people would stay true to god, thus giving them eternal life in heaven. The story is best personified by the story of “Job”. Also one of my favorite stories in the Bible. God doesn’t interfere with free will and gives Satan the ability to tempt you and lead you down a bad path, he hopes that you will stay true but being the loving God that he is he knows letting you make your own choices where you end up in the after life is important.

Luci was pissed the angels dont have free will, or something, and wanted to challenge god, which would supposedly undo reality because it would prove god wrong.
hes the good guy.

How are there people so unironically retarded that they think these grade 2 level criticisms of Christianity are actually valid. How can you want to argue against something so bad and yet not put in even 15 minutes of reading the theology to know what you're even arguing against.

They're luciferians what do you expect.

> “Made us slaves”
> Gave is free will

Don’t blame God for you giving into degenerate temptation by Lucifer.

That’s like saying Wow the government won’t let me kill people, I’m a slave. It’s just the acceptance of degenerate behavior that makes you feel like you’re a slave to God, you can do whatever you want, God isn’t punishing you in this life because of your degenerate acts, you have 70+ years to create a relationship with God, don’t blame him if you chose to follow Lucifer

my copy of sefer yetzirah clearly states there is no good without possibility of evil

Christians believe evil is ultimately illusory and lack of truth or reality.

academia.edu/2537529/Augustine_on_Evil

Muslims believe that God allows Satan to permit evil to test man for tremendous rewards in the after life.

>how can you believe evil comes from Satan?
Because it lied and sent mankind into darkness.

>implying free will can exist if there is an omnipotent creator
Okay, please explain how anything can happen except what the all-powerful creator of everything wanted to happen.

That fedora wearing retard is like Snopes telling you the Clinton foundation is A+ rating In Charity.

>god made everything perfect
>except Lucifer that some how revolted

>can't even into free will
sage

Adam's face, man.
>God said not to but the pussy game be strong

Lucifer had free will. Again, he chose to be a little bitch.

But user, Demiurge did create everything in this material universe for an explicit purpose of feeding on your suffering.
As this man said
He is to be opposed, and you do that by meditating and contacting Archon hierarchies outside of this world and work to become Christ, or Buddha, or reach Valhalla, or Heaven, or escape the Wheel, whatever you wanna call it. If you transcend suffering, the Demiurge and his worldly beta orbiters have no power over you.

Micro/Macro, By stepping back and resting mandkind? Your choices effect the planet, if it had been what God wanted Adam and Eve would have never Ate from the “tree of knowledge”.
But he gave them free will, they chose to damn the world, suffering on earth could have been avoided if the original people thought about the rest of us and the ripple effect they’d have on mankind.

If a person creates a test it’s not their fault if you don’t use the tools given to you to pass.

u haven't read the bible much have ya?
s
a
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Except they had no concept of child birth

What about Isaiah 45:7
My dude

Lucifer was one of the highest Angels, more powerful then most, emotions, love, music, empathy. He was said to have instruments coming out of his body, it’s no coinsodence music is degenerate and many in music use Satanic Rituals and symbols in their music, music also is a great way to control emotion. Lucifer was given more ability and free will then most angels, many angels followed Lucifer and rebeled against God, it wasn’t just him, I think it said around1/3 of all the angels in heaven were jealous of humans free will and Gods love for them and that their job was just to look out for Gods Chosen Creations which he mad in his image.

God created Satan too. This is not in conflict w the bible

cant, its a logical paradox
then again if you didnt get that the entire thing was bunk by page 2? where they start listing that the first humans lived to 900 years of age, thats a you problem.

You're gay

Because God made Satan, who was a fallen child of God.

God didn't create evil. Evil is the absence of God.

Well put

That means the universe is evil

>be le satan
>think that you know better than god who is omnipotent, omnipresent and every other omni
>rebel against the Law of the universe
>get fucked up

Its like you think that gravity is shit and you decide to break free from its opression

>Man should rule man
nothing and nobody should rule man.

>God didn't create evil.
there's this book, called the bible, saying god did (actually: does) create evil. now what?

Correct

Because before Satan childish tantrum there simply was no evil nor good, for there wasn't any need for either, everything was ''good'' as is. Then ''god'' made humans manifest and Satan who was the top of the class got told to respect them as if they were him, for we were him aka manifest.

Satan didn't like it one bit and threw a tantrum the likes we still feel the echo today, with god both angry and saddened by Satan sudden boisterous ego (basically seeing himself above god creation) so he slapped some sense into him and sent him to the universal corner of the room to think it through. Then god went on a smoke break because the little shit was getting on his nerve and he needed to relax a little, alas during that time Satan decided to throw an even bigger tantrum and is now bullying humans just because, well aware that the moment god come back in the room he is going to get a beating he'll remember across all future iteration.

“He saw that it was good”
Evil is good?

God Created Free will, which is like giving birth to children who grew up to be a murderer. Did you create a murderer or the child that was given free will?

Before Satan the Universe was Good, once Satan was given reign over earth until Gods return he changed it entirely

tfw all of divine history is a massive dick measuring contest between the creator and his own creation to prove if hes actually omnipotent or not.
spoiler alert, hes not

Pic related, “Yahweh” literally hates women
ye-huwawa is his real name

That Ass did get us all fucked user, there is a reason why Satan chose Eve to tempt Adam instead of the other way around, women by default have power and minipulation over men.

Thats not an explanation for anything. If there is a man in the sky who knows everything and is all-powerful and he created everything how can there be choices? How can it not be that things simply happen as he made them happen? Try not to go on a weird tangent this time.
>Micro/Macro, By stepping back and resting mandkind?
What the fuck is this supposed to mean? Most of this seems to be words but what are you saying with them?

Did you know ancient snakes had legs? Are snakes Satan? Or did someone fabricate Satan to make god look good

because he led a third of the angels to go and rape women

ALL HAIL THE MAN EMPEROR OF MANKIND!

>God Created Free will, which is like giving birth to children who grew up to be a murderer. Did you create a murderer or the child that was given free will?
I am not omniscient, but god is. so I am not responsible for those consequences of my actions that I could not foresee. but there are no consequences god cannot foresee, so he is responsible for all consequences, unless he choses to switch off his perfect foresight, in which case he is still responsible for doing such an irresponsible thing and letting things run amok.
all of this has nothing to do with Isaiah 45:7, which states in clear terms god creates evil.

yall niggas need lucifer

If I'm playing a videogame where I can make the characters perform actions on their own, I know all of the possible results, because they were programmed to only choose from a given set of variables. I may not know which action they'll choose in a particular instance, but ultimately because I know how they were programmed and I understand the branching paths or how they relate to each other, all of the results are known to me. I could take control at any given moment. And maybe sometimes I do. Other times, I can't be arsed and just watch the pretty show on the screen.

this assumes no undefined errors, like moving QPUs in mario (moving so fast you end up in an alternate dimension, tl:dr; youtube "A presses")

Never thought about it that way, good point.
When God hardened the Pharaoh's heart in the Old Testament he was basically taking control of one of his videogame's characters to change the plot in the direction he wanted.
Free will is a retarded concept, there's only will at the end, which in this case is God's will manifested through his creation.

>I may not know which action they'll choose in a particular instance
You're saying God isn't all-knowing? Isnt that blasphemy?

It is the Yin and the Yang.

2 sides of the same coin.

you could go quantum mechanics with the example examining all paths at once and technically bypass that limitation.
but then uncertainty principle brings into question if you can do that.

>Two trees are growing in paradise. One bears animals, the other bears people. Adam ate from the tree that bore animals and became an animal and brought forth animals, and so Adam’s children worship animals.

>The tree whose fruit Adam ate is the tree of knowledge. So his sins increased. If he had eaten fruit from the tree of life, the one bearing people, the gods would worship man and woman, for in the beginning god created man and woman.

>Now they create god. In the world humans make gods and worship their creation. It would be better if the gods worshiped them!

>no undefined errors
Why would there be errors?

Well yes and no, you still have free will, from your perspective. Or mine. From God's it's basically "awww sheeeit I can see where this is going". And then he either lets it happens or goes "not on my watch".

I'm saying God may choose not to pay attention to something if he pleases to do so, because he's God and he's the one that makes the rules, not you, me, or anyone else. There's few books, movies and games that I know in and out, but I can still force myself to forget certain aspects of them over time so that they're still entertaining to me.

>from your perspective
Yeah but not from God's perspective. He knows and have always known where shit's going. And if he created with that knowledge that means it was planned. And if it was planned it means it was never free in any objective sense.

>why would there be errors?
cant have perfect universe without some randomness

An omnipotent creator doesn't mean predestination is the default outcome.

this he got pride and thought he could be god

Newton's 3rd Law

>KJV
Laffin at your life tbqh family

SPBP

It's the omnipotence/omniscience combo that necessarily results in predestination and a deterministic universe.

nowhere in the Bible it is said that evil nor sin comes from Satan, you stupid fuck

>Bringing science into religion.
Nice try.

>not only do Christians fear Satan but some people actually worship him, a character canonically powerless against God, who's omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient

Monotheism is truly the Twilight of human spirituality, at least Polytheism has the internal logic that there is conflict in the world because there are multiple Gods with differing agendas.

Is it better to be a servant in heaven, or free in hell?

ITT
>what is a being that exists outside time
>Gnosticism
>what is the problem of evil
>what are translations
Jesus Christ this shit has been debated intensely for thousands of years you really think what you're saying doesnt have a rebuttal that youre incapable of arguing against. Read a fucking book, and bring it to /christian/ on double chan.

I ain't going to that Catholic shithole.

Evil doesn't come from Satan. But Satan actively tries to pull you down.

Isn't that literally what the Fall is about? We were pure, but then Satan tainted that. I'm not even religious, but you need better arguments--at least as far as any arguments will get through to religious people.

By definition, Goodness is an aspect of the nature of God. To ask whether God is evil makes no sense and is equivalent to asking what if Toast weren't made of Bread.

More like he was jealous that Man was Gods favorite and wanted to prove we were too flawed to be in his favor. When he couldn't he pitched a fit and got his ass kicked the fuck out of heaven for being a whiny little bitch.

If you're a baby and you're slowly approaching something that could hurt you, I can either allow for it to happen as a parent/guardian or let you learn your lesson. The results of both courses of action are known to me. More than likely, I've already made up my mind on which one to choose. Does that mean that the baby didn't have free will? We're kinda like that. Additionally, in this particular scenario, I can always decide to change my mind midway through. And I think that God can also. But hey, we could ponder this day and night, but would it change anything? From my perspective, it's free will. But I can not see or understand things from his perspective, unless he allows me to do so of course. Since I don't feel myself worthy of that, I can't really provide you with an answer that would satisfy you user, sorry. I'm only a Russian bot on a Mongolian basket weaving forum.

Not sure about that, but feel free to explain it further and I'll try to get my noggin joggin.

are you saying Adam should have become a cannibal?
and didn't God banish Adam and Eve to prevent just such a thing from happening?
>what if they should eat of the Tree of Life, and become like Us?
(paraphrasing, can't remember the exact wording)

So when Jews are commanded to charge usury from non Jews (by god) what is that?

ill try to boil it down for you
if the universe is a manifestation of all things observing itself to understand itself (god) said object must include everything, including errors, (and love AND hate, good bad, rape, consentual sex, etc) to include everything...

sounds dumb but thats basically it.

Pretty sure it’s an allegory

>Yahweh hates women
In the Demiurge concept he has to so stronk women can stand against him and make him submit to female power.

gnostics think that the spiritual universe is best represented by the yin-yang symbol, where God and Satan are co-equal in power.
gnostics think that Satan actually has a chance of winning against God.
Christians think God will win, and merely forestalls His victory for X reason(s).

i dunno, after Pizzagate and the Spirit Cooking scandals, i'm not so sure anymore that it was allegory.

>Does that mean that the baby didn't have free will?
Yes because God "programmed" that baby just like you program a videogame character.
The flaw in that analogy is that you leave the omnipotence/omniscience thing aside when you put yourself in the position of the baby's parent, who didn't actually program the baby but simply gave birth to it.
So the baby is just following his pre-programmed instincts, which were programmed by God, and therefore has no free will, just like his parent is following his instinct to protected their baby - or lack thereof in the case of a shitty parent, which would also be such according to God's plan.

Where did you read that? who said that?

Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.

As an ex-atheist, I always assumed that Christians were idiots that believed in a Sky daddy and my favourite "thinkers" like Christopher Hitchens, Dawkins, Bill Maher reaffirmed that belief. I feel bad for them because they have been led to believe in strawmen and that Christian theology is just a bunch of hot air with no substance or thought. An opiate of the masses, if you will.

I hope all of them see the light one day.

>It is not possible for anyone to see anything of the things that actually exist unless he becomes like them. This is not the way with man in the world: he sees the sun without being a sun; and he sees the heaven and the earth and all other things, but he is not these things. This is quite in keeping with the truth. But you saw something of that place, and you became those things. You saw the Spirit, you became spirit. You saw Christ, you became Christ. You saw the Father, you shall become Father. So in this place you see everything and do not see yourself, but in that place you do see yourself - and what you see you shall become.

Did God create the Jews? Or was it Satan?

In that place you see yourself? What place? The pleroma?

Cause rebelled
The Glorious Holy Imaculate Lady Theotokos took up Lucifers spot in heaven
Thats why she is seen standing on the moon in the "lady of Guadalupe" picture

I don't really know much about Judaism in detail. But if the sense is similar to the Jizhya; It's not really evil in the eye of the Jews, is it? Your question doesn't make make sense.

It's about the microcosmos (man) becoming the macrocosmos (the universe, God) by realizing God with himself. In other words, the comprehension of truths changes you. A vessel takes in a little light, then a little more light, until it is no longer a vessel but the light itself.

>adam made from clay
>2 trees of good and evil
Yeah take your Levant crap and shove it where god split you

Catholics and their female worship, man.

At first it seems as if she is standing on the moon conquering it. But I think rather the moon is lifting her up.

What are they even protesting about?

It's a political fashion show about women being free to express themselves in every sense of the word.