/UBI/ Basic income

Most of the jobs today are bullshit.

Automation can do the productive ones(like 15% of the total) and the 'UN-automatable' could be shared.

Why not?

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Those who do not work, must not eat.

They've been arguing that machines will take our jobs since the beginning of the industrial revolution. What actually always happens is that the economy changes and everyone benefits.

im ready for universal income and robots delivering everything to my doorstep, working is for the unevolved

Times change.

Most of the today's work is bullshit admistration, regulation, gestion, etc.

Some automation and voila

I'm not necessarily against UBI but think it might be a problem to implement

Should have got into robotics

Then who will pay for the shit being produced if everyone has no money? The market will change drastically to accommodate for this situation; illogical Marxist bullshit is not the answer

the biggest problem is mentality, but that's has always been the problem.

ok, for now the solution is produce produce and produce, but who will buy that shit? Nowadays, with obsolescence and other tricks like importing poors and giving them money that others would save or invest...

But it doesn't do the trick any more.

Sitting around doing nothing all the time would be a wretched life, a life not worth living.

Cut to the chase and admit you are suicidal.

Would you do that? Do nothing I mean..

I couldn't tolerate it, personally.

It sounds like sitting in a prison cell.

Suck a fag dick you jewisher niggerfaggot.

Have fun sucking master's dick you little cottonpicker.

so you are a part of the problem. You would rather work a slave away than even think about doing something meaningful with your life. What a fucking loser.

>Triggered

You're the one who wants to sit around all day like lazy niggers are famous for.

youtube.com/watch?v=sls5H4xVHys

>gibzmedatz

I work to build an inheritance for my children, the same as my father and grandfather and ancestors before them have done.

I have plenty of time to do as I please afterwards.

But you want to sit around like a lazy welfare nigger and get triggered at the prospect of having to work or being denied food.

Won't work. Too many shit people will become useless leaches over night. People absolutely have to work, or it's over.

>And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
>When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
>As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
>The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

if your father and grandfather had done that then you wouldn't have to. face it, they failed you, they are losers. You didnt build that.

go to the woods
mother earth give us everything we need for free
escape from the system

Years ago the aristocratic classes of society toiled away at autistic hobbies like marine biology and botany if only to stave off the boredom that comes from not having to work and keep from breaking they're minds

Now what do YOU have in mind to prevent the mass psychotic breaks?

>what is making art

I'm more likely to psychotically break down at my job than I am pursuiting creative endeavours. Only reason artists have mental health problems is because they're living on the edge financially.

My job doesn't actually produce anything worthwhile and most of it's associated tasks could be performed by a robot. Yet I'm able to enjoy a relatively comfortable existence in my time away from work. I can't support UBI, though, because it's giving government the reins and the purse strings over your life.

You'll be to busy with the mindless consumption of unfulfilling shit that the mega corporations will be shoving down your throats to make "art"

Ubi is slavery

It something we need universal basic access. Money is slavery

so you would rather people slave away at terrible jobs. Fuck you you piece of trash. You and everyone like you are scum.

Your a slave to your biological needs, the point is that jobs are like masterbation, a substitute for the activities of hunting and gathering that have driven us for centuries, the wonderful thing is that these jobs vary in they're actions and what they require of you and you are thus free to pursue the ones that at least bring you a sense of fulfillment

>robitics
>entry level jobs
fampai...

We have become slaves of the machine.

I've found most people arguing against UBI to be taking a moral position against an endpoint that in theory they should have no trouble agreeing with: Abundant resources are better than scarce ones, technology should make our lives easier, and someone having access to resources they need to live without being forced into involuntary labor is a good thing.

dos cervesas por favor
also, how the fuck am I going to be in charge with UBI ?

overpopulation and globalizations are the main problems now

you solve those, life becomes great again (but not necessarily easier)

>Most of the jobs today are bullshit.

That's not true. There are enough jobs that are quite fun if have talent.

Someone has to provide the UBI and after giving it a few generations so people don't know how to live without it, they can cut it off.

There are many careers that are not unskilled menial bullshit you sheltered fuck.

Anyway, a society where the people who do the work that keeps our technological society running, including dangerous and isolated jobs, have their money taken away to support a bunch of useless assholes sit around eating and breeding is not going to last very long.

There would have to be mandatory sterilization if you want everyone else to pay for you. Otherwise there is an exponential problem that ends with violent uprisings or genocide.

>I can't imagine doing anything with my life besides slaving for some profiteer.

This guy...

UBI is a band aid for a gunshot wound. If we have the resources and knowledge to sustain a dignified life for our people without the need for extensive labour, what is the purpose of having a capitalist economic system in the first place.

UBI is just pocket money for the masses to prop up the system and keep the economic cycle alive. It's also a trap - all it would take is one right wing government cutting it, or even just letting it stagnate against inflation, and everybody's back to feudal serfdom. It's not an answer. If the system doesn't befit the best interests of the people, then the system has to change. It doesn't need to be propped up by throwing little stipends at the masses to keep consumer demand up.

You are free to stop working right now. In fact you're literally free to do anything that's not forbidden by the laws of physics: that's as free as freedom gets.

However everyone else is also free not to put up with any of your bullshit.

You're just being materialist.

New jobs will appear. Screencap this.

It should be called something like Basic Obligations. B.O. for short.

So theres a negative connotation right off the bat. "haha, he does nothing all day but gather up B.O. lolol", a conversation like that would go. UBI is mathematically necessary for the economy to improve. Without it, there will be a cultural revolution/ soviet type famine in the U.S.

kys domincan nigger

you can't say nigger, and you cant say kis
express yourself differently !!!!

dos cervesas por favor

This argument would apply if we all had free access to the commons.

Absent that, threat of starvation and the elements becomes an implicit form of duress.

fpbp
Get over yourself, and that faggy picture too. You think food, resources, safety, etc. just fall into our lap like manna from heaven? Humans have ALWAYS needed to work to survive, from 20,000 BC to 2000 BC to 20 AD to 2000 AD, and that will never change. Now get a job, spoiled loser.

Can you tell Poison I said hi?

commons exist, who runs them ?
I have no clue

citing a dago who never lived outside Italy or stepped foot in America

ABOLISH INCOME TAX INSTEAD

They were also better bred as in more intelligent than average. Some 80-IQ dumfuck will just trash everything in sight for the lulz.

Whatever UBI people get will become as worthless an income as zero is today - then, (((people))) will agitate time and again for it to be raised over and again, with an ever-higher burden on people who actually produce something that the population needs/wants.

...and this will not be in exchange for any existing welfare benefit. The Left never cedes anything; they just take more and more.

This is like transgendered people chasing their tail - they think this is what they want and that will make them happy, but it just makes them more miserable, and everyone is to blame for their misery but themselves.

They also scalped and enslaved each other. Also had no running water or electricity in a land where it snows for months on end. Africa-tier settlements built.

That user was arguing from an ancap view, that you can just leave a job at any time and society has no obligation towards your continued existence.

I pointed out that there exists no commons from which to draw from. You can't go out and build a house somewhere because the government zones land specifically for residential and business uses. You can't go out and farm your own food because the government zones land specifically for agriculture.

If you have freedom but no access to the material components of your survival, then you are "free" to go freeze on the sidewalk.

I read that in a deep, feminine voice

Case in point: the minimum wage. Whatever it is raised to becomes more and more incapable of purchasing subsistence-level life - so (((they))) agitate for raising it, and the cycle repeats, over and over.

In NJ, toll booth collectors can make $90K, with unbelievable benefits and pension.

The fact that proponents of this BS refuse to accept is that not every job can or should be one that can support a family.

"I need to support my family," they cry.

Then sort your ass out and work towards a better job before you marry and pop out kids, you dumbass.

Money in this sense would be something like a luxury item.
as in money allows you to buy fancier houses,clothes,food.
Everyone else gets soylent gmo shit that gives them cancer.

Better idea; how about a cultural shift towards other kinds of work? Why not make art something other than a tax-deductible piggy bank for billionaires? Why not improve yourself and learn new things and innovate as an individual? Why not create amazing things that iphones can't replace?

Why not a second renaissance?

This

This is just silly if you actually know where the vast majority of moneys goes. Hint: a certain spooky subset of the government are billionaires from tax moneys.

Automation is inevitable. Many will not be able to work.

Oke, touchè. But in true leftist tradition you're being intellectually dishonest: would you rather the government abolishes all and every tax and regulation on subsistence farming so you could go and live off your own labor, or would you rather have UBI (or similar)?


Very well put sir.

>most of the jobs
>15%

Gas the poor. Trade war now. 14$$

>Implying the poor don't want to die already
I would accept a bullet between the eyes with open arms at this point.

I'm not a leftist. UBI is actually more right wing than the current welfare system because it holds individuals responsible for how they use the money instead of demanding what food they eat and where they live. If someone fucks up on UBI, you truly can say that they deserved it.

I prefer UBI because turning everyone into their own mini supply chain doesn't fix the fundamental problem of displacement of human labor by automation.

>I prefer UBI because turning everyone into their own mini supply chain doesn't fix the fundamental problem of displacement of human labor by automation.
>i prefer someone pay me by virtue of existing rather than being granted the absolute freedom to provide for myself
No surprise there.

But anyway that's not what's being discussed here: OP's timeless complaint of "I don't want to get up and get to work today", with a hint of Marxism thrown in the mix ("for the profit of another", "my measly pay") for which the equally timeless "he who does not work does not eat" is the perfect counterargument.

because the productive members of society have no obligation to provide for the unproductive members.
evolution works because the price for failure is death

It's meant to get around the welfare trap that many find themselves stuck in and get used to. That is, with the current system, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you make around the same money and declare it.
People on welfare will finally be able to legally find other ways to make money, for example, starting their own business, or commit fully to their art.
It's also meant to streamline government assistance, where the already wealthy are abusing systems for extra cash (at least here in Canada).
I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation came hand-in-hand with a forced cashless model.

It will be easier to have a good old fashioned communist purge. I mean that is what the commies do when there are too many mouths to feed. Start with the loud mouths (protesting useful idiots), then the fags and disabled, then the poor. Happens time and time again when these commies get their way.

just because a job is not pleasurable or fulfilling does not mean it is unnecessary.
commies and UBI fags are the same type of moron who believes that everyone should be able to become rockstars and movie actors.
the world doesnt fucking work that way, never has, never will.
machines are just tools and the fact that you don't understand that means you are the kind of useless idiot who doesn't know how to use any tool.
improve yourself, learn a skill.
adapt or die moron, history will not wait for you.

Makes sense that UBI will become widespread, at least in civilized nations like the EU, Japan, Korea, etc.

why are so many bongs faggot leftists? are you from londonistan by chance?

You don't have to sit around and do nothing. You could go do what you want to do. Sounds like you're a vapid faggot who requires Shekelstein to saddle you with a menial task to give your life meaning while you line his pockets.

>eryone into their own mini supply chain doesn't fix the fundamental problem of displacement of human labor by automation.
>>i prefer someone pay me by virtue of existing rather than being granted the absolute freedom to provide for myself
>No surprise there.
>But anyway that's not what's being discussed here: OP's timeless complaint of "I don't want to get up and get to work today", with a hint of Marxism thrown in the mix ("for the profit of another", "my measly pay") for which the equally timeless "he who does not work does not eat" is the perfect counterargument.


That all could be true in a perfect world, not in this one.

You can trick a peasant with some of that and the 'afterlife' but not me.

An iphone is made possible by a collective work of humanity for all the history not by steve jobs.

>I spent years arguing against ubi
I'm so ashamed

You are naive if you think AI is the same as a steam engine or conveyor belt.

>accept a shitty contract
>get upset at shitty contract

don't sign it then, retard

Everyone here agrees that if humanity survives another 100 years then UBI will be implemented globally. I don't think civilisation will last that long and it would be a huge mistake to pretend that we are ready for widespread UBI today

I make 12.25/hr from my bed, taking PC repair calls. mostly helping the elderly and clueless but basically get nothing but a minor headeache at the end of every day in exchange for all the basic necessities of life and some shiny electronics when I save up for a few months. I study every day because I want more out of life and I have the courage to admit that its my own goddam responsibility to make my life better and not other people paying higher taxes. You get rid of all the nonwhites and Ill consider it, it might not even be necessary if all the aid we give shitskins went toward our own people. UBI is overkill to the problem of just having too many shitty people on this planet taking up money from the social safety net that already exists.

Art doesn't work if everyone does it. It requires many people to consume the art of a handful of people.

But are you saying you would be happy just producing 'art' for yourself for the rest of your life? (You wouldn't).

>accept shitty contract
>starve
great options user

In several real world experiments it has not created an abundance of "artists". If anything most people tend to take more risks (further education or entrepreneurial risks)

those aren't the only options retard

What happens if you don't accept the shitty contract then clevertard?

you go looking for a good contract or start your own business

We live in a free society, as long as we do what we are told to.

>finding a good contract in 2018
>starting a business with less than 50k
whatever you say user

Fuck you, maybe I wanna sit on my ass all day playing vidya instead of wageslaving for a kike

We have no means of judging what is "productive" to society beyond economics.

I would consider someone writing Wikipedia articles all day about science to be productive. I would consider a royalty-free music artist to be productive. I would consider a Humane Society volunteer to be productive.

None of these people make money for what they do, and under your system they would all be worthless.

>not getting a loan
>not networking with people and starting a business together
what it comes down to is that you're incompetent and still feel entitled to other people's wealth
fuck off, no one owes you shit, faggot
life is tough, get used to it or die like the useless genetic dead end you are

If Sup Forums has upvote feature and you will get that many:

>all the people that would have been factory workers and delivery drivers should just network and become small business owners
>encouraging ursury
Are you sure you're being sensible here

Only reason? Someone should have told Kurt Cobain, and dozens of others.
The talented and hard working self sufficient vs. the listless. Guess who wants ubi? Someone, somewhere, will have to work to feed you. I know you do not care. When they opt not to feed you, there will be tears, and name calling.

The only way it should happen is if we repeal the entire welfare state and cut the massive bureaucracy associated with it

then all politicians should starve

Isn't that the whole point of ubi?

No, they'll just play videogames and get autistically good at them

You are naive if you think they aren't