Free Will and God

Do humans have free will? My opinion: We have the ability to choose, but because God knows what choice we will make, it renders our free will mute. Basically, if our choice is already determined, then it isn’t made freely.

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We have free will in the sense that we are at liberty to make our own decisions, but we do not have free will in the sense that we can choose to do spiritual good.

Our wills are totally corrupted by sin such that every inclination we have is against God.

catholic server /bkXHBgq

This is assuming God is even paying attention to us all the time and doesn't have much better things to be doing.
I mean I can see everything in my room right now but do I really care what the couch pillow is doing? Nope.
And maybe I could SEE everything that would be and is and was. And maybe I'm still amused by the choices made down there on earth. Because most of the time I'm doing other things. Important things.

This is assuming that God has better things to do.

Everyone is Pure Consciousness, which is INFINITE AND ETERNAL, experiencing life in a temporary human form. Pure Consciousness has free will, but when it assumes temporary human forms (which are us), it experiences predetermined lives. Everything you experience in your life (right down to the most trivial details) was chosen by your true self, Pure Consciousness. Even when some guy on the street punches you in the face. You chose that for whatever reason. So at the physical level of 'reality', there is no free will. But at the most fundamental level of 'reality', there is free will. So in other words, we do not have free will in a relative sense, but we DO have free will in the absolute sense.

Time is an illusion, just like space, solidity and EVERYTHING ELSE BESIDES PURE CONSCIOUSNESS. When you watch a DVD movie, the entire movie is on that disc and the part of the movie you watch depends on what you do with your remote. What we call 'reality' is kind of like that in the sense that the 'past', the 'present' and the 'future' are ALL happening at the same time and the part of it you experience (i.e. the 'past', the 'present' and the 'future') and the speed you experience it at (i.e. slow-motion and fast-forward) depends on how your mind (i.e. the remote) decodes it. You can also rewind the movie (i.e. go into the 'past') and go into the 'future' by fast-forwarding the movie. The sub-conscious part of your mind actually processes time flowing both 'forward' AND 'backward' SIMULTANEOUSLY, but the conscious part of your mind only processes time flowing 'forward'.

"You didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it."

If a child choses by free will to touch fire, the childs parents would force prohibit the child by free will. Does the will of the parents, which prohibit the childs action, imply that the child has no free will at all?

Obviosuly not, both can have free will, but the action, which will actualy be made, is dependant on the hierarchy of authoraty, so to speak.

Same applies to God and Humans. If we decide to do A, we might be forced to do B, because God has a plan for us, to prevent something worse to happen etc.
You have a free will and you are able to make decisions, but you are not always allowed to do certain things.

>Do humans have free will?
In a calm environment with little stimulation, like a library, humans have a ton of free will. The more stimulation around us, the less free will we have.

If God determines which acts we are allowed to commit, then we don’t have free will. You can’t choose (as in following through on the decision to act) to do an act that you never commit.

Foreknowledge of our decision doesn't negate the fact that we still make it

Free will is a mere tool to make mental models about how to approach the future in the best possible way. Free within parameters set by one's nature and nurture. Absolute free will probably doesn't exist.

I like this thought. I've always thought of life like a choose your own adventure. In our story there are many choices to be made but God is the author so knows which ones exist. It's the only way I can wrap my head around the idea of fate and free will coexisting.

It negates any meaning in the decision.

If god is the author, how can we write our own story?

The spirit is in this thread

could god microwave a burrito so hot not even he could eat it?

it's not a stupid question if you're the burrito

>If God determines which acts we are allowed to commit, then we don’t have free will.
But by that logic, you should also say, that children have no free will, because their parents determine, which action the kids are allowed to make. Do we agree that this is nonsense?

I think we should differenciate between free will and the actions we can possibly make. Because you can have free will to do whatever you want, but yet you are restricted in your oportunities.
If I want to fly, I wouldn't be able to, because I have no wings. Would this make me a will-less creature, just because I can't fly at this very moment?

You buy a chocolate and a strawberry ice cream, and telll your child to pick each one he wants. You know your child very well, and you know he will pick the chocolate one. Does it mean he have no choice, even tough you gave the oportunity to him?

If electricity did not choose the path of least resistance, we would not say it is free, we would say it is not working as intended.

Is free will stupid?

I disagree all situations have multiple choices but the choices presented, although seemingly infinite are actually finite just on a scale that we don't think in often enough to truly recognize. So if thwre is a creator and the creator has placed us within this realm and given freewill then the idea of fate being a by product of free will can exist and our choices do matter. The more I thinm about it the more it makes sense that this realm is nothing more than a simulation in choice. Now why it is designed this way and has us participating within is entirely different monster to identify.

We dont is the thing. It would seem to us as though we do but if life is like a book or a game for that matter there are certain boundries that have been written within this realm. We are given enough choice to decide on our own which path we will choose but the paths are finite but the we choose to reach the end is not written in stone from the beginning. It just seems infinite because there are so many choices and paths to take. In a way maybe we are god who forgor he was god and we have placed ourself inside this realm to experience the sensation of choice versus omnipotence which is generally considered the place in which god resides.

There is a massive difference between a parent telling a child what to do/not do and an omnipotent being knowing every single minute detail of your life since before the dawn of time. Free will and omnipotence cannot coexist.

the algorithms think they're hot shit but they're not even burritos. they should recognize this and stop analog hacking us we're too hot

Yep. Argued this before.
If god created our thought processes (and knew that they would cause us to choose the wrong answer when he tested us) then we don't really have free will. We'd just be doing what god planned.
I mean, even if god just created the way we think then we don't have free will, just interconnected neurons firing in certain patterns.

There's no scientific way to have free will, so the only option left for the theists is to MAGIC it into existence by saying that their flying sky daddy can do anything, so he can create something impossible. If you magic anything to work for you then I'll just do the same.

God is the universal logos, which is order. We can choose to align ourselves with the logos or we can deny it and be dragged along in chaos.

GOD = GERMAN WORD = Godin

That demon there is a fucking rabbi from the middle east named Jesus and YHWH

Everything has already happened, so we don't have free will. The fourth dimension is duration, and since we perceive things at a fourth dimensional level, we can't perceive the entirety of duration all at once, so our lives look like individual moments instead a fluid event. Whether there's a God or not is irrelevant.

See this, Abdul.

>God is the universal logos, which is order. We can choose to align ourselves with the logos or we can deny it and be dragged along in chaos.
Logos is from the Stoics and Heraclitus. Jews stole this word and made it into a fucking Commie rabbi named Jesus.

You have to be 18+ to post here here

>The fourth dimension is duration
prove it, hippie

entropy, quantum mechanics

read about them, then post intelligently

>quantum mechanics
Prove it, hippie

Everything is reducible to the complex,yet entirely predictable, actions and reactions of chemicals, therefore free will cannot exist

It means the “choice” wasn’t meaningful. If I offer you a ham sandwich and a turd sandwich, is it meaningful for you to choose food over feces?

it's all just waves till a hot burrito crunches the data into particles desu

I know damn well what the logos is. Have you ever studied Stoicism?

>There's no scientific way to have free will
The problem has nothing to do with science. You have defined free will so that it is a logically incoherent idea... and thus yo find that it doesn't exist.
Your idea of free will can't exist in any universe.

>Everything is reducible to the complex,yet entirely predictable, actions and reactions of chemicals, therefore free will cannot exist
That's backwards thinking though. The Jew worshiper is insane but your agrument looks at the effect and says the cause was always there... so then there is no effect only the illusion of effect and we all live in a giant jellow mold of stillness and no motion. Chaos exists because space exists. Praise KEK

>Free will and omnipotence cannot coexist.

Yes they can, there's only one person on Sup Forums and he possesses BOTH free will AND omnipotence. Free will and omnipotence co-exist when only one person exists.

>tfw Sup Forums is LITERALLY one person

>I know damn well what the logos is. Have you ever studied Stoicism?
IT"S NOT A FUCKING JEW!

This doesn’t add anything to this discussion. Also,

>QM, that’s not even understood by scientists, is determinative in metaphorical free will.

We’re approaching levels of faggotry that shouldn’t be possible.

If Sup Forums was one person and that person was you, then you would hang yourself for posting stupid anime lolis.

>this meme
The Lord does have some control over the direction people go, O.P., also the individual does as well. The latter is why good works please the Lord.

>it renders our free will mute
your free will speaks more loudly than you know

>The Lord
Lord of Israel can suck my dick.

Hell is for ever!

>If Sup Forums was one person and that person was you

Sup Forums is one person and that person is everyone (including you)

This is not what the Bible says at all. God elected individuals before creation. It’s not possible to choose to turn to God.

L.O.L. Kill yourself.

Forgot my loli. Here it is.

Nice biblical argument you have there, Jamal.

That's my point. If you want to "supernatural" something into existence, not having to provide any actual evidence for it, then I'll just do the same thing. My point is that free will would only exist in the natural world, but because it's not possible in the natural world then it isn't possible at all.

In a way yes, in a way no, in a way it doesn't matter, in a way yes and it doesn't matter, in a way no and it doesn't matter, in a way yes and no and it doesn't matter.

Why? It still has meaning for you

>Even atheists have to admit that there is pure
wisdom and great poetry in the New Testament.

God joined American Atheists in 1993.
On the day David Koresh was burned.
Devil is in detail, gave Devil his dues.
So yea, God is an Atheist, it's true.

Wisdom, no poetry.

>Hell is for ever!
Hell is a Norse Goddess!

It has no meaning because I can’t choose otherwise, my decision is already made.

>wisdom and great poetry in the New Testament.

correction, green

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you're confusing free will determined by us humans and spiritual free will.

we have absolute free will but (how else would we evolve as individuals and species) but we also will face the consequences of our choices in life once we are not on earth anymore.

The neat thing is, contrary what regular religions believe, we get to do this earth thing over and over again. and as we progress through that cycle we move up the ladder each round and consequently make different and better life choices which push us to the next level.

And God isn't there to judge us, we are the ones judging ourselves once up There and realizing what went wrong/good. which is the preparation for the next round.

Pretty neat system. everyone his/her own pace and curve, everyone gets there in the end. nobody left behind.
can take a while though.

You have to be 18 to post here

Worship the FSM or die, heretic.

as if anyone under 18 could post such a thing. unless its pasta of course.

>My opinion: We have the ability to choose, but because God knows what choice we will make, it renders our free will mute.

Sure. But God is us since we're created in God's image and God created nature hence God is indifferent. We cannot choose to suddenly fly or breath water.
More closely, most people cannot choose to become millionaires. You have to earn that most of the time.

You said nothing fucking interesting.

I remember being 12

that's just because you can't comprehend. Not my fault.

This > you self righteous idiot.

>Do humans have free will?
No, not after the fall.
If you want to disprove me, stop sinning. But you can't. Not only is your inclination to sin, but your very perception of right and wrong is clouded.

t. brainlet

More like you have free will & God can fabricate an infinite amount of correct timelines that will correctly interact with your free will continuously with every other persons free will & their choices.

i apologize, i realize my post was too positive for this place, also i didn't show hatred for the jews, blacks, millennial and /or others.
sorry guise.

>making up false doctrine from thin air
>cribbing false doctrine from Rick and Morty
ISHYGDDT

God has planned for practically everybody before they were born a nasty surprise when they died.

What are you going on about, you enormous faggot?

having difficulties reading americano?

What if I’m agnostic

choose or you burn in hell for eternity :-)

stop thinking in four dimensions only

he has elected everyone, God doesnt add names to the book of life, he erase what is already there

Doctor D. Fellatem, you're not a doctor of history.

I’d rather not. :/
Don’t see a reason to

Reminder that LARPagans are homosexual, promote feminism, and hate Christ just like jews. LARPagans are jewish slaves. The goodest goyim.

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No. We have will. Will just means that we do things on purpose sometimes. But free-will would imply freedom from external influences. We don't have that. Our wills are subject to innumerable external influences. They are not "free" in any meaningful sense.

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youtube.com/watch?v=mKjj_JgKDeI

youtube.com/watch?v=typ2pl2L47k

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for god everything is possible jesus god in human form could microwave a burrito so hot that he cant eat it

infogalactic.com/info/History_of_the_Jews_in_Spain#Moorish_Conquest
>Both Muslim and Catholic sources tell us that Jews provided valuable aid to the invaders. Once captured, the defense of Córdoba was left in the hands of Jews, and Granada, Málaga, Seville, and Toledo were left to a mixed army of Jews and Moors. The Chronicle of Lucas de Tuy records that "when the Catholics left Toledo on Sunday before Easter to go to the Church of the Holy Laodicea to listen to the divine sermon, the Jews acted treacherously and informed the Saracens. Then they closed the gates of the city before the Catholics and opened them for the Moors."

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