Why did Europe become relevant only after Christianity?

Why did Europe become relevant only after Christianity?
>inb4 greeks and romans
Not an argument when it is always nordics who claim how better they are and how Christianity "destroyed" whatever they had

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombards
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacharsis
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

God bless the Nordics, but only Denmark contributed to western Civilization. The rest of them were dragged kicking and screaming out of the pirate age.

because they were decentralized tribesmen

it wasn't until maybe Charlemagne when they start getting their shit together. It wasn't really until the Normans show up, when it start to really take off

>relevant only after Christianity
>Birthplace of Mycenae, Greece, Rome
>developed philosophy, geometry, arithmetic, drama, written history
>empires that spanned from Europe to Asia to Africa
>Jesus was literally made famous due to a torture device conceived by Europeans

Step your game up. Evropa's embers are still pagan.

>christianity completely replaced paganism
Christianity in Italy mixed perfectly with paganism, ever heard of Sainthood? of Marie? Literal minor gods.

Europe did not become more relevant than the other powers until after the renaissance. The renaissance was simply a rediscovering of the knowledge the Romans and Greeks had which in turn had been passed to the Greeks from the Egyptians.

>american education

Because Christianity gave the core of European nations, purpose and meaning to their actions. Under Christianity, everything you do, from being a king to a peasant has a purpose dear to God, and therefore your life is not meaningless.

nordics were fairly isolationist, they didn't really seek to expand. they would just raid now and then to get some supplies and assert their borders
they didnt contribute much to greater society, but thats because they didn't want to, not because they couldn't
expansionism leads to diversity. we all see how that turned out.

>pasta niggers dont even realize the european renaissance started hundreds of years before the italian renaissance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance

So what exactly made europe so much better and more relevant before that?

I doubt any Nordic society even had the word isolationist has part of their vocabulary.
The Nordics didn't expand forward because they were not capable of it. The Viking warriors primarily focused on raiding defenseless monasteries and isolated fishing villages. When they had to face organized armies, they mostly lost. The Vikings that become powerful were the ones that settled in Christian Europe and become Christians, like the Normans.

>a barbarian analphabet franco-german mongrel decides to take some monks and learned men from italy because of an inferiority complex
>lel renaissance
stay mutt

>Vastness of indo-European culture.
>vastness of Celtic culture.
>Selucid Empire.
>The vastness of Germanic culture.
>The Roman empire

>Not an argument when it is always nordics who claim how better they are and how Christianity "destroyed" whatever they had

There were Nordic types among the Romans and Greeks.
Hostility to Christianity is not a "nordic" thing, it's a pretty common thing in general. Christianity is a hostile religion in the way Judaism and Islam are hostile.
Why some may "scoff" a these "little tribal customs and legends" these things are of immense importance to many people.
The ancient pagan tribes of the North in terms of laws attitudes and customs are far closer to modern post-Christian Europeans than many realise.

>deus vult flag
>literal symbol of germanic, french, british etc. knights dying in the middle of the desert because of "lol jerusalem"
>it was all an italian city states' ruse to defend their trades
lel

Christianity is hostile, like Islam and Judaism.

Do you realize how retarded you sound.

The Romans, the great pagans that they were, killed and enslaved millions of pagan Europeans.

>The Nordics didn't expand forward because they were not capable of it.

Look at a map of the indo-European migrations, the extent of celtic culture, the extent of the sarmatian and scythian culture and the expansions of Germanics out of Scandinavia into the rest of Europe.
Remember that it was the expanding and invading Suebians that Julius Caesar fought in Gaul. These "unexpansive" Nordic types were a consistent and persistent thing since very ancient times.
The consistent themes appear to be a formidable warrior culture, good use of technology, high mobility and martial prowess (height, ferocity, explosiveness).

The "backwards primitive Northerners" thing is a total myth.

3 posts and not a single argument. I guess you muslim rape babies should have spent more time studying Martianus Capella. Oh wait that was in the 12th century Renaissance before so I'm sure you have no clue what I'm talking about.

How does Roman violence contradict my statement on Christianity?
It's a hostile religion particularly towards non-Abrahamics.

Notice the year it kicks off 1600 ~ie Battle Of Vienna and when the Ottoman Empire in spirit collapsed.

Fuck you christcucks. WOTAN LEAD THE WAY

>muslim rape babies
nice meme, hermano.
also
>studying Martianus Capella
>literally OBLITERATED by esthetically better sounding and writing vulgar florence and modern italian, all with de vulgari eloquentia
>mutt trying to start a discussion about the language question in italy
>it gargles jewish cum
like i said, stay mutt.

Romans and Greeks
>not an argument
Fuck off
If you're just talking about Northern Europe, it was unfarmable until the invention of the heavy plow in the early Middle Ages. No large-scale agriculture = no advanced civilization.

this.
incredible, a mutt that makes sense.
a literal albino rhinoceros

>Rome
>Alexander's empire Greeks conquering the middle-east
>Gauls and Scythians invading all the way to Anatolia

Yeah, but Europe "only become" relevant after Christianity... Sure. Because there was anything relevant elsewhere? A bunch of middle easterners? The reason it "became relevant" after the RENAISSANCE was because of colonization of other continents.

Sage for shit thread.

>thinking Martianus Capella had anything at all to do with language
Whew. You at least tried though.

Viking Age Scandinavia had 250k people, yet it colonized Frankia which had 14 million, at it's peak.

But yeah, they just lost all major battles I guess, they were only feared because they wuz dumb LOL

geographical discoveries

>implying it was relevant
>implying it was a renaissance, not just some christian art in a period where they had an extremely rich empire (rebirth of pagan european ideals)

>developed of one of the most early medieval education
>nothing to do with language
i'll be honest, talking about things like these in this god forsaken place is pretty weird

>life was meaningless outside christianity
>what were philosophers

I guess there was also no religiosity outside christianity too... Oh the historical fallacies of you people...

Also, this thread should be on

OP most have read a science fiction novel because he ain't in tuch with reality.

Between Glenn Beck and the rest of Mormon Mafia, the Westboro Baptist Church, hypocritical Southern Baptists and completely cucked Protestants nobody in the US even understands Christianity anymore. Europe is worse because they shitcanned it a long time ago in order to normalize atheism.

Christianity is a quest to subjugate ego to truth. That's why practicing Christians live like Jesus did and will die before they lie.

When you have Luciferian "Christians" such as Mormons they are taught to lie all you want because you're somehow forgiven for it. They're dead wrong.

A society that values truth and honor always thrives. It's the societies who promote chickenshit lies ( GOP/DNC) that implode. That's why the US is imploding. Cultural .marxism attacking Christianity. Funded by your state and local government.

jordan peterson made a very interesting argument: christianity put the whole western world in a commom mindset or standard that at the end of the day allowed to growth together.

the vikings supposibly came to the americas first but they did not build anything they where more interested in pillage, the europeans where interested in pillage but also in BUILDING a colony and evangelising the savages, that is a HUGE difference in mindset.

You are retarded. Germanic peoples are only about 3000 years old. They didn't even finish settling West Germany until about 2500 years ago.

A system of education, the content was whats important not the language it was written in. Feel free to fill me in on how you would answer the OPs question though. Was your point that europes rise occurred before the renaissance or that the renaissance should not attributed to egyptian knowledge?

/pol actually has a lot of academics, where else can you discuss history with any honesty without being crucified as a bigot.

BS, Vikings never colonized Frankia. They got co-opted into becoming French by the French Emperor, who settled them in a sparsely populated part of France. You either are very ignorant, or just dishonest.

The truth is, Europe never was truly Christian.
Catholic traditions are very pagan in nature, Protestantism is at the moment being replaced with spiritualism and paganism.
Protestantism is so un-European we basically ditched it as soon as it became acceptable.
Not as many people identify as atheist as you'd think.

I hate it when Wiccans try to hijack the conversation.

>/pol actually has a lot of academics
only memers and underages here dude
>where else can you discuss history with any honesty without being crucified as a bigot.
i don't know about your country, but here in Italy you can talk as much as you want.
No offense, but the whole "bigots, social justice" thing is an american exclusive, based on england traditions.

The Romans, pagans that they were, destroyed Druisdism well before Christianity arrived. They also persecuted other pagan beliefs that would show up occasionally in different parts of the Empire, if they felt these beliefs were hostile to the Empire. They also persecuted Christians and Jews.

So where is the hostility of Christianity towards Europeans?

Christianity, in core Europe, with the exception of some Baltic tribes, was spread by missionaries that converted whole nations. They’d go among these people armed with nothing but a bible and a cross, and they would preach to the leaders of these tribes, and if they agree to be baptized, than that would be it. If people did not want to get baptized, it would be very difficult for a priest to be able to do anything about it.

Threads like this full under the "surprise surprise, the Christians are attacking the White race again!" category.
I'm a pretty tolerant guy but time and time again I catch you guys enthusiastically trying to stab other Whites in the back.
The problem with you guys in the movement is really made up of two things:

1) You don't have proof that your religion (which has many versions) is absolute truth, but you push on anyway.
2) Your religion comes first.
3) Because your religion comes first you always feel a strong compulsion to lash out at Whites that don't follow your religion.

I suggest people adopt a skeptical/agnostic and occultic approach to religion. You can have your personal suspicions, but don't start forcing shit and screeching without strong evidence. Besides, forcing someone to superficially adhere to your religion is not actually the same as conversion, so don't bother waving your fucking swords around.

To me, this is the most sensible thing White nationalists can do right now in regards to religion.

Normandy was not sparsely populated. Rouen (Rotomagus) was a major trading port, it even had a huge jewish community (of slavers). The area only became depopulated after the attacks by the Vikings, and the Franks only agreed for them to settle there because they had already attacked Paris multiple times and even sacked it, settling them there would stop their invasion.

Still, they lived in near autonomy for hundreds of years and used it as a base to launch their invasions of England and Sicily, where they reigned independently.

>inb4 the romans never invaded Spain, they were just "co-opted" by the Spaniards due to all their "culture"...

Mediterraneans aren't white, unless we're talking about history in which case WE WUZ ROMANZ

Your Nordics had no philosophers, only the Greeks and the Romans did, and none of the philosophies en vogue in the Empire, Stoicism or Hedonism, included anything even closely resembling what Christianity proposes as an understanding of the universe and humankind's role in it.

The Romans had to persecute the druids because they crossed the border and sponsored uprisings. They didn't persecute them for "religious" reasons.

The hostility of early christianity towards european can be seen in the vandalism they did in the Roman empire, destroying public buildings, all pagan temples and burial mounds, sometimes building their shrines on top of them, and defacing every statue and ancient site with crosses and so on, when not using them to make lime. They also restricted several literary works because they were "against church dogma" and so on, and deturped the european traditions, as "devil worship" and a "superstitious culture" that deserved to have been eradicated.

There is a reason why we have to go to ruined places like Pompei, that escaped the deliberate destruction done by the largely non-european early christians, to find the remains of the ancient world...

>what are sages, skalds and druids
>all philosophies, were, in truth, christianity haha!

Pagan violence is irrelevant to the point I am making about Christianity though.
It is a hostile religion to outside religions. That is true.
Also, these idea that Christianity was simply spread through conversion is a meme. Look up the Saxon war.

Fucking christcucks. If it weren't for that kike on a spike we'd be living in a multiplanetary roman imperium

>defending some indigenous tribes of shitlords who couldn't even wipe their ass, that they initially mocked Romans for their small stature and brown eyes/hair, then, when they saw a "tower moving" they were so scared that they sent a peace treaty with unconditional surrender.

...

>believing in the lie that our ancestors were "dirty", "uncompassionate" savages, when not even animals are like that

Guess (((who))) wants you to believe that... And by the way, if they were such savage people, what is that to say when they overcome your "greatest of all empires" and conquered Rome?

Are you implying we didn't have a Renaissance rise up, to space even, in spite of christianity?

> Unironically implies Greenland is in Europe

>its dajoos
>proxy being so retarded that there is continuity in Italian/Roman history, perfectly recorded and saved

>that he doesn't know*

...

...

>proxies being retarded

Not religious myself but clearly Christianity is the religion that made the west great and it is the reason islam and it's followers are classed as an underclass. I don't think it really has any huge significance nowadays though.

Go and read/watch information on how many fucking problems Europe had to deal with for over a thousand years. Europe's success was a millennium in the making by conquering numerous events that basically had them restart from tribal barbarism in most of Europe.

Like how you were part of the Lombard Kingdom, then of the Franks, then of the Holy Roman Empire?

Yes, "perfect continuity", of Germanic domination. Chances are your italian name is even of germanic origin like Landolfo (Landwulf) or Gottardo (Gotthard) and so on...

>being AnCap in 2k15+4+10-15
I bet your mommy tells you you're special

>proxy being so retarded that he thinks that we need a strong empire or shit like this to develop a culture or a recorded history
Italian literature, culture, and language are centuries older than national unity, you stupid ignorant larper.

It didn't become relevant until after Italy inspired the Rennaisance and Spain started to wobble as the global superpower. Up until then, Europe and the UK where basically just a bunch of unwashed tribals in tin cans beating each other up every summer. Once there was a power gap, then began the age of empire and building

>landolfo
>gottardo
>italian names
LMAOing at your attempts

Sages, Skalds and Druids are not philosophers. At least not in the commonly accepted understanding of what a philosopher is. There were seers, priests of Jupiter, and oracles in the Greco-Roman world, and those were not philosophers either.

Christianity, at least the Catholic and Orthodox versions, absorbed the thinking of Greek and Roman philosophers into its analysis of thinking about the world, and even for the development of preaching methods.

Anyways, it sounds like you want to live in a world where snow giants, Odin and Thor, and the Valkyries are real things. If that’s the case, so be it, I don’t see much wrong with it.

its like you see history as a fantasy world/fictional movie.
That's so fucking sad and pathetic.

Rome deserved to burn

>Your Nordics had no philosophers, only the Greeks and the Romans did

No.
>"They have philosophers and theologians who are held in much honour and are called Druids"
>Diodorus Siculus
It's not surprising that they had philosophers. I'm a philosopher for example. Sup Forums is full of fucking philosophers.

Look man, you obviously don't know very much about the subject. Go and study some more. There's no point lashing out furiously at the air, which is all you are doing.

No I'm saying that if the xians didn't destroy pagan ROMA we'd have started colonizing the solar system by now

>he thinks that destroying rome is possible
its called "la città eterna" for a reason, it has been burned, pillaged, destroyed, occupied and so on, and it still stands, you glorified bong inmate.

And it has been influenced by the Germans who ruled the places since then.

What is your name then? I could point several Italian names with german origins - like Pandolfo, Lorenzo, Adolfo and so on...

>They didn't have academia or extant writing, so that means they had not anything resemlbing philosophy whatsoever, despite the Roman narratives saying so

>using SICULUS of all of the things as an example
you're delusional.
go larp in another thread about your great lost civilization and shit like this.

this is a problem, see, how is now not important when we are livig in a society with chrisntian values, this is exactly the point J. peterson makes to atheist and they dont understand they just assume that without christianity our values would be exactly the same.

even if everyone "converts" to atheism you are still living in a society with christian values, you will have to actively push a whole new set of values to really be in a "non christian society", so its more profound than people think.

>And it has been influenced by the Germans who ruled the places since then.
>i don't know what lombard league is
>i am completely illiterate about history
>i see the world as a fictional story
please tell me you're an amerimutt or an underage. the thought about retards like you being closer than me to a fucking ocean terrifies me.

>using SICULUS of all of the things as an example

What's the contradiction you fat pizza chugging twerp?
Siculus, like many other Romans, spoke of Druid philosophers. The Nordics had philosophers. Lots of people have philosophers and there are lots of philosophers. The leafs argument was stupid.

Well, you can't say any place besides Greece had "philosophers" because they didn't have academia in the greek model, but even the Romans described how they had people akin to philosophers.

>absorbed the thinking of Greek and Roman philosophers i

All public religions have their basis, the fact some elements of greek philosophy were deemed as agreeable by church theology, does not mean "christianity" was it's "culmination", considering the power involved...

And again, you're portraying a projection of what things are...

>pandolfo,lorenzo,adolfo
lorenzo is the only modern one you pointed, and its latin.
>being so retarded

>the lombard (a germanic name) revolt annuls 1400 years of germanic dominance in Italy
>implying the Habsburgs didn't directly rule the duchy afterwards...

Not that guy, he is discrediting Siculus out of pure butthurt, but Siculus has some innacurate depictions in regards to some subjects.

wut
Do you even Roman Empire?

Every time you get called on your opinions, you change the definition of the point you first tried to make.

Druids were a priest class. A similar role to for instance, the Egyptian priest class.

Celts would not even understand the concept of "Philosopher". But a cultured Greek/Roman would, hence why he would use that word, for probably lack of another word. If that is the word that he used, instead of being a word used a by biased translator to make the Celts appear to have a more refined type of priest.

But if one thinks logically, it is obvious that a Druid is not the same as a philosopher. He is a priest, a healer, maybe even a teacher of some kind, but not someone akin to a philosopher. I would even say a Druid would occupy a much important role in a Celtic society than a philosopher in the Greco--Roman one.

>a germanic occupation (not even a clean one, because we're talking about the hre) influencing something
it was the opposite you fag. Italian city-states and the pope influenced everything and blue-balled you fag emperor to oblivion.
we even jewed you into the crusades.
Its because of us that there were retards screaming DEUS VULT and dying in the desert, defending italian "città marinare" profits.

Yes, you're correct in regards to Lorenzo, it's an indo-european root and has variants both in Latin and German, so you're correct that it did not derive from German in that context...

If not very popular names, I've seem Italian people with such surnames. "Adolfo" is a modern name, though, and I could list several others more... Like Adalberto, Enzo, Emillio, Fausto, Gaetano and so on...

That is not an entirely accurate description of the druids, who had, for instance scholarship and other varied roles and so on, they were not just priests, they were, for instance, architects too...

>it was not a clean occupation

Remind me, where did the italian noblity came from? But keep talking about how you "jewed everyone" when Austrians ruled your country up to the 19th century...

Adolfo was never used because of your nice leader.
The others are used only by old people.
Also
>Germanic influence
lel

Hit a nerve, eh? But, yes part of Italian culture comes from Germanics like Lombards and so on. Germanics ruled Northern Italy for 1400 years, which is more than the 600 years of the Roman Empire...

Don't be butthurt about it, Italians are europeans not "mediterraneans" or something...

>moving the goalpost from the crusades to the austrians
>talking about italian nobility
italian nobility had ties with EVERY SINGLE noble family in history
Also
>hiding behind a proxy
congratulations, you're more coward than an italian.

Nobility which elsewhere was Germanic. You're the one who mentioned the crusades while talking about the occupation of Italy and now you bitch about "muh goalposts"? Yeah...

>hit a nerve?
eh? germanic occupation never brought any cultural influence, you barbarian, it was the opposite
>Italians
>identifying with meds or nords or shit like this
Italians are Italians.

>"città marinare"
>led by noble families
>muh germanic nobility
amalfi, genoa, venice, and pisa were republics, you stupid fag

>nordics casually choose their fate
Thats a stupid fucking assessment of a struggling people living in a hostile environment.

>germanic occupation never brought any cultural influence

Yes, Lombardy was just a latin name for northern Italy, their customs look nothing like the Bavarians...

Oh lol, of the entirety of Italy, 4 cities and Rome were not ruled by German nobles, but Italians who mixed with the mainland nobility... Hm...

>Lombardy was just a latin name for northern Italy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombards
>Oh lol, of the entirety of Italy, 4 cities and Rome were not ruled by German nobles, but Italians who mixed with the mainland nobility... Hm...
i'm laughing so hard right now.
you are delusional.

>posts a link proving my point
>calls me delusional for stating the truth, but has no arguments

Read it you stupid idiot.
You made a retard of yourself all the time.

>being so retarded
Not an argument.


Ok, thanks for clarifying. I thought he thought I was calling Siculus a Nordic Druid.
His butt does seem very hurt though. I wonder how he hurt it?

>Every time you get called on your opinions, you change the definition of the point you first tried to make.

No I haven't.
Due to your female level retardation you think that criticisms and statements you find offensive are ATTACKS and you assume that these ATTACKS are DEFENCE of something else.
You see things purely in terms of LOYALTY and HATRED.
Me pointing out that Christianity is a hostile religion is just a mere statement. You think that I am saying that "Christianity is BAD because x and Paganism is GOOD!". Thus you think that mentioning Pagan violence and religious violence is a counter argument.
It isn't.

>Druids were a priest class. A similar role to for instance, the Egyptian priest class.
By all accounts they engaged in philosophy. I even gave you a direct fucking quote of them being referred to as philosophers.
Do you even know what philosophy is? it's almost impossible for some people NOT to be a philosopher. Thinking and the pursuit of wisdom through which best to live ones life is a natural compulsion to many people, which is why there are many philosophers.
This idea that there were no "Nordic philosophers" is fucking idiotic.

>Celts would not even understand the concept of "Philosopher". But a cultured Greek/Roman would,
The problem is the Greek and Roman sources talk about "barbarian philosophers" and provide some of the most important literary information about the Druids (for example) being philosophers.
>But if one thinks logically, it is obvious that a Druid is not the same as a philosopher.
Philosophy is one of the many things they engaged in.
Your claim that the Nordic peoples had not "philosophers" is utterly false.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacharsis

>Anacharsis was a Scythian philosopher

>eh? germanic occupation never brought any cultural influence

Knights.

Because Europe as a continent is defined by Christianity. If Turkey was Christian, it would be considered part of Europe. If the near-East had remained Christian, it would be considered Europe.