Was Sup Forums's hate for UBW largely unjustified?

Was Sup Forums's hate for UBW largely unjustified?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/_UIv077Lstw
youtu.be/Qy7Q77ZD_ME
vimeo.com/117249727
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

it was too long for its own good. the climax in the VN was better.

production values were top notch for the ufotable anime, but... to many episodes, heck the deen movie had more punch to it.

In a vacuum it's a pretty good show but it's not a worthy adaptation of UBW

>making the shortest route 2-cours long
>director declined Nasu's offer to rewrite the route's story
Remind me why we can't be critical of Fate on this board again

Too many episodes is not so much of a reason to hate it. What was 'the much better thing in the VN' that you were saying anyway? I really want to know why the VN is much better.

>On a waifu war perspective, they probably just don't want Shirou to turn into Archer.
Sakuras don't want that to happen because it would mean that she will lose Shirou along the way. They like F/HF more because she really had a 'heaven ending' there. That is no problem for Rins because if he turns into Archer, that means that Rin had Shirou from that start through Archer. If Shirou keeps using the Reality Marble and creating imitation swords, he would surely end up becoming Archer. Every Shirou who would become Archer would just step out of time&space and merge with Archer.

I'm not sure how to handle the Rin & Sakura counterpart in all universes. Fate universes is really fucked up.

The Faker & Tsundere is really a match made in heaven.
I bet those who hate UBW hates F/GO too.
I still haven't got to F/GO yet but I bet it would be good.

It's really hard to not take Shirou for a complete retard when you don't have all his inner monologues.

>Get to the best part of the route, Shirou vs Archer
>Get ready for EMIYA to play over frantic swordplay and clashing ideologies of a young man's idealism vs his older self's nihilism
>Get JPOP

If you didn't read the VN, you probably wouldn't have cared, but that ruined the entire adaptation.

Even with the inner monologues it's still fairly hard not to sometimes.

>inner monologues.
What is in his monologues that we could not see in his actions?

I like UBW but hate F/GO. It's trash.

Yeah but that makes him a semi retard with some depth. In every anime versions of him he is just 100% retarded.

They gave it to a shit director and made all the same mistakes as DEEN.

I love Fate and UBW is my favorite route, but Miura really fucked up the anime adaptation.

If you reading this had your first UBW experience with the anime, I feel sorry for you.

The Shirou vs Archer fight lost all meaning once they ditched Shirou's inner monologues and changed it to Archer's angst only.

As long as there is Archer & Rin there, It is good enough for me. So, what is trash about F/GO?

UBW anime made Shirou look like he knew what he was doing at the end, when actually he was only swinging his Kanshou with brute force. Archer even laughs at the fact that he was just desperately fighting without using the techniques he got from him.

I believe this part was extremely important:
>"……It isn't……!"
>How long has it been since then?
>There were things I lost,
>and there were things I dropped.
>There are always things that will be forgotten.
>So I swore to myself never to forget this one fact.
>
>——To become a superhero.
>I will protect it even if it isn't my wish, or even if it is just sophistry to soften my guilt.
>It has to come true...
>The person who saved me died, leaving those words behind.
>I believe in the wish contained in those words.
>Even if everyone in this world disagrees with me, and even if I myself curse me, I——

Also, mixing post-epilogue answer with Day 14 answer was just fucking awful overall. UBW reaches its peak with post-epilogue answer, when you finally see what was really going through Archer's mind when fighting Shirou.

ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE ONORE
youtu.be/_UIv077Lstw

Deen version was unironically better

It's funny how the supreme UBW version comes to live when you put together both DEEN and ufo versions.

DEEN has the close combat, which was crucial for Shirou's victory inside UBW, while ufo has the swordspam, which was also important to overpower Gil's swordspam.

Even Prisma Illya got that right.

DEEN at least did have a better soundtrack.
No Jpop shit.
youtu.be/Qy7Q77ZD_ME

I liked the adaptation, but I fucking cringed at Last Stardust

the only part in the anime where he comes off as a retard, when he's screaming at Archer to let him go.
without hearing his thoughts about the issue, he really comes off as a complete moron without any self-awareness

aside from that, I think the anime was spot-on

Gilgamesh is literally a Dio ripoff.

Why didn't he wear his armor again?

Because he underestimated his opponent, that's the only reason Gigamesh always get beaten.

I'm not sure about the deal Shirou not using what Archer thought him. But that is probably just symbolic of him doing things his own way and now depending on what others gives him. It might look foolish but when pride kicks in, those things happen. He is stubborn to the core. Shirou wanting to become a hero is something that is clear from the start. Hearing he saying that he will become one no matter what just proves that he would most likely end up becoming Archer.

Archer does not realize it yet but he did became what Shirou wants to be. It just so happen that it did not worked the way he wants it to be. No matter what good things we do, there is always a consequence to it. Archer & Shirou is not much different in that regard. They both need to accept that things does not always go the way we want it. If what the others are saying is true, that Shirou will probably not become Archer in F/HF then he miserably failed there. Any universe where Shirou does not end up becoming Archer is a failure so we could not call it good ending at all.

>Any universe where Shirou does not end up becoming Archer is a failure so we could not call it good ending at all.

They messed up the most important scene in the route so yes, the hate is justified.

Literally everything. UBW is a story about ideology and making them a reality what on earth do you think?

>Archer does not realize it yet but he did became what Shirou wants to be.
You wrote a lot of nonsensical stuff, but this deserved a highlight.

The route goes to great length showing and explaining just how crazy actually is, deconstructing it and the reconstructing it and the Shirou vs Archer fight completely misses the point.

Archer's back is very erotic

The Shirou vs Archer fight was pure eyecandy with 0 substance. They literally skipped the most important part of the battle: the Shirou monologue.

Instead they turned that whole powerful scene into a scene of Shirou running towards Archer with a Kiritsugu shot. For what fucking purpose.

>The source material was boring and the anime (which followed the VN word for word) was also boring.
Shocking. They had a chance to really make this into the great story it could have been, but were afraid of offending the fanbase and played it safe, to the usual disappointing result.

If a picture paints a thousand words then a motion picture paints millions of words. I need to re-watch UBW to confirm but my guess it that the dialogues were converted to visual/artistic rendition. Even the background sound can be part of the rendition. It is the same with the Monogatari series. With that in mind, it does not really mean that the adaptation is bad. Seeing that people are able to see what it lacks means that you get the story. But people should not be blinded of what it lacks and instead focus on what was added. It is a fact that the animation gives more feel to the scenario than the still images of the VN. If you are unclear about the details of the story, you can always get back to the source to fill it up.

>It is a fact that the animation gives more feel to the scenario than the still images of the VN.
But this is wrong. The emotion the VN delivered was stronger. Hell, I've seen people crying after reading post-epilogue answer and Last Episode.
>If you are unclear about the details of the story, you can always get back to the source to fill it up
This is a given, but when you're developing the fucking main character you can't miss that kind of info.

A Nasu rewrite would likely be terrible considering the current state of the Fate franchise.

You can, but to criticize stay night you must do it with the VN because every anime has been a mess.

>director declined Nasu's offer to rewrite the route's story
>same director asks Nasu to completely change "answer" (episodes 19-20)
fucking Miura, I swear

I loved it.

How can you not like Aimer? I don't understand;.

>hating on aimer
begone heretics

Are you serious? She sounds like she is out of breath in every song, and emo rock instrumentation only makes it worse. Whoever thought she was suitable for Fate should be gassed

but her voice is so relaxing

It's a gatcha-centered mobage with standard wave-based fights. The only thing that elevates it above other gatcha games is the (relatively) better graphics and writing. I'll admit that I like how you can unlock tons of dialogue lines for the various servants, voiced by their respective VAs.

Then again, maybe you'd like it. Archer and (technically)Rin are both in it.

Parts were too short, others too long, probably should have been 18 episodes

but the biggest problem is that fate is driven by internal struggle and dialogue that you cant put into an anime.

It wasn't bad but it only captured certain aspects of the original

I must finally play VN. I loved Zero. UBW was slightly worse but still very good. My friend on the other hand who finished VN said it was ok but still rather bad adaptation.

Don't bother, you're a filthy secondary who began with Zero. You don't belong here nor in any other TM discussion.

Well, you do belong to reddit so go make friends there.

You clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Nah, the fate route was just better.

Nasu is a terrible writer.

You are probably one of the fags who does not want Shirou to become Archer and would love Sakura & Shirou to get married, have kids and have a few grandchildren. Shirou is stubborn. He will most likely end up being Archer in almost every known universe. Archer & Shirou are alike because they are the same person. The only difference is that one still believes and the other lost his fate along the way.

Its been said the chances of him becoming archer in any universe are minuscule

The fact that Shirou became Archer means he eventually will even if there was close to zero possibility. Archer is not that naive when it comes to changing events in his time-line. That is why his had a goal of killing Shirou to prevent him from turning into Archer hence prevent him from killing all those people that he killed. So, it is not a question of the possibility for it to happen but to prevent it from happening. He has to give up every ideals he have to prevent him from becoming Archer.

There is a reason why people thinks that the Sakura route was the one that made Shirou end up being Archer. People may seem to give up on what they believe but when the time comes, they hold it up again. I can see Shirou doing something like that. That probably what happened the day he decided to have the contract with the world.

I began with Fate/Stay Night years ago so get lost.

Better than EGOIST, that's for sure

deen version better?
Fight is archer screaming
ubw fight followed closer to the Vn by actually saying why it pissed him off.
kys retard

did you even read the vn? Its clearly stated Shirou is unlikely to become archer. Archer knows the chance of killing Shirou changing anything is minuscule, He is just taking out his anger, he admits it himself.

The world of God is archer comes from a universe similar to the fate route only in it Shirou failed to understand Arturia in the end

He only needs to become archer in a single timeline. The chance of it happening in any singular timeline is small.

The UBW anime was one of the worst ones I've ever sat through. I tried so hard not to be one of those Zero dickriders. I tried to like it. But it was just...bad. The art direction was stupendous though.

Never understood why Gil was barely shown in the OPs when he was the main villain. I get that the Archer fight was arguably more important, but Archer got even less screentime in the second OP than fucking Gil did.

The Heaven's Feel OP is one of the greatest ever made fucking fight me

vimeo.com/117249727

how was it bad

Yes. Ufotable adapted that route perfectly (except for the CG but there's no helping that) and all his inner monologues are re-invented into visual imagery. Anyone with an attention span will be able to understand the main character easily, the fights were satisfying (if a bit flashy at times) and the characters all had plenty of screen time and development. The pacing was perfect with a slow build up to the first twist, and then it snowballed into a continuous stream of action to the end, just like the visual novel. Ufotable really outdid themselves with it and I re-watch it often.

I started with the shitty DEEN anime, then read the entire visual novel several times though. I'm normally the type of guy who clings to the source material and shuns all adaptations as shit but Ufotable's UBW refuses to let me be that way.

>all his inner monologues are re-invented into visual imagery
Yeah, someone who already read the VN would be able to tell. Anime only viewers must have a huge fucking imagination to understand that.

>Anyone with an attention span will be able to understand the main character easily
90% of anime fans are dumb fucks only seeking action and user-friendly explanations.

>90% of anime fans are dumb fucks only seeking action and user-friendly explanations.
Then their opinions are to be discarded and ignored. Nobody needs to stoop down to please idiots.

>Nobody needs to stoop down to please idiots
That's exactly what zero did though, and it was a success. Every person watching it felt smart and deep after watching it, but the same people thought UBW wasn't smart nor deep enough.

For people to enjoy cryptic series you also need to make them gay, like Eva or Utena, otherwise you're fucked. Eva isn't really that cryptic, just aspires to be cryptic but whatever. Anime needs to stoop down because the target audience are idiots. Period.

EMIYA did play at the climax of the fight.

There were some missteps, but the epilogue was fucking great.

>but the epilogue was fucking great
>proceed to fuck up Archer's last lines by mistaking エミヤ for 衛宮
JUST

>Archer
>in the epilogue
You seem confused user.

Sasaki executing a complete Tsubame Gaeshi version against Saber in their first encounter. When in the VN he was only able to execute the incomplete Tsubame Gaeshi due to not having enough room for the proper stance/footwork.
The complete Tsubame Gaeshi is supposed to be undefendable due to attacking multiple points at once and the slash angle acts as a cage.

Rin's fight against Caster was ruined because Rin relies on the element of surprise. She was suppose lull Caster into a game of pure magic battle while she edges closer and closer to her, and at the critical moment IMMEDIATELY charge in with her magically reinforced martial arts.

Archer shouldn't even bother dodging Kuzuki's attack since Kuzuki no longer have his buffs, hence his attack would be completely fucking useless against a servant.

Archer vs Shirou isn't even about actual combat strength, the actual battle was a battle of ideals, in which Shirou was only able to get a free critical hit due to the effects of his words on Archer. And Archer in that fight was more concerned with taking out his anger on Shirou and beating the ideals out of him.

etc...

You never watched post-credits?

Rin's fight against Caster always had a bullshit feel to it

It was always about taking Caster surprise with sudden melee, so Caster wouldn't have prepared physical barrier magic ahead of time.

She won the same way Punch-sensei briefly won against Saber, by being unexpected and relentless in melee.

>Deen version was unironically better
gas yourself.

Sup Forums hated UBW from ufotable? You gotta be shitting me. Then again didnt that happen during their MOE cuck sucking era?

Sup Forums was in such a shit state that even Sup Forums began to accept anime threads.

nice job outting yourself as the idiot that didn't read the VN and have no idea why the UBW anime was butchered so much to the point many scenes don't make sense to anime-only watchers.

Should have been Tainaka Sachi.

Please stop pointing out all the important anime mistakes, you're bringing up bad memories that I already forgot, or at least I thought so.

Well that's true, Sup Forums was extremelly shitty while UBW was airing. And yeah, UBW anime was quite good I guess, but it fucking pales in comparison the the VN.

Miura is just a fucking piece of stinky shit.

Ufotable had better sound directing, DEEN everyone was screaming, when Shirou was perfectly calm in the VN. Ufotable Gil was too calm however.

DEEN's usage of Engrish over Shirou's pure Japanese aria was weird as well, Him pulling out Caliburn is also weird since he never saw it in UBW, but can be handwaved away as Archer data download.

DEEN had the fight closer, but neither of them nailed it. It should've been UBW locking out GoB, while Gil and Shirou consistently switching weapon

DEEN's had Kenji Kawai and 我が骨子は捻れ狂う , so points for them.

>Ufotable Gil was too calm however.
They wanted to keep Zero Gil because he was more popular I think.

The thing is, that UBW fight is replicating Gil's first fight with Enkidu, the one that begun their friendship. In desperation, Gil started shooting weapons out of the Gate of Babylon to try and outspeed Enkidu, who was replicating his weapons with mud. This was the first usage of GoB the way he did in the future. (Source: Extra CCC)

He's angry for that reason. Him being calm made no sense for a series that was made 3 years after CCC came out. Unless of course Miura never read it

>我が骨子は捻れ狂う
What's up with that anyway? The furigana had it read as "I am the bone of my sword", and it had little to do with Caladbolg itself, aside from the twisting part. Fergus never went mad, as far as I know

But he was throwing the weapons from his treasury

>Was it surprise or anger he felt, encountering his equal for the first time. In the midst of battle, he took his prized treasures in hand. I don’t think there was anything more disgrace for him than having to draw out the treasure he held so dear. At first he did it out of necessity, because he was cornered. But by the end he was throwing all the treasure he possessed into the fray, joyfully, holding nothing back.

-----


>“There has been no stability in my treasury ever since you came here. I must have caught your stupidity to fight by throwing treasures.”

From how I interpreted it, Gil started using weapons from his treasury normally, but in the end resorted to throwing them GoB style out of the gate.

fun fact:

>Interview summary: "Apparently Gil's personality is heavily influenced by the era he's summoned into. He was a jerk in FSN because the world (his property) was being sullied by the consumption society of the early 2000s, which rubbed him the wrong way. He's taken a liking to the virtual world of 2032, though, so his personality is more stable and closer to how he actually was in life. Wada says he reminds her a little of Hollow Ataraxia Gil."

>He was a jerk in FSN because the world (his property) was being sullied by the consumption society of the early 2000s, which rubbed him the wrong way. He's taken a liking to the virtual world of 2032
this is so fucking stupid

Pretty sure he was throwing them manually considering he wouldn't have an actual GoB NP.

Considering heroic spirits were based on the human imagination of legends.

>Faeries were materialized forces using the imagination of humans as framework, while Heroic Spirits were woven purely from the ideals of humans through and through.

>It's been explained that Heroic Spirits are beings that heroes whom belief has been gathered upon become after death, but heroes of myths and legends can be born by the gathering of belief even if they didn't exist.

And because of the Collector skill that automatically gives him all of humanity's treasures past and future.

you can look at it this way.

He doesn't think much of modern humans, thinking they just let anybody live, especially aimlessly in massive numbers.

Meanwhile humans of 2030 are more driven and cutthroat in far fewer numbers.

Also the mooncell is kind of a chill place to live once the holy grail wars end.

From CCC:
>Was it with surprise or anger that he reacted against encountering an equal for the first time?
>In the midst of the battle, he drew out the treasures that he had stored away.
Not at the start. During the battle. The Japanese text is 「戦いの中」.

It is never specified how Enkidu fought against Gilgamesh. It is only specified that Gilgamesh opened the Gate unwillingly; after having been driven back.
>「はじめは追い詰められて、やむなく。」
>At first, being pressed; reluctantly.
>「けれど最後は楽しみながら憎しみなく、持てる財を投入した。」
>But, at the end, he cast his treasures in enjoyment, without resentment.

So: at the beginning of the fight, Gilgamesh was not fighting with *anything* which came from within the Gate of Babylon (or 'his treasury'). At some point, he began to use weapons from the Gate. At an unspecified later point, he started to fire them as projectiles. We do not know at what he was firing them. At any rate, it is specified that Gilgamesh got his habit of firing weapons from dealing with Enkidu.
>「財宝を投げ撃つなぞ、頭の悪い癖をつけさせてくれたな」
>You've given me the lazy habit of firing my weapons.

>firing

pretty sure the japanese text talks about throwing.

They should've made it from Rin's perspective and focused on how fucked up Shirou/Emiya looks from the outside.

>投げ撃つ
>throw
lol yeah ok

...

>She sounds like she is out of breath in every song

That's like, the best thing about her though.

Ufo adaptions are pretty much all flare but no real substance. The way they portray characters and some creative decisions is mediocre at best but the animation alone bumps it up to a solid 7/10 for me.

The VN still remains as the best piece of Fate out there then Carnival Phantasm then Zero

Totally lost steam in part 2.
Final fight was cooler in my head.

ufo's ubw was bad for a number of reasons, anyone with a critical eye and knowledge of the source material would agree

but no point dwelling on the past, i just hope heavens feel is adapted well it's really all i ask for in this lifef

>i just hope heavens feel is adapted well
Lancer and Assassin fighting on the back of a truck on the highway

You really expected them to play EMIYA for like 30 minutes straight?