Is Conrad right...

Is Conrad right? Is Fate stupid boring bullshit that people only defend because they invested so much time into the nasuverse that they don't want to feel like they wasted it on a chuuni story with the thematic depth of Naruto?

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I don't know who Conrad is, but Fate is pretty fun.

He didn't even finish the Fate route.

>Conrad
Who? Also, kill yourself.

He literally said he was joking in the next video and that entire concept was so ridiculous that it should have been self explanatory.

>e-celeb shit
>anime e-celebs
>western anime e-celebs

Fucking lmao you can't go any lower.

Yeah

????
This thread isn't about ecelebs.

Then who the fuck is "Conrad"?

Someone the OP briefly mentioned to introduce the actual subject of the thread.

Yeah, so an e-celeb. Fuck off.

its Digibro.

Wtf i hate fate now

Conrad is Digibro.
I like Fate, but it has some pretty indefensible shortcomings.

He can say what he wants. His stance is somewhere between wanting us to take it seriously, taking it as a joke and outright ignoring it in favor of returning to more insular fandom communities of the early 2000's.

Who gives a shit.

Who?

Is he tackling Fate/Zero and UBW? Because they were great.
I do agree that the VN and FGO fanbase is absolutely retarded and manchild.

I watched a few minutes of that video. Right out the gate he and the guy with him get a multitude of things wrong about the franchise, and why it's liked.

I wonder what The Anime Man would have to say.

Which Digimon is that?

>Is _____ stupid boring bullshit that people only defend because they invested so much time into the _____verse that they don't want to feel like they wasted it on a chuuni story with the thematic depth of Naruto?

Insert long running series into the blank and lol at butthurt it creaates

Example

Is One Piece stupid boring bullshit that people only defend because they invested so much time into the One Pieceverse that they don't want to feel like they wasted it on a chuuni story with the thematic depth of Naruto?

Fate is trash. That is all.

It's not about the whole series,Fate has 2 good shows.One piece is boring as fuck and I dropped the show for the manga(and even then it's still boring and feels like a chore for me)

>F/Zero and UBW anime
>Great
The state of filthy secondaries

I'm a primary. Ufotable's adaptations were fine. Just way too many people sperging about details they didn't like, or understand, because they were brainlets, like LotR and GoT bookfags.

If you actually believed the fucking words you wrote.
I'm not the one lying to myself.

There are Fate fans and then there are TYPEMOON fans. I just want more TYPEMOON stories like we were promised like Mahou 2, 3 and Tsuki 2 but 10 years later we got none of those but like over a half dozen fate games. They seemed to be making a buttload of money dunno why they cant make both at the same time.

Who gives a rat's ass. If he had any writing skills of his own he'd find employment as a script writer, instead of you know asking people for a dollar.
Also, you can't fake having read a 1000 page book.

Because Mahoyo was Nasu's first real failure.

Heaven's Feel soon boys

Do we have info yet on how they're going to be doing screenings in the US?

Do you mean financially, or as a work? As a work, I personally think that it is the best thing that TYPE-MOON has put out.

Financially, yes, but it was panned. People were annoyed at the lack of voice acting, interaction, and the fact that it was 1/3rd of a story, only about the size of the Fate route.

Considering this is coming from a guy who's released multiple iterations of FSN, with QoL changes, why wouldn't any sensible consumer avoid the initial version like a plague?

I thought it was about the story and characters, and Tohsaka's anus. Not about being a (sic) sensible consumer.

>(sic)

Excuse me? No, "sensible" is a word.

Lack of porn might have rubbed some users the wrong way, but the all ages version of FSN is by far the most popular. The story issue is again rooted in the fact that it's a chopped up story. 1/3rd of a trilogy.

The lack of voice acting was extremely deliberate; that is on record. Interaction is nonsensical for something which is to be called a 'novel', even if it has been prior tradition. The only legitimate complaint about Mahoyo which can be fairly lodged is about the price versus the content.

>Interaction is nonsensical for something which is to be called a 'novel', even if it has been prior tradition

...What the fuck? One of the cornerstones of visual novels as a medium is their ability to provide user interaction. That's what makes them unique, and provides the ability to tell different narratives. Kinetic novels are a far weaker experience- a middle point between an LN and an anime.

>Ufotable's adaptations were fine

Yep. Bookfag logic. Take small little things they didn't appreciate (i.e., in this case, mistreatment of their personal waifu), and thus try and create an entire autistic ground for why the adaptation as a whole was shit.

So, did you just read the parts of that sentence that you wanted to disagree with?

I hate to break it to you, but there's literally nothing wrong with linear storytelling. Yes, it lacks an interactive element, but the interactive element is pointless bullshit in 90% of VNs anyways since they're often made to be read in their entirety. They're not RPGs.

the TM setting is an amazing bit of worldbuilding with an interesting and unique way of magic and everything, its just the actual stories they do in this amazing setting are shit.

Who the fuck is Conrad?
>its Digibro.
Who the fuck is Digibro?

I'm saying calling interaction in a "novel" nonsensical, is idiotic. The driving interest of VNs is their interaction.

Even if you're meant to read them in their entirety doesn't mean there they don't provide a greater means for authors to tell non-linear stories, and explore unique elements. FSN is largely linear, but the massive branching between routes creates discussion to this day.

No RPG has provided branching on the level of the differences you see between UBW and HF.

...

Do you not know that there are non-visual novels...?

>muh honor
>random transforming motorcycles
>gil's missing flashback and more
>much of kiritsugu's characterization cut, such as crying at night, his realization about illya and iri, and the prologue
>distinct lack of manchild-lampshade-hanging, leading the the secondary fanbase thinking fate/zero is "dark" and "mature"
>completely transforming one of the endings of the story into the literal opposite of its former self
>small little things
What exactly did you appreciate about these changes, shitposter-kun?

Yes. Is English not your first language? If I want to read a novel, I'll read a novel. If I want to play a VN, I hope to see all the advantages the you can take with the medium.

I bet you bitched that Jackson cut the Battle of Bywater, in Return of the King, even though that movie already had like, five endings.

Yet, somehow, you continue to miss the fact that my original post was not about that.

Then please explain what you mean by this sentence, cause I can't crack it.

>Interaction is nonsensical for something which is to be called a 'novel', even if it has been prior tradition.

Go ahead. Dismiss the argument and try to change the subject with a strawman argument to hide the fact you've never actually read any primary Fate material. Fate/Zero is an adaptation on the same level as K-ON! and Mushishi, after all.

It doesn't need to take advantage of all the strengths of the medium if it doesn't want to tell that kind of story. It still has some of the best music and animation of any VN ever and a pretty solid if incomplete story. Many print books had interactive narratives as well, but none of them and no visual novels have real emergent gameplay. Like Nasu said, you aren't walking in the shoes of the characters, your watching their lives unfold.

Fukasawa's score for Mahoyo was fantastic, and I was thrilled with his work for UBW, but at the end of the day, flash like that, and its art, doesn't make up for substance, and a removal of mechanics that previous titles like Tsukihime and FSN offered clearly rubbed people the wrong. Again, even if it just wanted to tell a good story, it told an incomplete one.

FSN's "gameplay" was rooted in you, as a reader, coming to understand Shirou. If you just self-inserted, you failed. With so many bad ends, you had to logically think about what Shirou would do in that situation, rather than what you would. It makes you grow to appreciate his character, and his quirks.

It's why it's such a strong moment, when, in something like the Archer fight, there are no choices, because both Shirou and Archer already knew how that all was gonna go down.

>FSN's "gameplay" was rooted in you, as a reader, coming to understand Shirou. If you just self-inserted, you failed.
I really like that it turned out to be that way, but I seriously doubt this was intentional. Nasu doesn't strike me as having that meta vision.

It's true what you say about the choices, but a test of reading comprehension isn't exactly necessary to understand a character. It's more important to conveying the themes of the story through efficient organization across multiple timelines. I understand why the absence of that may bother people in Mahoyo, but they're all just words and pictures at the end of the day. Some stories are better told across one linear narrative. It's really petty to be bothered by an author picking and choosing what elements he wants when he's written stories for all kinds of VNs, LNs, RPGs, Musou, and even gacha. I don't see anyone complaining about the lack of choices is KnK or Angel Notes.

>I don't see anyone complaining about the lack of choices is KnK or Angel Notes
Because those aren't VNs. Mahoyo is a VN, but it lacked everything that his previous works have.

>I don't see anyone complaining about the lack of choices is KnK or Angel Notes.

Well that's because there was a precedence before Mahoyo for visual novels with a high level of interactivity.

You ever play Kagetsu Tohya? There's so much you can do there, and so much emphasis on non-linearity, that it's astonishing.

Even just trying to read this flow chart will leave you lost, which is perfect, since part of that game's purpose is to convey a surreal, dream-like atmosphere, that confuses and bewilders you.

All of of Nasu's previous game titles offered something for those interested in interactivity. It's understandable why Mahoyo disappointed on that regard.

...

E-celeb threads should be banned jesus christ.

That's the thing though: VN is just a label. It doesn't mean anything. It's presumptuous to complain about any story not fitting a particular label instead of appreciating it for its own merits. "Oh, this doesn't have a sex scene, so it's a shitty romance novel." Stuff like that. Is it possible that Mahoyo could have been a nonlinear story like its predecessors? Considering how much good that did for Fate and Tsukihime, probably. It is a story about time travel, after all. It is what it is, though. There's no reason to complain about the what without thinking about the why.

You're an idiot. People expected Mahoyo to be another interactive VN, because all of Nasu's previous VNs were interactive. If Nasu didn't want to disappoint people he should have made it a novel; not a VN.

We're not talking about how good/bad Mahoyo is, we're talking about the reason why it failed.

>it lacked everything that his previous works had
lol okay you gave it up too easily with that

The MC is so fucking boring.
And Zerofags dared to call Kirito"generic".

>The MC is so fucking boring
Are you talking about Kiritsugu or Shirou?
Protip: there's only one right answer.

Digibro has shit taste to begin with.
Fate is good but has flaws.

I remember one of the bonus skits you can read explains that during the testing phase for the game the playtesters actually complained that the game was too hard.

Visual novels offer more than just interactivity. A novel can't provide graphics and sound which definitely add to the immersion.

And Mahoyo kneecapped itself even there by not having voice acting.

No one would ever deny that it didn't have great music and animation, but man, at that point, you're kind of more of a gimped anime.

>Mahoyo kneecapped itself even there by not having voice acting
You need to wait for the PS version

It's more accessible. Even Nasu agreed.

And yeah Fate has by far the worst fanbase I'm affiliated with in no small part due to "her der secondary."

There are a few negative changes with the Zero anime. Rin's Adventure being by far the biggest, censorship regarding Caster, cutting Maya's backstory, and the fact that much of of Kiritsugu's character, a lot of which is difficult to translate from the written word, gets lost between mediums. Sakura suffered from the same thing with Kariya due to a lack of internal dialogue. But the Kiritsugu flashback in the anime is much better than the short one from the light novel, making me wish that Fate and Tsukihime actually crossed over more, and just taken as a stand alone, and not necessarily as as a perfect adaptation, the anime makes for top tier urban fantasy.

Shirou from Fate/Stay Night

Yeah, and I'm saying its retarded that people go into it with those expectations. I never said it didn't fail for that reason. It's a problem with the audience's mindset that led to the failure.

You take that back.
youtube.com/watch?v=2bAvgpWM3Is

Saying that voice acting is the only difference between a visual novel and an anime is just ridiculous.

Literally Kirito 2.0
Or Kirito meets Oniisama

When you remove interactivity its uniqueness starts to lessen. Mahoyo more or less was just a fancy light novel.

Light novel is a better comparison. Still, I would argue that most visual novels are fancy light novels by definition. The high interactivity of titles like Kagetsu Touya and Clannad are exceptions.

Could you really release FSN as a light novel and not lose a significant portion of itself? Part of its appeal lies in seeing the same basic scenario, with key twists of """"fate"""" that branch it all off in wildly different scenarios.

Don't know who "Conrad" is. If you do, you are probably a huge faggot. The answer is "No".

Fate Apocraphya or whatever it is called completely fucking sucks. There is no getting around it, it's garbage.

Most of Type-Moon's new shit, is that, derivative works. Nonsense. Whatever.

But FSN, Fate Zero, Tsukihime, F:HA, KnK, etc? Those are all great VN/Anime and time is very well spent there.

But if you know whoever this Conrad guy is? You're a fucking shitbag. You suck. Go watch other people play video games. Go watch other men fuck your wife. Cuck.

What's a digibro?

>Conrad

What kind of gay ass name is that?

Yeah, the core franchise is solid, maybe Extra too, the rest is fanservice-tier at best.

>tfw Secondary and didn't like UBW animooted series

Feels good.

As three different novels, sure.

who the fuck is Conrad and why should i care what he thinks? he could be a dick lover for all i know.

and who the fuck is digibro who- i should kick your fucking ass for talking nonsens.

That wouldn't work. The core theme of F/SN is the progression of the routes from Fate>UBW>HF.
With three different novels it doesn't work because you can just read the other books whenever you want to.

im a original fan and i liked zero and UBW serise.

UBW just did things a bit different compeard to the VN.

You've got to be kidding. Who doesn't read a series in order?

The thing is, each route more or less starts at the same place. It's both linear, and not linear.

It's multiple interpretations of the same events. While you definitely shouldn't start UBW before going into Fate, it's not like starting from The Two Towers.

It still would be less impactful, since you need to buy three books instead of one.

They are intended to be read in a certain order. You can't even take the choices to the next route until you see the previous ending.

Which is why that's the problem. any schmuck could go up to a bookstore and buy "Heaven's Feel" first.

Let's also be honest. The non-linearity in that format would confuse people. Each book would start almost exactly the same, and tell the same basic premise of a story. You're not buying a sequel, you're buying something else entirely.

>Is Conrad right?
who

>Is Fate stupid boring bullshit that people only defend because they invested so much time into the nasuverse
Prior works/events were pretty much ignored before FS/N other than some basic concepts, so there's not too much carry over other than the initial investment reading the VN.

The chuuni powerlevelwankery is fun and doesn't detract from the serious nature too much since fights are more decided by trickery/planning than stat blocks smacking eachother. Haven't read Naruto in all honesty, but I really doubt it thematically comes close to the three starkly different Shiros across the three original routes, before even considering where-else the spinoffs explored the same character given different circumstance

If someone goes to the store and buys book three that is their problem. Why would things be any more confusing on paper if the text is identical to that of the game's?

>Read book 1
>Go to book 2
>It starts off exactly the same and acts like book 1 never happened

It doesn't work. It'd confuse people too much.

>finish fate route
>"You can now access UBW!"
>return to menu

If people can watch endless eight they can reread the first three days of fate.

Non-linearity is expected in visual novels and games of this sort. It's a far more difficult sell in actual books.

Endless Eight was also almost entirely a meme. These are heft, 200-300k novels.

You know you can skip the parts you've already read right?

>Making you pay for stuff you already own