Can we all agree that Cowboy Bebop has aged like milk? It wasn't really that good to begin with

Can we all agree that Cowboy Bebop has aged like milk? It wasn't really that good to begin with.

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>Contrarian

>Contrarian

Correct

Never liked it, felt only the last episodes were any good. Fucking hated samurai champloo as well.

>Hi my name is user and it's my first day baiting on Sup Forums!

This is now a hating on "objectively well-constructed shows" thread

It’s my normie filter

>I like anime, cowboy bebop is one of my favorites, just not the sexist, pandering, under aged girls plaguing the industry!

The animation is still leagues better than most things coming out nowadays. The story was breddy gud, and the one offs were actually interesting.

Maybe you're just being a contrarian faggot just because the show was on Toonami/AS?

>ask someone like OP to explain their understanding of Cowboy Bebop
>they get it completely wrong and missed many important details
I hate plebs

I saw it for the first time a few days ago. It was amazingly stylish but the entire time I felt it was a bit rushed. What Bebop needs is a faithful remake with longer episodes and a bit more focus on character development.

youtube.com/watch?v=N37jpdRIY2c

No, and you lack taste bait-kun.

What the fuck was his problem?

Well I consider myself an anime elitist. I like a variety of genres across all decades of anime (except the 60s stuff, could never get into that).

I honestly think bebop is a 3/5 show carried almost entirly by the suberb animation. It's OVA quality. Among the best that has even been done if you only count TV series.

The problem is that virtually the entire cast is boring. I never felt a reason to relate to, to cheer for, or want to learn more about the characters. So as a result it is difficult to care about what's happening to them. I never saw the last episoide. I turned it off when I started getting vibes that they were going to get killed off because I have no emotional interest in whether anyone in the world lived or died. The best episoides were the comedy ones. If the anime didn't have those it would have been too boring to sit though.

Bebop has no plot. Its a fun show buts its not deep at all

>reddit spacing
>that shit bait
can you go

He was edginess incarnated. However it kinda works for the series because you can tell it was innocent on that time and not just uninspired.

Also Spike cucked him.

If you go into it with the expectation it being "DA BEST ANIME EVAR" of course you are going to think it's underwhelming.

Julia cheated on him with Spike.

Sounds like you didn't understand it.

Nice counter points bub.

Seriously the spacing? Is that what you resort to when you can't find any misplaced commas?

Fuck no, can you imagine how low tier and shit the animation would be nowadays?

youtube.com/watch?v=N37jpdRIY2c

watching this, i feel the problem is people sometimes buy the "deep" bullshit and watch it with that on mind instead of just enjoying a good show. Almost nothing on this anime felt "deep" to me. You have to see the characters actions more than his words, but thats as far as it goes. Its just a good show.

Bebop was a show with great art and production held back by cliché plots and underdeveloped characters
Champloo was a show with well-developed characters and anew engaging story but middling art

I also hated how Bebop shoved the fanservice in your face all the time

sorry but there's nothing to counter saying shit like I didn't care about any of the characters isn't a valid criticism for anything but considering the nature of Bebop it's very strong proof your mental deficiency to bait that is

Too bad Champloo had shitty R&B/Hiphop music.

Literally ruined most of the episodes for me. I hate hip hop/rap. Its is like garbage tier music for garbage people.

He was a psychopath that thought he found his equal in Spike, only to end up broken after the man betrayed him and growing even more jaded after realizing even the Syndicate is changing and becoming softer. In short, he was a demon that couldn't handle all the other demons stepping into the light.

Watanabe really came into his own with space dandy.

How is having character you care about NOT important?

I made it about 50s in before I closed the video

>what does it mean
It's extremely clear what it means. The fact this video is posted TWICE in this thread is far funnier than its actual tryhard contents. You could literally make a video with silly visuals and selectively state the actions of the characters while making 'SILLY NOISES' for any and every anime ever, and it'd be just as accurate.

Honestly I think what's happened is more and more people visit this site now and we're full of underage faggots who didn't watch Bebop originally and come into it the sterilizing perspective built by watching modern shows and are basically unable to appreciate anything with substance but know they're 'suppose' to watch it and like it that it's objectively good or something so they just assume a contrarian retard stance without ever putting in the slightest effort to experience something unlike what they understand, SAO or some shit.

>Honestly I think what's happened is more and more people visit this site now and we're full of underage faggots who didn't watch Bebop originally and come into it the sterilizing perspective built by watching modern shows and are basically unable to appreciate anything with substance but know they're 'suppose' to watch it and like it that it's objectively good or something so they just assume a contrarian retard stance without ever putting in the slightest effort to experience something unlike what they understand, SAO or some shit.
Or maybe people haven't actually changed that much, Bebop is still a good show and the only fucktards who go ahead and trash it viciously are part of a vocal minority?

it is important but it's also impossible to not care about Bebop's characters without actually being autistic

there's NO-ONE who didn't tear up like a little bitch at this scene who has functional brain chemistry, they don't exist
youtu.be/Tj5zvVwAmQI

Bebop has incredibly strong characters so suggesting otherwise is simply bait.

>tfw know people irl who unironically think SAO and AoT are great shows
>have recommended shows like TTG and Madoka to them for them to come back and tell me I like weird crap and that they dropped the show
I have to deal with these people everyday at work and catch myself just starring at them with hate sometimes.

If your standard for what makes a good character comes from Magical Girl shows, for example, then why would something with deliberately nuanced characters like Bebop be appealing? Of course, that's a pretty specific example, but could you stop being such an abrasive fuckwipe and just accept that people can dislike things that you like?

Better than being a sheepfag with no brain. Develop your own opinion and stop sucking each other's cocks.

i heard one of the creators say he imagined every episode as a movie. except he had to fit that into 20 mins

Born in le wrong generation meme

I'm sorry if this was the best moment or life or something but this was only mildly enjoyable to me. I've cried a few times from anime but certainly not at this.

Ed was cute, she was the comic relief. That's it. Not bad.

You've got Fei. Fei is nice eye candy. She had a mysterious past which never really got developed. Not bad.

Spike? He never really had much drive to him. A very weak lead. Also killed any chance of the tension with him and Fei being interesting. He was passable.

Jet. I don't even remember a thing about him so he can't be terrible interesting if nothing was worth remembering. So I'd call him a flop.

Now do you want to make a case for why these characters are great and I should care about them succeeding, failing, or finding what they want?

just say you don't like hip hop because your racist and didn't get invited to parties in high school

No. I like blues. Bebop is blues in anime form. It's stories about people with shitty lives, doing their best and failing.

We don't gotta explain shit.

Not quite. I find it so odd people fail to fully understand Vicious's significance when he only has like 10 lines throughout the whole fucking show. I mean come on, there's not that much to even examine.

you have to go back btw

its good definitely and I don't think its aged badly but people who say its an 11/10 need to seriously kill themselves

this

Fapping to ed was fun until I found out she was a she

>can't even appreciate the cool juxtaposition of Edo-era Japan with Hip-Hop on a surface level
Maybe it is you who is a garbage person

...

Or maybe hip hop is just garbage?

I grew up with a lot of classical music, rock, blues/Jazz, ect.

Blues/Jazz definitely has black roots, and I love Jazz.

So maybe, just maybe....hip hop/rap is shitty rhymes for garbage people?

We can all agree that any thread that starts with "Can we all agree" is made by an autistic faggot who needs to stop fucking posting.

>juxtaposing retard shit music over edo period Japanese culture.

I guess, If you wanted to insult Japanese history or something.

>Well I consider myself an anime elitist.

>don't like [X genre] means yous one dem raseest drumpf shuppertors
Please just kill yourself

Explain how Bebop is deep

You know what the hilarious thing is? Bebop can't age...because it's so memorable. There's no need to even rewatch it because the episodes and characters stay with you. I can't think of another anime that is so burned into my brain like Bebop, I watched it what...jesus almost 20 years ago? I can still hear the OP or ED in my head if I try and just thinking about so many scenes makes me feel the same emotions I felt way back then...

I know saying his name is half a taboo around here but Digibro has an amazing video on why Bebop is so good and so seminal.
youtu.be/Ip5CpjXR4CI

So far it seems the only counter argument is
>reddit

If the characters in Bebop are so great surely there must be something to say in praise of them!

>spoonfeed me
No.

Not only is this incredibly superficial, but you're looking at these characters all wrong. I understand not liking the show but this makes you look like a fool. The show is in no way deep yet you managed to fuck up.

>Not quite

How so? I think that user described him perfectly.

Can we all agree that this thread is bait and sage it?

I imagine people who praise spike are modern watchers, i.e. they're used to pussy MC's that never shut up about their friends and are afraid of females.
To people used to that, spike would seem like Jesus Christ, come to redeem anime's sins. But to people used to 80s/early 90s anime, spike seems like a disattached asshole with a commitment problem, not really MC material.
Personally I enjoyed the show enough not to shit on it, but I definitely think the characters are stronger than the story.

Spike cheated on him with Julia.

>a hating on "objectively well-constructed shows" thread
>on Sup Forums
I'm shocked!

Can we all agree that you need to shut the fuck up?

Or maybe the entire show was meant to evoke a "Hip-Hop" aesthetic and the thought that your original comment didn't just outright pan the show but instead implied that it would have been good without the music just goes to show how stupid and inconsistent you are. The transitions during the show's mid-point were meant to be like a fucking DJ's record scratch. How oblivious can you be?

You think Vicious was upset that Spike left him? That a complete fucking nihilist like him could actually get "jaded"? The fact that he is a nihilist is what's important here because...so is Spike. The two are meant to be foils for one another. I actually have a lot to say on the matter and wonder if I should write a blog or something...but at the same time I don't want to give it away just to be an asshole, feel elitist, and of course in the hope people can figure out things for themselves. Not that I'm certain I'm right about the intent of the author, but certainly other interpretations are very reductionist and I believe not nearly as credible or interesting as my own.

Do you want to actually put up some counter points? You're the 3rd person to try to handwave it wave with 'you don't get it' or some stupid 1 line green text reply? Other people have also voiced criticism with the character with no counter points.

It just makes it sound like you have no real counter points and have to resort to whining and stomping your feet.

This makes a lot of sense. If you've seen a good chunk of the 80s and 90s OVAs Spike is positively boring and maybe even a little whiny.

he's a cuck

>The transitions during the show's mid-point were meant to be like a fucking DJ's record scratch. How oblivious can you be?

I understand that, but that doesn't make hip hop/rap any less shit.

Maybe, but it does prove that you liking the show even without the Hip-Hop is fucking dumb. You can't take the Hip-Hop out of Champloo and actually expect it to hold up.

Cowboy Bebop aged like honey

it didn't

Not to mention that the whole hip hop aesthetic is completely integral to Champloo in the same way that Bebop wouldn't be Bebop without its jazz and film noir. The whole point is to juxtapose the plot conventions of the genre (sci-fi, edo period) with the connotations of the aesthetic to disrupt said conventions and create space for new narratives to be told.

Same here, although it's been a while and I have already forgotten what they are about. I do remember I liked Bebop more, but I think that even that doesn't really deserve the attention it gets. It was an OK to good-ish show, but nothing more than that.

I know trolls and retards calling it "the best anime ever unlike all the moepedoshit made nowadays" annoys people (including myself).

but lets be honest, it's a good anime, a great anime. Great animation, great music, great fights, great designs, great concepts, great characters, great standalone episodes, and great writing.
Not necessarily an anime that showcases the quality of its decade, it's one-of-a-kind. I'd argue that it's not the best anime out there, but it's up there.

>I understand that, but that doesn't make hip hop/rap any less shit.
Cool opinion

pretty much describes all hobby boards at this point

even /tg/ is shitting on every tabletop, it's even getting into the porn board. Why can't people just deal and enjoy the mediums they like?

Cool man, Asians singing gives me nightmares but I still sit through every opening because I like anime. The least you could do is rely on something other than your musical taste to refute a show.

I agree he probably didnt care about Spike leaving him and he probably didnt mind the Julia affair that much, all things considered, but there is a point in him having a rivalry for Spike. The rivalry had to be motivated by something, so either one of those two things or the sum of both did affect him a bit. And i feel its pretty spot on that he was an edgy dude getting mad at everyone losing their edginess. Like you said, he has around 10 lines but many of them imply that.

Anonymity attracts narcissists and the chronically depressed. These types of people are the type who will spend their late nights arguing with complete strangers for YEARS about how people should stuff their hands in a blender for liking hip hop or disliking k-on or using VLC instead of whatever open source media player is in vogue right now

I don't know why I still come here anymore and argue with these literal children.

>I don't know why I still come here anymore and argue with these literal children.
>literal children
user... I hate to say it...

Say it.

How would I put my hands in the blender, when the blender requires me to put the lid on before I can blend anything?
I suppose I could cut off my hands and place them in the blender, but then how would I get the lid on?

I'm starting to feel that way too. You can't even carry on a decent discussion since it's almost impossible to connect 2 of another person's posts togeather.

Anonymity encourages stupid posting because you don't have to carry a reputation. A lot of the things said on Sup Forums, if you said something like that in public or on a forum with usernames you would out yourself as a buffoon that no one wants to talk to.

You tape the button down and go one at a time
Not just that but the sheer size, speed of conversation and high turnover of users only exacerbates all this. Many of the small spinoff chans are mostly anonymous but still manage to develop a decent community. Here's it's just a battle to get the most (You)s by posting the most polarizing opinions and actually taking memes seriously

I think the most important thing to understanding Vicious's motivation is Gren's story during Jupiter Jazz. Ultimately, why did he betray Gren? There's lots of theories as to what's meant by the episode but I've always believed that Gren is meant to represent Spike and Julia (that's why they made him a hermaphrodite).

Consider the speech Gren gives Faye just before the denouement, he says she was afraid of being abandoned so she abandoned everyone first. And we know Vicious was abandoned by both Spike and Julia.

Gud mornin every one I consider m'self an anime patrician. I've watched 3000 anime an I can't believe people like shallow stuff like Bebop. It has boring characters and only gud animation. I hate the episodes where they're just messing around. If it doesn't progress the plot it's shit. I prefer smart anime. Things like Madoka and Yosuga No Sora. Those things are smart and deep an deconstructions. Sure I watch tons of hentai. But you people can't understand the thematic depth of raping 6 year olds with dildos. It opposes the puritanical structure of societ. In conclusion if you don't watch loli hentai and watch shit like Shounen and Seinen action shows you're probably a pleb not worth my time.

Ok, but could he really blame them?

>Here's it's just a battle to get the most (You)s by posting the most polarizing opinions and actually taking memes seriously

I think on a subconscious level a lot of people cooperate on this. A thread will be made, which is intionally obvious bait and it will get hundreds of replies because in order for one person to receive a (you) another person must give it. So they trade their (you)s back and forth. Discussion that doesn't produce rapid fire, polarizing, or memenic opinions are discouraged because it disrupts their attention whoring.

It's addictive to them because it's probably their most real form of socializing and the biggest rush of power they've had.

It's gotten worst over the years. I don't know if anyone remembers it but it used to be that shit-posting was mostly confined to Sup Forums and the other boards were slower and has more deliberate posts. The tone of the shit-posting also was more humerus than spiteful and polarizing. In other words things have gotten much worst over the years.

I think thats looking too much into it. The whole story is just to show Vicious is nihilistic. The exchange is something like "I believed in you" "There was no one to believe". Later Lin dies for Vicious and he says he just died for the Syndicate. And even later he tells Shin to "not end up like Lin", meaning that Vicious considered dying for the rules was futile. Again, he was just pure edge. It sounds like a complain but its actually not, at least for me, at that time it made a good villain and you can still feel it, probably because he is still menacing.

I saw this argument come up a few times and its probably the same guy but I'd like to address it nonetheless.
>Spike is a boring protagonist with commitment issues. He doesn't interact with anyone in any significant way.
This is true, but it is also the entire point of his character. He doesn't interact with anyone because he doesn't see the need. Ever since he fled the gang sans Julia his life stopped. He's not interested in anything the future holds because he's stuck in the past reliving it every day thinking that his time on the bebop is just a dream he'll wake up from any moment. Spike does the absolute minimum to stay alive and nothing more. After spending 4 years with Jet he still actively refused to form any sort of more meaningful connection because of his delusions. And then he goes and gets himself killed in the end, an ending that he has been looking for the whole series.
If Spike had learned to just let go he would have realized the true family he had on board the bebop with the three things he hates: kids, animals, and pushy women. But no, in contrast to Faye and Jet he ended up being consumed by his past and the ending he got was the one he made for himself.
This is why Spike is so apathetic, he thinks he has nothing left to live for but he can't die because it's all a dream to him.

Explaining why a character is boring does not make the anime any less boring. You can write a character that makes sense but that doesn't mean it's going to make for an engaging show.

When Spike is out risking his life or trying to catch the bounty I need a reason to care about why he would succeed or die. If you don't have than the details of the chase or struggle don't matter.

Well said

How should Spike have been to make you care about him?

>tfw still not entirely sure I've seen every episode

Watched them exclusively on Adult Swim and only ever intermittently but the series, from what I can tell, is far from linear with only a very weak over arcing story line.

I'm only assuming I've seen all of them because I've seen some episodes probably 12-15 times.

It's all but outright stated that Spike is never in danger. Early on it is established that he is one of the deadliest people in the galaxy who always comes out on top. The reason you don't care if he risks his life is because you know he isn't, he will survive no matter what. What you should be caring about is the people he meets on the way. Recall the Venus episode where a man steals a very rare flower to cure his sister. Spike is a coincidental conspirator but what really drives the story forward is the mysterious man and his mysterious favor. The stakes grow as we discover what is going on and then the man gets shot at his most triumphant moment. Spike was never really involved in any way, you could almost say hes a self insert for the audience, there to watch what was happening but not really interfere. Having Spike interfere with these people's stories in too dramatic a fashion would greatly undermine the "people have to deal with their personal problems alone" theme that was present throughout the series. The same theme that led to Spike dying even though Jet could have stepped in and saved him.

This is a perfect example of how autists function. Anything not explicitly stated is unnoticed and "if I didn't see it, then it's not there"

>There was no one to believe
That sounds exactly like the sort of thing someone who had just been cucked would say.

says the guy with the picture titled "le nihilist face"

It's a different type on character writing from most anime. It looks like you want a more generic or obvious way for the characters to be written.
A lot of people already find the show engaging. You are the problem here. You don't like the character presentation.

This guy gave something and you still dismissed it. Presenting counterpoints is futile.

k-on is shit