Could you guys pinpoint the exact differences between Goku SSJ1 and SSJ2 because i dont see any

Could you guys pinpoint the exact differences between Goku SSJ1 and SSJ2 because i dont see any.

spikier hair, lighter skin, smaller eyes, and lightning aura.

in the manga ss2 was just a more refined version of ss1 so there really shouldnt be any difference at all.

It gets spikier. You're left with a single main bang. It's just more obvious on Gohan due to his Super Saiyan form being less spiky by default.

The extra lighting sparks that would appear here and there are how I always distinguished them visually.

the difference is toriyama came up with ssj2 when he cared a lot less about making a good series

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Are you insinuating that Toriyama ever cared?
>constantly forgets characters exist
>also forgot that SSJ2 existed
>thinks it's a good thing

The closest thing to a universal difference between SS1 and SS2 is the lightning bolts in the more intense aura (behold, for example, teenage SS2 Gohan's only manga appearance). But that's only in the manga; Toriyama was incredibly consistent with that, but Toei had a hard time picking up on it.

In the anime, you often have to rely on more subtle differences like Goku's hair, or slightly different aura lighting/shading (like you can see in the Goku picture there) to tell which form they were going for.

The lighting aura.

SSJ2 is the most overrated fucking form in all of DBZ
argue me

spikier hair and lightning

At least they introduced it when they could still throw some hype behind something. Nowadays, forms don't seem to have any apparent impact on fights.

Actually, Gohan fought Dabura and Buu at SSJ2. It's just harder to notice because Toriyama didn't bother drawing the effects for it for some reason.

Otherwise, why wouldn't Gohan fight at his absolute full power at that point?

That's because SSJ1 and SSJ2 had way more build up to their debut, so there was already some anticipation. Additionally, they also lived up to the hype as Goku and Gohan absolutely dominated opponents they previously couldn't beat.

All subsequent transformations have had none of that build up or pay off. SSJ3 literally came out of nowhere, and while God and Blue had slightly better buildup, they've been rather unimpressive. Goku loses to Beerus after getting God, and he had to exploit a weakness in Frieza's Golden Form to beat him, otherwise Freiza was straight up stronger than Blue in it's debut.

There's a reason SSJ1 is the most famous form, and why Gohan's most known incarnation is his pre-teen self.

It worked much better when it was Super Saiyan Rage and transformations weren't attained offscreen.

His hair changed color, so what?

there's a stronger contrast with darker shadows, the hair has a 'sharper' shape to it to the point where you wouldn't be surprised if it drew blood, and there's electricty incorporated into the aura.

Gohan going SSJ2 was probably the single most hype moment of DBZ's entire history. Not even the initial SSJ transformation was that great. All other transformation were just trash, like SSJ3 or Gotenks etc.

You're telling me you don't see any differences in the hair between those two pictures? Why is it so difficult for people to tell them apart when they're distinctly different?

The art says otherwise. Toriyama properly drew the lightning for SS2s in every other instance, with no indication that Gohan was "SS2 but didn't look like one." That would be pointlessly confusing when these big visual cues (the lightning bolts) were literally made obvious enough for the target 12-year-old audience. Then just to be safe, he even had Goku explain it.

As for why Gohan wouldn't use SS2... "Gohan" is pretty much synonymous with "incompetence." There doesn't have to be a reason for it beyond that.

naming it super saiyan 2 was misleading and a mistake on toriyama's part compared to how he actually depicts it.
he has it serve more like "100% full power super saiyan" comparable to the buff mode of friea's final form. and 'super saiyan 3' he treats more like an unstable "150% power super saiyan" obtained by overclocking the transformation process far beyond what the unspoken mechanics of the transformation are 'built' to handle

>why wouldn't Gohan fight at his absolute full power at that point?
he'd gone ss2 earlier against Kibito and immediately reverted to the brutality headspace he had against Cell. His own capacity for anger and violence always scared him as a kid and after letting himself indulge in the peaceful life for a good few years its understandable the experience was rather unpleasant for him in hindsight and he was reluctant to freely use a form that he hadn't trained himself to resist the psychological effects it had on him.

Super Saiyan 4 master race reporting in.

Did you miss the part where Goku was busting Gohan's balls for not going SS2

It gets edgier.

fixed

Gee, it's almost like Gohan not training and not living up to his potential and stuff has always been something we keep getting told about all the time.

What happens if Goku goes Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 and then goes even further to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3?

toyopedro stop

one might speculate he simply can't produce enough god ki to even attempt that, which is why he never even tried to against Zamasu or Hit.

it's really not that deep my nigga
this is dragon ball

"he doesn't like getting angry" isn't deep to begin with

That plot point has always bugged me, you'd think he would realize the value of staying in shape after the fourth or fifth galactic threat he and everybody close to him had to gather and defeat.

still too deep

knowing you should do something doesn't prevent you from putting it off until "maybe tomorrow" for three years straight in the absence of a concrete deadline

I realize that, but saving the world is a bit more important than most things.

you toeishills still exist? Even though it's been confirmed the manga is superior?

There is none, and all sources refer to it as an "ascended super saiyan" form. Basically, it's what happens when a saiyan decides to acclimate their body to the super saiyan form rather than using it as a temporary power boost when they're getting their shit pushed in.

Keeping in mind, too, that the "ascended state" came as a result of Goku and Gohan maintaining the form for a year and acclimating their bodies to it.

In the manga the aura is clearly different.

It's even worse in the case of Vegeta. If the lightning sparks weren't there you couldn't tell when he is in SS1 and SS2.

Did Teenaged Gohan's hair get significantly longer as a SS2? Because I swear it's not as long as SS1.

Vegeta has the laziest Super Saiyan transformation. He should at least have his hair spread out, or suddenly get his bangs he had as a child again.

he should get his dad's goatee

Didn't Toriyama originally call super saiyan 3 super saiyan 2 because of that?

Nah he named Super Saiyan 2 when Super Saiyan 3 was first introduced

Lightning sparks and hair is more spikier

Ah right, all I just remember is that he forgot 2 existed.

Stronger aura. Results in his hair being blown up more, electric sparks, and brighter looking skin. Eyes also look more hostile because he doesn't have his emotion under control like he did after mastering SSJ.

not so much existed but he forgot what the design was. while trying to sketch ss2 goku from memory he ended up making the hair way longer. he realized his mistake but like the idea enough that he used it as the basis for designing Goku's new form

Electricity

Electricity in the ki

This is a Super Saiyan.

And this is the Super Saiyan level beyond THAT. You can call it Super Saiyan 2, I guess.


.....And then this.....

nice

...This... Is... to go... even FURTHER BEYOND!

This is Super Saiyan level 3!

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what happened to the 50 consecutive posts of "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" before this one?

What about SS4?

That's not really a reason.

SSJ2 is supposed to be gold rather than bright yellow and the hair stands tall spikier than simply being raised up.

Add to that the user has Ki energy surge with electricity around them whereas before they didn't have that.

Gohan is a better comparison for the elevated state than Goku because you get to see a clear difference between the two visually. Gohan's hair as a Super Saiyan is simply light yellow but turns golden and spiked up when he transforms further.

This
There might be a "true" SS3 that doesn't stress the body like SS grade 3 or whatever is compared to SS2

Nose is reversed

Cumming inside Sakurako!

that sexy jaw change in ss2 tho

u try

These cards are shit now.

We're watching Kai

I didn't understand the point of Super Saiyan 3 outside of the "wow goku has been busy in other world"

hahah nice me.me

Akira Toriyama said that different hair styles make different characters personal appearance, but he has done almost every character has the same hair style. All characters SS3 make the character look the same.

I know he did not GT, but I just want to say that GT Gohan and Goten have the same hair style.

Get your eyes checked?

His outline doesn't change but there are plenty of differences.

ssj2 hair looks so much better than the ssj2 shit they have in DBS

whew

Only Goku, teen Gohan and Caulifla can see difference between SS1 and SS2. Especially teen Gohan.

in short:
goku shows it exists but, being on borrowed time, can't do much with it
then gotenks gets it and actually wins against Buu after a bit of faffing around. but this is used to show that the amount of power required to actually kill buu is several magnitudes higher than the amount of power required to beat him into literal pulp
then elder kai shows up and says super saiyan forms are a bunch of flashy nonsense, and that if they spent more time training properly they wouldn't even need to use it. basically saying that both goku and gotenks wasted their precious training time working towards ss3. if they'd just focused on improving their normal form they'd have been powerful enough to content with buu without wasting their limited time alive/fused sustaining hairy bullshit.
basically toriyama poking fun at how for the past several years the saiyans have winning their battles only thanks to a massive handicap in their favor. they tried to minmax too hard and wound up locking themselves in a bad end, so now it falls to deus ex z-sword to provide an out for them via just magically making gohan stronger
but toriyama quickly realized that would be a huge cop-out if it actually worked, an instead had buu eat gohan and steal his magic bullshit powerup to raise the stakes even more.

the running idea of the buu arc is that this ancient monstrosity can just either no-sell or outmaneuver all the usual battlemanga tropes that normally succeed in killing the big bad. using a dangerous transformation you know will kill you. the hero's rival sacrificing himself after the hero has died. the next generation combining their powers. literal divine intervention. the hero and his rival coming back from the dead, joining forces, and using their brains for once to cut off the source of the big bad's power. the one tiny speck of good in the villain becoming a seperate entity and fighting back against it. the hero resorting to the power of hope and friendship. the rival begging people please, for the love of god, hand over that power of friendship. still not working.
and then here's satan, the gag character, who saves the day by turning the whole situation into a joke and convincing his idiot adoring fans that HE is somehow the one fighting majin fucking boo. the only way to win against the embodiment of the unreasonably invincible battlemanga archvillain was to stop taking this battlemanga so seriously and re-embrace its underlying nature as a gag manga. satan's plea works because it makes the scenario funny, and its funny because it works.

Dunno if it was in the manga but that scene with Satan actually dodging Buu's attacks while begging for his life and Goky being utterly shocked fits perfectly with that idea.

this is incredibly good

The various SSJ forms are all basically the same thing. 2 is just accessing more latent potential, so visually it's just a sharper looking version of 1. SS3 is just artificially accelerating the form even more, at the cost of way more stamina consumption.

Even at the end of the Buu Saga, Toriyama had said they had hit their physical limits and the goal would be to no longer need the SSJ forms at all. SS3 is fairly pointless now, and even was when it was introduced. SS2 doesn't really bring out all that much anymore for the additional stamina you lose, and so on.

But ultimately, they're all the same form, and even had no numerical names until well into the Buu Saga. SS2 was just a visual thing for Gohan's design, specifically, to show he'd gone past his limitations. It was never really meant to be used on anyone else, because it was just a visual change to one character model.

Alternatively, this is all a bunch of horsecrap Toriyama wrote so he could have an excuse to draw undetailed shit.

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