redpill me please
Holocaust
Mason Lewis
Other urls found in this thread:
phdn.org
en.wikipedia.org
imdb.com
twitter.com
Ayden Myers
whoops, gotta add content
You all doubt the 6 gorilion, but why so? Can i have some infographics?
Jordan Moore
My mother was firebombed 6 times at Dresden. Remember the 200,000!
Levi Robinson
Oh, hello /his/
Levi Smith
thanks
Henry Miller
Death camps were located in the General Government due to the fact that these lands had the highest number of jews
It was cheaper for Krautniggers to build deathcamps in Poland, rather than in Austria or Netherlands
That way they would not have to transport jews all over the reich
Carson Nguyen
Mason Garcia
Leo White
Gabriel Nguyen
Eli Wilson
Jaxson Davis
You are late to the party, anaon
I don't think there are any holocaust deniers left on Sup Forums because they keep getting BTFo'd by facts.
they do turn up with crappy tired memes sometimes - but they lose every time
Kayden Scott
John Ramirez
Jose Sullivan
what is this supposed to show?
Chase Bailey
Gavin Williams
That the number has constantly changed for almost 50 years, yet the total always remained at 6 million gassed kikes.
Angel Campbell
6 million weren't gassed&cremated. Around 6 million were killed. There is a clear difference.
Also picture related
Elijah Nguyen
hmmmmmmm
Gabriel Morris
Zachary Jones
Testimonies are orientational.
Joseph Diaz
Joshua Ross
Grayson Edwards
Here's the official source that Holocaust historians use to justify that absurd oven capacity.
William Perez
ah, someone who does not know the facts then
no one has ever claimed (or at least no historian or investigator) that 6 million were cremated.
no one has claimed six million were cremated at Auschwitz (outside Soviet propaganda)
no one has ever said that Auschwitz had only 4 ovens or 4 oven openings (apart from deniers who have not checked their facts)
auschwitz had 56 muffles (openings in multiple opening furnaces)
they could burn 4756 corpses a day, according to the camp authorities adn the manufacturers.
they could do this on a syustained basis - this allowed time for maintenance.
this is welldocumented
your made up figures are just made up
if you really want a capacity of a modern crematory oven for animal carcasses, try 3 tonnes in one hour - that is about forty people my size.
so 3,480 a day for four of them ( or 53,000 per day for 56 of them)
the auschwitz camp not only had capacity to burn over a million adn half per year (historical fact) but they only burned about 1.5 million in four years.
mind you they had planned on building a bigger crematorium that could burn even more, because they expected to get more to burn. But the war turned against them.
Sebastian Sullivan
The 5-6 million figure was given by Nazis themselves.
The number of Jews worldwide fell by around 5,5 million between 1939 and 1945.
Also these estimations in camps were number of PEOPLE not solely Jews. The early estimations are by Soviets who calcualated it based on crematorium capacities.
Aiden Williams
daily reminder your numbers numbers aren't from historians.
The 9 million gambit in Night and Fog is a pure invention by Robert Faurisson from the beginning of the 1990s, that has been fully debunked in 2002 (in french), here: phdn.org
What must be underlined is that the famous "decreasing" list of Auschwitz death tolls (that is presented on e.g. codoh) is a Faurisson manipulation: most figures are NOT from historians' studies and have no historical value. Furthermore, they are displayed not in chronological order but in decreasing order, so as to give the reader the feeling that no serious toll was ever given and that it always kept going down. Sources are willingly given in evasive ways in order to make any verification difficult, if not impossible. The list has evolved and been modified, enriched with time, but it's a big fraud.
For example, the 8 and 7 million figure stem from the same book, authored by Eugene Aroneanu who, in 1945, gathered in the heat of the war's end some data and testimonies in a simple, not scholarly at all, way: Camps de concentration (Office français d'édition, 1945). Aroneanu purports to cite an official report from the O.R.C.G (Office de recherches des crimes de guerre) for the 8 million figure, but that report is nowhere to be found and that figure has never been used by anyone else anywhere else. So NO, it's not the "French War Crime Research Office, doc 31", as the Faurisson list says, that gives that figure, but rather Aroneanu, allegedly from a source that nobody has ever been able to check.
Elijah Lee
The post continues with the 7 million figure also attributed to the "French War Crime Research Office". That's also a lie. It's again taken from Eugene Aroneanu's little book. It stems from a witness, Raphaël Feigelson, who is mentioned only once, only there to say that "according to Raphaël Feigelson there were 7 million victims". So of course, this figure is NOT from the "French War Crime Research Office". In both cases, deniers fail to cite the proper source (Aroneanu) and do not provide any way to verify (but unfortunately for the denier morons, Gilles Karmasyn from phdn did!)
The six millions figure is NOT in Nyiszli's book (there is the classical 4 million figure though). The 6 million figure attributed to Nyiszli is in fact due to his translator (to french) Tibère Kremer, who put up this number (without source or even qualification) in a preface to the first appearance of Nyiszli's story in french in 1951, in the french periodical, Les Temps Modernes («S.S. Obersturmführer Docteur Mengele. Journal d'un médecin déporté au crématorium d'Auschwitz», Les Temps Modernes, mars 1951, no 65). This number disappears from the first edition as a book, in 1961 (Médecin à Auschwitz: souvenirs d'un médecin déporté, Juillard), even though Kremer provides a preface to that edition as well. Kremer, though he was in the French Resistance, had no particular qualification to be able to properly estimate a death toll for Auschwitz. So this figure is like most of the others in the list: it has no significance within Auschwitz historiography, no impact at all and Nyiszli should of course not be held responsible for it.
Jayden Collins
The 5 million figure from Le Monde in 1978 is mentioned in a small insert in an article about the 35th birthday of the Warsaw ghetto uprising. Auschwitz is not even the subject of that insert, the figure is merely part of a sentence without source. It's bad journalism and has absolutely NO significance or impact on the actual historiography regarding Auschwitz's death toll. More than that: the alleged "1,433,000" figure from french newspaper Le Monde in 1989 is a lie. Le Monde never wrote there were 1,433,000 victims in Auschwitz. Another example of deniers being morons who can easily be debunked.
In fact it's easy to see that NONE of the figures above 4 million have any significance or impact. They were never uttered by historians, never used by historians, even never used at all anywhere else, outside the source they're taken from (if it's not a complete hoax source, as with the 9 million in night and fog, as claimed by Faurisson).
Figures taken from survivors have of course not much value since they were not in a position to know precise numbers, only to guess the scale of the murder. In fact if you take out witnesses, journalists and non-historians, what emerges is a very unsurprising distribution between one and two million (with anomalies that are well known and studied by Pressac, Meyer, and the infamous 4 million).
Very interestingly, the deniers who love Hoess fail to mention his main, most important, most valuable evaluation of the Auschwitz death toll, the one he wrote in his memoirs (from 1946!): 1,13 million.
Yet again an exhaustive and seemingly damning list gets torn apart with ridiculous ease by phdn scholar Gilles Karmasyn, proving deniers are nothing but a charade-ridden bunch of incompetent falsifiers.
Andrew Robinson
The last figure lists the number of official deaths (as recorded by Nazi clerks) from the camp inmate population, in the camp death books. Keep in mind all the children, infants with mothers, sick, cripples, elderly and others who didn't make the cut during the Selektion process right off the train ramp were never admitted into the camp in the first place and were instead marched off along the train tracks toward the Crematoria buildings, where the "showers", aka the gas chambers were - they make up the bulk of Auschwitz's 1.1 million death toll. They never appear in any of the camp's "Sterbebücher" further discussed here: imgur.com/iDM1rP3
These death certificate books are incomplete – we only have about two years of books – and only cover Auschwitz I – not the two larger camps Auschwitz II and Auschwitz Birkenau (III). We have testimony from one of the people who wrote the books (recorded decades before the books became available) that he forged the causes of death – writing 2herat failure” for all those executed or murdered. After a while he was told to use something else because it was beginning to look suspicious – and indeed almost 40,000 are recorded as having heart failure – almost all young men. A statistical anomaly.
No one has ever claimed that these figures are complete, or that they cover all the camps at Auschwitz, or that the totals are correct, or that the grand total given is in any way accurate.
David Scott
If it was a hoax, why would they revise the figure? Revising the figure downwards proves they are trying to be honest and accurate.
Most of the items listed are not actually "changes", but a spread of estimates from different
>1,250,000 In 1985, historian Raul Hilberg arrived at this figure in his book, “The Destruction of the European Jews.” According to Hilberg, of those dead, some 1,000,000 were Jews.
Hilberg was using this figure from the mid 1950's, as were all other historians (serious researchers had established this at the one to two million figure by 1950)
yes that book did not get published until the 1980's but he, and every other serious researcher had settled the figure thirty years before.
the fact that journalists, politicians and other non experts used the wrong figures is neither surprising nor significant.
Eli Powell
What is striking about the vast volumes of testimony about the Holocaust is that so little of it is from independent third parties corroborating the survivors' stories.
Levi Lopez
this is why i come here
holy fucking shit
Matthew Morgan
no that is no the source that historians use
Camden Butler
Deborah Lipstadt and Martin Gilbert claimed 4 million were gassed at Auschwitz. Later, Lipstadt sued Irving for "misrepresenting facts". Ironic, huh? :)
Camden Allen
you know there were 5 crematoria at Auschwitz? each with multiple ovens? the first, the small one reconstructed in part by the soviets, with only two ovens, was quickly supplemented both by burning pits and then much larger crematoria - which where later demolished by the nazis to hide the attached gas chambers
the ruins are still there, and the blueprints and the manufacturers documents.
Eli Brooks
>Lipstadt sued Irving for "misrepresenting facts"
Source?
Cameron Ward
She's sourced by Raul Hilberg. Raul actually picks whatever weird source he can find. He literally picks completely stupid sources about 1 million dead at Majdanec to source separate information, lol.
Anthony Cooper
jews stolen death toll
Brody Thomas
My grandfather was a Jew from Ukraine, and he was killed by the Nazis. The multi-million Jewish population of Poland, Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic states was almost completely destroyed, this is proved by researchers and historians. Only idiots like you deny the Holocaust.
Justin Jenkins
the continuous feed oven was not built - but it was designed for Auschwitz because they needed more capacity - over 4,000 a day was not enough...
Sebastian Martin
James Wood
more desperate by the day.
Cameron Ramirez
Thanks for the effort, Frenchbro. I've seen enough Holocaust shenanigans to believe that theres one or more somethings fucky about the whole thing, but it is also good to see bullshit getting called out for being bullshit.
Landon King
you mean you have not read the diaries of the camp doctor, or the testimony of the guards - including the recently convicted Oskar Groening?
also, why would there be a large amount of "independent" testimony - do you think they let in "independent" witnesses to watch the mass murders?
Ayden Morgan
> filed in an English court by the British author David Irving in 1996
Why are you making shit up?
Jaxson Murphy
>including the recently convicted Oskar Groening
everyday another 5000000 gorllion people were found to be killed. it is all so tiresome.
Chase Sanders
Was he killed in a concentration camp?
Isaiah Foster
Joshua Cook
holocaust happened and its good
Sebastian Smith
And?
Andrew Powell
your picture is misleading - the american gas chambers are for single persons to be gassed as quickly as possible - so they die fast, so it is not "cruel ans unusual punishment"
also built to certain safety standards that the nazis did not have to comply with.
if you look at the delousing rooms (which holocaust deniers do not deny were filled with cyanide gas at high concentrations for long periods) they often had wooden doors sealed only with felt strips.
liek the doors in the bottom row of your picture.
but unlike the door on the left in your picture - the delousing rooms did not have metal grills over the inspection ports to stop the people inside from breaking the glass while trying to get out...
of course the door on the right at the bottom is not a gas chamber door, nor has anyone (other than strawman building deniers) ever said it was
Angel Morris
russian scum killed more of their own people than the nazis did while committing actual genocides
it's only a shame hitler didn't actually kill 6 million jews
Robert Bennett
yes, you are right it is total shit - wrong numbers that make no sense at all.
isn't it sad how shit tier the deniers arguments are?
Gavin Clark
The Jew is cropped out in a newspapers as it was deemed too shocking by the editors.The original picture has the standing Jew.
The wooden door is only in Krema I because it was converted to an air-raid shelter and there was also a heavy wooden door in the first gassing in block 11. So summed up gas chambers had gas-tight steel doors.4
Adam Myers
The following document shows 44 lamps (Kugel-Lampen), 9 faucets/spigots (Zapfhähne), 14 shower heads (Brausen) and 1 gas tight door (Gasdichte Tür, in handwriting) delivered to Krematorium III.
At the top left, we see the building being inventoried, "Krematorium III," also known as "KGL 30a." Below that, the first room listed ("Raum 1") has been written in as "Leichenkeller 1," which literally means "morgue 1." This is the homicidal gassing chamber, and this is where the showers and door were installed
The handwriting is hard to read; the III might look like a II, but this document is reproduced in Pressac, Jean Claude, Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York, 1989, p. 432. Its source is given as Auschwitz State Museum Archive reference BW 30/43, p. 24.
Wait a minute...showerheads? For a morgue???? For a carburetion room??? For an air-raid shelter??? For a delousing/fumigation chamber??
And if they were for genuine showers, why a gas-tight door???
Ayden Watson
This photo scan showing the order of 3 gas-tight doors for worksite 30b (Krematorium IV), and 30c (Krematorium V) is taken from Jean-Claude Pressac's "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers"
Note how:
"We remind you of an additional order from 6.3.43 for the shipment of a gas door 100/192 for morgue 1 of Krematorium III, which should of of the same make as the cellar door of the adjacent Krematorium II, [namely] with a spy-hole of double 8 millimeter glass and gas-tight seal. This order is particularly urgent.' Signed, SS Major Bischoff."
mentions the one gas-tight door for morgue 1 of Krematorium III we were talking about earlier, and how this is urgent, and also proves how by March 31st, 1943, Krematorium II was already equipped with a gas-tight door.
Aiden Carter
Note that Holocaust deniers almost always avoid documents from nazis themselves, they can't refute facts.
"Beschränkte, Idioten, Krüppel und kranke Menschen müssen in kürzester Zeit durch Liquidation zur Entlastung des Lagers aus demselben entfernt werden. Diese Maßnahme findet aber insofern eine Erschwerung, da nach Anweisung des RSHA entgegen der bei den Juden angewendeten Maßnahme, Polen eines natürlichen Todes sterben müssen."
"Imbeciles, idiots, cripples and sick people must be removed from the camp as soon as possible by liquidation to unburden it. But this measure has insofar complications as, according to RSHA order, contrary to the measure applied on the Jews, Poles must die from natural causes."
Joshua Powell
Camden Peterson
Dylan Jenkins
This document, dated March 26, 1942 is about a delay in the manufacture and delivery of "special vans" that require a modification time of 8 - 14 days each before they can be used, and how one such van can be arranged for Mauthausen concentration camp (which by the way also had and still has a gas chamber one can visit today; at least 3,000 people are said to have been gassed while the camp and Gusen subcamps' total death toll approaches 100,000).
SS-Standartenführer Walter Rauff also asks for a delivery of bottled CO or other "aids" to "perform" the duty.
Nicholas Stewart
Treblinka, Majdanek, Bełżec, and Auschwitz are the big camps where they killed hundreds of thousands of Jews. The other camps were just internment camps.
This is known by the entire mainstream, just not by idiot Americans with no historical education.
And, all the Jews in Poland are gone. You'd think, if the Holocaust didn't happen, they'd be still there, or at least haggling for their property.
Evan Ortiz
>but unlike the door on the left in your picture - the delousing rooms did not have metal grills over the inspection ports to stop the people inside from breaking the glass while trying to get out...
either you chose not to show picture of said door to beg the question and launch a psychological battle, or you don't have one. like
oy vey
Andrew Johnson
There were many inmates in the camps who were not Jews. What did they see? Does it corroborate the survivors' testimony?
William Wright
your use of the term "official" is incorrect.
And yes various historians have various sources - but there is no "official" story nor "official sources"
and yes, Hilberg is human and has not got everything correct - wow, what a surprise.
that is why history takes a long time to write adn gets revised. but the offical documents -the ones the nzi officials issued - say that Auschwitz had over fifty muffles working, and they could burn over 4,000 bodies a day.
you have to remember that many of those bodies were small children, and that they did not have to burn them one at a time and wait til the oven cooled and clean out the ashed carefully and box them in a nice urn. they threw them in two or three at a time, burned the flesh off (about 20 to 30 minutes) and then had room to throw in more - the bones sintered down over the next few hours as each corpse was thrown in on top.
Connor Peterson
they were all antisemites
Jason Morales
yes the deniers do get more desperate don't they
sad they have no arguments
Matthew Rivera
>lets use (((fair))) numbers and just disregard the facts
>but if we consider estimates based on holohoax numbers and cite false holohoaxer explanations of unreadable document screnshots that dont say anything like that like facts the holohoax numbers are suddenly feasible in unreaslistic calculations
>post war citiations
>literally some strawman argument
top kike
Elijah Campbell
your claim is six million died. good luck. no amount of "newly found" documents nor documents cited after 1950 are going to help you.
some jews likely died, you overexaggerated, and now you are trying to save yourself from your lies.
but the thing about crying wolf...
Jonathan Robinson
so to make this simple, list all of your claims about the holocaust. tell us EXACTLY what you think you are trying to prove.
but then again, that will take all the thunder out of your circular arguments.
Chase James
The sources are right there, sweetie.
Henry Butler
Question for the troglodyte skinheads: Why would Hitler gas retards in T4 Aktion but not jews kn auschwitz ?
Check mate, neonazis.
Elijah Campbell
yes. In fact you know many who were gassed or shot were soviet PoWs, Gypsies adn of course others - Jehovah's witnesses, gays, comminists, etc.
the testimony across all groups is consistent.
and of course there are also stupid stories, rumors adn outright lies to lick though.
but the core of the account for Auschwitz is that it started as a labour camp and then grew (from 15,000 to nearly 200,000 slave labourers) and that in the later stages they selected the fit for slave labour at the rail head, and the rest went for a "shower"
earlier experiments with gas were tried in the little bunker at crematorium 1, but it was not well laid out for the job. So they used two farm houses with the windows bricked up for while (with burning pits for the bodies) until they built the Crematorium 2-5 at the rail head at Birkenau.
that is why when Anne Frank arrived she and all the fit adults (over fifteen years of age) about 400 people, went into the labour camp, and the children under fifteen and the old and the not so fit were gassed. 79 kids, over 500 people from that train
Levi Turner
Lol, SHE made public claims that he wasn't a real historian and basically "lied about the Holocaust". He sued her and he lost in court because the court decided that he "misrepresented facts about the Holocaust". Ironic coming from Lipstadt. :)
Christian Anderson
Here is the redpill you are looking for.
Did six million = sex million? Yes. They straped boys to masturbation machines and forced them to orgasm or die. They took Jewish women and forced them to have sex with German men and women.
Lucas Kelly
Connor Jenkins
>b-but what if I just disregard your entire point and smuggly pretend its true after all
Brandon Campbell
Brayden Sanchez
what else did you expect from a kike, they unironcally think this shit is clever debating lmao.
Isaiah Wright
Leo Jenkins
>the testimony across all groups is consistent.
>of course except for all that are incosistent
hahaha
Charles Barnes
Assertions are irrelevant, sweetie. Facts are what matter, not your feelings.
Alexander Rodriguez
Thomas Turner
...
Angel Howard
Daniel Roberts
Nathan Ross
between 5.1 and 6 million jews died in europe (adn eastern europe) during the war.
we have lists from the Einsatzgruppen detailing executing jews in teh east on a daily basis, to total of over 1.5 million.
not all were killed by germans - the locals helped out.
they shot many, and they used "gas vans" for which we have the orders and specifications and the comments about their use from the operators and the manufacturers.
3 million jews from Poland did not survive the war - they were in ghettos, and camps, often as slave labour camps, but also they were executed en mass by shooting and gassing.
exhaust gas was used in some places, Zyklon B pesticide as a source of cyanide gas in others.
about half a million other jews came from Hungary and all over Europe to Auschwitz and Treblinka and sobibor and Chelmno. Including 76,000 from France, of whom only 2,000 survived the war
many were gassed on arrival (Treblinka was a small camp with no accommodation at which people were murdered on arrival) Auschwitz was a huge slave labour camp that took in some slaves, but killed the rest.
that accounts for about 5 million.
the rest - jews from all over europe were hunted down and sent to camps or killed on the spot. - they killed them in Yugoslavia and romania as well, but the camp system was a huge labour resource. they marched many prisoners away from the advancing allies from the camps, and many thousands died on the marches.
I think the 5.5 million figure is probably about right.
Matthew Torres
bigger version for those with weak eyes
Jack Barnes
Jaxson Jenkins
>strawman argument
is one that a person makes when they avoid the argument made by their opponent by constructing an argument their opponent does not make,and attacking it.
what strawman argument is presented here?
deniers say it could not be done - that the ovens could only burn one body every eight hours - or other shit - we do not have to make strawman arguments - they provide really shitty arguments all the time.
Nathaniel Cook
Already talked about this... see The picture in the newspaper is edited, you can ask them yourself, go ahead send an e-mail.
Asher Wood
>From 1941 the einsatzgruppen murdered more than one million people, mostly civilian Jews and other minorities.
so sadly, you are making my point. each of your "estimates" is well over exaggerated to reach as close to 6 million as possible. not to mention you neglect to mention that unit killed communists. my understanding is you jews like to separate the two.
and 3 million jews could not be found after the war. tell me how many hid and/or ran and converted.
next you are going to tell me more jews than witches died in the spanish inquisition.
Easton Thomas
AGAIN??? is this some kind of Groundhog Day?
Nathaniel Perry
>ask the jews media
absolutely no self awareness lmao.
>I'm not a slut, i just like to fuck a lot of men
>t. every jewess ever
this level of self denial.
Oliver Foster
anyone who deals with eyewitness testimony knows that a proportion is wrong. indeed people make shit up (especially after trauma - PTSD victims tell fantastic stories to account for their injuries sometimes that are just pure fiction)
also any group that shares stories is likely to start embellishing them - they claim things happened to them that happened to others, and things become exaggerated. (you do this with your friends)
so you have to look at what is impossible, and take that out. then look at what seems outrageous and see if you can back it up. and so on - and the plausible, which can be accorded with documentary evidence - that you can consider as potentially helpful. especially if it is rich in detail that is confirmed by documents or archaeology, and if such sources confirm other similarly well confirmed sources.
Alzheimer victims babbling about eagles and bears fifty years later, you discount.
Sonderkommando jsut after being liberated describing how a crematory oven works, which is exactly in accord with nazi archive documents from the manufacturers and accounts from the guards and prisoners at other camps who used similar ovens - that you can credit as good testimony.
Camden King
ah the Irish living in France strikes again! tremble Holohoax deniers
David Cox
just enjoy the practice, these kikes are fighting for their lives so they can prep you for normies.
Adrian Rogers
Jordan Thompson
Jackson Mitchell