Post your favorite deconstruction animes. I'll start

Post your favorite deconstruction animes. I'll start.

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Better deconstruction.

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Cute girls working in a demolition company anime when

Nope. Especially not Rebellion.

I hate how this is started to be considered its own genre.

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It's not. Madoka isn't even a deconstruction, the only people who see it that way are people who think literally every magical girl show is Sailor Moon but haven't even seen that one

I never said that Madoka was actually one, just that people are bending over backwards to find deconstructions in everything.

Because watching something that's a "deconstruction" makes people feel smarter I guess.

w-what is it deconstructing? Or is this a meem now?

It's been a meme since evangelion

>animes

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>not a single deconstruction in this thread

>not getting a joke

Where you actually expecting serious recommendations or something?

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Can someone please define whats a deconstruction anime for me? From what i see people talk about it means "is the thing you alwys see, but viewed in a more "realistic" manner " whatever that means.

It means to subvert tropes. You expect the magical girl to be happy, you expect Shinji to love having a mecha, etc. It also points out any logic flaws which is why they're usually so cynical.

So what makes a lot of popular anime (Madoka and Evangelion) not deconstructions but everyone unanimously agrees that Watchmen is a deconstruction? Does it just mean Watchmen is better than all anime that actually try to be deconstruction but aren't?

What is a deconstruction?

But that's just subversion.

It's literally just a pretentious buzzword. Please do not take it so seriously.

I'm not a fan of that word but this movie breaks with fairy tales and the princess cliche.

+1

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deconstruction of lovers

>deconstruction
what did they mean by this?

Subversive

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>deconstruction
Fuck you.

Your bait is shit and so are you

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I think that's right. So Madoka is not a deconstruction because it's just a twist, Madoka's darkness isn't anything you'd expect from the tropes of mahou shoujo. The perfect deconstruction would make you think non deconstructed works are unrealistic or have a stupid story progression or something.

It's amazing how this show got so close to being another Madoka but backpedaled in the very last moment.

I don't know about "deconstructions", but what you posted is my favorite anime.

I haven't seen it, but from what I've read would Dai Guard be considered a deconstruction of the mecha genre?

People tend to define deconstruction as "something that takes common tropes and leads them to their natural conclusion", but whenever someone points out why Madoka has deconstructive aspects, everyone just replies with "muh Derrida", and that it's too complicated to explain in a Sup Forums post.

Madoka may have some deconstructive aspects to the consequences for the characters when it comes to the fighting, so maybe it's right. But a lot of the dark elements are in no way deconstructiony, for example the evil mascot, soul removal, transformation into witches, none of these elements are elements of deconstruction. When analyzing Madoka as a deconstruction one should focus only on the characters, and only the aspects that are not connected to the dark themes caused by special concepts "unique" to the series.

It did a better job at making me care about its characters than Madoka did, though.

The characters feel way too artificial. If you can't do character writing it's better to focus on plot and themes than cramming in multiple episodes of characters interacting in cringeworthy ways

Does the reason anyone at all consider this a deconstruction of monster raising shows solely stem from it being edgy as fuck and by Chiaki Konaka?

At most, you can get away with "child soldiers become emotional wrecks" and "love and hope isn't going to solve the world's problems*", but defining the whole work around this is arbitrary.

*except when it does at least make significant progress towards improvement

I thought they were decent. Their interactions in the slice of life episodes are typical of their archetypes, but the reveal of that other girl who got completely crippled by the Mankai brought an interesting change in the dynamic between them.

The ending did disappoint me, anyway. It felt like they wrote a dark story but forgot it was supposed to have a happy ending, so they threw one in there even if it makes no sense and has no explanation to how it happened.

>Hunter x Hunter is a deconstruction
is there people that unirocally believe this? i read it until the York Shin arc and it seemed like a pretty standard shounen to me.

That's not what a deconstruction is, god damn it. Here is what a deconstruction sets out to accomplish:

In any genre, there are a certain set of assumptions or conditions that the audience is asked to just take at face value, without considering the implications of these conditions being true. A deconstruction seeks to explore these (usually unstated/implicit) conditions to their logical conclusion to show their effect on the narrative. Among the big poster children for deconstructing shit here in the West is Watchmen. Watchmen is a deconstruction of capeshit because it takes to the logical conclusion several ideas that capeshit stories conventionally just ask you to ignore:
>People who run around in capes beating up criminals for fun probably have a myriad of psychological issues that fuck up their personal lives.
>The governments of the world aren't going to sit by and watch as vigilantes start wholesale replacing police departments all over the country. The appearance of literal supermen WILL fuck up the geopolitical balance, especially in times like the Cold War which relied on brinkmanship and MAD for peace.
>A superman-like figure will inevitably start feeling distanced from the ants that are humanity, and this will lead to problems.

In short, a deconstruction plays the "usual" tropes of its genre completely straight, but doesn't shy away from ignoring the potential fallout/consequences of playing said tropes completely straight.

A show like Madoka IS NOT, AND NEVER WILL BE a deconstruction. Why? It brings a lot of grimdark rules into its setting that aren't conventional in the magical girl genre, for the purposes of creating drama and tension. The whole "dude you're a zombie lmao" and "I forgot to mention that magical girls become witches lol." That's not the job of a deconstruction to do this.

What does this make a show like Madoka? An unusually dark take on the genre. Nothing more, nothing less. NOT a deconstruction.

People refer to the Chimera Ant arc when they say that. I don't think it's a deconstruction though.

but Madoka did end up using love and hope to solve everyone's problems

Is tvtropes solely responsible for people misusing deconstruction?

HxH is a well executed fighting shounen.

>well executed

Things are allowed to have deconstructive elements without being deconstructions on the whole, in much the same way that an action movie can have a touch of horror or romantic elements, but still be at its core an action movie. As says, what separates Madoka from being a deconstruction is its inclusion of lots of setting pieces that a deconstruction wouldn't have. Yeah, the meguca get sad, but they do so in the context of a setting rigged especially to make them despair as quickly and often as possible.

The only anime that is a deconstruction is Utena

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Underrated Post 10/10 would put a bomb in it.

Serious question.

What I've understood as a deconstruction is something that takes the established elements from some common theme, and then twists and reuses them in ways where the result contrary to the spirit of the theme, but cannot be said to be anything completely new in itself.

By this definition, Madoka would be a deconstruction. So would Evangelion, etc. What have I misunderstood?

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Thank you. was an especially lucid answer, and actually makes perfect sense. I will refer to this from now on.

This

For Madoka to be a deconstruction it would need to take elements found in your typical magical girl anime and show the consequences of them, but it doesn't do this, it just adds darker elements which don't even exist in your typical girl anime.

Was that the atrociously edgy magical girl show from like two seasons ago with just gratiutous amounts of violence for the sake of it? Where there are only so many 'slots' for magical girls or something?

Is there such a thing as a magical girl costume that's too lewd?

While I could agree it's not a deconstruction based on your definition, it is definitely a subversion. Madoka takes the innocent assumptions of the genre and subverts them by applying more cynical reasoning behind the existence of the tropes.

In a way, it's applying real-world logic to the setting, only backwards from a deconstruction. Deconstructions apply genre tropes to the real world, subversions create a world to support the tropes in a way that is counter to the expectations of the genre.

What real world logic? "Teen girls mood swing so hard they reverse entropy?"

You misunderstand. I don't mean 'real world reasoning' in the sense that it is a reason that would exist in the real world. I mean it in that the process for reasoning applied to the setting is the same kind of process you would have in the real world.

Madoka operates on a more grounded system of reasoning. They choose little girls because they want MG's that are emotionally unstable so that they'll fight hard then eventually crack under the pressure. They don't really care about the long term plan because they'll turn into witches anyways. They can fight so hard because their bodies are artificial. Magical Girls have 'trinkets' to transform because there needs to be a durable core as their phylactery. They need them to kill witches because it gives the Incubators something they want. In the setting as described the reasoning is sound.

So does this mean Watchmen >>>>all anime? I don't think a single anime which is touted as a deconstruction actually even does that or comes close.

>it's another "it's a deconstruction therefore it's automatically good" episode
So just what WAS Aragon's tax policy?

Watchmen isn't only good cause it's deconstruction, it being grimdarker actually makes sense and is expanded upon. Stuff like Eva or Madoka being grimdark is just window dressing to trick people into thinking they're watching mature shit.

What's up with this stupid meme where people constantly compare Madoka and EVA and try to force franchise wars between them?

naruto deconstructed itself and built itself back into a pile of shit

Evangelion is an actual deconstruction, though. It is just also a subversion. It provides subversive reasons behind the existence of Giant Robots, but it deconstructs things like:
>What would it be like if children had to pilot them?
>How would humanity react to being attacked by giant monsters?
Reminder that they didn't bring out EVA's until after they tried using nukes. The government basically threw up their hands and told Gendo to do whatever he wanted as long as it worked.
>What kind of people would put children into robots to fight giant monsters?

Watch Utena

Yeah.
It's written by people who hate the genre they are writing for and think they're too good for them and written for people who don't like the genre and think they're too god for them.

Rarely do you get one that is saying something of any real worth or is written by somone who loves the genre it's deconstructing

OPM is one.
UBW is another.

>well executed
O
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How is UBW a deconstruction

It's not a deconstruction in and of itself, but shirou's interaction with archer and shirou himself is a deconstruction of the shounen hero.

If you look at it as a deconstruction of a basic shounen where the hero is actually a misguided and broken weakling then it becomes far better then it has any right to be.

The deconstruction meme is an easy writting way, nothing more, nothing less.

This is way harder to write something good about mainstream/simple ideas.
It's too easy to take an already known genre and "deconstruct" it. You have nothing to do but apply simple math and people look at you as if you were the new Anno.

You can play that game with Madoka too.
>What would it be like to have little girls fight monsters?
>What kind of creature would fulfill any wish without expecting anything in return?

>animes
Fuck off.

>What kind of creature would fulfill any wish without expecting anything in return?
A benevolent one, in the case of bog standard magical girl anime. Asking this question isn't automatically a deconstruction if there's already a ready-made answer that foils it.

GOD
THANK YOU!

Everyone is so fucking hard up to be the next navel gazing fucktard charmer that no one has any fucking concept as to how to deliver the stuff that people fucking love.

The next time someone says something is "generic" then ask them "Is it good".
If they can't answer that or give a dismissive reaction or answer then disregard them and their bullshit thinking.

And now that I think about it.
Yes, it's cynical as fuck to think like that. To think of someone who wants to be a classic shounen hero in "the real world" would be broken on some level.
It CAN be positive and hopeful and use a nonbroken person to show someone who wants to do that.
I just liked UBW.

Samurai Flamenco acutally did something similar. It's actually really really good if you don't actually at any point EVER get INTO it.
If you watch it objectively and logically it's a fun little thing.

I thought SamFlam was supposed to be a meme. Still a great show though, reminds me of Grant Morrison if he wrote an anime.