Win the 4th Holy Grail War as Kayneth

You're stuck with Diarmuid
You start right after the battles in the harbor
You do not know anything Kayneth doesn't know (enemy abilities/location/personalities, etc)

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play safer, dont make myself such an obvious target

get that "chivalry" crap out of lancers head

use his spear for hit and runs and weaken enemy teams for lancelot

then use his compatibility with lancelot to win

Sit down with Diarmuid and tell him if he doesn't drop his honor bullshit I'm going to use a Command Seal to make him. Next, try to distance myself from my wife as much as possible. This is a war and getting too attached to her will just be a liability to me. Preferably put her on an airplane and send her off to some far west country. Now that it's just me and Diarmuid, don't send him out to fight the opening battle that's stupid. Let the others fight first, watch them. And try to identify the Servants and figure out their weaknesses.

Once Caster starts his Cthulhu rampage, Saber will inevitably use Excalibur giving away her name. Then depending on whether Iskander gets involved in that fight he'll also be giving away his identity. If I recall, Gil also showed up so he'll be giving his ID away too. Just keep your Lancer in the shadows and try to identify them as much as possible. See if you can prepare a counter for the ID'd Servants or at least pick a location that favors Diarmuid over them. Avoid Gil at all costs. Hiding out in one heavily fortified, isolated place like Tokiomi did was a good idea. Tokiomi only lost because he didn't see Kirei's betrayal. Kayneth won't have that weakness. At least wait until only Kerry and Kirei are left. Then send Lancer in to fight whoever survives the Saber vs. Gil duel. Of course, it's very likely Saber survive since Gil is a massive jobber. Then have Diarmuid fight the weakened winner. If Diarmuid wins, the Holy Grail is yours. If he loses, book a ticket out of there and get on the earliest available flight back to UK.

It'd pretty hard to do that since fighting with honor is lancer's only wish in the holy grail war.

not my problem, either he gets some sense or i CS it into him

also something something it is his duty to serve me (his master) loyally and help me win the war, anything else is dishonorable

I get fucked by either Kiritsugu or Rin's dad/Gil. There's no way for me to win in those conditions.

according to nasu/urobutcher there is

>Preferably put her on an airplane and send her off to some far west country.

Excluding theories of whether or not one can persuade Lancer, I like your plan except for this. This seems like the definition of something Kiritsugu could find out about and just put a bomb on the plane or some shit like that.

There is no way for me to win. The only possible thing would be for lancer to use his spear debuff effect to just weaken everyone and wait somewhere till only one is left and as soon as that guys fight is over attack with everything and try to beat him. But lancer has honor bullshit so that doesn't work

Stop being an egotistical, muh bloodline, asshole.

What did Tokiomi think of Kayneth and vice versa? Did they even know about each other?

Gil is in the war. There is no teenage ginger around to handle him for me.
I'm fucked.

theres lancelot

Even weakened, I don't think Lancer could touch Gil, and if Iskander can use HI, Diarmuid be ded boi.

Accel Order Zero

Let the strongest servants (Saber, Archer and Rider) fight it out and then assassinate the rest

thats why you use the local unstoppable murder machine (berzerker) handle them

There's no canonical conversations involving the two, so you just have to use context, but since Kayneth is pretty predictable, I think it's easy to guess that he knew. It's always assumed that there will be a representative from each of the three families in the war, the only aspect that might be surprising is that they put forth their patriarch. LIkewise, Dialogue from F/SN implies that Rin learned everything of the Association from her father, who probably had a good idea of which mages were the strongest.

and that's why you kill the master, make sure that all the retired masters are dead and hope that the golden bastard doesn't find anyone else to contract

While lancelot is a good counter for Gil he was summoned as a berserker and will keep guzzling up his masters mana without any regard to wether or not the master can continue supplying it.

Yeah, frankly Archibald fucked up hard by not capitalizing on Berserker. Even assuming the Harbor fight(s) has to happen, he still should have noticed that Berserker was a classically European knight figure that Gil took special umbrage with. Kirei made it seem like Kariya wasn't particularly hard to find, so Kayneth really should have tried to set something up. The one servant that could have beat Saber and Gil had an interest in Saber, and his master had an interest in Tokiomi. Would've worked well.

Fuck Lancer in order to mindbreak him.

thats even better for you, it means that when/if he beats Gil there wont be enough left in him to fight you

You mean the guy who would've been turned into a pin cushion had Tokiomi not been an idiot?
Not sure how that guy is going to help.

if people hadn't been idiots the whole grail war wouldn't have become like what it is during the 4th war

Easy.
Make Diarmud meet with Iskander.

Iskander offers Diarmud to join him in World Conquest.
Use command spell to accept it as long as Iskander is alive.

Now you have Lancer+Rider team. In the offshot Rider dies, you have a free lancer.

How would he locate him? Iskander was notoriously hard to track cause he just flew around everywhere. Even took Kerry a long time.

Start a flashy battle anywhere. Iskander is always looking for battles and enemies. Tell Diarmud to fight and drag it until Iskander appears.

When Iskander appears, try to form an alliance, he will accept, it's his fixation.
Then using Diarmud spear that negates magic (that he used on Caster's book for example) use it later on Archer and Saber to prevent Excalibur and Enuma Elish.

No more anti-Fortress and anti-World Noble Phantasm, Rider noble Phantasm can easily overrun Archer with only Gate of Babylon in his favour. Same for saber without Excalibur.

Problem would be later Berserker and Kiritsugu/Kotomine Kirei killing a master to get one of the few remaining servants.

no

hes a counter to GoB, and has fair odds against Gil

A big neon sign saying Booze, Battles and chances of Conquest

Bro up with Kariya.
Help Kariya around as best i could to kill Gilgamesh and help him around with Zouken and save Sakura with him, for him to give me Lancelot. AND NOT FUCKING FIGHTING WITH KERRY, JUST SENDING FUCKING SERVANTS TO KILL HIM
Take control of Lancelot after he gave it to me, defeat anyone else with Diarmuid and Lancelot team-up, make Diarmuid kill himself for the lulz, and burn the world with the grail.

This is entertaining.

>prevent Excalibur and Enuma Elish.

Wouldn't work. On Invisible Air all it did was disrupt the contacted area and the rest of it was fine. It's not Rule Breaker.
It worked on Caster's book cause it's like shorting an electrical circuit and it was fine seconds later.

You'd still have Archer and Rider to deal with and there's no way to kill Caster's monster without breaking Gae Buidhe

You are a bad man, aren't you.

You're forgetting about Waver though. Iskander might be fine with bending the Master/Servant roles but Waver entered exclusively to fuck over Kayneth. He'd be willing to use Command Spells to make sure he doesn't help. Even if Kayneth kills Waver, there's a chance Iskander will refuse a contract simply because he liked Waver.

>wanting to help Kariya and Sakura
>bad man

The grail is corrupted, Kayneth doesn't know that.
Diarmuid/Lancelot needs to die because you need at least 6 dead servants for the grail, 7 if you want to reach the root

Fate/zero threads were god-tier

Yeah, but if Arthur and Gil are dead, isn't it better to kill Lancelot? He has no reason to live at that point.

That's a good objection.
Well as a Professor who bullied his student there would be no chance but apologise to Waver and promise him a decent review of his grade should he cooperate.

Basically try to get Waver cooperation in anyway. Swallow some pride.

Other option would be to talk to Berseker Master, who was dying, and offer him any type of healing help using magic in exchange for an alliance. Lancer+Berseker would already be quite something. A Lancer+Berseker+Rider alliance would be ideal, even if it would be temporary.

Problem is Keyneth personality. So proud he can't ask for help without seeing it as an insult.

Inuma Elish would kill Caster's monster. It's an Anti-World Noble Phantasm, with a similiar kill number as Excalibur.

It can be turned around with tipping Servant alliance power balance, main problem is Kotomine Kirei and Emiya Kiritsugu, on their own they are almost as lethal to other masters as a servant.

>Waver entered exclusively to fuck over Kayneth
wasnt it more to "prove himself to his peers" or something?

just bullshit something like "i see i was wrong, you are indeed a capable mage"

then first chance you get shiv the little cunt

KIRA KIRA
>youtube.com/watch?v=To2CPim9dt4

Did you not see Gil explicitly refusing to use more than a couple GoB shots?

Hide after hotel explosion and watch Lancer fuck my wife.

Better not to shiv the little cunt. Iskandar likes him and vice versa. And there's Kotomine Kirei and Kiritsugu, any of them can finish Keyneth off and have different types of anti-magus training.

It'd be pretty hard if you had all the knowledge from after watching the series, you'd have to make some specific match-ups and turn out perfectly.
It'd be fucking impossible with only his knowledge. He was doomed the moment he summoned a literally who.

...

Yes, but to be fair he hated Toshaka Tokiomi and had to be ordered around with ocasional command spell.
He also got pissed off for not being allowed to use Gate of Babylon for more time against Berseker.

With Kotomine Kirei, Gilgamesh did everything in according to Kirei's will and vice versa without even command spell needed. Actually Gilgamesh wanted Kirei to be his master really bad for some reason.

Get Sola-Ui out of there as early as possible - preferably months before the war. Explain to Deermud that this whole thing isn't a game and if he wants a good scrap that much I'm perfectly fine with him using his Grail wish on a ticket to Valhalla.

Attempt to make allies with either Team Rider or Team Berserker. Waver's a possibility because they already know each other - maybe try to convince him that being harsh was a teaching method and I want to protect him, or guilt trip him by saying Iskandar should have been my servant, or whatever. I'm the head of a major mage family with a whole life of politicking and mentoring troublesome students, I'm sure I can bullshit something. Otherwise, Kariya and Lancelot obviously have beef against Team Saber and Archer who are the biggest threats, so should be easy to get on my side.

Number one priority is to remove Gil, Artoria isn't as much of a threat - Diarmuid can probably take her one on one if he pulls his same trick from the series. I doubt any two servant team can beat Gil, but Lancelot/Diarmuid/Iskandar alliance can probably take him down. Lancelot defeats himself due to mana drain, then finally I need to deal with Rider. I'm fucked in a straight up NP fight, so the only way is to take out Waver (or sneak attack Rider with Gae Buidhe, but I doubt Diarmuid would agree). Maybe attempt to duel Waver while Diarmuid and Iskandar are fighting it out, but if IH gets deployed it's all over.

>you get shiv the little cunt

kek

>Problem is Keyneth personality. So proud he can't ask for help without seeing it as an insult.

I guess that's Urobuchi's point with the "Kayneth COULD have won" thing. It's almost impossible to come out with a scenario that works perfectly and stays in character. The Berserker alliance could theoretically work but even then I could see him betraying Kariya too early or letting Diarmuid's accidental cucking powers take a toll on his mind.

I think his problem was more personality than knowledge. It seems the best case so far is for a Rider and/or Berserker alliance which could've been fathomed from that first harbor fight that everyone left relatively unscathed. Kayneth ignoring Rider is especially on him since he knew exactly what servant it was, who the Master was, and what his personality was like.

I'm sure I could use Lancer's beauty and cucking powers to gather a shit ton of female spies.

It's subjective, but I'd say for the same reason Kirei is given credit in this thread and has more fans than someone like Tokiomi or Kayneth: he's interesting and powerful. Gil telling Rider he'll only have one friend was the one moment where I thought Gil was being dishonest with himself.

Even without Tokiomi barking orders he didn't want his treasury stained by the monster

>Get Sola-Ui out of there as early as possible - preferably months before the war.

I have no fucking clue why Archibald brought her. Between the cucking Servant and the enemy Master who's a blackmail and assassin whiz, he should have just left her in London. I guess Kerry could take measures to acquire her then as well, but Clock Tower has to be at least as good a stronghold as Tohsaka's fucking house.

Also, your plan is very good; I doubt it will get much replies because it's hard to come up with a counterargument.

That too.
Also would dimish the chances of his younger "wife" taking any interest on Lancer.

But to be fair we never saw Diarmud fighting fully against a Noble Phantasm. He died by command spell suicide so it's harder to estimate.

Considering, that Archer Gil is Gil as a tyrannical warrior-king after Enkidu's death it is likely that he is still grieving in some ways and that it is an exaggeration due to that grief

I would try to seduce Diarmuid and fuck him in front of Sola-Ui. No homo, but it would be fun.

Attack the Matous kidnapping Sakura to use against Kariya as a bargaining token, give Diarmuid some sob story that the Matou's are horrible people or some shit and we're gonna rescue their prisoners. Give Sakura to Kariya and tell him to raid the Tohsaka mansion with Lancelot and burn all his commands fighting Gil. Lancelot will win because Tokiomi is a retard and Gil is a jobber, if Kariya lives which is likely he won't have him leave town with Sakura or something then have that useless bitch Sola Ui attack the church, she'll get caught by Kirei and die. Shit plays out as normal minus Gil'n friends and don't raid the Einzbern Mansion, Hundred Face Hassan dies to Iskandar. Have Saber Excaliblast Gilles as usual then use CS to kill Iskandar and Saber immediately after the fight. Grail won and avoided being cucked.

Not necessaroly disonest. King of Heroes can't be "friend" with King of Conquerors, they are two Monarchs. And Iskander is used to be Emperor and rule over other monarchs, so there may be a reason Gil would feel uneasy despite the respect.

As for Kirei - well he's an Executioner, and brings back Archetypes when Church often employed priest warriors, something that modern history pretends that never happened. So I guess it's a rare topic with some basis in past historical reality.

Also given it was a Woman that in revenge made his friend Enkindu die, and that stole from Gil the drink of immortality, he might find some common ground with Kirei belief in garden of eden that a mythical female caused fall of man.

>Attack the Matous

Good luck fending Zouken off. He could pull a surprise attack at any time and any minor poisonous worm or insect would be his familiar.

>Church often employed priest warriors, something that modern history pretends that never happened.

Tell me more

>Kill Risei
>Try harder to get Risei's extra seals after murder before Kirei finds him.
>Unlimited sex with Diarmuid
>Die happy from being Lanced too hard.

look, if your chance to shiv him is on the plane back to england after the war so be it- just kill the little git

>You start right after the battles in the harbor
>You do not know anything Kayneth doesn't know (enemy abilities/location/personalities, etc)

Zouken will btfo you.

Tell us more about the priest warriors.

Just observe and wait for the other Servants to kill each other, then use Lancer to kill the Master of the remaining Servant with a Command Spell.

Say hello to Assassin.

Even though this is a bit of a joke, you do bring up a good point. Could you really persuade Waver to kill Iskander after the big threats are done? Iskander certainly wouldn't do it of his own will and I doubt Waver would make him do it even at gunpoint. Lancer also has pretty much zero chance one-on-one with Rider.

>mfw I was such a noob in those days that I believed for a while the one who corrupted the grail was Diarmud with his dying curse

I realize we can't leave Sola-Ui behind since it's before the start of the scenario, I was just complaining. I don't get why he thought it was a good idea to bring her.

I think he's referring to the Inquisitions. Maybe conflated with things like Holy Knights (Templars and such) and things like the Witch Hunts. I don't think anyone like Kirei would have existed, sadly.

So I'm shit with power levels in this series.

Was Diarmuid not strong as a servant?

Iskandar did it in Accel Zero Order.

send lancer and iskandar to fight lancelot

snap wavers neck while they arent looking

E-rank luck.

I wouldn't blame you. Zero was my introduction to the universe and I was confused as fuck with all that corruption and Artoria's history.

Luck of the Irish

Iskandar could go rogue before dying though.

You are doing it wrong. "Shiv the little cunt" is used for that.

His problem is being a literal who

by the time he realizes its too late, hes in combat with a dangerous opponent and with no mana source- even if he knows i did it and where i am hed still not make it in time before either lancer or Lancelot kill him

This is such a fucktarded thread. Grail war has always been rigged from the start and a total scam.

The winning move is to resign or quit and quickly fuck off back to London.

well, true to be told one of Cu legend is being almost immortal. Insert Lancer is dead jokes or Protection from Arrow meme here

>rigged

For a lancer ,saber or archer to win IIRC.

His fight against Saber is basically him at his best possible moment - a one-on-one melee fight against an honorable opponent - and he still nearly lost. He doesn't have any super bullshit like the top tier heroes (Gil who has every NP including the absolute strongest weapon ever, King Hassan who's so killy he can kill death itself, Karna who is literally a DBZ character). His spears are a trick that only works once, and wouldn't work at all against someone with non-magical armor. He's nothing compared to our boy Cu. Fate isn't really about powerlevel vs powerlevel, but he doesn't have anything going for him at all.

He wanted her to supply Lancer cause he wanted to fight the other Masters at full power

>and he still nearly lost.
Nigga what.

Lancer from FSN had Battle Continuation A, that other Servants asides from Hercules maybe (which is a different perk) didn't. he can keep fighting until he is 100% dead. Being on the process of dying is not enough, he still has a few extra minutes.

That's what you fail to realize - Rider always refused without having Waver in his Chariot. It would require Keyneth to attack a literal servant.

What could go wrong.jpg

Give up the fucking holy grail war and go home and fuck my hot wife.

He kinda sucked. Power levels in Fate rely largely on how famous or (in Gil's case) relevant your Hero is. Diarmuid wasn't very famous so he was just okay. Only ones that might be weaker were Caster (who was able to build a strong base and channel everything he had into his beast) and Assassin (who was really made to be a throwaway servant). It comes off as him being the first one to genuinely try to win and he failed;

He is a good servant
But he aint no cu chulainn
>Inb4 E luck

His lances had strong abilities and his fighting ability was equal/almost better than Saber in the fourth war (and that Saber is stronger than Shirou's Saber), so yeah, he's actually quite strong.

He got paired with a shit master is what most of the issues came down too. Also the chivalry meme, but that was mostly because his master was a dumbass.

To be honest we can't know fully because he was killed early with a command spell and was honor bound.

Also he is the Servant that wounded Saber the most, asides from Hercules.

It was weird seeing him crumble into dark dust instead of the common light sparks servants turn into after defeat

if he wants to take waver into close range of lancelot, he can be my guest

hell, in that case sending him against saber would do fine- an Excalibur and our harry potter goes bye bye