Why can't Ki work like Nen?

Just sayin', DBS could be WAY More interesting with just a simple change.

Make Ki always work like fucking basic Nen. Even without Hatsu, we got some interesting moments on HxH with that shit about focusing the aura in certain points to hit or block more efficiently.

DBS could still be about punching and kicking but there's be some sort of combat strategy if they had to manage their aura.

And it mostly pisses me off because they sometimes use barriers so it is kinda implied that Ki works like Nen, but they never go deeper.

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There is a video by Plague of Gripes talking about DB powerlevels if anyone is interested.

Because DB already went through it's interesting stage long ago.
Now it's in the stage that every shonen eventually reaches where power creep has reached asinine heights and power level is all that matters.
HxH is entering the same stage after the Chimera Ant arc, don't expect anything good to come out of it in the future.

Nen is boring and needlessly complex so no, it wouldn't be an improvement.

Or, y'know, Super not existing and abandoning this long over franchise would be pretty good too.

You can blow up planets with Ki. Nen cucks can't compete.

Nen has a problem of having nearly limitless possibilities.
It's gets too close to being like magic.
What Nen does is almost what Chakra does in naruto. But naruto is still slightly limited compaired to Nen. Nen gives so many options that you can make a contract with yourself to over power yourself, or seal other powers like magic, or bring people back to life.
Ki is limited because it takes technique but can still lose to a stronger ki power.
The reason ki isn't like Nen is because Ki is just more simple in terms of a narrative. Nen also complicates things so much more that you can do nearly anything with it.

>why isn't every movie like Star Wars

>What Nen does is almost what Chakra does in naruto.
Except Chakra had a "Fuck it, it does anything you want it to" option (Yin/Yang elements), and unlike Nen, is based on a vague energy source that can ignore any actual cost with enough quantity, so it easily fell into the escalation problem. That all didn't help the fact that Chakra as a whole was so vaguely defined, more so at the start

But yeah, Nen is pretty much designed around minimizing power escalation, while Ki and Chakra just don't care.

Kinda remember nen was being used for mulitple things, too many things to where you can give yourself a contract to over power an enemy, or stop another from fighting simply by cursing them on any specific action this person takes.
With chakra you can do nearly everything Nen can do.
Ki is the limited one, where as it's an extension of yourself over powering or using special techniques. Magic exist in the dragonball world mind you, just ki in the main focus of dragonball.

Ki being limited (in application, not in capability) just means that it can scale more easily without being too complicated for the reader.

Anime writers seem to be taking tiny steps in that direction with introducing more ways to use ki and different techniques

Toyotaro's manga is still all zwee fighting all the time, though, because he is a hack

Or being too bullshit, really the reason I think it's good to limit ki possibilities is because it forces the writer not to rely on a deus ex machina.
Take HxH, the latest chapter had the rubber nen dude was dead but brought back to life due to one girls contract and his rubber nen making it possible to come back.
With ki the only way to heal with it is the use of spiritual healer like dende or a Devine ki like kabito. Other than that, you can use ki like a difibulator to start up the heart again, that's it.
>zwee fighting all the time, though, because he is a hack
What? His shit makes more sense than the anime.

>HxH is entering the same stage after the Chimera Ant arc
>Literally the opposite happened

>With ki the only way to heal with it is the use of spiritual healer like dende or a Devine ki like kabito.
Not that it matters, seeing as magic co-exists with Ki in this world, so bringing people back to life or healing from life-threatening injuries borders on trivial for any character with access to Dragon Balls or Senzu Beans, which happens to be anyone who's associated with the main cast.
This basically means the story doesn't NEED a Deus Ex Machina, because it has a "reset everything to status quo" button.

>What? His shit makes more sense than the anime.

It wasn't a question of which one makes more sense.

ie I liked anime Black's energy scythes and dimensional clones or whatever the hell that was, even though they are not explained.

Because they imply that you can do shit with ki other than punch hard and shoot fireballs.

That was already established with Vegito.

The dragonballs are the deus ex machina.

Is it still a deus ex machina, if they have become a pre-established plot device?
I mean, the fact Picollo was an Alien, and there was a whole race of convenient wish-granting-ball makers, was most definitely a deus ex machina, but would that term still apply to the Dragon Balls themselves, this late in the game?

Because Nen is trash, it's the exact thing JoJo part 2 parodied.

>MC is fighting some opponent that's beating him
>goes on the defensive
>looks like he's about to lose
>"NANI???? HE PUT DOWN 5000 WEBS OF EXPLOSIVE FEDORAS WITHOUT ME NOTICING? MASAKA!!!!!!!"
>rinse repeat

You're not fucking clever because your fictional character had some wove an overcomplicated tactic during a fight where all he did was get his ass beat by a stronger opponent, you're just pulling shit out your ass and doing it in a way that requires retarded exposition during/after, either by a narrator or, even worse, the characters explaining to eachother what they did. The fight between Kiritsugu and Kirei in Zero is actually a good example of how to handle powers creatively. The characters have already been established beforehand, as have most of their powers, and when they are used during the fight they don't need a minute of exposition dialogue to explain them, instead it's about them trying to use them as best they can against eachother. They did have some unexplained stuff that had to be explained e.g. how Kiritsugu was using his command seals but that was very short.

>had some wove an overcomplicated tactic
How did I manage to fuck that up so bad?

Yes it is, because it still a work of some god like entity or god object that puts things back to the norm. The norm being peace for the main characters. The English dub said it best, "go all out gohan anything you destroy can be fixed with the dragonballs." They openly admit it. Even now you and I both know with the super dragonballs goku will wish for all the universes to come back so they can train and fight again some day.

O

Yes and it didn't take so we need more of it.
Like Black's laser scythes.
That were not in the manga.

MY

No, it isn't. Shitty plot element maybe, but it's not a Deus Ex Machina if it has already been established prior to it solving the problem.

Said who? It's still established that Vegito does it. It's still established that it takes some one so skilled to make. It's was even done by that girl in the tourney of power who made weapons out of her ki.

>pulling shit out your ass and doing it in a way that requires retarded exposition during/after
Which is one of my biggest gripes with anime in general and I always groan when it happens. So silly, insulting and unnecessary. I can tolerate it when I know the show has a target audience that reaches down to young teens, though even then it is weird. Don't elevens complain about this shit when they talk about anime?

Deus ex machina doesn't mean it just comes out of the blue. An item can still be established early in the story with no use other than at the end it solves every ones problem. Deus ex machina isn't always terrible plot turnaround, like you see with bleach or naruto. It's simply Devine thing that brings in a resolution.

Ki is actually very versatile.
Look at Hit, he can create dimensional spaces where he can skip (or stop, depending on if it's manga or anime) time and store it up for even more exotic attacks. This allows him to attack without telegraphing an attack and he also uses this to strike vital points.

He can use the stored up time to fuel a technique where he creates a parallel world that he can attack from without exiting. He can also use his ki and stored up time to put somebody in a time lock.

There's also a lot about "leaking" your ki and controlling it in DBS, Goku needs SSB in order to use kaioken with a super saiyan form because it's calmer than any other form. He can't gather energy for the spirit bomb while being any super saiyan form because that makes him aggressive. Ultra Instinct makes your limbs move on their own and prevents your movements from being sensed because you're not putting any killing intent behind them.

While DBS may be shit in some aspects, it improved a bit on how you can actually use ki.

>thinking there won't be another Meruem level villain
Very optimistic of you.

It improved the use of other techniques that don't require maximum power. It at least showed you don't have to be over powered to defeat bad guys any more, like in dragonball.

>still a work of some god like entity or god object
Despite the name, that's not what a Deus Ex Machina is.
It's a previously unexplained plot element that all of a sudden helps the protagonist(s) of the story. Divine or not. Coming out of the blue is exactly what defines a Deus Ex Machina.

At the pace the manga is going I'm being just realistic

pic related
Hit also seems to have many derivatives of his dimensional bullshit, which is either King Crimson, The World or both at the same time.
Parallel world also leaves a phantom of himself that can move in his stead if he wants to. He has never fired an actual ki blast, the only thing like it was one thing he used in the last episode. In their stead he uses an assassination technique, not for battle, but to kill, it passes through the body as long as you're not protected and fucks over your internal organs. Hit actually killed Goku by doing this, but in response he shot a blast of ki that would more or less restart his heart once it came down.

No it is what I said it was. The original definition stems from Greek plays where the deus ex machina was a crane that hoisted actors who played as the gods who in the end resolved the issue. This example shows that the gods were always there but it wasn't till the end of the play they fix things. The god machine basically brought in the gods that resolved the issue. In literature terms Deus ex machina can be anything. Another Greek story was a bout a man and a woman who I can't remember but they took a journey or some shit but on their person had rings. Only at the end did the rings serve their pupose because they were proof they belonged to this royal family due the noble having the same ring they both meet at the end.
That's what it is, it's an item or plot device that brings a solution to a problem that hasn't been resolved.

The major threats of the current arc are diseases and parasites, what kind of moron would see that as power creep?

But if there's another Meruem who gets a storyline like Meruem then anyone with taste would welcome it.

Seems they don't, nothing makes me want to turn that shit off like 2 minutes of exposition dialogue by the character.

This, with Ki you can:
>burn your own body for energy
>stop time (Guldo)
>teleport
>fire a variety of energy projectiles that have different properties
>blind opponents
>duplicate yourself
>grow more arms
>break through dimensions
>Hit's time fuckery
>Genkidama
>take over someone else's body
>a tonne of other shit

Ki is vastly superior to fucking Nen because it keeps it simple, it doesn't need half an episode of exposition to explain the over-complicated bullshit the author came up with, and you can actually believe it could be pulled off, unlike the Nen bullshit which is just the result of the author trying to outdo his last Nen bullshit with every new iteration.

Some of these are not fully explained, because some of these abilities are only available to aliens. Like time stopping. No one but aliens have this power and even then it's just one alien, like a saiyan getting a zen kai boost. That's only a saiyan can have.

Looks like you googled "Deus ex Machina", realized you were wrong and synthesized your own definition based off of the origin of the term.

the galactic king mentions that there are people who can use "time skipping", and Hit is probably just one of them. Albeit he is really fucking old and stronger than any other time skipper and more powerful too.
Given that he can improve his time skip and dimensional bullshit, it's probably something alike Guldo's time stop, except more effective.

Guldo is weaker in power but he was able to stop time just holding his breath. I will admit that these abilities are tied to ki much like anything, but ki isn't the main creator of these time stopping techniques.

Not everything has to be explained, we don't need 5 minutes of explanation on how exactly Kaioken manipulates Ki to power him up but at the same time wear down his body. We know how it works in practical terms, we don't need an in-depth explanation of how Goku directs Ki outwards from his body's cells or some stupid shit (not to mention it would be retarded to even explain that anyway since I doubt Goku is doing it manually, just like you don't consciously contract muscle by muscle to breathe).

Nen is fucking overrated.

t. brainlet

Yes but all it needs is "this race special ability is time stop" or some shit. I'm not asking for in depth I'm just pointing out that some of these moves arent created through ki techniques they are just special abilities that races have at birth.

Wow you are so smart.

Time skip is a ki technique though.

Wow, a hexagonal stat sheet, truly the peak of genius.

Then why hasn't there been more users? Guldo who was a retarded Nancy boy could do it but the rest of the ginyu force didn't know that move? Simply it's just a special ability that can be powered up more and manipulated more with ki

>Toyotaro's manga
toriyama, toyotaro doesn't do anything with the story that toriyama tells him

BASED

They only say that to tell the two apart since toriyama watches over both

And if you reached that conclusion on your own then it didn't need to be stated, now did it?

>Implying the author of HxH won't die long before they even reach the next arc
HiatusxHiatus ain't never getting off that boat.

>focusing the aura in certain points to hit

It does since there are others who didnt, now did they, like this gent

No I didnt, sounds like you just don't like being told you were wrong.
I have a bachelor's in theater. This is simple history that any one in this field would know.

>realized you were wrong and synthesized your own definition based off of the origin of the term.
Now that's some mental gymnasties if I ever saw one.

No fuck off. I don't want to waste 20 minutes listening to him be a cunt about everything because he's too offended to even try to understand the internal logic.
>MUH BIGHER NUMBERS

It's funny Goku only did this once before against Trunks.

>trunks
What?

Ki enhancing his finger to block against his sword.

Gotcha I was thinking supers manga stuff.

He does make a point. You don't need an exact number to a power level you just need to know the multiplyer, and people make their own canon powerlevels at that point. In short power levels are useless and stupid.

Could Yamcha beat Meruem?

I was referring more to every time he talks in general. Every time he describes super on SBF podcast he makes it.sound like the biggest piece of shit ever in a way that I have no doubt has driven people away from watching it even though most of his rant is either opinion or factually wrong because he doesn't WANT to try to understand it. Hadn't seen the video video. Is it scientific and directed for once?

No it was based on literature wise.
Buy the thing is the dragonball series is a poorly written series, but it's a fun fucking series none the less. I mean the way he talks about it shows he's a fan of the series but he can be overly critical about it. He brings science in but it's all head canon and he admits that. His major gripe was about how tien got shafted and shafted hard. I agree with him totally. Tien needed some good fighting scenes, and all he got was something stupidly put together.

Watch his Super Rant on the best friends podcast
youtu.be/w0nOBMvT_oA
He's also got another one about Jiren that's less bad. Tell me hes not being a super cunt

Oh wow what the fuck is his problem

>unironically watching Youtubers
>unironically talking about Youtubers and sharing their videos on Sup Forums

Jesus Christ

Well I guess I expect him to be a cunt really but he still does make good points. Toriyama does have issues with writing. The thing is plague is just asking too much for a series that is made for 12 year olds in the beginning.

Doesn't help that he's factually wrong about alof of his points there

I didn't listen to it all what did he say?

Go back and listen. Feel the rage. He's just wrong enough that it makes things sound shittier than they are

REDDIT SPACING

Ok I see the problem, yeah he's being a fag here and there, however he's just glossing over the plot quickly, like anyone who is just talking about the series. The thing about goku being retarded, I feel he was over stating it. Goku was dumb from the start it was toei that made him smarter than he really was. He was just glossing over the story, but he isn't wrong that it's poorly written but it's his fault for being upset with it.

If you like that, his Jiren one will put a smile on your face

Can you link it?

youtu.be/nYphSgvVIdc
Hes such a salty cunt

Techniques and strategy are not as effective as raw power when characters move faster than light and can blow up planets.

Not even joking, he's an autistic manchild.

Don't forget reading memories/mind. In fact Goku used it on Namek.

If everyone is an emitter, then nobody is

Where the fuck did Tarble go?

That massively depends on how common the CA Queens are, and if there are still humans in the DC (that aren't powerful like Don).


We might see CA Kings that don't have any human genes, which is very crucial as that's the glue which made Meruem so powerful in the first place.

>"NANI???? HE PUT DOWN 5000 WEBS OF EXPLOSIVE FEDORAS WITHOUT ME NOTICING? MASAKA!!!!!!!"

Name one instance where this happens in HxH. The state of speedreaders.

Hisoka vs that clone faggot

>it doesn't need half an episode of exposition to explain the over-complicated bullshit the author came up with
Again, give me one example. You talk about Ki's simplicity and yet its basically everyone having potentially the same narrow skillset. The amount of combinations and possibilities are severely limited. Where's the fun in a story where all these combinations are explored until some new ability enters the fray at a convenient time?

Not only does Nen lay most of the cards on the table when its introduced, it also logically sorts every type of ability you can think of into one of six categories. It also feels far more fleshed out.

Coming up with overcomplicated abilities doesn't win fights in HxH, it's the application of the more simpler abilities - combined with other factors like mental strength and planning.
>DBfags speedreading
Why am I not surprised.

You mean the same guy who had an ability that used the worst combination of Nen categories? Kastro was talented but it was quite clear that he wasn't a very smart person. He invested all of his training into creating a double and ended up failing at the basics, like Gyo - one of the more common advanced techniques used among Nen users.

When Chrollo was looking for Gon and Kurapika, he ordered his two subordinates to use Gyo. When Biscuit was training Gon and Killua, she told them to use Gyo whenever they see something suspicious.

Kastro failed massively in this regard and Hisoka got the better of him mentally. Just like I said in my other reply to you, Nen fights are decided by application of abilities + factors such as mental strength and planning. Hisoka was calm throughout the fight and Kastro got rattled, which lead to an easy win for Hisoka.
1/2

They literally review the match again after the audience finally learned about Hisoka's two Nen abilities, Bungee Gum and Texture Surprise. This wasn't pointless exposition, it was something you had to see because you weren't aware of said abilities when watching the fight.

Try again, speedreader.
2/2

>random shitpost
>this is worth discussing
>same person except now it's a coherent video
>garbage

NOW DO HISOKA VS CHROLLO

>he is such a salty cunt
But that is literally his appeal, his name is Plague of Gripes, he likes to rant about things he loves in a condescending way, all of his videos are like that, its why people like him besides the porn

I can appreciate how even now Togashi makes it a point to show how personalized Nen is when it comes to each of the categories.

Because Toriyama is a shit writer who doesn't want to put in the effort to not give every single character the same powers. And dragonball fans are so stupid that there's no point because they'll eat it up anyways.

O

Hisoka really really wanted to have a fun 1v1 duel with Chrollo where he would best and kill him.
Chrollo knew of this side of him and saw the inherent flaw in that desire: believing the opponent to share the same wish just because he accepted the duel.
And being a different type of fighter than Hisoka he didn't give a fuck and enlisted at least two other Phantom Troupe members to secretely support him from the crowd, while at the same time feeding Hisoka with free information about a bunch of "his" abilities to keep him focused on "him".

As a result: Hisoka spent more than half the duel trying to figure out what Chrollo (alone) could or couldn't do, while in reality the guy was merrily swapping abilities at will and getting support from the shadows.

So basically Chrollo pulled a Kastro on Hisoka where he pushed him to focus and overthink while he gained the advantage.

After his "resurrection" Hisoka calmly thought about it, realized, and went to hunt down those pieces of shit who butted in his "duel".

the only cast member who knows magic is Piccolo and he only ever uses it to punk on other magic users, like Babidi

OH LOOK ANOTHER "CHROLLO CHEATED" FUCK