Christ, Christianity, Theology, Physics

Discussion about all regarding Christ, theology, theodicy and existential questions surrounding all of it as well as all physics evidence we have that any may wish to assert support or discourage knowledge of God/Christ.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=QgpVwXlvDkQ
biblehub.com/hebrews/4-12.htm
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29116373
youtube.com/watch?v=8hOKA9fR2p4&list=PLQThBIMR0cmS1Ju2hB4rTdNFAkpuKubxC&index=1
youtube.com/watch?v=aIre1u0XskE&t=5865s
youtube.com/watch?v=3jl2sVxBl9I&index=2&list=PLQThBIMR0cmS1Ju2hB4rTdNFAkpuKubxC
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

hburmp

I want god all over me

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Christ was God in human form, also pantheism makes more sense than God having an ontological separation from reality

when's he coming back?

next monday mark your calendar

>Christ was God in human form
then why did god die to himself? kinda fuckin weird

>inb4 sin
that isn't a real thing its just what god thinks of you lmao

fucking finally
just after sunday so that I can meet him free of sin which is cool

yeah, jesus gonzales

be serious

no
Christ was the SON alone in human form, nothing else

less than 100 years
i assure you

to pay the price for sin which we cannot
not without being rendered to oblivion

>inb4 sin
>that isn't a real thing its just what god thinks of you lmao

so you discard the factual answer?
then why ask?
pretty smart there

>less than 100 years
>i assure you
I hope

ATTENTION
Now calling for all proof/evidence of ANY sort to God's existence or nonexistence.

i can actually tell you how many years MAX, but no precise year

but if I were to tell you it requires a certain length of "primer" knowledge that would take up 5 or 6 pages even when maximally summarized

sounds like tinfoil-nostradamus tier stuff

nope
its all from scripture
which greatly puts nostro. to shame

>I never said they cant
>i said they cant in a linear spacetime, and that we cannot prove otherwise true nor false
>
>we cannot experiment outside of our spacetime
outside of our space time is not relevant to the argument le red herring le straw man
>no one disputed that your extended claims cannot be falsified within this universe this fact escapes you
so you agree that we live in a causal universe but it cant be falsified... le so?

you're agreeing with all of my points but now are just saying they are UN-falsifiable even tho it is provable that we live in a causal universe (newtons first law which you yourself do not dispute) which is the precedent for the reasoning itself. you are attacking nothing.

it is necessarily impossible that something can cause itself because of the fact that there is cause within in the universe. the two are mutually exclusive, one can not exist without contradiction to the other. for this to be the case something would have to exist prior to itself, which is impossible.

guessing ur the same guy posting from other thread

>youtube.com/watch?v=QgpVwXlvDkQ
What does one think of this ?

Would you dudes be triggered or think me an infidel if I just followed Jesus' teachings and none of the rest of the bible?

Like Jesus' teachings resonate with me but the rest of the book seems redundant if Jesus is the way, why not spend all my time on his teachings and trying to follow them and not worry about anything else?

you posted this also in other thread, my reply is there

you want to shift entirely to this one?

yea

i would think that absurd; and of you: exceptionally misguided

The whole trinity doesn't make sense, Either Jesus was the "Son" so a human with an essence of the divine, or he was an incarnation of God. I know some say that Jesus had both human and divine aspects that were separate but that seems to be getting into some Herakles type shit, where his human soul was lost in the Asphodel fields, but his divine part ascended to become a god.

Your premises are wrong.

Jesus is the incarnation of the Trinity, which is the God of the Bible.

Every book of the Bible was inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:15). Therefore, every applicable teaching in the Bible is something Christians are obliged follow.

You're only making assertions and aren't given us any reason to believe you.

they are three part of one whole, just a "group"
when the Bible says for instance "I and my father are one" the greek word for ONE there means "one in unity"

p.s.
Christs being was as simple as this:
His body was full human and nothing more
His spirit/soul (mind) was entirely divine

it is as simple that
no confusion necessary

So a few serious questions,

I've been struggeling with religion for a while now. A few years ago i turned from a "child believer" (raised with religious believes and went to a baptist church every sunday) to a full fledged athiest. I really read up on it, started to follow Hitchens, Darwin etc.

It lead to a lot of arguments at home with my mother, who blatently refuses to believe in absolutely proven concepts like evolution. This really bothered me and drove me even further away from christianity.

In the last two years i've kind of stepped away from the dedicated Athiestic believe that there can be no god, and i feel no need anymore to discuss with religious people trying to prove them wrong.

Nowadays i guess i kind of believe in some diety, however i'm not sure what shape or form he holds.

I guess my problem is that i feel like science and the Bible just don't match up, thus disproving a christian god.

A few questions i have (I don't expect you to have the awnsers, but it would be nice to hear anyone's opinion on them) are:

> Does god intervene in this world (miracles etc.)
I don't believe so, because A: i've never experienced any presence of god, and B: It would discard the idea that we have free will.

> If God does intervene, why would he help some, but let other perish

> Why a christian god? Why can't it be an allbeing deity that just set everything in motion.

> By what standards are we judged, were we to be judged at all. Are we to abide the bible word for word? Because i feel as if a lot of these rules are outdated.

> Just a general question about the bible. How come God does and say so many terrible things, exactly contradicting his own standards for being good. (demanding soldiers to abort unborn babies from an enemy tribe: The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. Hosea 13:16

Not preaching user, just musing out loud
So three aspects of one God?
ok fair enough, so his soul differed from a regular human in that it was entirely a construct? Its divine aspect something like a piece of God?

Fair enough, that might be how I would see it too if I was not new to belief.

I hardly think it be sacrilegious in nature to follow basically what the original Christians did.
I still don't know how I feel about the rest of the text...

From what I can tell, the main things you need are to proclaim Christ as your lord and Savior and get baptized.

But honestly it seems like every group of Christians have radically different things they do, like it almost seems like a lot of the branches would consider the others heretical...

I mean which denomination is right?
Are any of them?

Personally the only part I know feels right is following Jesus.

Idk, its kinda weird to have a crisis of faith when just starting to have faith...

You can't be a christian and support Trump

>I've been struggeling with religion for a while now. .......

which is quite typical these daze
and seemingly reasonable

>It lead to a lot of arguments at home with my mother, who blatently refuses to believe in absolutely proven concepts like evolution. This really bothered me and drove me even further away from christianity.

do not let humans or the poison of wicked/brittle people push you from our maker, savior, and redeemer

let scripture work on you as it will, alone and without interference of any person

>
In the last two years i've kind of stepped away from the dedicated Athiestic believe that there can be no god, and i feel no need anymore to discuss with religious people trying to prove them wrong.

thats the thing
it CANNOT be proven true nor false
it is non-falsifiable
if it could be then this whole experiment of earth entirely, with satan showing the universe how competently he can mange one planet (how horribly) would be unnecessary and would have been over shortly after the garden

>Nowadays i guess i kind of believe in some diety, however i'm not sure what shape or form he holds.

which is progress in itself

>I guess my problem is that i feel like science and the Bible just don't match up, thus disproving a christian god.

the popular conceived image, and most certainly that of the catholic/orthodox churches are radically irreconcilable

but those "churches" then obviously have NONE of the truth of the gospel

for science must NECESSARILY square perfectly with the Almight, the maker

if He seems to not, then something is wrong with your understanding of science, AND OR your understanding of Him, the Lord

no no when you find the truth/fact of the gospel they line up perfectly and you find you no longer have ANY cognitive dissonance

>A few questions i have (I don't expect you to have the awnsers, but it would be nice to hear anyone's opinion on them) are:

awesome, wonderful!
my specialty

Ok well I am new to all this like my other comments say bro.
But like the only part I feel the truth in is in Christ's words...the rest of the words seem powerful but the are like candles compared to the light given by a star.
I have a lot to read anyway, I feel like the most important being in history's teachings are as good of a place as any to start with...

part 2:


> Does god intervene in this world (miracles etc.)

Yes.
never ceased

> If God does intervene, why would he help some, but let other perish

the righteous (repentant wicked, for all have sinned) will be brought understand every last act of his, every split second of the conflict that took place on this earth, in due time in the ages we are to spend with him, how every last thing, wonderful or terrible, spoke to His glory and majesty and love and the horrible and terrible heinous and obscene manner and methods of the devil (the dragon/adversary/satan)

>> Why a christian god? Why can't it be an allbeing deity that just set everything in motion.

God is an albeing deity.....
but you mean "an all powerful deity OTHER than the God of abraham"
well, in fact, because it cant be simply because it is not

>> By what standards are we judged, were we to be judged at all.

that standards put forth in the Word of God....
is this a trick question?

>Are we to abide the bible word for word?

yes
but Christ ended much on the cross
like sacrifices, and requirements of the flesh like circumcision

He ended (actually THEY did by rejecting god one time too many) the old covenant, the one with the jews (israel of the flesh), and initiated the new covenant with the new israel (jews of spirit, all believers in Christ)

>Because i feel as if a lot of these rules are outdated.

by whose account?
thats right, that of humankind, wicked and unbelieving, transient, dying beings, who change their minds as to what is "right" and "best" as the wind blows

the Word is eternal and immutable
read this verse:
biblehub.com/hebrews/4-12.htm

>How come God does and say so many terrible things, exactly contradicting his own standards for being good.

every seemingly "terrible" thing he did, by secular and weak minded standards were, however painful, the path in the course of this world of LEAST pain

part 3
had he not done those things, killed those people/women/infants then the seed of evil/sin and full acceptance of satan's ways those people would have perpetuated would have resulted in GREATER TOTAL PAIN on this earth before its end

think of it as cutting out cancer cells

But never doubt that even among those he slaughtered or commanded be slaughtered could and likely DID in each case have souls he will nevertheless gather to himself and bring into paradise

>absolutely proven concepts like evolution
Where do we start....

Posting from phone, in the middle of blizzard power keeps surging, the proof for my previous point:

Either we live in a universe with no cause which by nature everything must be eternal. This obviously cannont be the case be cause people are mortal. Or we live in a universe which is causal ( which you agree with) in which there must be a first cause which is eternal (god).

This is not a scientific hypothesis, it is a metaphysicial argument which needs only the previous axioms to build upon

well there arent proven

"proof" only has factual meaning in mathematics

rather what he means is "substantiated by evidence beyond any doubt"

and it is true, given those who ascribe to evolution, given all of the axioms and evidence, and ONLY those axioms and evidence, evolution is indeed the best most rationally and logically sound conclusion

problem:
incorrect "set" of axioms and incomplete evidence

>Either we live in a universe with no cause which by nature everything must be eternal.

well that one possibility

>This obviously cannont be the case be cause people are mortal.

what
the universe does not need people to exist for any reason, we do and we are mortal, transient

this has no bearing let alone effect upon the origin/end/finiteness of the universe

>in which there must be a first cause which is eternal

just because causality occurs within our spacetime/universe, does not mean that it itself is bound by it

>This is not a scientific hypothesis,

nor need it be

>it is a metaphysicial argument which needs only the previous axioms to build upon

the axioms and intermediate conclusions, to say nothing of the final, are all houses of cards

as Ive shown you in each case

why must the universe have a cause?
why must God not?
an d if it DID have a cause, why must that be "God" and not just unknown physics?
how do you suppose you can even rationally speak upon the subject of causality in a setting before/exterior to the initiation of causality, if did begin?

think about it

on computer again hopefully power doesnt surge

This is the jewest answer i've ever seen in my life.
I bet that if i were some dumb ,ignorant cunt you'd easily make me believe its true and real.
10/10 persuasion

no, perfectly fine

sorry typo screwed it up
this will clear it up for you:
*given all of THEIR (held) axioms and evidence

plus didnt you notice my last 2 lines??

i do NOT ascribe to evolution

I know there is a creator behind it all

other parts are just the book of a certain semetic people group..

that that group regarded and followed it so is incidental to it being the Word of God, the Word of he whom they murdered, the Word that attests to their great fall from grace in rejecting Him over and over and over.

Well evolution makes sense for the most part, the least likely parts are life starting from chance and the human brain's growth in such a short time.
I think what we see in fossil records is the evolution of species god created.
I don't think it is unreasonable to think if god is real that creatures don't change based on genetic inheritance.

>well that one possibility
its the only possibility
>what the universe does not need people to exist for any reason, we do and we are mortal, transient this has no bearing let alone effect upon the origin/end/finiteness of the universe

It is a counter evidence to the fact that everything can not be eternal, thus we don't live in a non causal universe. not sure whats so hard to see here

>just because causality occurs within our spacetime/universe, does not mean that it itself is bound by it

>newtons first law doesn't always necessarily apply

>the axioms and intermediate conclusions, to say nothing of the final, are all houses of cards as Ive shown you in each case

this is where we fundamentally disagree

>why must the universe have a cause?
nothing can be the progenitor of itself, not sure how else to say this at this point

>why must God not?
because he is the first cause, he is eternal

>an d if it DID have a cause, why must that be "God" and not just unknown physics?

as you yourself have said physics is incapable of "explaining" god

>if did begin?
??

>Well evolution makes sense for the most part,


on the surface... MAYBE

But this is all it takes , no matter what one believes or holds as credible , "scientific" or evidence.
Its all a matter of faith.
Micro-evolution is real and proven. Macro evolution aka the real deal is a farce.
I think you have a very deluded understanding of the methodology and terminology you're using or should i say close to no understanding which i think is more accurate to say.
Suffice to say that "makes sense" is an absolute no-no in the real world and i can provide you with countless examples using easily comprehensible subjects , concepts and objects . If you wish ofc.

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>It lead to a lot of arguments at home with my mother, who blatently refuses to believe in absolutely proven concepts like evolution. This really bothered me and drove me even further away from christianity.

Darwinian evolution was mathematically falsified last year. Your mother is right.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29116373

>its the only possibility

non-fals.
cant test for any others

>It is a counter evidence to the fact that everything can not be eternal,

no its not
its just absence of such evidence
you seem to be unable to get this out of your head
absence of evidence is no proof of _anything_

>thus we don't live in a non causal universe. not sure whats so hard to see here

i see everything youve said and comprehend it full

what YOU are not seeing is that the leaps you base on this are non-sequiturs

>>newtons first law doesn't always necessarily apply

it applies WITHIN our universe
ONLY

we have no evidence beyond that

>this is where we fundamentally disagree

this is where reality disagrees
you being without evidence of something, and then automatically that is absolute proof to the contrary

reality doesn work that way

>nothing can be the progenitor of itself,

we only know that is (almost) certain WITHIN our universe, not exterior to it, not "before" or "after" it, words which dont even hardly meet the task of speaking exterior to causality, because those words actually require it

>because he is the first cause, he is eternal

I know that
but you cannot reach that through reason and logic alone, with what evidence we have

>as you yourself have said physics is incapable of "explaining" god

no, i never said that

I said that we do not have any such evidence that would allow us to assert the existence of such physics, let alone understand them

>>if did begin?
??

assuming it began, whatever came "before" (which is almost meaningless since we are speaking EXTERIOR to time/causality), so if it did begin, assuming that, whatevidence to we have to anything further/beyond?

None, we have none, that is not wholly conjectural.

*it FULLY

Nah bro, if you read up on the subject, from every side.

You will see most of the theory is just that the genes that adapt the organism get passed on.
I mean like I said, the biggest holes in the theory are it happening by accident which is mathematically quite low,like finding a specific grain of sand on a beach, and the growth of the human brain in such a short period. The Foxp2 gene for instance is only found in humans and took relatively no time at all compared to how long it should have..

Like I said they don't have to conflict, creatures change over time to suit their environment, I don't see any reason why that isn't god at work...

he's right though
new evidence can change every single thing in biology, unlike in mathematics, once a correct proof is found it can never be contested
all biology has is "evidence strongly supporting a hipothesis"

Don't agree with me and then say I don't understand the subject you Ketchup-Sandwich Eater.

I literally said evolution as it pertains to the changing of populations to suit environments is sound, that is micro evolution.

I said the hard parts to believe are the springing of organics from in-organics and the quickness of the timeline when it comes to the growth in human brain size and foxp2, these are all macro-evolution.

why god let babies die? they didnt even have time to form personalities and do any sin.
why not giving them a chance ?

see:

What I don't understand about Christianity is the basis of the entrie religion is that Jesus died so we could be absolved of our sins. But he rose again. Is it a huge sarafice when you know your immortal?

Everything he did was hardly a sacrifice for the creator of the universe. I mean he gave up being where he was to be with us. But it was for a short time and then He was away. I know I need to have faith but I can't immerse myself in gods grace and glory. I just want to pick holes in every sermon I hear. I feel it's gods plan for me.

I think the main point is subjecting himself to torture and death...

so my baby brother who died under american bombs is just a work of god to help the world be a better place?

If a human subjects themselves to torture and death for the betterment of others then that is virtue. What is torture and death to someone who will live again?

Muh Heart. Muh Soul. I am sorry for your loss.
I understand if you hate Americans.

He basically suffered and died so you can live again and not go to hell for eternity for being a sinner.

>its all from scripture

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Idk homie, I am an academic and religions are weird. I know there is a higher power I just am seeking to be a great person.

Sounds good to me. I'm struggling for an identity because if I express myself as a chrisitan im lying to my athiest self and vise versa.

why did you post that image?

>> Does god intervene in this world (miracles etc.)
>I don't believe so, because A: i've never experienced any presence of god, and B: It would discard the idea that we have free will.
>> If God does intervene, why would he help some, but let other perish

Yes he intervenes but not with things like miracles if people disobey god they get wrecked , he does this so people can refind faith , he has been using muslims for a real long time now , the bible it self states that the true church has the spirit of prophecy but i have yet to find it

idk bro, I am not a teacher. I figure first things first, be good and try to be better.

Honestly there are holes in everyone's belief systems, as far as I'm aware. Best thing you can do is seek the truth and try to be as good a person as possible.

Best of luck.

>the bible it self states that the true church has the spirit of prophecy but i have yet to find it

i can show it to you if you want
but so often such people say they really want to know the truth and when shown it, are entirely disregarding of it as implausible, impossible, lies, wickedness, nonsense, etc

Read: Because God loves us so much he sent us DJT to fuck up the deep state and when we get censorship destroyed, the bastards are going to hang from ropes.

no
he is letting satan do as he will

Well the true church was the waldenese until 1300 or something and then the adventist picked it up and from there i am lost and everyone is deluded but the only ones most to the truth today are the seventh day adventist but they dont have the spirit they just copied the doctrine

Someone ought to transcribe this to make it more readable.

Well look no further.
>Ephesians 5:25–27
Its Gods chosen people that are the church . Remember when Jesus said that whenever 2-3 gather in His name there is He among them.
Never forget that the church can assemble at ones house or at a park , or on the streets etc etc.
Rearrange your searching tools and you'll search no more.

Another one who failed to calculate the end times

its from 1800 there are probably copies more readable

Evidence of Divinity:

youtube.com/watch?v=8hOKA9fR2p4&list=PLQThBIMR0cmS1Ju2hB4rTdNFAkpuKubxC&index=1

youtube.com/watch?v=aIre1u0XskE&t=5865s

youtube.com/watch?v=3jl2sVxBl9I&index=2&list=PLQThBIMR0cmS1Ju2hB4rTdNFAkpuKubxC

Have fun, its a wild ride.

The teachings in the Bible go against the Creator. How do we know? By the fact every positive claim that is asserted in the Bible goes against the physical world.

"Wralda is the eternal principles, upon which the laws of creation were founded, and no good laws could stand on any other foundation." Fryan Scriptures

The Bible goes against the Creator.

Watch the 2nd video, its long but very scientific and fairly minimalist on constant talk of God and Christ. Supporting evidence through physics.

Whoever is a friend of the world is in enmity with God, heretic.

This is the evidence for a Creator. The problem with the bible or the abrahamic god is that yahweh is false Creator.

Yahweh is a complex figure who merged with the gods Baal-Hadad and El as the Israelites shed Canaanite polytheism. From Baal he gets storm god imagery, the holy mountain, the battle against the chaos serpent (Baal vs Lotan, Yahweh vs Leviathan), etc. From El he gets the character of an aged, wise god, his pantheon ("the sons of El", later diminishes to a host of angels), and his wife Asherah (see Chronicles/Kings).

a better one

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Cool meme bro, it is weird that you believe in the teachings and writing of the enemy. Why don't you test that theory? If the world aka the functionality of the universe is the enemy of god then why has god built everything around those principles?

The answer is simple your Bible is a false teaching.

ATTENTION
Now calling for all proof/evidence of ANY sort to your existence or nonexistence.

Catholic gang.

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I do not understand ? no one today can prophecy everyone is deluded they do not even know where revelation is about

Yahweh is a false creator. He isn't complex at all. You think that because you are trying to tell history through the bible which is a fake narrative of history.

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Fuck I forgot to crop that

>Catholic gang

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Human actions doesn’t change the fact that ours is still the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Everytime i see paintings like this I have to think of the Manga Berserk and how insanely well he put this medieeval dark shit into his fantasy story.

sure you are

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if you kill the true church you can become the true church because there is no one left

>the final fate of roasties.jpg

>Personally the only part I know feels right is following Jesus
And that is a wonderful and honest place to start. Blessings on your journey. Whenever you start to get confused go back to that statement and know that that is the Truth.

The whole bible is about jesus, literally all of it, the old testament is simply the story through a glass darkly, and the new testament is the clear revelation and occurance of them.

Its no fantasy papist slaughtered everyone not like them

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