Be respectful and please try to keep conversations relatively "intellectual"
Good fascists/similar or influential people to get an introduction
Oswald Mosely Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera Benito Mussolini Adolf Hitler Stepan Bandera Corneliu Zelea Codreanu Salazar Ramiro Ledesma Ramos Ettore Ovazza Gaetano Mosca Friedrich Nietzsche Charles Maurras Enrico Corradini Filippo Tommaso Marinetti Johann Plenge Alceste De Ambris Gabriele d'Annunzio George Lincoln Rockwell Juan Perón Giovanni Gentile Julius Evola
Types of Fascism
Italian Falangism National-Syndicalism British Union National-Socialism Strasserism Clerical Fascism Brazilian Integralism Peronism
>Not listing Legionarism as a type of Fascism. I am disappoint brother
Carter Ramirez
I'll make a note to include that next time
Justin Barnes
Going to kick the thread off with this:
What is the best form of fascism and why?
Nathaniel Green
What do you mean with 'Fascism'? What IS Fascism for you? As an Italian, when I hear 'Fascism' I think of the Ventennio, and... it wasn't a fun time, even before the war it was pretty bad for everyone but the upper mercantile class, that got control of the guilds. For the little people, the system was too regimented and violent, it was a self-demoralizing force for the country... all this leads to my question >what is the draw, nowadays, for Fascism? Why do you people want it, and how should it be different (if at all) from the historical Fascism?
Wyatt Phillips
Italian fascism had it's issues, as would any ideology in it's early days, but now that significant time has passed and new fourms have developed I personally believe there is a chance it could be implimented effectively.
Jeremiah Sanders
Italy is a shithole. If your Italian your opinion doesn't count. You shitalians changed sides in ww1 and cucked out in ww2.
Ok, but what would be different this time around? I don't know anymore what people mean with Fascism! For me it's still a very authoritarian government that caters to the military and the supply-side of the economy, while screwing the people with autistic control over who can and can't do things like work some specific job, study, and so on. There's a layer of 'conservative values' and 'good morality', but it's actually basic populism and doesn't translate into anything concrete, and a layer of Futurism that, again, doesn't really matter. How is modern Fascism any different?
Hudson Diaz
Mosleyism or clericofascism. The Jewish elite derives much of its power from being the modern day priesthood with positions in media and academia. That is the base of their power even more than finance.
Wouldn't it be better to ask us about specific policy? Like what the fascist take is on foreign relations with X country, or what to do about X social problem? Ask serious questions, because I could talk to you about natsyn and traditionalism and antiliberalism but I don't feel it would be productive.
I don't see why, in the modern day, we should assign a specific job to people, if that's something you're concerned about.
You people need to realize fascism takes a different form where ever it's tried, so to debate about about what the "best" form of fascism is doesn't make sense. There's a few basic tenants that always stay the same but the rest is up to the certain nation to decide.
I'm glad Mosley has been getting more love lately he even got some Jews on his side in some cases because his arguments and oratory skills are just incredible.
Adrian Gonzalez
I don’t understand why you won’t ask necessary questions and to answer your previous one, yes Italian fascism has issues starting with corruption but more or so the refusal for Mussolini to step down after the council selected to over see him voted in that favor. Fascism has no certain authorization of what job applies to someone, the ultimate economic goal of all forms of fascism is to purge foreign and corporate interests from the state’s political structure and economic structure thus cleansing the state from malice influences.
First things first, then: how would the economy change, under fascism? Both for the upper and the lower classes. How would welfare, services, and taxation balance?
Hudson Gutierrez
Indeed, I believe mosleyite fascism is the Anglo man’s call from god to protect our rich history and truthful identity.
Blake Miller
don't bother, most e-fascists that aren't falangists fail to 'see' classes and are class unconscious, the idea of state as a reconciliation between classes is too much for most of them and will just muh bad times create muh strong people
Jayden Baker
No that’s not what economical fascism is at all, controlled capitalism does not stop businesses from growing but prevents them from abusing their workers and influencing politicians. Example would be a ban on lobbying of any sort thus the only voice politicians must listen to are the people’s not big corporations or foreign countries.
Daniel Myers
Most people where I live had family who supported the greatest leader we never had. His idea of European brotherhood based on our individual cultural identity rather than a pan European monoculture is the way to Pax Europa.
Josiah King
Disagree mosleyite fascists believe the working class should be protected but still shouldn’t redistribute wealth. Mosleyite fascism maintains a significance in class protection as well racial identity, I have spoken with Spanish anons about falaganism before, it is a similar form of fascism but less about racial protectionism.
Ryder Cooper
>and are class unconscious Then they are just idiot victims of the globalists and controlled opposition. I hope someone will answer my questions, and prove they're more than that.
Dylan Mitchell
We ban certain jobs now. It's illegal to be a prostitute or a hitman. It should also be illegal to be a pornographer or a usurer. What's the problem here? And assigning jobs in the sense that your corporation (whether it be a corporation in the capitalist or the syndicalist sense) tells you what you'll be doing is not a problem inherent to fascism.
Agreed, mosley’s Vision of a united Europe and a higher council of each european ethnic group being represented was a beautiful idea that never happened, we can only dream what this Europe would have been like, Slavs, meds, Anglo, Germanic, Nordic working together would have possibly propelled us into a golden age of productionism and creating the single most advanced and most powerful union of countries history had ever seen.
Jacob Smith
>not redistributing the wealth of the Jews
alright man this is why I was done with fascism long ago
Look above at my statements, fascists from other forms other than mussolini’s Believe in class protection vs a hierarchy.
Luke Morris
Redistribution of wealth is stupidity, it only weakens the working class into believing they deserve hand outs from the government, men must be forged in independence and hardship, dependency on the government for anything other than protectionist economic and militaristic policy is damaging to the nation’s identity and culture.
No, I believe social services should still be available but welfare is a problem, the government has to determine who deserves welfare and who doesn’t if welfare is a possibility in a fascist state, it would be heavily monitored and have strict rules applying to it.
First, I think it's interesting that you place the economy first. It's very materialist- How are you going to shuffle the shekels? But anyway, fascism is syndicalist in its origin and it should remain so. The owners of capital, the workers and the consumers (represented either by the state or by some kind of advocacy organization) have to come together to steer the course of industry. Capitalists shouldn't be able to abuse their workers and the general populace with impunity, and shit like should be illegal- not because the perpetrators are Jews, but because of what they push. Idealism about struggle and independence (admirable qualities, but still) aside I'd liquidate them all, Jew and goy, and open the market back up for independent news outlets.
Connor Cox
Anarchists are fun to debate with when they link fascism with Marxism one example please of how fascism relates to Marxism at all?
Mason Rogers
I like to tell commies that fascism is just revisionist Marxism, but it's just a meme. By that token you could call commies liberals.
Ancap is the only ideology on Sup Forums I see more universally hated than Communism
Sebastian Reed
Mussolini was a Marxist then magivally became a Fascist. If that doesnt demonstrate the connection what does
Kevin Howard
I think it's bad to think of it in terms of welfare. Welfare, to American and increasingly European ears, sounds like gibs to negroes. The corporation or the state providing aid to workers while they look for a new job or attend school isn't what that is.
Not an argument. Also you've clearly never browsed /lrg/
Austin Scott
Liberals are dead, these new liberals in all forms are socialists, they hate capitalism due to the subversion of communist ideology into our education systems. If anything, the socialists wants multiracial and cultural utopia but it is impossible, the levels of hostility would over flow into a pit of despair and war for which ideology can survive.
Owen Hill
I mean oldschool classical liberals. The kind of person that ancucks LARP as. Neoliberalism is like the logical inverse of fascism- instead of taking the good stuff from the right and the left, they took all the fucking poz.
James Mitchell
I don’t accept mussolini’s Form of fascism and to add many fascists were marxists before but understood the importance of protecting your nation’s identity and blood, is some economic policy a little similar? In a way but fascism and Marxism are absolute opposites, fascists look to arm the people with protectionist policies while marxists look to arm the people with globalist unity. Abolishment of culture vs preservation of culture, the two are opposing each other’s policies.
Zachary Phillips
Agreed.
Nolan Watson
I was making a point of you saying Sup Forums was a libretarian and Ancap board
Wyatt Bell
>people change their political views Wow. Imagine. I guess I'm just a crypto-ancap since I was one three years ago.
that's already happening under full late capitalism you brainlet
exactly the type of e-fascist I meant
Hunter Wright
True, ancaps are more or so in my opinion die hard anti communists but very very rebellious towards order, it is not necessarily they are enemies but more or so a ideology of sharks in ocean of fishes.
Liam Barnes
Don't blame him, intersectionalism coopting anticapitalism was done so masterfully that even a lot of commies fell for it.
even the CIA saw intersectionalism as the nail in the coffin
Ayden Bennett
Of course, I know this. It started in the early 60s. It is a shine of hope that reformation through war is possible but angering the majority ethnic class in our case white and yours Spanish would fuel a great awakening of ethno nationalist feelings towards protecting culture and boosting patriotism.
Evan Lopez
Oh put up Szálasi boi and his hungarism too
Owen Lopez
Nazism and fascism are similar but different, Nazis believe that one faithful leader must lead them to glory and redemption while fascists believe in many forms of one party state’s and how voting commences. For Nazis it is a dictatorship absolutely, fascists not necessarily as fascists believe either a council or the people directly can remove the one party state representative from office.
Jayden Gonzalez
Clerical Fascism. A Clerical fascist regime in America could establish ethnostates, fucking invade europe and reconquer it, and establish a roman catholic monarchy of the entire western hemisphere.
Eli King
I disagree with your pro catholic vision, Mosley believed Catholics and Protestants must Co-exist to preserve Christianity and the nation’s of Europe.
Nolan Price
In some sense I can't really argue with the claim that intersectionalists make though. In order for the egalitarian communist utopia to be real you have to destroy everything that even looks like hierarchy. But that's trash and it leads to the same thing as Bolshevism or liberal capitalism: a ton of money concentrated in a few wealthy Jews' hands and a lot of starving peasants on alcohol or opium.
The only serious anticapitalists in 2018 are fascists and what remains of the old left.
Not all Nazis accept the Fuehrerprinzip tbf Brother.
Jacob Howard
Ah do you speak of strausserists which is a very rare ideology to find.
Landon Walker
Also memeflagging is for fags
Gabriel Cook
Yeah. I like Strasser but I wouldn't consider myself one.
Gavin Jones
Fuck ur ass, niggers.
Isaiah Gomez
(((Saudi))) puppet pls go
Aiden Watson
Fuck your goat mussie
Jaxson Rogers
I believe the same ecumenical approach. It would still have to be a Catholic Empire though.
Joseph Powell
Well then are you just a national socialist, i have not studied how many forms of Nazism there are I only know strausserism and the original point. If you believe in racial preservancd over class protection you are not a strausserist as I believe strausserints tend to reach out to other races.
Owen James
Hm, I had recently considered the benefiit of doing away with the 2 party uniparty in the US and forming a single party. Maybe some factions would inevitability form, but it would eliminate the party line issues that force politicians to hold a line. Almost like a parlimentary system, but with the American Democratic Republic as the framework. The 4 year terms are too short, I think a single 10 year term for an elected leader would be ideal.. I'm very interested in traditionalism now, and fascism has some points I see as ideal, while burning too hot and too fast in history, even considering the evil forces that have squelched it in the past.
I tool the fascism pill today, finally, but I think I might be more inspired by the imagery, architecture and traditionalism. I'd like to see a growing "exclusive club" movement where men network and build a parallel society modeled around those markers with a role model to inspire the path forward. I just don't feel comfortable with it being a governing system, but rather a system of peer pressure and voluntary safety net. Just jabbering a bit about it, something I long for in this lost world of dissolved identity.
Lincoln Perez
Again disagree forcing a Catholic empire would be damaging to european brotherhood as Slavs and anglos as well even Germans do not follow Catholicism, can a Catholic empire be in Italy? Absolutely but possibly no where else without causing hostilities, mosley’s Vision of a higher european council representing their ethnic groups was ideal for such a situation.
Carson Turner
Well user then your interest is not in vain, you see fascism in the USA would unfortunately have to be by radical action but all worth the momentum to cleanse america of degeneracy. Fascists in certain fields and luckily for you clerical fascists as well believe that once one party state turns to fascism that the majority ethnic group in this case once this violent revolution occurs will be whites, the white citizens will voice their laws and the politicians will enforce the laws the people choose.
Carson Cruz
I'm in line with Mosley on foreign policy, the whole Europe a Nation thing. The idea of a fascist international appeals to me as well- I'd even be willing to admit nonwhite fascists like Ba'athists or Japanese imperialists, though naturally I'm less friendly to them than other Europeans.
I think an explicitly Christian empire is sufficient. The PQ (both pagan and protestant) is a serious one, but cooperation between Europeans is more important than religious wars from which only Muslims and Jews can benefit.
Sebastian Richardson
I wouldn't force conversion on anyone or anything if you want to be a protestant I'm certainly not going to make you stop being one or lose any sovereignty. Ultimately I'm probably just saying that because I'm catholic and I'd love to have a Holy Roman Empire 2.0 scenario. I almost started to mention how I can't even fathom a protestant empire before I remembered literally the largest empire in history was protestant
Nathan Hernandez
well anglican i guess but close enough
Mason Gray
Yeah I would agree on a christian empire but ultimately there would have to be a king and he'd have to be either protestant or catholic. Pagans do present a problem though. Honestly I wouldn't persecute them but maybe they get their own PaganState or something to not contaminate the glory of the catholic monarchy.
Jacob James
It is not necessarily hostility towards other races but more of protecting your own from unfair economic actions and possible militarist invasion. As for the Christian pagan co-existence, while I agree it depends on who is in charge my preference would be Christianity over paganism but that is up to a certain area of people. Co-existence is possible with pagans but be warned pagans are very territorial.
Luke Murphy
I'm not even a muslim, you, braindead fucks, just using this flag since it looks cool.
Nicholas Campbell
>Wow you people are so stupid for not knowing something you couldn't have possibly known Lol
I re-translated the Fundamental Ideas by Giovanni Gentile from the Doctrine of Fascism to make it more understandable to modern n00bs, and numbered it's key points so you losers can spread it like bible AIDS. All you faggot LARPers better understand it properly before you love it, because it's not that edgy and is actually quite useful.
1. >Akin to any sound political conception, Fascism is action and it is thought, of which a doctrine comes forth, arising from the tradition of success, dwelling and working from within us all. (1.1) >As a political movement, Fascism has a phyiscal form pertaining to spacetime, however it also subsists in a metaphysical form, that additionally elevates it to a formula of truth behind historically successful thought (1.2). >We cannot succeed spiritually through simple human willpower without the recognition of opportunity, the fleeting and temporal moments whence we must act within a constrastingly permanent and universal reality, of which bears essence and life (1.3). >To understand men in multitude, one must understand man in solitude; and to understand such, one must understand reality and its laws (1.4). >There is no concept of statehood that is not fundamental to the concept of life: philosophy or intuition, a system of ideas that is realised through logical design or a vision of faith, nonethless it is always an organic conception of our world (1.5).
Robert Howard
>Fascism cannot merely be understood by observing it's aesthetics, such as party organisation, system of eduction, discipline etc. but one must take into consideration the act of creation, the means of conceiving life (2.1). >In a spiritual fashion, the Fascist perspective of reality does not soley encompass that of the material world, where life is anthrocentrically divided and governed by some natural law, which instincts are conditioned through egotism and momentary pleasure (2.2). >The Fascist does not consider himself to be part of an arbitrary collective, but to be in oneself, a spiritual manifestion of The Nation and it's body, a moral being bound by generations of individuals attuned to a mission that suppresses the instinct for survival itself, a duty to establish freedom for oneself from the limits of spacetime itself (2.3): >a life where one will deny his own will, sacrifice his particular interests through death,and realise his existential purpose in which we are all valued as a human beings (2.4).
Gavin Hill
>that pic SORRY FOR PARTY ROCKIN
Daniel Rodriguez
Brilliant user, I applaud your reach out to those who can’t understand the original doctrine.
>Hence Fascism is a form of spirituality, born from a repulsion of materialistic positivism of the 19th Century, and reborn from the weaknesses cultivated by the dawn of the 21st Century (3.1). >It is not rational to assume all information is derived from sensory experience alone, it rejects all negative doctrines that place the centre of life outside oneself,and with one's own free will he should create oneself in this world (3.2). >Fascism envisions an active man, dedicated and enthusiastic, and able to identify arising difficulties, and to be vigorously ready to face them (3.3). >Fascism conceives life as a struggle, where it it is up to the individual to foremostly dignify oneself as his own constructed instrument, wether the context is physical, moral or intellectual (3.4). >As above, so below, as such as it is for the individual, so is it for The Nation, and so for humanity itself (3.5). >Hence the high value of culture in all its forms; art, religion, science, and especially the utmost importance bestowed upon education (3.6). >The essential value of work is too of high value, with which one manipulates nature to create our world by whatever means (economics, politics, morality, intelligence etc.) (3.7).
Adrian Watson
spank you good sir
>This proper perception of life is evidently an ethical conception. It encompasses reality in its entirety, not just the realm dominated by human activity (4.1). >No action is removed from moral judgement; nothing in the world that can be stripped of value is facilitated by a sense of moral duty (4.2). >To a Fascist, life is therefore serious, austere and religious: orbiting a world predisposed by the moral and responsible power of the spirit (4.3). >The Fascist disdains the comfortable life (4.4).
Lucas Flores
>Fascism is a religious conception where one is viewed by their immanent relationship with a higher power, with an objective will that transcends the particular individual and elevates him to a conscious member of a spiritual society (5.1). >Those who view Fascism with mere opportunism, being materialistically drawn to its militant methods of government, fail to realise that the true intention of Fascism, above all things, is to be a religious system of thought (5.2).
Cooper Young
>Historic Fascism is a rebirth of an ancient conception, that one is not merely his own body, but also a function to a spiritual process, where one is consistently contributing to one another, through family, society. and a larger scale, humanity itself, where all nations collaborate together (6.1). >Hence the great value of tradition in the memories, language, customs, and in social norms, outside of history, mankind is nothing (6.2). >Fascism is against all the materialistic abstractions, and is against all utopian fanaticism (6.3). >It can not be believed that happiness is attainable as dogmatically outlined by advertisement or propaganda, the notion that there is an objective finale, which humanity is predestined to achieve, is adamantly rejected (6.4). >Fascism asserts that life is continuously flowing and becoming anew, professing a pragmatic political system; an aspiration for one, as an individual and as a Nation, to become self-sufficient, capable of developing his own solutions for his own problems (6.5). >For man to succeed amongst his peers, one must abide by the laws of nature and reality and become a master of action (6.6).
William Robinson
>The Fascist conception of the State pertains to a conscience and universal will that has belonged to mankind for its entire existence (7.1). >Repulsed by individualism and classical liberalism, which have arisen from the exhausted need to react to absolutism, The State transforms the sensetive will of the individual to that of the collective (7.2). >Liberalism denies the State's involvement in the private interests of the individual; Fascism reaffirms the State as the true reality of the individual (7.3). >If liberty is a genuine attribute of mankind, and not abstract puppetry and imprisonment, then Fascism is for true liberty, not individualistic liberalism (7.4). >The only freedom that can be seriously considered is the freedom of the State and the individuals within it, since everything is one within the State, outside of which nothing, human nor spiritual, exists (7.5). >Fascism is totalitarian as the State is the synthesis and unity of all the values, interpretations, developments and lifestyles of the people, and develops their potential (7.6).
Dylan Mitchell
>anticapitalists >fascists Really, wtf?
Benjamin Edwards
>Neither individuals nor groups are outside of the State (8.1). >Fascism opposes the socialisms, classisms and unionisms invested in any historical movements pertaining to class struggles, ignoring the fact that the State merges all classes into one economic and moral reality (8.2). >Fascism however recognises the original quarrels struggles of the classes, from which socialism and trade unions originate, and through the value of Corporatism, all interest groups are to be reconciled in the unity of the State (8.3).
Zachary Flores
Mosley was a great man. It's a shame he's been buried under history. I only learned about him just recently.
Leo Bailey
Yes
Easton Peterson
>Individuals form classes according to their economic interests; unions are differentiated according to their mutual economic activities, they are first and foremost of the State (9.1). >People are not numbers, where the sum of individuals forming a majority does not accurately represent the people (9.2). >Fascism is against democracy that compares the people to the majority, adapting to the lower standards of the most; but the purest form of democracy is when the people are consulted qualitatively and not quantitatively (9.3); >and the most powerful idea, wether most moral, coherent or true etc. is implemented, even if it is on the conscience will of the few, decisions should be made based upon what the people actually want and need, as opposed to what they think they want (9.4). >Of all those who naturally formed a historic Nation, conceived it as a totality with the same religious thought, with one conscience and one will (9.5). >The Nation is subject to no race, behaviour, nor a geographically defined region, but a traditional perpetuating lineage, of which the multitude unifies through the desire of its own existence and power: to become aware of oneself and form a personality. (9.6).
Hudson Jackson
What is your issue user?
Adrian Garcia
>The Nation is this supreme personality, not merely a country like contemporary 'nation-states' (10.1). >It is not the Nation that generates the State, rather the Nation is created by the State,, giving people who are aware of their moral unity, a conscious will, and therefore an actual existence (10.2). >The right of the Nation to realise its independence derives not from the literary abstraction, let alone a situation that is more or less unconscious and inert (10.2), >but from an active consciousness, an ongoing political will, set on course to demonstrate its birthright: out of the preexisting State that is already in progress. (10.3). >The State is in fact the universal and ethical will, it is the creator of law (10.4).
