Hey Sup Forums, why wouldn't a starship troopers type of state work? If you serve the state in a hard/dangerous line of work, and once you "get out" you are allowed to vote as a privilege, what would be the downsides?
The thought process behind it is that if you are willing to possibly sacrifice yourself for the safety of the nation, then you can be trusted to vote in its interest. My thoughts on jobs that would guarantee citizenship: Combat MOS's for the military, State Police, information sensitive positions like the FBI, CIA, military intel, and also Officers.
I'd only support this for very small numbers. We don't want an entire army full of immigrants waiting to turn on us. With intelligence, I suppose we could use some guys as spys in foreign countries and take them home with us, but I think that already happens.
Jackson Harris
Any retard can throw their body on the line. They're still retarded at the end of the day and have no business having any say in affairs of the state.
Go read some Plato kid
Austin Rogers
Only works with a conscription army.
Professional militaries are full of degenerates who probably shouldn't be citizens, anyway.
Ryan Cox
Well, the military in my opinion is more focused on getting things done as compared to the other public sectors. That experience, as well as the "shit has to get done otherwise we die/get fucked" would probably help push for more unity and strength in government and voting. Well, I think compulsory service in the form of forcing people who do not already have jobs at the age of 18 (ie NEET's) should be put into training programs and stuff like infrastructure construction programs and roads. But a professional army is where we are at, conscription isn't going to come back.
Leo Wilson
How do you mean "very small numbers"? Do you mean small, localized areas/nations, or a small number of actually eligible voters?
Zachary Rogers
Wouldn't work for long, disent from the underclass would result in an uprising because to maintain your concept, you'd need to be in constant war wit hsomeone. It worked in starship troopers because they had a far away enemy on klandathu or whatever. On earth they would have to make up with undenighable proof that an alien species was at war with us to get a global society willing to work toward advancing tech to travel in space more important that conquest for resources on earth as it is now.
Ayden Sullivan
Just to clarify, all people would have to go through this program. Any new people born in the USA would have to go through this program, their citizenship would not be automatic.
I don't know, "war" could be economical. Construction squads and infrastructure groups at war with nature and the established and decaying world could help sustain this government, as well as the fact that there is no shortage of foreign conflicts the USA can create/exploit. So long as the rest of the underdeveloped world is in chaos, perpetuated by us, we can keep such a war government continuing.
Jacob Clark
>So long as the rest of the underdeveloped world is in chaos, perpetuated by us,
This is what I mean, you'd collectivly need other countries to side with you and follow the same path or you become the next (((buzzword))) country tyranny. Then everyone gangs up on you for warmongering injustices. Your constant war with everyone would result in massive potiential voting citizens dying enmasse.
Hunter Ross
I mean you are right, but we've done OK so far with our "peacekeeping" missions and such. From Contras to Cubans to "Canadians" in the Middle East, we've kept busy, likely from our government pushing us to keep busy.
Side note being that peoples born not in the USA/country would not be eligible for service, only people (residents) of the country who were born there and whose parents were both born here can serve.
Robert Gray
>Any retard can throw their body on the line. Has nothing to do with intelligence, you spineless beta bitch. Showing that you're willing to defend the body politic with your life garners the right to vote.
Jaxon Foster
Well, that and you have to survive. Only people who finish their service can vote.
Landon Ortiz
Thats how the roman republic originally worked. Cavallary and 5 ranks of infantry all voted if the did anything for the state. So the military decided everything in the end
Aaron Sanders
>the vast majority all vote-eligible people will be borderline-retarded whites who were too useless to be anything else >but is ok because muh bravery I guess it can't get any worse than it already is
Brody Anderson
Well, they have to be smart enough and political enough to not die and work as a team, in both combat and top-secret shit. Mistakes mean death or dishonor.
Mason Ross
then only the good goyim can vote so its not a good idea
Adam Price
You know for a short term solution to todays political climate a citizen born new government would work well under that government concept of >thread topic
Cameron Nguyen
I think it means we have tech that will blow the public's mind. >those crazy UFO vids from the D.O.D. >conditioning us?
Julian Gomez
Yeah, hopefully. I know from history that any system entrenched long enough will sink into itself, which is why I think the most stable state would be one that changes radically over the course of generations. For a lifetime, a military republic like thread, and then for an equal lifetime, a direct democracy with citizenship as a right. So long as change is regulated and well organized, disruption and interregnums will dissipate.
William Watson
It should be a voting system that amplifies the votes of individuals based on their service to the state >Millitary Service =+ 1 vote >Children Number =+ # vote >Pay Range Over $50k =+ 1 vote >Business Owner =+ 1 vote So an ex-marine with 4 children making over $50,000 as a business owner would get (1 + 4 + 1 + 1 = +7) 8 votes in his name. Someone with none of those qualities gets their baseline one vote.
Dylan Richardson
Rome had something like that, right before it fell.
Noah Carter
>a direct democracy with citizenship as a right.
Plus maintaining mandatory military service for youths would weed out the unfit.
Ian Parker
It would work just fine. Sup Forums wont like it because its a civic concept and they want to make only tiny ethnostates and live in hutts instead of conquering the stars
Daniel Brooks
Well, it would certainly increase birthrates and help conservatives. I do think, however, that pay and business owner would be concerning. Too much red-tape and such involved in deciding. Children counting is easy, but money? Is that after or before taxes, is it based on net-production to the nation, or gross production? It also limits upward mobility. Fitness is important for the health of the mind, yes.
Dylan Rogers
also it should be stated that there were other paths to citizenship in starship troopers.
Benjamin Adams
That breaks down to an uncomplicated 0 votes vs 1 vote. However it does pacify non-citizens with a vote at least to their own voice in government, it might be a problem if they outnumber the voters though.
Kevin Bennett
If you join the French foreign legion, after 5 years you can get a citizenship or if you get wounded you get one "on the spot" its called "Français par le sang versé" ("French by spilled blood").
>State Police, information sensitive positions like the FBI, CIA, military intel, and also Officers Go read the text between that FBI cuck and his whore. Those """people""" are as mindless as the average nigger on the street.
>Hey Sup Forums, why wouldn't a starship troopers type of state work? Because you wouldnt be able to actually implement it, same as all daydream political systems
Gavin Brown
Previous voluntary military service, currently employed, married, and with a family should be the the requirements to vote.
Justin Fisher
>Why wouldn't a country of mercenaries produce a cohesive and functioning society? It's a genuine mystery
Jack Rogers
Why do you think that?
I've read the book, and I don't think it's a great idea, but in my opinion it would be considerably easier than the current system, due the the limited number of potential voters.
Because then it turns into a situation just like the book where everyone gets bugfucked because the ruling nation got too greedy in its expansion.
Tyler Wright
Eh, I mean I get where you are coming from, but Cops are pretty knowledgable on the real world in terms of social interaction. FBI and CIA are also effective extensions of external influence and investigation, so fairly knowledgeable groups. >Wouldn't a country full of people who understand the need to get shit done produce a cohesive and functioning society? Why are we still here, just to suffer?
Sebastian Lewis
The phrase "service guarantees citizenship" is misleading because in the book service gets you voting rights, not citizenship.
Juan Martinez
You have that completely backwards. Service isn't special for conscription. Only in neo-liberal capitalist societies is that the case. Ideally, there should be two years of conscripted service in the public sector, stuff like road building, etc. An all volunteer force makes the most sense for the US anyway do to population size.
Anthony Johnson
Yes, I probably should have said as much in the opening lines. In the theoretical state, being born here = citizenship completion of service = voting rights
Nathaniel Davis
I don't know any police officers but I would guess they are the same mix of retards, good and bad as the general population.
CIA are literally agents of the shadow government, their goals and aspirations are not yours or mine.
Landon Collins
Yes, but it would be incompatible with an ethnostate. It would be a civic national state, but based on the strength of Sparta rather than the weakness of Athens
Aaron Ortiz
You sound like a puppet of baby raping Kikes.
Leo Harris
The 1950's was extremely cohesive and functioning if not somewhat decadent. Conscription is a good thing for society, as it increases social order.
Michael Mitchell
>service guarantees citizenship I don't think that appears in the book at all. I liked the movie and need to rewatch it, but the director likes to claim he didn't even read the book.
There is some good shit in there about homosexuality too, but I don't have my notes to hand.
Josiah Wilson
I'm 27 and start to wonder if it is a bit late. I've learned that I can join the US Army, Navy, Marines or the Air Force by simply going to the US Embassy and apply
Bentley Rivera
Is interaction with the dregs of society, the most degenerate and barbaric, not able to generate a people who understand these types exist? I should have explained earlier. Born/heritage proof = citizenship but not voting Completion of service (requires citizenship) = voting rights.
Matthew Rodriguez
>If you serve the state in a hard/dangerous line of work Does shitposting here for 14 years count?
>interaction with the dregs of society, the most degenerate and barbaric I imagine it turns you into a hate-filled rage machine. Just like Sup Forums
Juan Russell
Well, considering I am italian, you are probably not wrong.
Thomas Turner
Don't worry, you'll be drafted into service more beneficial and rewarding to the nation and its people.
Ian Campbell
You do realize this was a work of satire, yes?
Dominic Howard
Thanks for clarifying
Connor King
And Czar Nicholas II implementation of further autonomy for towns in the 1890's was supposed to be a joke too, but it led to greater industrial and economic development.
Dominic Martinez
I'll serve my country by killing Kikes and tyrants. The rest of that shit you can shove up your ass.
Ryder Richardson
Also voting is for slaves and illegals.
Gavin Harris
If they can use 1984 as a legitimate blueprint for their ambitions i see no reason we cant use starship troopers.
Lincoln Lopez
I see the glow-in-the-dark D&C opticless fag has arrived in full force.
Easton Parker
I'm a mental weapon, senpai. My government doesn't exactly trust me.
Ryder Foster
Kek, I can't argue with either of these points. It would certainly lead to a fuckload less "nation destroying" kinds of policies being enacted.
Andrew Wood
Net tax contributors can vote. This creates Gibs equilibrium. If you vote yourself services beyond your contribution, continuing to receive this largesse is at the discretion of the remaining net contributors. Will skew voters male and conservative. Only reasonable programs people actually support out of goodness will remain.
Jonathan Mitchell
Not the book, there's a whole chapter or two where the protagonist's teacher is arguing for it and challenging the students. At best, you can say it's neutral on the issue and is just exploring the idea.
Jacob Cook
How do you mean? I think we would certainly destroy OTHER nations, those easily susceptible to toppling, but yes, we would probably be more nation-unified here in the USA. I think that in theory this is great, but in practice it may be more difficult to track.
Jason Hill
>Amerimutts unironically want to fill their military's command and intelligence agencies with foreigners You are not very smart
Grayson Ward
>probably be more nation-unified here That's how I meant. Politicians would be far less eager to go against the nation's interests when everyone determining their career's fate put service & familial blood into it's building up & defending.
Joseph Sanders
It would probably require a streamlined tax system. Although keeping lifetime tax records is very easy. Interestingly, voting age would be based entirely off productivity. College students and neets btfo, working class votes early and often.
Angel Ross
Any system where votes matter is communist. Go away commie.
Jonathan Jenkins
Maybe tighten the requirements a bit. You must have a clean record and make it to at least some sort of command position.
Daniel Ramirez
I forgot to post in the OP. Born here (and probably having parents born here as well to stop anchor babies) = Citizenship (residency) Having citizenship and completing service = voting rights. I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I don't want the flood of immigrants shit. It is dangerous in terms of combat and intelligence community for foreigners to come willy-nilly. That is true. It is certainly an interesting topic, but it would likely chase profits over internal stability/cohesion, which is concerning. Nonetheless, a very interesting concept.
Charles Collins
I got mixed with between Starship Troopers and Joe Haldermans 'Forever War'
A quote from ST (maybe a quote) >The noblest fate that a man can endure is to place his own mortal body between his loved home, and the wars desolation.
On communism; >Of course, the Marxian definition of value is ridiculous; all the work one cares to add will not turn a mud pie into an apple tart, it remains a mud pie. Value: zero. By correlate, unskillful work can easily subtract value. An untalented cook can turn wholesome dough and fresh green apples, valuable already, into an inedible mess. Value: zero. >Conversely, a great chef can fashion of those same materials a confection of greater value than the commonplace apple tart. With no more effort than an an ordinary chef uses to prepare an ordinary sweet. >These kitchen illustrations demolish the Marxian theory of value. The fallacy from which the entire magnificent of communism derives, and illustrate the truth of the commonsense definition as measured in terms of use.
Yes, much of the issue I have with communism is the definition of useful labor, because the best way to determine useful labor in a market economy is to let automatic market forces act. Of course, there are natural market cyclical trends where command>free markets, namely in the loosening and tightening of economic and market restrictions throughout history. Socialism and fascism works well in "crashed" economies, but only as a stabilizer and short-term improvement tool. Free markets work well as the inbetween from the short-term improvement until its crash.
Daniel Bailey
Ah ty I forgot about that apple tart quote. There really isn't too much right leaning sci-fi is there?
Daniel Green
Could be, they were both definitely militaristic. We don't know that much about Spartan government, all men had to join the military and all men got to vote. Now I want to know if they were related.
Wyatt King
Hard work and physical fitness make people more racist and right wing. We can't have that. How would Jamal get involved? His culture is about sitting around all day doing nothing. In that kind of society he would have no place.
Jace Mitchell
;)
Robert Evans
this
Sebastian Stewart
He even talks about high crime rates >"This incredible sequence could go on for years while his crimes increased in frequency and viciousness, with no punishment whatever save rare dull-but-comfortable confinements. Then suddenly, usually by law on his eighteenth birthday, this so-called ‘juvenile delinquent’ becomes an adult criminal — and sometimes wound up in only weeks or months in a death cell awaiting execution for murder." >"...the time-tested method of instilling social virtue and respect for law in the minds of the young did not appeal to a pre-scientific pseudo-professional class who called themselves ‘social workers’ or sometimes ‘child psychologists.’ It was too simple for them, apparently, since anybody could do it, using only the patience and firmness needed in training a puppy. I have sometimes wondered if they cherished a vested interest in disorder — but that is unlikely; adults almost always act from conscious ‘highest motives’ no matter what their behavior." A bit too civic nationalist for Sup Forums I think.
The average ASVAB/AQFT score among veterans is 50. If you even know what the addition symbol looks like you've gotten a higher score than this.
It hasn't always been this way but the reality is that the military is, statistically speaking, the dregs of society who we have to put on a pedestal.
Connor Hill
I mean, considering that any military trained individuals will be loyal to the select democratic regime, and non-loyalists will have no impact on the pre-rebellion state, I'd say the internal security of such a state would be higher than any state we have today. Leftists today want to rid the rights of gun ownership, but with a military democracy, we would see gun rights for all, but utilized by the ex-military primarily. I see you have returned. Why didn't you reply to me earlier, mon ami?
Elijah Diaz
>Czar Nicholas II implementation of further autonomy for towns Please give me link about this. Thx.
Thomas King
Plato was a faggot with a shit body
Landon Gutierrez
Once you've shaken hands with Thanatos in Shitcanistan alcohol becomes your dearest companion. The stupidity of civilian life becomes overbearing once you realize all your efforts were in vain.
Elijah Ward
I've poor news, it is from somewhere in a book I read about the rise and fall of the soviet union from 1891-1991. It is called "Revolutionary Russia:1891-1991". Very good book for understanding the precursor to the soviet regime, in my opinion.
Oliver Diaz
Yes, this is a section I was looking for but didn't write down a decent bookmark for. Good stuff. Sup Forumsrightwingsci-fi/ is sadly not a thing /RWSF/ and /RWDS/ should go hand in hand.
Christopher Watson
It just occured to me that in the movie they alluded to the fact that if you wanted to have children you had to serve also.
Brandon Clark
You bring up good points. I think if there is a way to push for the boot-camp discipline for people generally and solve these mental health issues, then the feasibility will be more plausible.
Jason Collins
Oh fuck. I think it was that if you wanted more than one kid you had to serve. This would be great for conservative people within the USA.
That a supreme idea but keep it to mutting. Better kill all deep state and military to accive world peace. Kill Pence and Sessions. Especially Sessions that pedophile.
If you had started from the context of the book, not the piece of crap movie, I would go along with it. If you have not read the book, I suggest you do so. It outlines a functional political philosophy which includes military service, yet is not limited to military service.
Ethan Morgan
Will do, thanks for encouraging me user. World peace will not come when you kill the military people, the internal drive within all of humanity to kill out of fear of being killed exists throughout history and will remain. The goal of the state is to control those energies into fruitful exercises.
Nathaniel Bell
Is 'end world hunger' a euphemism for euthenics in africa?
Nathaniel Garcia
>euthenics Heh, it's the auto complete for 'eugenics' fuck firefox
John Davis
Don't overthink it with Service etc. It's really really simple; "Are you a Net Tax Contributor?"
Work out the cost of everyone per year on average in government services.
As long as you're putting in more than you're taking out, you're eligible for a vote.
Once that sort of Democracy is enacted, much more "fascist" sorts of policies will follow along after.
And as a benefit with this model: Service Guarantees Citizenship!