Did he REALLY deserve that punishment?

Did he REALLY deserve that punishment?

No, that's why Saki put him out of his misery.

So did they rip his brain out or turn hin in to a tumor?
And no he did not deserve it to be taken that far.
The humans were just being spiteful.

He was basically burned, skinned, mutilated, etc... multiple times and then healed back again. Over time he lost organs, sight and any sense of awareness due to the pain.

Basically mitty from MiA but over the years.

But i was asking that mound of flesh. Looked like they turned him into a tumor where there was nothing but pain.

The healing they made was basically accelerating cell reproduction, these cells probably made mistakes. Over time all these mistakes added up and he became just a blob in a jar.

It's not clear but it looks like his flesh is being turned inside out, bloated and deformed.

He didn't deserve it, that's the whole point.

Yes

Absolutely

>Did he REALLY deserve that punishment?
He committed the crime of killing the cantus users who are responsible for the stability of the region.
Nigger, the council tried over and over to turn into negotiation and stop his nonsensical with Kiomaru but instead of responding honestly, he tried the single most obvious back stabbing flattery. He is so full of himself that he thinks that the cantus users are the enemy and that he can actually be able to rule over the world when it is written right in the face that if not for the council, there would be complete chaos on the world.

Does he deserve an eternity of punishment?
No. No one does. But boy does he deserve over a hundred years of pain and suffering for such insolence

>Did he REALLY deserve that punishment?
Yes. Every seconds of it. And even more.

>he thinks that the cantus users are the enemy
and he is right you dumbfucker, did you even geet the end ? He and all of his people are like that because cantus user are fucked in the head for thinking they should rule the world.

You forgot: 1000 years ago
And if he is fighting for justice, he wouldn't steal those children

But the actual cantus user still think of himself as god and enslave these "news human being" so fuck them

Literally no one does. Sqeaulers punishment is proof that the subhuman PKers were a mistake should've been gased.

Enslave?
Nigga, they are all free to do whatever they want. They care so little about them that they never learned about the arrival of foreign invaders and Squeeler's coup against their queen until Kiomaru and Saki reported it

>and he is right
Everything the Cantus users did was for the survival of their own race not to rule over everything and this made that incredibly paranoid to the point where they thought killing children was the safest bet of survival. Squealer LITERALLY wanted to be the dominate species because he thought it was his right after the Cantus users lied for years it was not for the lives of his own kind ( hell he purposely agitated and disturbed the tranquility of the colonies to carry out his own plan) and not even his own kind liked him given that Kiromaru placed the hope of his species of the Canrus users over him.
>But the actual cantus user still think of himself as god
No they didn't. That was the old way of thinking, the ones who we're introduced to in the story just want to survive. They literally couldn't give less of a shit about what the queerats do just as long as it doesn't disrupt the tranquility.

>fighting for justice, he wouldn't steal those children
Kiroumaru was planning to find a weapon to wipe out the humans and that's ok? But somehow Sqeauler securing his weapons is not ok? He had no ulterior motives with the children otherwise, he was didn't do anything wrong.

The canthus users were the cause of all the freaky issues from the start. The molerats were the actual humans that were forcefully mutated to get under control. In fact the canthus users wiped out entire colonies of molerats for any mistakes. All you really have to do is imagine the canthus and the molerats positions being switched but that would annoy most seeing rats abuse the human looking canthus users. The blame is on the canthus users for not wiping out the regular humans and keeping them around as slaves

No, specially considering the council originally knew what the queerats are

>cantus faggots who leak cancer over the world
>if not for the council, there would be complete chaos on the world (which is their fault)
They are living in a bubble to protect themselves from the mess they caused themselves for their own benefit.

I was about to tip my fedora at this post till I read to the end, now I tip my MAGA hat.

The difference is that Kiomaru did it legally by reading between the lines and searched for it elsewhere.
Squeeler did it by capturing a living library which is equivalent to owning WMDs and violating treaties and justifying an invasion

And to make matters worse: he killed two people for their children and spread out lies.

That's a given fact and they are all aware of it. Such is why the council was created in order to protect themselves from themselves. If Squeler was on the right side, he would kill all pk users and bring balance back to the world. But no, he captured children in order to start world conquest, unknowngly ignitting the verything that the council fears the most - the arrival of Akumas, Karmic demons, and uncontrolled leakage of psychic powers

He is a power hungry dictator. Not a hero
The PK users are a cancer to the world but they just wanted to live with everyone else, peracefully

Yes

The thing is, the human race in shinsekaiyori only cared about practically preserving humanity at all cost. For this goal, they even killed kids who were spreading ill emotions to other kids. Was it too much to make that rat suffer eternally? You should clarify from whose perspective it was "too much". For the current humanity, it was a consistent, pragmatic, and completely rational decision.

Nobody deserves eternal torture. Peopel seem to underestimate the significance of eternity

>Kiomaru did it legally by reading between the lines and searched for it elsewhere.
I don't even have an appropriate response for this. """Legally"""? Queerrats are monsters to them and don't have human rights or follow human laws. And it doesn't matter anyway, both had the same goal which was to wipe out the humans. Also we don't know for sure if kiroumaru and sqeaueler had a living library, they probably both had one.

>>he killed two people for their children and spread out lies
>REEEEEE THINK OF THE TWO (2) CHILDREN, H-HE WAS A LIAR TOO
Literally doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, killing two children to secure your weapon and liberate your race is a no brainier. No one bats an eye at the thousands of queerrat deaths.

That war wasn't some honorable game where they had to be restricted in going about winning. It was a literal race war to prevent his species from being stomped on for all eternity. Squealer did what he had to do to try winning and he lost which is fine. Pretending they should appease the canthus users is retarded. It's funny that you keep crying about the two children when canthus users have wiped entire colonies of queerats for likely lesser transgressions.

Bitch, they have rights
Why else would the council force them to the negotiation table?
They have rights not because they should, but because anyone who kills any living creature without remorse is a strong sign of an Akuma in the making

Yes, reading between the lines is legal. It was not legal to send arms into space but since anti-missile defenses are not weapons, the US is planning to launch laser satelites that can shoot down ICBMs...and even other satellites.

Kiomaru have no living library. They don't even have concrete houses as proven by Saki's surprise over Squeeler's progress

The children are our equivalent of government officials. They hold authority over the land and are deemed superior due to their powers. Killing them for no reason would result into the council questioning everyone, badly.

Muder of the 2 is bad enough but he raised a pk user without any knowledge how. And he trainied him to kill for godssake. That shit would result into an Akuma after a few more months

.>because anyone who kills any living creature without remorse is a strong sign of an Akuma in the making
Humans literally eradicated all queerats aside from Kiomaru's clan without a single thought and they only left his clan because he turned traitor and striked a deal.

You forgot that it is only done by a trained elite who were ordered by the elite who studied the situation carefully.
The punishment is fucked up because their history is fucked up.

No one is right. One is just less evil

>killing humans to liberate your race vs sentencing people to eternal pain and eradicating an entire race

Yeah this one's a no brainer.

No person who have ever existed, not even the worst monsters in history, deserve such a fate. When someone is too dangerous to live and impossible to reason with, you don't sink to their level with cruel revenge, you end their misery with a bullet to the head.

>Squealer had the intelligence necessary to work towards coexistence
>Ruined it by trying to be a halfassed Hitler instead

Dumb rat

Please tell me your not actually thinking that Squeeler was aiming for liberation.

You fuckers are the very reason why terrorist organizations exists. Always thinking that the government must be turned over without knowning how things would get worse if there's nothing to fill the power vacuum.

Fighting the system is easy and glorified. Replacing it with a better one is difficult and a few upset citizxens are enough to demonize everyone ruling it.
Get a mature world view, fucker

>Squealer is evil because he captured a living library which isn't "legal" and he didn't play by the rules
Literally the worst argument for why Sqeauler is evil that I've ever seen.

No one is allowed to have it because it holds too much dangerous information, user.
It's our equivalen to owning nuke warheads; if you are not oermitted for it, you will be invaded

>Squealer LITERALLY wanted to be the dominate species because he thought it was his right
He didn't want to be the dominant species, he just didn't want non-cantus users to live under the boot of cantus users you fucking goober. If you were a member of a population that was routinely wiped out for minor infractions (say, not going through the proper bureaucratic channels imposed on you by another society), a population that was used as slave labour, a population entirely at the mercy of a far smaller and more powerful group, you'd do anything you could to escape such a miserable, precarious existence.

>And to make matters worse: he killed two people for their children and spread out lies.
Who gives a shit? "Oh, squealer lied, oh, he killed two people, oh he wanted to kill cantus users" -- revolutions are bloody, there's no escaping that, but what evils Squealer did in an attempt to achieve freedom for the mass of the existing human population (remember, cantus users are far and away the minority in this world) pale in comparison to the genocide, brainwashing, and child-killing that's just a matter of course for the cantus user society.

I have no idea how anyone could not root for Squealer, or how anyone had any empathy for the cantus users. The Queerats, despite a biologically-imposed monarchy, managed to democratize and industrialize practically overnight, whereas the cantus users had regressed to the point where they're basically living feudalistic lives, exploiting and massacring queerats, and murdering children.

You're a moron and a hypocrite if you defend the existence of the cantus society while criticizing Squealer's tactics to bring about a more democratic world.

Squeeler had all the freedom he wanted. How else could they achieve so much progress without anyone is the council knowing about it until Saki brought it up?

He had it and he wanted more

>Please tell me your not actually thinking that Squeeler was aiming for liberation.
Nothing suggests he wasn't aiming for liberation, nothing suggests the democratic society he brought about was corrupt, and nothing suggests he had anything but compassion for his fellow non-cantus users.

>Always thinking that the government must be turned over without knowning how things would get worse if there's nothing to fill the power vacuum.
Squealer basically organized the democratization and industrialization of massive populations of queerats overnight -- wiping out cantus users means nothing more than not worrying about being massacred by a small population of far more powerful god-like beings (oh, and I guess it also means you don't have to slave away doing menial labour for them). How would Queerat life get any worse if there were no cantus users?

Anyone else feel good that the reg humans aka queerats will likely get canthus like powers eventually due to still being human and btfo canthus users

>Squeeler had all the freedom he wanted.
So, ostensibly, did Kiroumaru, the most honourable and loyal of queerats, but even he was so terrified of the wrath of cantus users (which he says is often unpredictable) that he sought to wipe out cantus users.

Queerats live at the mercy of a small population of god-like beings that can (and regularly do) wipe out entire populations of queerats overnight -- struggling to get out of this system isn't "wanting more" or being greedy you absolute rube, it's wanting to be able to exist without fear of annihilation constantly weighing on you.

Proven by how he abused the ghost tribe, stole children, and tried to offer negotiation towards Saki in order to trick them into uncovering?

He is a backstabbing cunt.

Wiping out cantus users would do great things to the environment but he didn't. He didn't because he was not aiming for liberation but world conquest using powers he does not understand

An idiot playing god

>Always thinking that the government must be turned over without knowning how things would get worse if there's nothing to fill the power vacuum.
But then they get better until they get worse again. History shows all governments eventually degenerate into immoral states working against their own people. When that happens, the current government needs to be either taken down and replaced by a new one, absorbed by a stronger foreign Nation or go down together with their civilization.
The important thing is that mankind lives on and progress continues, one way or the other.

>Proven by how he abused the ghost tribe, stole children, and tried to offer negotiation towards Saki in order to trick them into uncovering?
All this was done in service of liberating queerat populations you dumbass. He was well aware that he did contemptible things -- but what he did was for the end of liberation. Literally nothing he says or does suggests he was going to betray the queerats he liberated (and "backstabbing" a population that routinely massacres queerats is hardly proof that he would turn his back on his own people).

Of course but the keyword there is "mercy"
It is illegal to kill any rats other than self defense and doing otherwise would get the council on your ass. None of them acts out of whim

Kiomaru is not afraid of the cantus users and talked to Saki as frank as anyone because he is a law abiding citizen.

Oh my fucking god, you had just justified every single terrorist attack on the US.

Did he deserve punishment for all eternity?

I'd be inclined to say no, untill I realized he tried to doom humanity to extinction - an equally permanent enterprise.

I'd say he got punishment the size of his own ambition to crime.

Saki putting him out of his misery was more of a guilt-trip than anything else.

Haha no

Look at Iran after Sadam was turned over. Or Rome after it fell. Or the Germanic tribes after winning their freedom. Or Africa after the Brits removed their colonies

Keyword there is leiberation. Liberation from whom? The people who are keeping the balance of the world?

Have fun defending the act of stealing cantus users for the sake of """""Liberation"""""

>Kiomaru is not afraid of the cantus users and talked to Saki as frank as anyone because he is a law abiding citizen.
How is he "not afraid of cantus users" if he literally sought out a doomsday weapon to wipe them out? And again, he specifically says to Saki that he sought this weapon because the wrath of cantus users is often unpredictable and not particularly transparent -- he says this almost word-for-word when he's describing why he sought out the doomsday weapon to Saki you fucking moron.
It doesn't make any sense to map Shinsekai Yori's politics onto contemporary politics you goober.

>Liberation from whom?
You already know the answer this you dense fuck. If anything the PK'er are ruining the balance of the world by leaking their powers, not saving it.

>The people who are keeping the balance of the world?
What fucking balance you moron? The cantus users exist only to propagate (or "balance" to use your own retarded wording) their own shitty, evil society. Getting rid of the cantus users literally liberats queerats (the overwhelming mass of the human population in Shinsekai Yori) from a society that routinely massacres large populations of queerats (and a population that massacres its own children as a matter of course).

Good riddance.

Yes and Squeeler is totally going to fix it by doing everything that must not be done to prevent the rise of Akumas
Dumbasses

>iran after sadam
lol.

Also, Saddam wasn't toppled by any sort of Iraqi-led revolution -- he was toppled by a brutal invading force that threw the entire country (and later, region) into chaos. Hardly comparable to queerats doing away with their oppressors

He isn't.
They gave up and lived peacefully with the pk users

If all filthy PKers are purged then Akumas will cease to exist.

Of course which is why Squeeler took their children, right?

He gave up because the area was too dangerous for queerats to navigate, and every attempt he made failed, not because he was right happy to live under the boot of cantus users.

Again, he had the intent to massacre all cantus users precisely because living under fear of complete, unpredictable annihilation is unbearable.
You don't have to worry about cantus users gone wrong if there are no cantus users you dope.

The children were tools that he used to wipe out the human race, obviously he would dispose of them after he finished his goal. What, you think he would just keep a bunch of humans lying around considering that one of them can literally kill his entire race?

>Of course which is why Squeeler took their children, right?
He took the child because it was the best shot at creating something that could rival cantus users power you absolute drip.

>tries to wipe out an entire sector of society to ensure non espers' survival
>gets fucked and becomes a slave race instead
>"now we want democracy"
Karma is a bitch. Next time they should ensure they're actually able to carry out the deed before trying, maybe then they'd have realized coexisting, or at least silently subverting, was the easier option. But they had to be dumb, now they'll eternally pay for it.

>their own shitty, evil society
Are you implying normal genocidal humans were any better? They're all cunts, but for some reason you're only empathetic towards the losers.

>Getting rid of the cantus users literally liberats queerats
Robespierre would be proud.
How come killing is acceptable in this case, but defending yourself from genocidal normal humans isn't?

Reminder that Squealer did literally nothing wrong

Yes, yes. Training a cantus user to kill would totally be a good idea. Just look at how a single untrained Akuma ruined their history.

Great stuff

It's not a good idea, but it was his best shot of wiping out the humans. Stop moving the goalpost.

>Are you implying normal genocidal humans were any better?
I'm saying the queerats -- who overthrew a biologically-imposed monarchy, instituted democratic governance and industrialized overnight -- are less evil than a society based on constant genocide and child-murder, and I don't think this is a particularly controversial claim.
>How come killing is acceptable in this case
Because any revolution is going to result in violence and death. Ultimately, it's worth it, because it liberates the vast bulk of the human population in Shinsekai Yori's world (a population with a far more equitable society at that).

You are aware Squealer's cantus users are unable to hurt queerats, making them completely safe, right?

It was a fine idea, and more than this, the failsafe worked, and the cantus user died the moment it killed a queerat. Use the weapon to massacre cantus users, kill the weapon, continue spreading democracy and industry to the rest of the queerat population -- this sounds a hell of a lot better than letting the cantus user's society continue killing their kids and massacring thousands of queerats for not doing the proper paperwork.

You misunderstand his character. He didn't give up because he "wanted peace and love" with the humans.

He dresses and acts like a delusional feudal jap idiot and his goal was to save his clan which is what he did. He's literally just a race traitor, he didn't want his queen to not be glorified and begged the psychics not to murder her after Sqeauler switched from an imperialistic society. At the end his clan was saved and every other clan was purged.

Best shot?
The kid is barely 8 years old. Just wait another year and he would turn into an uncontrollable Akuma that spews out powers that ruins all laws of nature

Yes and rats are completely useless against the Akuma, Karmic Demons, and spill of energy. The council invented the dimentional cats and it was not enough

Imagine. Oooooh. Imagine how useless the entire hive will be

Dude, the war started with Kiomaru and Squeeler declaring war on each other. And unlike Squeeler, he was honest on his words at the court

He would fight for his clan but even he is aware of the importance of the council

>maybe if I keep posting smug lolis, people will think I actually have a good point
Just kill the karma demon (assuming it even was a karma demon), or let it kill a queerat and then die -- problem solved. Damn, what an insurmountable roadblock!

>yes and rats are completely useless against the Akuma
No they're not. The rats can kill people any time they like. And more than this, the weapon wasn't even a fiend (if you'll recall), it was just a cantus user that thought it was a queerat, hence the fucking death reflex when it killed a queerat.

Did you even watch the show?

Yes, I watched as how it takes only 1 pk user to turn all the hive into a fiery brimstone.
1 normal pk user

A karmic demon is one with excellent intelligence
An Akuma is one with extreme agressiveness

Great job raising them all, oh mighty liberator

How does any of this disprove what I said?

>war started with Kiomaru and Squealer declaring war on each other
Yeah I know, he didn't want to join Squealer 's democracy because "REEE GOTTA SAVE MUH QUEEN" and betrayed his race to save his own clan. That's the only reason why he teamed up with the PKers, he would nuke them given the chance and in fact he actively tried to but failed.

>A karmic demon is one with excellent intelligence
There was no sign the weapon was a karma demon. More than this, it died after it killed a single queerat. You're hyping up the threat of this one possible roadblock because you've had to concede all your other points. Quit being such a fucking goober and admit the only thing Squealer did wrong was fail.

The death feedback does not react to Akumas and Karmic Demons, you dumb idiot!

>implying ALL of them would become karmic demons, and fiends
>implying Squealer wasn't a good boy and wouldn't raise the kids as one of his own and they would grow up to be nice, loving children
then he kills them in their sleep :^)

The death feedback killed your "fiend"/"karma demon" in the series. If you do away with your weapon once the cantus users are wiped out, you don't have to worry at all about your entirely speculative disaster. The point remains that Squealer had a perfectly admirable goal of liberating queerats from cantus users.

I can't remember what the two were disputing about but nope. Their dispute does not concern betraying his queen and race
The council reacted after it became obvious how Squeeler won - by having a living library

watch the show again brainlet

And he didn't :^)

It was not a Fiend, you idiot.
It was a normal child whos death feedback was programmed in favor of the rats. Rats who raised him up be agressive and turn into an Akuma any time soon

>And he didn't :^)
prove it

>are less evil than a society based on constant genocide and child-murder
This evil society was created by humans who tried to genocide cantus users though.

>Because any revolution is going to result in violence and death.
Isn't plain old war the same? Humans lost, and then lost again as queerats. It's a direct consequence of their violent acts just like the uprising was a consequence of the inhumane treatment they received by cantus users.
Seems like you have a revolutionary bias, even though both sides committed war crimes.

>because it liberates the vast bulk of the human population in Shinsekai Yori's world
My problem with this is that you can't simply expect cantus users to just die without trying to fight back. They did fight, and for some reason are demonized for winning.
Turns out someone had to win. Maybe regular humans should have thought a little bit more seriously about their powerlevel before rattling their sabers and declaring war on a more powerful enemy.

>Ultimately, it's worth it
Sure, it is worth it for queerats. Just like it was worth it for cantus users. The only difference is that cantus users were strong enough to carry out their crimes until the end.
Should have won the war.

>Rats who raised him up be agressive and turn into an Akuma any time soon
OK -- point stands: kill it right after exterminating the cantus users. Problem solved, you've just achieved world democracy.

Again, your speculative disaster doesn't discount that Squealer literally did nothing wrong and was clearly the protagonist of Shinsekai Yori.

The rats call the kid their "Messiah"

Squealer's biggest mistake was taking the Messiah with him when they were chasing down Saki into Tokyo. Given how essential she was it seems like a huge mistake to take her into such a dangerous area even the cantus users avoided. If he'd just kept the Messiah on wiping out as many cantus users as possible and sent disposable queerats after Saki he would've won.

Exactly and he didn't.
He was not aiming to eliminate pk users. He was aiming for world domination using all the powers and weapons he could have.

And he has not a single idea of the history of pk users and why the council are so paranoid about it

He is a fool playing god

Ok I am going out now. Give me 3 hours to reply
If the thread is still alive

>This evil society was created by humans who tried to genocide cantus users though.
>a bunch more shit about regular humans
I'm not defending the humans of 1000 (or whatever) years ago -- I'm defending Queerats in the political climate that exists at the point in time Shinsekai Yori is set. In this political climate, where Queerats are unambiguously subject to unaccountable power, routinely massacred, exploited for slave labour, etc., the Queerats are entirely justified in their attempts to escape from this system.

And again, if Squealer's plan worked, the world would be better off, and industrial democracy would spread to the remaining human population.

>He was not aiming to eliminate pk users. He was aiming for world domination using all the powers
He was literally aiming to eliminate all pk users, that's why he had planned to expand to other parts of the world.

>he has not a single idea of the history of pk users and why the council are so paranoid about it
hidden library

Humans are allowed to use the living library
>ok

Sqeauler uses it
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>Exactly and he didn't.
Are you saying he didn't kill his weapon after exterminating cantus users? I mean, he didn't kill his weapon because he didn't exterminate the cantus users.

>He is a fool playing god
You can say this all you like, but his motivations are clear -- he's not some delusional dictator with a god complex (hence the fucking representative democracy he helped create you moron), he's just trying to get out from under the boot of a society with immense, unaccountable power.

I think the difference is Mitty had a risk of suffering in pain forever but he was put into a state of perpetual pain by default and left in a museum jar.

Was Squealer a commie?

Maria's child wasn't a karma demon you mongoloid, it's even a PLOT POINT in the novel.

There are some obvious parallels with the very early USSR, back when worker-led factory committees had genuine power and potential, given the rapid industrialization and the overthrow of monarchy toward more representative democracy (before these things, barring industry, were quashed by the Leninist intelligensia).

In any case, I think he's just into the whole classical liberal idea that those who have to live by a set of rules ought to have some say in what those rules are (which isn't necessarily communist, but is a central part of libertarian socialism).

>How come killing is acceptable in this case, but defending yourself from genocidal normal humans isn't?
No one is saying Cantus don't have a right to defend themselves, we are saying Squarer had NO CHOICE.

I don't think some of you understand how poor queerats were treated.

>I'm not defending the humans of 1000 (or whatever) years ago
It's not about defending or picking sides, everyone is literally trying to survive. How can you argue against any of them? Cantus users are entitled to murder just like Squealer is, that's plain old war.

>the Queerats are entirely justified in their attempts to escape from this system.
Never said they weren't. I'm not saying they should just give up and die either, everyone is entitled to fight for their own survival. They did lose twice though.

>the world would be better off
That's entirely subjective, if you were born as a cantus user you'd certainly beg to differ.

>kill the opposition -> achieve democracy
Works both ways.

> if you were born as a cantus user you'd certainly beg to differ.
I mean, yeah, but as someone who isn't a part of either society, with no real vested interest in either, I've come to the conclusion that the smaller, more despotic society isn't particularly good for the world.
>How can you argue against any of them?
Because one society is an industrial democracy and the other is a fucked up, child-killing, genocidal society with psychic powers that are ruining the world.

every thread about him i see

WATASHI WA WUZ NINGENS N SHEEIT

>with no real vested interest in either
Come on, you said industry and democracy multiple times. You're obviously being biased towards the more human-like(except appearance) society.
>I've come to the conclusion that the smaller, more despotic society isn't particularly good for the world.
Isn't "world" also entirely subjective?
Also, why can't they reform their society to fit your criteria? It's not like the average person was completely heartless, they were just ignorant because of their despotic government.

>the other is a fucked up, child-killing, genocidal society
Didn't the end justify the means though? Otherwise revolutions themselves would be bad. They're killing to maintain their society, whilst a revolution kills to create a new one.

>with psychic powers that are ruining the world
I could rev up the green party/ commie / environmentalist NGO discourse as well, even though I'm not particularly invested in them.

By the way, that's involuntary compared to industries shitting up the atmosphere. Not a really fair comparison.