Is free public education a civil right?

Is free public education a civil right?

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USER
SHOULD
PAY

NO
EXCEPTIONS

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No. No one has the right to force another to work for them.

How can you have something free and also a civil right?

Yes. However, i still plan on putting my kids in private school or homeschooling. Let the niggers have their free (((education.)))

depends whether you are a sensible man that wants a somewhat decent but flawed society or a child that thinks living in an absolute dystopia would be cool

Lower education, maybe. Higher education no, free higher education is detrimental to a functional society. It leads to lower unskilled labor counts in the native population, in addition to the loss of skilled trade workers (such as welders, and other trade school craftsman). In a functional society with a strong middle class there must be tiers of labor, unskilled, skilled but uneducated (blue collar work generally), and skilled educated work (white collar work and blue collar). Without this tiered element society begins to collapse due to rampant inflation of an educated or uneducated population that had to either rely on immigration or imports to maintain society, which isn't sustainable in a real world economy.

>civil right
no. not in my country

your mom's vagina is a civil right

no u

No.
"Free" services are paid for by taxpayers.
You certainly have the right to get educated, but that's not the implemented system.
You are obliged by law to get educated. Different.

We have a right to keep/bear arms, but that doesn’t mean I get provided a gun for free. Just because something is a right doesn’t necessarily mean that you are entitled to it at no cost.

Fuck no. Do you know what a civil right is? Civil right is something that forbids the police from just barging into your house unannounced to drag you out jackboot style.

It might be a nice thing. A NICE THING. Not a RIGHT.

Let's not get started on the whole "UN Human Rights" document that is BASICALLY Marxist propoganda, where it is your RIGHT, I quote RIGHT, to have "1 month holiday and holidays off".

No. I’d even argue public education is a detriment.

Nothing is free.

how is it a detriment?

See

But primary education is fine isn't it?

Nobody on earth has the right to another persons work. That includes teachers and doctors. Nobody owes you anything. You aren’t special. The only rights any person can have are the rights to not have his life taken, property taken, or freedom taken. You don’t have the freedom to force a teacher to educate you, you’re life isn’t being threatened, and teachers aren’t your property.
TAXATION IS THEFT

Gun ownership is an example of “negative” rights, your freedom from government interference. Negative rights restricting government power were the onky kind of civil rights in eighteenth century thought. The advent of Marxism brought the idea of “positive” rights by which the government gained power to take money or property from some people and redistribute it to others, under the guise of those others gaining some “right” (when in fact the government was the beneficiary). The “right” to education just means the right of the government to tax, to employ people dependent on it and thus loyal to it, to exercise influence over the formative years of the children, and to exert its power in a sphere once controlled by the family.

Who pays for the teachers' salaries? Who pays for the books? Who pays for their lunches? Who pays for building and classroom upgrades? Who pays for computers?

Making positive rights civil rights almost always ends in a sort of "monkey's paw" scenario where you don't get what you expect. This is because rights must always be enforced except when removed by due process of law. For example, this case could result in forced labor of teachers to ensure that the general populace is being educated. Also, the quality of education isn't specified. What may pass as "free public education" is a free education computer program that "educates" you about general topics, which might not even be adequate for general education development. All this doesn't even take into consideration the inevitable abuse of the cost of the system, which will no doubt allow educational material providers to gouge the shit out of products necessary to enforce this right.

It's a giant mess. Absolutely not worth it. You can champion cheap or free education for all, you can come up with ways to make it more tenable, but it must never be made a right.

Access to the information that public schools teach your kids should be a right. It's not a right to have another person teach your child. It's a privilege.

If you can call this third world tier schooling and education.
>education isn't a right Its a privileged.

You are free to educate yourself, mass indoctrination centers masquerading as schools should be shut down.

Basic education, like counting, reading, and up to current high school provisions should be. College should never be free unless you can prove you deserve it by being incredibly fucking smart.

no, its a obligation.

No. Dumb kids never learn, and smart kids can teach themselves. There's literally no benefit. Public school is a waste of a childhood.

This is a sad opinion. I'm sorry I read it.

Human capital is essential to growing the economy.

As the average highest level of education increases, so too will average income.

>Public school is absolute trash ATM, yet has been the foundation for many intelligent and successful Americans of yesteryear. Go far enough back and our public schooling was #1 in the world

>TL;DR: not a civil right. but essential to the betterment of society. it denies no one a basic opportunity to become educated PROVIDED ITS GOOD EDUCATION

Heck no

The real question is whether or not segregation is a civil right.

>smart kids can teach themselves. There's literally no benefit. Public school is a waste of a childhood.
>posted by a mutt
pottery.

What's wrong with it? It doesn't even get into the social aspects of public school, which turns everyone into a negro to at least some degree. The whole thing caters to the lowest common denominator, which is the inescapable outcome of any public service.

Yeah, we have shit education because it's full of niggers. Thanks for agreeing with me.

Elementary schools teach kids how to read, do basic math, teach them about basic science and US history. You have to have some standards as an advanced country.

public indoctrination centers funded by money stolen from landowners
not a right, its a scam designed to steal your kids and turn them into puppets

Ohhh I see, we're fishing for (you)'s cuz it's edgy to be anti-public school, no?

Right then. Fuck NO! Poor people should stay dumb and poor, it's the only way to achieve an oligarchy.

And quite frankly, I love the flat earthers! Almost as pleasant as the sovereign citizens.

Too true, Sup Forums

be an autodidact op

Then how come idiots can't read, do math, or remember any science or history? It's almost like education is only effective if you're interested in learning in the first place.

What does raising a fist have to do with education?

You already have twelve years of free public education.

instagram.

Why would you need to push for a right any slightly big/totalitarian government WANTS to give you for free?

It's in the interest of any state to give their people free """education""". Germany pretty much fought tooth and nail for decades in a horrendous war just so one christian sect can control what was taught in schools.

>free

>free government brainwashing is a right
gee I wonder who sponsors them

What education? If you are learning something useful, like a trade or a hard science, I'm all for it. Want me to pay for your womans studies course? Suck my dick.

>how
Primary school doesn’t teach the double digit IQ kids tangible skills they need to be successful. It attempts to be university prep, not realizing everyone should not go to college.

Those people were successful despite public education, not because of it.

primary here is elementary

Every Western society seems to agree

FREEEEEEEEE

But does that mean it's a good thing? Western society also agreed that a crow on a stick could cure the plague.

No lol

Good post

I should have used primary and secondary.

>the real question is whether freedom of association is a civil right.

>Is it a good thing
That is different from being a '"right." Since people around the would have different values, I would say something is a right if the vast majority of the population support it. Anyways, public education up to high school is a necessity in modern society, especially since we are now a service economy.

How is that a refutation? If anything, US public education shits all over the idea that government can provide quality services of any kind.

Up to high school, sure. But I also wish that what's provided is actually education, instead of liberal indoctrination. That guarantee is harder to ensure.

You’re an idiot with no factual basis for your views whatsoever.

Bryan Caplan makes the case against education described as personally advantageous but socially bad. For instance, if one person stands in a crowded theatre he will be able to see better but if everyone stands in a crowded theatre it does not follow that everyone will see better. In the same vein, if somebody goes to elementary, middle, high school and then college so that they can stand out for employers it is good for him but it does not follow that if everyone does this that everyone benefits it only makes distinguishing yourself from others that much more costly and prolongs education for those who want to stand out.

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Wrong. What happens is that the material becomes harder to learn, so kids tends to learn easily up to a point.

not for you mongrellus

Civil rights are social construct

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Depend if education or (((education)))

"""Free""" public eductation is a cancerous disaster. (And it certainly ISNT free)

t. Victim of the California public education system from K-10th grade. My father put me in a Christian private school for 11th-12th. I was basically at a 5th grade level compared to them, but I caught up quickly because the teachers and even the students took me under their wings and nurtured me.

Imagine how much you hate the DMV, or your taxes, or the court, or the media, or any other government institution. Is that who you want teaching our children?

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No. Education is a service. Services rendered should be paid for...and no...getting the government to steal other peoples money at gunpoint to pay on your behalf doesn't count.

Your whole premise assumes that trade workers and unskilled labor won't be replaced by automation.

>free public education is a civil right
>nigger
>yellow
>white
Why even bother making it a civil right when there's entire demographics that will squander the opportunity?

No but on the other hand if we ever achieved a white ethnostate I'd still advocate for public primary and secondary education for political purposes. One function of any education system whether admitted or not is political indoctrination. Children need to be taught from day one that the monocultural ethnostate is good, multiracialism is bad, and Marxism is a blight upon humanity.

>freedom of association
It should be, but they're trying pretty damn hard to make sure that doesn't happen. Affirmative action comes to mind.

>Is free public education a civil right?

My state's constitution places an obligation on the state government to provide free education until the age of 18. So it is a right until a constitutional amendment changes it.

no.
but, I think education is important
It should be free for minors
and its mismanaged.

Civil rights are not real, a civil "right" is a privilege that you may or MAY NOT be afforded, depending on the social contract the people are willing to enter in to. You do not have the RIGHT to anyone elses tax money. Your rights merely extend as far as your can enforce them or the state enforces for you, the states scope in terms of rights is limited to your security, it exists to uphold its own sovereignty. If you want education you must acquire it yourself, it is unethical to implore the state to step on the one right the state exists to guarantee so that you can get free education. If you want to start a mutual fund that people can voluntarily join and pay into to pay for the childrens education you are welcome to, but it is deeply immoral to force anyone to pay for you.

You have the RIGHT to be educated, as long as you can pay for it yourself. You do not have the entitlement to have someone else pay for you.

it never has before
you need someone to fix the robots
you need someone to fix the robots who fix the robots
where does it end?

It's a horrible failed attempt at evening out the playing field that we would be better off without

If a right is whatever the government gives us (or anything we democratically decide we want), then this is a tautology.
>Free public education is guaranteed by the law.
>Free public education is something we've decided we want.
Kinda meaningless. If rights are subjective, then justice is reduced to a power struggle. Whoever wins is allowed to decide what rights are.

If a right is a principal of optimal behavior that always naturally arises from cooperative games, i.e. natural rights, then free public education is not at all a right. Natural rights exist between individuals, not between an individual and the universe. You wouldn't say "not being short is a civil right" because there's actually nobody to blame.

The right to public education can only be justified subjectively. It's a whim. The right not to pay for someone else's education is 100% objective.

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Nope same with healthcare

Rights are things given to you by God. They don't cost money. Everything else is an entitlement or privilege.