Jesus

Jesus didn't actually exist. Even the Apostle Paul didn't believe in him.

>pic related

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yea he exist. there were prophets on every street corner back in those days.

> actually being retarded
Tip elsewhere.

>there were prophets on every street corner back in those days.
Paul didn't write that Jesus preached on a street corner. Paul wrote that Jesus only appeared in dreams.

He was a persecuter of early Christians. then one day Jesus come to him in a dream and tell him to STOP IT! after that he was good boy

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>then one day Jesus come to him in a dream and tell him to STOP IT! after that he was good boy
That's not what Paul wrote.

Paul wrote that his ONLY knowledge of Jesus came from dreams.

he didn't know Jesus personally. He born after he die

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Paul was a Pharisee who accepted Jesus after receiving a vision from Him on the road to Damascus. Furthermore there is this:

1 Corinthians 15:14
14 And if Christ has not been raised, what we preach doesn’t mean anything. Your faith doesn’t mean anything either.

Paul certainly believed He existed.

Also the majority of Biblical scholars and historians agree that a man named Jesus lived, taught, and was crucified by the Roman's.

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>Paul was a Pharisee who accepted Jesus after receiving a vision from Him on the road to Damascus.
Paul never wrote about receiving a vision on the road to Damascus. That's a much later tradition.

>Furthermore there is this:
Early Christians believed the resurrection had taken place before the beginning of time.

>Also the majority of Biblical scholars and historians agree that a man named Jesus lived, taught, and was crucified by the Roman's.
The majority of Biblical scholars are either evangelical Christians or funded by evangelical Christians. You don't know what they really think and neither does anyone else.

Do you have any evidence that early Christians believed that Jesus was ressurected before time began?

Also it seems you are unfamiliar with the Pauline Epistles.

I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.

—Galatians 1:11-16, NIV
As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.

"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
—Acts 9:3–9, NIV

Acts 22:6-21 is directly from Paul.

Always do opposite as the jews says, even if they are sky jews or crucified jews

youtu.be/Tfw2suyUUNw

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>Do you have any evidence that early Christians believed that Jesus was ressurected before time began?
Nope, I've lost the citation and can't find it via google. I'm waiting for one of you dolts to find it for me.

>—Acts 9:3–9, NIV
Acts contradicts Paul's own writings, so we can't use it as evidence of the events that happened in Paul's actual life. More likely than not, Luke knew nothing about Paul.

>Acts 22:6-21 is directly from Paul.
What are you talking about? Paul's vision on the road to Damascus appears nowhere in his own writings.

Hate to disappoint a meatheaded atheist ( who in Britain isn't?) but back from the dead user here. He absolutely exists, your government has you so brainwashed you'll believe anything. Watch out for those Russian poisoners your paranoid fucking idiot.

There is universal consensus among historians that Jesus lived, that he was baptized and that he was crucified.
The discovery of the Pilate stone also confirmed that Pontius Pilate was real.

>Watch out for those Russian poisoners your paranoid fucking idiot.
I don't think I'm in any danger. I'm surrounded by gentlemen of south Asian extraction, not Russian oligarchs

>There is universal consensus among historians that Jesus lived, that he was baptized and that he was crucified.
Why do you idiots continuously copy-paste this one line from Wikipedia?

What the fuck are you talking about? This is common knowledge.

Ok then keep your sister in the closet. You don't believe in rape gangs do you? You don't believe ol Jimmy was a peodphile do you?

>What the fuck are you talking about? This is common knowledge.
The Apostle Paul doesn't agree with you. Who are you to contradict the Apostle Paul, who was alive at the same time Jesus would have been alive?

>You don't believe in rape gangs do you? You don't believe ol Jimmy was a peodphile do you?
I wasn't aware that the Rotherham rape gangs used Polonium 210 on their victims, but I'm willing to be corrected if you can provide a source.

Jesus flew off into space never to be seen again,
Why did he not fix everything when he was here and not at some unknown later date?

If you phone a plumber, he comes,has a look at the job and never returns to finish the job how do you feel?

>The Apostle Paul doesn't agree with you.
Except he believed in Christ, you retard.

Yep. I recommend the audiobook version of that book.

Christfags are gonna lose their shit bc “Muh Jebus,” but they’re intellectually children — ultimately owned by the Jews.

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>Except he believed in Christ, you retard.
Paul wrote that everything he knew about Jesus came from dreams.

You sound pretty euphoric. Enjoy blindly following your state prescribed religion of atheism. You surely will be able to rationalize away God, and finally prove the origins of reality using science, the infallible doctrines of the state.

Oh look, it’s that atheist fag from the last post.

>Paul never talked to the apostles when he met with them multiple times

Oh hi LeftyPol

>Enjoy blindly following your state prescribed religion of atheism.
Check my flag, Wilbur. Our state-prescribed religion is Sunni Islam.

Jew scholar Josephus literally confirms Jesus was real.

>>Paul never talked to the apostles when he met with them multiple times
I don't know what you're trying to say.

Paul never wrote anything about the apostles meeting Jesus, or meeting anyone who knew Jesus, or knowing anything about Jesus' life or teachings.

>Jew scholar Josephus literally confirms Jesus was real.
Manuscripts of Josephus' "Antiquties of the Jews" before the 4th century don't mention Jesus, unfortunately (although they do mention John the Baptist)

No, he didn't. He converted after a vision. Before that, he persecuted Christians, meaning that Christanity had already spread and that he knew about Jesus.

Paul's primary role in Christian theology was interpreting the meaning behind Christ's actions.

Nope, right wing atheist. Ooooh, is your mind blown, chrisfag?

>Paul never wrote about receiving a vision on the road to Damascus. That's a much later tradition.
You w0t m8?

Luke wrote the book of Acts based on Paul's testimony and their travels. Luke was with him in the end while he was awaiting execution in a Roman prison. That's not a "much later tradition"

>No, he didn't. He converted after a vision.
Paul never wrote that he converted because of a vision.

>and that he knew about Jesus.
Paul never wrote that he knew Jesus or knew about Jesus.

Are you actually retarded?

>Luke wrote the book of Acts based on Paul's testimony and their travels
Acts contradicts Paul's own letters so it can't possibly be based on Paul's testimony.

>Luke was with him in the end while he was awaiting execution in a Roman prison.
There is no evidence that Paul died in a Roman prison.

Paul wasn't one of the 12 apostles dingus. He learned about Jesus AFTER he died.

>Are you actually retarded?
Of course you can't disprove any of my arguments, so you feel obliged to insult me instead.

Just show me one time that Paul writes about Jesus' life or teachings, and I will STFU.

Just one citation, that's all I need.

Or the rationality based non-religion of Agnosticism, the true white tradition, along with paganism. Not Kikestianity

>Jew scholar

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Tell me something christians: How are you going to cope with an eternity of sexual abstinence?

>Paul wasn't one of the 12 apostles dingus. He learned about Jesus AFTER he died.
What are you talking about? The gospels talk about 12 disciples, not 12 apostles.

I thought you Irish guys were made to study the bible 50 hours a week when you were in school

>primary sources aren't evidence
Lol

What source? Where in the source?

Leaf praising Jew scholars, holy shit

Sucks

>>primary sources aren't evidence
You haven't posted any primary sources yet, user

>Protip: Galatians is a primary source, more or less
>Protip: 1 Corinthians is a primary source
>Protip: Acts is not a primary source

You don't have any arguments. You're literally pulling shit out of your ass.

Let's use your line of arguing, shall we?
Show me one time that Paul claimed that Jesus didn't exist.

>Show me one time that Paul claimed that Jesus didn't exist.
Galatians 1:12.

Best non-biblical primary source.

Whoops, my mistake, he was under house arrest not actual prison

>Best non-biblical primary source.
Josephus would have been a great primary source if he had actually mentioned Jesus at all

if that's the case then Islam nothing but a complete lie as your prophet keep saying saying Jesus was the prophet before him and.
If jesus never exist that means Old testament is still the current covenant and Islam is complete lie

>Galatians 1:12.
>I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
Try again.
He doesn't make any claims that Jesus didn't exist. In fact, he repeatedly talks about the meaning behind Jesus Christ's crucifixion, which implicitly shows that he believed that it happened.

If we go by your pedantic reasoning, he actually proves that Jesus Christ was the actual son of God. Given that Jesus Christ is considered a real person by historians, and that, according to you, Paul magically divined historically accurate information about Christ through dreams (such as the crucifixion), that would mean Jesus Christ is actually the son of God.

>If jesus never exist that means Old testament is still the current covenant and Islam is complete lie
This is not news to me, my emu-fearing friend

>he believes in magic

Laughingthots.jpg

Prophets get their visions from Dreams.
they been doing this since Old testament.

Now you are claiming Jesus does not exist because Paul got a vision similar to the prophets of old?

If Jesus didn't exist,then how come Jesus fullfilled the prophecies of Old testament?

And how come the Jews recieved the plagues of Deut 28 after the cruxifition of Jesus the era they broke the covenant?

>He doesn't make any claims that Jesus didn't exist
If Paul knew nothing about Jesus except what he saw in dreams, then he logically cannot have believed that a flesh and blood Jesus existed.

Otherwise, Paul would have written "I never met Jesus when he was alive, but he appears to me in dreams" or something like that

>In fact, he repeatedly talks about the meaning behind Jesus Christ's crucifixion
Paul cannot be talking about a crucifixion on Earth because otherwise he would not have written "everything I know about Jesus comes from dreams"

>which implicitly shows that he believed that it happened.
Illogical

>If we go by your pedantic reasoning, he actually proves that Jesus Christ was the actual son of God.
Or it proves that Paul was prone to hallucinations like millions of other mentally-ill people

>according to you, Paul magically divined historically accurate information about Christ through dreams
What are you talking about? Paul dream's didn't contain any information about Jesus' life or teachings. He never mentions those things.

Paul realized that persecuting Christians only strengthened their numbers, so he adapted, he subverted the original anti- Roman Jewish Christian cult.

So you're actually so autistic that you're interpreting a single line where he says that he received his gospel from a dream, that he knew absolutely nothing about Jesus Christ's life, despite spending time actually persecuting Christians before he converted?

I ask again, are you actually retarded?

>Now you are claiming Jesus does not exist because Paul got a vision similar to the prophets of old?
No, I am claiming that Paul got ALL of his information about Jesus from dreams, not just some information

I'm making that claim because Paul literally wrote that all his information on Jesus comes from dreams

>If Jesus didn't exist,then how come Jesus fullfilled the prophecies of Old testament?
It's not very impressive to write prophecies about events that have already happened

youtube.com/watch?v=FbkQjIeJFec

He already fixed everything , its us screwing up again and again until the second comming then the testing is done

>socking revelation that everybody knows

>you're interpreting a single line where he says that he received his gospel from a dream, that he knew absolutely nothing about Jesus Christ's life
Paul's surviving letters contain about 20,000 words (if I remember correctly) and he never contradicts this one sentence, nor does he ever mention Jesus' life or teachings

>despite spending time actually persecuting Christians before he converted
What are you talking about? No-one thnnks that Paul was the first Christian.

You are far beyond your depth here.

>If you phone a plumber, he comes,has a look at the job and never returns to finish the job how do you feel?

The plumber came then the customer destroyed all the work the plumber did , the plumber will take his sweet time now to fix your shit again

Josephus betrayed his own people and choose to save his own ass, he was appointed to a prestigious position and was allowed to live in the Roman emperor's palace (Can't remember the emperor's name). You consider him a reliable source.

>You are far beyond your depth here.
"random insult because thinking of an answer is too much mental effort"

>Even the Apostle Paul didn't believe in him
big deal. I don't even believe in the apostle Paul. I think he was made up out of whole cloth by the heresiarch Marcion.

>Even the Apostle Paul didn't believe in him.
Where in the world did you get that idea from?

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>I think he was made up out of whole cloth by the heresiarch Marcion.
Well hello there, Robert M Price!

sure ahmad

At least the state is real, Pablo.

>Where in the world did you get that idea from?
From reading the bible critically instead of copy-pasting from (((Wikipedia)))

>If Jesus didn't exist,then how come Jesus fullfilled the prophecies of Old testament?
this is so retarded that it must be bait. but in the minor possibility that it isn't: you mean like entering Jerusalem riding on two asses because the fanfiction writer took a semitic turn of phrase, "ass and issue of ass" literally? or that he will be of the house of David, while he had no physical father? or the contrived shit about him being both from Nazareth and Bethlehem? or ...
I think you can see where I am going with this.

I shall protect my anonymity.

>entering Jerusalem riding on two asses
Yeah, riding on one ass actually, Depending on which gospel author you believe.

>Protip: don't believe any of them

Could you cite some passages proving your point for us?

So, your claim is that Paul was a Christian who lived in a bubble and never heard about anything related to Jesus Christ, nor did he ever talk to or discuss Jesus Christ with anyone else.
Despite this, he knew about the crucifixion, the resurrection, the twelve apostles, and so on. In other words, he independently confirms things that others have written in the Bible, which according to your autistic reasoning would mean that he proves the existence of Christ as his knowledge directly overlaps with the other Gospels, despite the fact that he lived in a bubble and never talked about or heard about Jesus Christ from anyone.

Also, if he didn't believe Jesus Christ was a real person, how could he believe in the resurrection, which he frequently talks about?

You're quite a minority aren't you?

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Why does a barbarian jewish cult matter?
Worship Zeus the true God.

Stop worshiping a false Jewish cult.

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>I shall protect my anonymity.
"Paul was actually Marcion" is one of the arguments in pic related

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>Could you cite some passages proving your point for us?
I have cited Galatians 1:12 at least 9000 times in this thread already.

Julius Caesar didn’t exist. Charlemagne didn’t exist. Alexander the Great didn’t exist. Cyrus the Great didn’t exist.

You can literally use the same proof that atheists use to say Jesus didn’t exist

>who is Josephus

>So, your claim is that Paul was a Christian who lived in a bubble and never heard about anything related to Jesus Christ
That's not what I claim. That's what the Apostle Paul claims in his own letters.

>Despite this, he knew about the crucifixion, the resurrection,
The resurrection is not a historical event. We can't ask whether Darth Vader's light sabre battle with Luke Skywalker was a historical event or not, because light sabres haven't been invented yet so it cannot be historical.

> the twelve apostles
What are you talking about? There were twelve disciples, not twelve apostles. Do you not know the difference between an apostle and a disciple?

>In other words, he independently confirms things that others have written in the Bible
Independently confirm? You don't know whether the gospel authors had read Paul or not, and neither does anyone else

>Also, if he didn't believe Jesus Christ was a real person, how could he believe in the resurrection, which he frequently talks about?
Paul didn't write anything about a crucifixion or ressurection taking place on Earth. He only mentions that Jesus appeared to people (on Earth) some time after a crucifixion.

>Julius Caesar didn’t exist. Charlemagne didn’t exist. Alexander the Great didn’t exist. Cyrus the Great didn’t exist.
>You can literally use the same proof that atheists use to say Jesus didn’t exist
We have primary source texts, archaeological and numismatic evidence for Julius Caesar, but none of those things for Jesus

Therefore your argument is nonsense

His own people are the single worst group of humans to ever exist, so he made a good choice.

Even if you read the bible metaphorically and self-insert one's own people for the Hebrews, you're still subconsciously identifying yourself with the Jews and their history.

Christians curse their pagan ancestors and consider themselves to be spiritual (and sometimes literal for the aggressively retarded ones) descendants of the Israelites, so it's the worst kind of LARPing.

if there's anything wrong in the text, then all of the text falls under suspicion, the fundamentalists are right about this, since this is not merely an opinion of theirs but a logical consequence of how christian epistemology works. so if one gospel makes false claims, the credibility of the entire text collapses because there's now a boundary between claims of the text that are true and claims that are false, and there's no way to tell where the boundary lies, no way to corroborate the true parts or falsify the false ones; the latter is especially ironic since there's a long-standing christian tradition of wilfully, explicitly and proudly ignoring any evidence contrary to biblical claims, under the aegis of 'keeping the faith'.

>>who is Josephus
Josephus didn't write anything about Jesus. Obviously you already know that and are just trolling.

I took it from some german book, can't recall the title now, but it surely wasn't the book in your pic. now I'll have to read this one too.

>so if one gospel makes false claims, the credibility of the entire text collapses
I think it's even worse than that, given that Matthew, Luke and John are obviously redactions of Mark, not independent works

>now I'll have to read this one too.
You won't regret it, I found it fascinating and I'm not even interested in Pauline stuff.