Is a conventional war between Russia and the US possible without it escalating to a full on nuclear conflict?
Is a conventional war between Russia and the US possible without it escalating to a full on nuclear conflict?
Leo Jones
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Hudson Young
no
David Bell
A hot war, yes. But nowadays anything can happen. Read Tom Clancy books
Dylan Diaz
No. First side that begins to lose uses their nuclear weapons in a tactical manner, escalating to strategic use and then all out exchange.
Matthew Sanders
ya god said so
Easton Jenkins
Nolan Rodriguez
If it's a limited conflict, yes. If the conflict poses an existential threat to the losing side, then no.
Kevin Sullivan
timelines change tho so don't put all your eggs in one basket hehe
please don't post that or I'll send your bitch ass to hell
David Peterson
A short battle over limited objectives might be possible but nothing beyond that, especially if it involves a threat to the sovereign territory of either nation.
Hudson Carter
Easton King
faggot
Austin Powell
Fucking bitch
Luis Garcia
>Implying clancy knows jack shit about war
Eli Ortiz
Nope. Endless proxy wars in third world shit holes.
Hudson Foster
>Read Tom Clancy books
yeah and to learn about space exploration just watch star trek
Isaiah Barnes
Hopefully it does reach full nuclear conflict so both your shithole countries are destroyed.
Liam Nguyen
Only way is through proxies, like the middle eastern conflicts. Everyone knows we've all got mutually assured destruction plans, to start anything would just be to flex for shits and giggles.
Jacob Hernandez
You lose everything and nobody is gonna give a single fuck.
Hunter Cooper
The USA could never defeat Russia conventionally and using the the nuclear option would be suicidal.
Christopher Roberts
>Is a conventional war between Russia and the US possible without it escalating to a full on nuclear conflict?
Sure. Ultimately, nobody wants to press the launch button so there's always the potential of limited nuclear strikes or none at all.
>The USA could never defeat Russia conventionally
Russia would get rolled within a week if nukes were off the table for sure.
Carter Collins
yes, thats literally part of the reason we have nukes, if both sides have nukes then, as long as the war doesnt get to state destroying tier, then neither side will use nukes
Luke Clark
>The USA could never defeat Russia conventionally
Yeah, nah, in a total war I'd give them 3 months tops before they're eating each other to survive.
Justin Mitchell
This.
If pakis and poos didn't blew themselves up to this day i am sure Russia and USA can be at least this competent.
Mason Barnes
No. They can spam mercs and irregulars at each other though.
Carter Kelly
>Tom Clancy books
John Murphy
Literally everyone who tried conventional warfare during invasion of Russia actually ended up like you just described - eating themselves to survive.
Parker Sanchez
Neither country is that dumb
Landon Brown
there won't be any lend lease during a war with the US, ivan
Chase Carter
Russia hasn't been this territorially contracted since the Time of Troubles, the last time they were successfully invaded (by Poland and Sweden).
Russia can't beat thalassocracies, only rival land powers. See: the Great Game, Cold War.
Eli James
They've been doing that in Syria and Russia has nearly won. Neither side will back down in Syria, it is equally important for both countries. The tension can only hold itself together for so long...
Jordan Anderson
And how does that work out now that we don't move supplies by horse, cart and the odd truck? NATO could wipe out your Navy and Airforce then just bomb your food production back to the stone age.
Brandon Jones
Agree in theory, but the major part of the conflict had better be wrapped up in a week because a real war where US forces take significant losses is not politically viable.
We'd probably get a ship sunk because somebody forgot to turn on the missile defense radar or some shit and then it's capitulation time.
Ethan Lee
>We'd probably get a ship sunk because somebody forgot to turn on the missile defense radar or some shit and then it's capitulation time.
That's exactly what the Japanese thought. It doesn't work, because it goes directly against the doctrine of deterrence.
Joshua Morgan
We would never invade just bomb for maximum civilian casualties, and even if it doesn't work, we would convince the world that we "won" 10 years after the fact because we control the media
Samuel Campbell
The U.S. military doesn't use dumb bombs anymore.
>we would convince the world that we "won" 10 years after the fact because we control the media
Didn't work in Vietnam.
Thomas Jones
>Vietnam still reeling from the rape of their women
>War memorials all over showing it as a great war rather than a military-supported genocide...and people believe it
Vietnam sure believes they lost.
Nolan Peterson
No.
The last possible moment is when one side has the choice between tactical nukes and loosing the war.
Maybe do not use works of fiction as evidence for real life events?
Justin Williams
By your logic the Soviet Union "lost" the Eastern Front.
Aaron Hall
>dumb bomb
Who the fuck said a civilian-targeted bomb had to be a dumb bomb? user, are you sniffing paint again?
Justin Gomez
No one is going to waste multi-million dollar laser-guided smart bombs on gopniks squatting on their stoops.
Angel Nelson
>thinking lost is the same as thinking you lost
Russians never admit defeat. They are too drunk for that. They lost in the sense of losing more, but they are insane and basically two steps above chimps with guns. You cannot stop a group of idiots that do not know what a white flag is.
Wyatt Howard
>Has to be either be a dumb bomb or the most expensive bomb possible
Man, it must be the thirties with all this black and white here.
Caleb Roberts
There is only one definition for "winning" in war, and that is being the last one remaining on a battlefield. It has been that way since the beginning of time.
Adam Clark
You're going to use the cheapest bomb available to kill civilians.
Carter Parker
Na it will go nuclear almost immediately. US likely has some kind of forth strike capability we don't know about, and will have the last word, however only the ashes of the US and Russia will remain. Australia+NZ and South America will prosper and colonize Antarctica.
Owen Morris
By that logic, Germany "won" WWII given their continued presence in foreign lands after their "surrender." user, this is not the middle ages. Political victory is a very real thing.
Jayden Wilson
Not necessarily. Time has shown mass deaths of citizens leads to swift victories. It leads to revolts and losing the will of the public to fight a war is a good way to bring a quick end to the war.
Xavier Collins
What'd it take for them to surrender?
Ethan Sanchez
Nope. They'd need a draft and they can fuck off if they think that's gonna work. Im not killing white people for my psychotic government.
Jordan Kelly
>implying true nuclear war between the US and Russia would not just lead to doomsday and the near extinction of humanity
I know you think Australia is tough and all with your Kangaroo boxing and the fact that you are a country founded by criminals, but you would not be spared when the ozone fries and the oceans become irradiated for a millennium.
Isaac Harris
Only if their ability to project force has also been eliminated. The Assyrians were totally genocided because they weren't able to totally defeat their enemies, after literally inventing genocide as a means of waging war.
Isaiah Powell
>Russian
>white
Wut?
Alexander Thomas
It already has happened to some extent if you payed attention.
Adam Richardson
Fair enough. My first response would be that the US of 2018 is not the US of 1942, but still the result would probably be escalation and if the state wants a war the people will not stop it.
>You're going to use the cheapest bomb available to kill civilians.
What about "sadistic smart bombing"? Hit the water supply, hit the hospitals, collapse the overpasses, etc. And deny, deny, deny that you're doing any of this intentionally of course. Takes longer for the corpses to pile up but it's probably far more efficient.
Jose Cook
>Russians never admit defeat
>they are insane
They Soviets not just achieve stalemate against the Nazis, as so many guerrilas have done to the USA. The Soviets went further. They took Berlin, just as the Imperial Russians took Paris when Napoleon's French and mixed units invaded Russia over a hundred years before Hitler.
You don't achieve those kinds of military objectives against great powers with just "insanity". The Russians know war.
Christopher White
>Assyrians
>BC civ
user, last I checked, they did not have tv, radio, etc. in the shit-streets of the Assyrian Kingdom. You underestimate the power of the public instantly knowing their grandmother was just eviscerated in hellfire missiles. It would take weeks to even get basic info back then and people were often not even literate, so it was by word of mouth, further delaying things. People are just more tunned in now and traditional war hardly even counts for much.
Parker Martin
We would lose, the Democrats and blue blood republicans would sell us out. "like a 3 dollar whore!"
Michael Jackson
>My first response would be that the US of 2018 is not the US of 1942
This is the knee-jerk response, but it isn't an actual argument. It applies even more today, when we have bald-faced imperialists running our foreign policy rather than people who still believe we're a shining city on a hill.
>What about "sadistic smart bombing"? Hit the water supply, hit the hospitals, collapse the overpasses, etc.
That isn't any different than normal warfare. The first thing we did when we invaded Iraq was to knock out critical infrastructure. It's the land equivalent to a blockade, and how the U.S. has been waging war for decades. Logistics > strategy > tactics.
Parker Gutierrez
>Just threw all their power over and over at the Germans and cut their supply lines until they starved them out
They know how a boa constrictor enacts "war."
Adrian Anderson
Radio, T.V., and the internet just heighten the effect of propaganda. You don't have any understanding of human nature if you believe that literal terrorism doesn't just lead to boiling hot rage in the people you're targeting.
Christian Lopez
/thread
Hudson Thomas
Say what you will, Napoleon and Hitler were both undefeated before invading Russia.
Nicholas Ortiz
Napoleon invaded Russia because they violated his Continental System blockade against the British. They were previously his allies. Hitler had failed to bring Britain to the piece talks, resulting in him having absolutely no oil source other than the Soviet Union. In both cases, their inability to fight a sea power is was lead to defeat. In other cases, such as the Crimean War or the Russo-Japanese war, whoever controlled the seas was able to beat Russia.
Owen Foster
All true - yet in the new world the great powers all have fancy new toys. Nuclear, chemical and biological weapons make war with Russia unthinkable despite Western naval and air superiority.
Alexander Hernandez
Fancy new toys didn't change the outcome of the Cold War, it just took longer. War only accelerates political change.
Connor Jones
The collapse of the Soviet Union was a disaster for Russia in the short term, with a severe sump in economic and political power, but in the long term it made Russia stronger. Modern Russia is not held back by rigid ideology, it can act more flexibly and pragmatically.
Hunter Barnes
When you hit rock bottom, there's no direction but up. Optimistic thinking on your part, but it doesn't change the grim reality of the situation.
Ayden Morgan
Hitler and Napoleon were also losing their fucking minds by the time they invaded Russia. If a drunk driver plows into a brick wall, it is not much of an accomplishment for the brick wall. It was just hard enough to withstand the determination of a moron.
Joshua Thomas
Russia and the US have been staring each other down for entire fucking decades knowing that the magic nuke button loses all its magic of intimidation once you actually press it. If a conventional war starts directly between the two they might as well dump all the nukes on each other unless they plan on fighting until somebody scrapes an elbow.
James Morgan
Respectfully, I disagree. Russia remains the only power that can present a credible existential threat to Western powers. Without communist ideology holding it back Russia is only going to be more dangerous in the future. If China can keep its progress going we may just see three new spheres of influence on the globe.
Logan Campbell
>Hitler and Napoleon were also losing their fucking minds by the time they invaded Russia
Hello, Reddit. Napoleon was a real bastard, but he was a strategic genius. Hitler was saner than his generals.
Gavin Stewart
Its impossible realistically because both the US and Russia are next to near impossible to invade
If a war did break out between us it'd end quickly
Noah Adams
>Napoleon was a real bastard, but he was a strategic genius.
If he were a strategic genius he would not have lost his Grand Armee in a firetrap.
>Hitler was saner than his generals.
Hello, Stormfront.
Leo Gonzalez
haha no, the u.s brass would be trying to figure out how to include blacks for diversity points during the invasion and then argue about which bathroom to use. the decent white u.s troops would be so demoralized it's likely many would go AWOL , the u.s has nothing to fight for, russia would have everything to fight for
Ayden Bailey
>south florida under water
LOL eat shit you jew fucks
Gabriel Brown
Only in terms of ideology does Russia pose a threat, but I'm not a Neocon or a Neoliberal. The only real, substantial, credible threat to Western power is China. The worst-case scenario is China using its economic might to mobilize a pan-Eurasian coalition comprised of China, Russia, Iran, and (only if the E.U. fails) Germany. It's in American interests to cool down tensions with Russia, detach it from China, and use it as a regional actor to keep China pinned so it isn't "free to roam," just like we did with China and the Soviet Union during the 70s.
Nolan Thompson
i don't think you should be calling anyone else chimps tyrone
Ian Perez
>If he were a strategic genius he would not have lost his Grand Armee in a firetrap.
He would have been even greater than he was if that were the case.
>Hello, Stormfront.
If you actually want to learn something, watch this video.
Elijah Phillips
>>>/Reddit/
Nice meme. You think the tabloids actually are an accurate depiction of how the US military works? God you are delusional...
Blake Barnes
haha much whiter than you mr mutt
Evan Sullivan
no but every sane vet iv'e worked with says the military is one big (((social experiment))), good luck winning any wars when your Apache pilots are fucking each other
Xavier Thompson
Nice VPN, pooloo, but you need to go back.
Nolan Clark
All Russia has over the US is it's nuclear arsenal.
That's their leverage.
Do they even have an aircraft carrier?
Carson Carter
Keep telling yourself that, subhuman.
Aiden Barnes
awwwwww el goblino muy culo devastado
Caleb Jackson
Militaries have always been cesspits of degeneracy. In the latter days of the Soviet Union, the Soviet military became one big homosexual nightmare. Because they lacked manpower after WWII, they literally just drafted prisoners into the military who would overpower and rape the young conscripts they were mixed with. This culture continued for decades.
Elijah Walker
Nope! The US has the most carriers by a landslide in the world. China is trying to develop their own though. The US owns the oceans. PERIOD. Russia would have to use nukes and even then, the US has some of the best planes and AA all over the east and west coasts. Russia would burn in hellfire.
Cameron Wright
>reeeee my 56% country full of third world barrios and ghettos, is better than a 89% white country
come on tyrone, try harder, i know your 80 i.q is stretching but face it , russia is much more white and has a much better future than whatever pavement ape zoo city you were born in
Jordan Brooks
>best planes
>spend 35 billion on next gen and get raped by 70's era fighters, built when your country still was mostly white and heterosexual
such is life in 56% land
Julian Bell
The US taking up the mantle of ruling the seas from the Crown.
George III would be fuming if he could see the world today.
But he would regardless because he was insane.
Jonathan Rogers
There is no such thing as conventional war anymore for Western countries. 'Conventional' only applies to absolute shitholes like African nations.
There is only Cold Wars(Any country with nuclear tech) and Guerrilla wars(Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan)
Julian Wood
Does anyone.womder about how Russia might incentivise some sects of American citizens to turn on the US? In the same way the japs tried to get blacks in WW2 to stop fighting alongside or for whites, could the rooskis drum up support from American whites seeking their own new nation?
Anthony Allen
They already did when they elected Trump.
Angel Phillips
The US can't successfully occupy Russia in less than a year and that means they would face the Russian winter and lose.
Gavin Ramirez
The nukes will fall but I doubt they are the all powerful Armageddon causing weapons hippies claim they are. Was is human.
Noah Ward
you forgot
>plans and all research data are stolen over night in a chinese cyber attack and the only retaliation the US can amount to is asking them to "please stop"
Landon Williams
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Hunter Long
The Russian winter is a meme. The Germans lost not because of winter, but because of the muddy fall season. In winter, wars of maneuver are actually better than any other season, see: the Mongols.
Xavier Johnson
No, but would make a hell of a show if did.
Cameron Green
So, you are saying when the rivers are cold and red, you do NOT go down the muddy trail? :^)