Is he the devil?
Is he the devil?
No. Homura also did nothing wrong.
This is a closer statement
why are we still talking about this shitty show in 2017, you autistic fucks
Yeah, let's talk about Smartphone Isekai instead.
Kyubey, along with Homura, are together a ripoff of Kanzaki Shirou. Urobuchi is a hack.
She undid a purely selfless wish out of the selfish desire to control Madoka
How can he be the devil if he did nothing wrong?
Remember when people said it would be forgotten in just a couple of years?
Go away, Homura!
Kyu is not a nefarious force. He's actually trying to do good in his eyes, he just doesn't have empathy for how it's done.
>Is he the devil?
Kyubey has no sense of good and evil. He is merely trying to further the existence of his own life. If that involved murdering every other species in existence he would do it without batting an eye.
Granted. Now go fight some witches n shit
He is inhumanly human in that regard. But objectively Kyubey isn't evil.
Are there alien meguca? Does Madoka save meguca who contracted from foreign worlds?
Show seems to suggest that the reason Kyubey contracts with humans is that our preteen girls produce the most emotion of any being in existence. So probably not.
Your ethical system where a being who knowingly leads innocents to suffering is not evil is not the standard, and that's why Kyubey is portrayed as an antagonist.
If you believe the psp game there's at least one extraterrestrial magical "girl" out there
>With what wish will you make your soul gem shine?
>Wort wort wort
I don't think Urobuchi wrote anything outside of the shows and movies, so I don't consider it canon
Because they're still working on the fourth movie.
When Gretchen was about to destroy the Earth, QB said that he'd filled his quota for the planet. That implies there are others that the Incubators harvest from.
Oh, you're right. Never mind, then.
>Gretchen gave them more anti-entropy energy than the combined total of all meguca who could possibly exist in the future
damn that's powerful
She did proceed to become a Law of the Universe in the next run, after all
Doesn't mean he's the devil. The devil would be something that purposely causes suffering for the sake of it, or for the sake of being anti-good.
I'm not arguing he's the devil, just that he's evil
Also, your definition of the devil is not universal.
I need art of QB contracting with alien girls.
user please, Homura went through at least 100 attempts. You have no idea how many timelines there were between the "third" one and the present.
Isn't that the one that Madoka wakes up from at the very beginning? I always assumed it was meant to show they were directly connected.
Kyubey is undoubted an antagonist, but his contracts are not made with malice. Suffering is part of it, but people will suffering during their life regardless of any contract.
Hey guys, I think we found the devil we were looking for.
Kyubey's goal is literally to cause as much suffering as possible to these girls. That is an evil action for which Kyubey feels no remorse. His motives are self-involved, and there's no teleological suspension of the ethical to save him either. He is an evil being.
Mephistopheles, but with a lovecraftian spin. Instead of being the manifestation of evil he is something much more terrifying. Something humans can not understand, something completely foreign to our values and humanity.
a vocal and shitposting minority constantly reposting the same threads over and over does not mean it's popular.
All it means is you've gone full millennial and crafted yourself an echo chamber so you can only hear the opinions you like.
It's not an echo chamber if people like you can post
Homura's lizard devil gem is CUTE
It is popular though.
It's actually appropriate in this case.
Seriously, though, I want you to compare the general quality of the posts in this thread with the other threads on this board.
That's the literal definition. A creature that is not from this world, is beyond our understanding and completely impervious to human motivation, life pain and suffering. To a lovecraftian monster humanity is just like a tiny insect.
Disagree. Kyubey's motivations are entirely transparent. He wants to keep the universe running, so he can live forever. The concept of entropy is more lovecraftian than he is.
>ywn have Madoka's stolen power wrapped around your tail
If Homura rubs that jewel, does every girl in the LoC orgasm at once?
>A few dozen people suffer
>The entire universe and all beings that inhabit it keep on living
Kyubey's race are the epitome of the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. In Ethics 101 this is call Utilitarian Ethics, the greatest good for the greatest number,
>Kyubey is actually the Federation from Star Trek
Those benefits aren't passed on to the human race though, since heat death is an incredibly distant concern that we have no reason to care about. So from a human point of view, he's just causing suffering.
Urobuchi wrote another thing to explain to you why Utilitarianism is a bad system of ethics.
An alien creature wanting to maximize suffering because it makes a nice energy source is not lovecraftian in itself, but the fact that it's is perplexed by the humans moral objection to such a scheme sure is.
Neither is your definition of evil universal. But we're going off context of what OP likely means by 'devil'.
I can think of no such example in all the Lovecraft I've read. Even being able to parse an emotion like perplexion undermines his lovecraftian nature
Fine. How about lovecraftISH?
Perplexion isn't an emotion, it's just a state of not understanding
Why does it need to be compared at all? I don't think it's a useful descriptor in this case.
To distinguish it from the devil/Mephisto. It's still a kind of cosmic horror. Madoka Magica is just Faust, but with cosmic horror and a ground hog day timeloop.
For a being that's supposedly totally rational and unemotional, the Incubators demonstrate a lot of pride and hubris. They're constantly (especially in the latter half of the anime and the movie) insisting on their moral superiority, them being necessary to human evolution, how gracious they are to allow us "fellow sentients" a "choice", no matter how contrived, and so on. By the denouement of Rebellion, Kyuubey is almost maniacal about the superiority of his keikaku. Remember that in Christian mythology, the sin of pride is often associated to the devil himself.
You're acting like the descriptor "lovecraftian" makes him somehow better and thus are trying to force it. Stop doing this. End the "cosmic horror = sophistication" meme.
No, my point is that "cosmic horror = lovecraftISH" and that madoka is cosmic horror.
Sure, cosmic horror is fine, there's just a lot more of that than Lovecraft.
I strongly disagree that Madoka can be boiled down to Faust, especially if we're talking about Goethe's, since that's what it quotes. The themes that the two stories explore are completely different.
Pride is the fundamental sin, from which all other sins are derived.
What's the argument behind that?
Homura did nothing wrong
So fucking what? The devil, in Christianity, is a nefarious force purposely contrary to all the good of God. He is evil for evil.
>tfw Homu paid in blood for a talent to the talent-less person who really wanted a talent
>tfw solved her "I WANT TO BE USEFUL" crap in the way she is where she is useful all along, by her family, meanwhile the sacrifice still happened and works
the catch is it's unstable, right? but daum 2 or 3 wishes for the price of one for Madoka
The idea is that all sin stems from a belief that you are superior to God and/or your fellow man, which leads you to prioritize your wants above the rules of the former, and the needs and rights of the latter.
>especially if we're talking about Goethe's
Goethe's Faust is waaaaaay more sophisticated for sure (t. german), but the Faust saga itself is way bigger than Goethe's masterpiece. It's been around since the 16th century. It's the quintessential "sell your soul to the devil" story. Funny how it eclipsed to source material to such a degree that people instantly think about Goethe when Faust is mentioned. Madoka quotes Goethe's Faust, but pulls from the source material, which was very much a warning against bravado and thinking anything good could come from dealing with the devil.
The you're gonna have to explain a little better, friendo.
>no sense of good and evil
Wrong. He's utilitarian. He knows exactly what good and evil are.
Honestly, in the English speaking world I think Marlowe's might be more ubiquitous, and definitely fits what you're talking about better. But that still fits my point, which is that while the Deal with the Devil is vital to Madoka, it's not the core theme. Madoka is about selfless love, as evidenced by the wishes and their consequences.
>Catholics thinking they get to have opinions
your ideologies were btfo 550 years ago, it's time to let go
You're using the conflation of Lucifer/Satan/the snake. It's pleb-tier.
The are passed along to us as we are also inhabitants of the universe.
Utilitarianism isn't the best form of ethics, but I wouldn't say it is entirely bad.
>Madoka is about selfless love, as evidenced by the wishes and their consequences.
True, Dr. Faustus is a jerk who deals with the devil for selfish reasons while Madoka acts selflessly. However, in my opinion, the Faustian tragedy isn't about Madoka, but about Sayaka, whos actions are entirely selfish while masquerading as compassion and justice, which is ultimately what brings her down, while Madoka prevails.
Then what is Satan in your system and how is it like Kyubey? From your post all I can tell is because Kyubey shows pride which is like the devil so he is (implicitly) the devil.
Hey, play nice children. This is anime we're talking about, not scripture. What matters is how it influenced the authors of the series, whether it's right or wrong.
Oh Sayaka's definitely selfish, but that's all part of Madoka's story. Each of the girls makes a presumably selfless wish, Sayaka for romantic love, Kyouko for familial love, Homura for platonic love; But as the story progresses their wishes are shown to be selfish at their core, and they receive an ironic punishment. Only Madoka, whose wish is based on a universal and unconditional love for all mankind, can create a happy ending.
>says the heretic's daughter
She's a lesbian stalker with a crush and you damn well know it.
The problem isn't being selfish, but not being able to admit it. If Sayaka had admitted to herself that she did everything for herself, she would have allowed Homura to give her energy.
Mami exists so that you can know the show disagrees with you. Her wish is selfish love, and her reward is loneliness
>obligatory eurofag insecurity post
I'm not going to play along with that, no.
What's going to happen to the first boy who breaks Madoka's heart in Homura's devil world
Go home Sup Forums. You're not wanted here.
But I'm German.
Her life was fucked to begin with. She wouldn't have been LESS lonely if she rejected the offer. Her parents would still be dead. Sayaka was totally fine before she decided to become a "paragon of virtue".
No time for boys when you've got ballet practicce
Erased from existence.
As soon as he even so much as flirts with her.
It's an Sup Forumsmeme you fucking newfag
She could have wished for her whole family to be saved, but in her moment of crisis thought only of herself. The point is especially driven home when she finally gets new friends in Madoka and Sayaka, but the moment they decide to join her, the moment she is given hope for a break from her solitude, she's killed. Loneliness as a consequence of selfishness is a very intentional and repeated theme in the show.
So, I'm right after all?
Mami actually, as horrifying as it was for us, got away relatively easy. She would live long enough to get some friends, train them to be powerful magical girls (in various timelines), and die a warrior's death in battle surrounded by people who cared for her.
Mami could (should) have wished for her whole family to survive
Sup Forums Anschluss'd Sup Forums a long time ago.