Underdog

Why can't shounen's have a true underdog character? like every shounen you can think have usually have the MC set as the "underdog" however, theyre really not the underdog. Like seriously, cant they have mc's who simply dont have anything special like a rare superpower or some legacy set for them? cant they just be like the ordinary bunch against the above average? Closest to me was MHA but midoriya still has a super op quirk so it takes everything away

because bnha is shit and I don't need to explain why if you don't understand.

The thing is, they can't be totally ordinary if they are going against the above average. Either they fail miserably at everything, or eventually become above average themselves. Pic related is a great example, he was very mediocre at the beggining of his story, he became almost broken by the main story's time, but if he were the MC you would call him OP all the same, because in all honesty he has and always had above average talent.

Rock Lee needs his own no parody anime.

They can be ordinary but achieve their goals slowly through actual hard work and determination instead of muh rare superpower or muh determined legacy

Because having a completely average or below average main character would make for a boring story. Any long running story will have the main character/characters improve themselves to create a sense of progression. If you want a story to have weak or unskilled characters the best you're gonna get is SOL or short stories.

ok bnha is shit but what shounens are better? if you say naruto or fairy taily than you could kys

OP, DB

>tripfagging
>kys

Look at what said, this is exactly my point. You dont need some op ass bs to make yourself strong.There are many side character or even villains who became super strong without the MC's rare superpower bs

Not gonna lie, when I decided to watch MHA I was expecting it to be about a boy making it as a superhero despite not having super powers. Boy was I wrong.

Once again, look at what says. You dont need to be weak, just dont have a fucking cancerous excuse to become op. Like rock lee, for example, before being forgotten by kishimoto he was super strong and shit and you felt like he deserved that shit. In fact, he was given a handcap and overcame that. Thats what a true MC should be

i agree. simply because he is MC worthy.

Ok i agree with you there but bnha is still better than a lot of shounen like black clover, naruto, bleach, etc

Sounds like Megumi to me and we all know how people felt about that recently.

One Piece and HxH.
Also while Naruto is trash, Rock Lee would fit perfectly what OP is asking for.

But they still have to become strong and eventually stop being ordinary, and for that they need some leg up. Even Mirio had the ability to be autistic enough to exploit his shitty quirk like that.

Though I think I understand you, what bothers you isn't the MC being special, but when the MC doesn't earn his specialness in any way, like what happens very blatantly with Midoriya. There aren't many good reasons for All Might to pick him as his successor among more worthy people, he gambled his power and the success of his (and his predecessors') quest on this unknown kid and a hunch. I personally think he had consistent, if not logical, reasons, but Midoriya still comes across as a guy that won the lottery, even when he has heroic qualities.

Basically. I wouldnt even mind all might just giving a portion of his power to midoriya and giving the rest to some other dude, not give him the whole thing. What triggered me more is the fact that they fucking stated midoriya will be the greatest hero ever at the very start. I dont like that

You might like the one shot then, Proto-Deku is a salaryman at a hero agency that wants to be a hero.

Rock Lee doesn't deserve to be in such a shitty series. In fact, the fact that Rock Lee is such a good character and his fight with Gaara is such a good fight that legitimately made me cry, makes me really angry at the fact that Kishimoto is a hack that ran his manga into the ground and focused on shitty characters.

MIRIO SHOULD'VE BEEN THE MC. FUCK DEKU.

It's basically the "heroic legacy" plotline when I expected the "total underdog" plotline.

>bnha is still better than a lot of shounen like black clover, naruto, bleach, etc
For now. Naruto and even fucking Bleach at the start where as good or better than BNHA and then they went to complete garbage.
The last two BNHA arcs, specially the latest, have been mediocre. If the decline continues it won't be any better than Naruto by the time it reaches 300 or 400 chapters.

I feel that's a mistake from the author. I mean, we know that Luffy will become Pirate King, we knew that Naruto would be Hokage, but that doesn't mean you need to state it at the very beggining. In fact, as you keep it in doubt, you can at least create a pretense of suspense or to twist it: if Naruto instead of becoming Hokage had died saving the village, or had decided to take any other path, it would have been surprising, same for One Piece which I'm pretty sure will pull some shit near the ending instead of making Luffy the undisputed Pirate King. But now, unless something weird like "Uraraka was the narrator all along", we know Deku's endgame. Really, ever since All Might gave him his power, we knew his end game: we had it right in front of us.

Stop shitposting Sir Nighteye

What I find interesting from Midoriya is the fact that he could be great taking All Might's role in a sequel: being the teacher of the next OfA user. I hope the next user is Bakugou's child.

So the talented just happened to not also work hard?

megumi from where? SnS? i know 10 megumis

HxH is something else, its amazing and i am not saying there arent shounens that are better than bnha. Jojo is my favourite series rn and its shounen.
Also I already stated how much i like rock lee itt but kishi threw him in the garbage. Plus Lee isnt even MC its naruto who i despise

Also while OP is good, luffy's haki and the clear shit he's gonna get for having the will of the D (hearing poneglyphs for example) its clear he already had the whole "its his destiny" bs going on for him

Basically. I mean dont get me wrong, i know they need to have some stengths, but with in the realm of possibility, y'know? For example, mirio is a great example because he got there through hard work, not luck. He couldve been weak as shit but it was solely his determination that got him there, not faith

What you’re looking for can’t happen.

it's been a while since I read it, but isn't the main character of Gantz like this? Average people put in a compromising situation

They exist. They simply aren't translated. That's the end of this line of inquiry.

Well, someone with natural talent can be or become lazy. Maybe you can have MC starting from a lower point than others and closing the gap with effort (or never closing the gap, but still winning through some trickery). Still, the MC needs at least a little talent to thrive.

The manga that run into the trouble OP describes are ussually the "I want to be the number 1 in X" kind of manga, that by force need the MC to be special in some way or another. If Midoriya, instead of gunning to be the greatest hero ever, went for the greatest hero he could be, he wouldn't need OfA.

Yeah that definitely felt like a mistake.
I still think a surprise twist is possible though. Something along the lines of Deku repurposing his quirk - realizing that the true power lies in empowering others and then giving portions of the quirk away to trusted friends - becoming the ultimate support. It definitely feels like something in his character.

I can only think of sports manga that have actual underdog MC's. Action adventures usually don't.
Black Clover seemed like it was going to do this with the whole "can't use magic while everyone else can" story. But then low and behold, he's got something better then magic anyway.

I think One Piece did it well since a lot of people have devil fruit powers, and stretching seemed kinda stupid in the beginning. He had no crew, and was a nobody except for his straw hat.
Then he got better as the story progressed, because obviously you can't have someone remain an underdog forever.

Fucking agreed. In fact, the side characters at the start were really good and in all honesty, team 7 except kakashi were all my least favourite characters. Kishimoto is shit.

yes which pisses me off. The only thing is that the side characters are having far more spotlight and i still see the chance of bakugou not being overshadowed by deku and make him his equal.

i really hope he gets his quirk back[\spoiler]

ill go check it out thanks

like if it were actually more like Capeshit. The most celebrated heroes aren't really the strongest (unless we're talking Superman). They just fight enemies in their weight class.

But they already equated "strongest" with "best" in BnHA and made sure All Might was leagues better than everyone and passed that power down to the MC.

Japan obviously hates guile heroes since they axed Mx0

Do you have a link for that? The name "My Hero" makes it so hard to find.

Today I will remind them

I cant see it dipping further than naruto. I mean, naruto went t complete shit and dont even start with bleach. bnha is has a far more interesting cast and we know damn well theyll stay relevant which is why id argue that it will be consistently better.

yes but deku couldve been far more than that. Like i dont even like this ending but id find it more satisfying with deku dying and establishing his legacy as the greatest than to see him as All Might 2.0

no youre looking at it 1 dimensionally. They can be exceptional in other aspects and still not be considered OP. For example, i can have an ok quirk but still beat someone with an OP quirk if i am a better fighter and have a far more intelligent strategy to beat them. I dont need faith to give me this stupidly strong power to allow me to win if i use what talent i have.

Ya but midoriya is going to be the GOAT so he wont have a successor thats better.

Even Superman have strong contenders and sometimes fights people outside his league. But yeah, it would have been nice if BnHA were more like Capeshit in that regard.

I miss MX0

rip

>we know damn well theyll stay relevant

Tsuyu and Ochaco did so much

>Ya but midoriya is going to be the GOAT so he wont have a successor thats better

It depends on what you consider as the greatest hero. I feel that him giving away his power under some pressing circumstances or something like that could qualify as the greatest heroic deed (honestly, I think one of the reasons All Might picked him is because he won't have a hard time giving away OfA when the time comes).

Read Sesuji O Pin then. The two protagonist are true underdogs

Because fact of the matter is untalented hard worker does not beat talented hard worker so their has to be some kind of special edge for the "untalented" otherwise the story makes no sense

Just like the author

You're treating I'm smarter than the enemy as not a talent?

The true underdog was Zenkichi though

sauce

I dont really consider Gantz a shounen also basically what said

Yes which is my problem, action series dont ever have true underdogs. Also OP is great, i already mentioned it but it kinda had to go with it since luffy had the super rare strong emperor's haki and also, his will of the D will clearly be heavily influential since he is basically Gol D Roger 2.0

The problem is that Japanese equal "beating" with "being better". As much as I hate Capeshit, two comic characters can fight and beat each other again and again, with no one coming as definitely stronger than the other. The strongest doesn't even have to be the one that wins every time, specially in settings with weird magic like Naruto or special powers like Boku no Hero. If this were a comic book, Aizawa could beat All Might if it were neccessary to the plot, and that wouldn't make Aizawa number 1.

this, kumagawa was the center of attention for a long time, I feel like zen was the only character whose actions started to become more important as the story went on

History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi was a true underdog story. It was a real tragedy that it ended before it's time.

You're asking for Zenkichi.

I think that Luffy's saving grace is that, while being special, he's surrounded by people even more special than him.

Maybe in that case but i find it hard to believe for a shounen

i will thanks

dude, life is simply not like that. Sure, looking at it in one aspect, you cant beat the talented for what theyre good at, just beat them for what they arent talented in

well talented doesnt imply good in literally every aspect. having a character like that is shit, and a series with such a character is shit

It did. It was Mx0 and it got cancel.

Usually the characters are competing in something the "talented" obviously has an advantage in. If you take the "talented" out of their element then it's not an underdog story

yes so for example, you can go against a dude with a stronger ability than you and knows how to fight more, but you can still try to beat him through unconventional means. theres a lot of possibility and its op to the imagination

>posting a page from a series that pull this

Got tired of underdogs really. It's cheap sympathy bait and there's no encouragement to do anything interesting with them.

i still miss that one sometimes

examples?

100% of all """underdogs""" are underdogs for about 2 seconds before they become the strongest in the series.

This scene was glorious.

Literally me.

Kenichi

Zenkichi

context please

no because all underdogs are not actual underdogs so youre tired of psuedo underdogs

Kenichibis the only shonen MC, thatvis a true underdog.
He has no secret special heritage, he isn't some chosen one who is destined tonbe the best, he is just some random fag a bunch of grandmaster martial artists decided to train.
He got by with constant severe training alone, he is one of the few MCs I have ever seen whose only quality truly is that he is a tenacious fucker that never gives up.
While it got worse as it went on I give it props for never giving into the chosen one trope and letting kenichi be a normalfag untill the very end.

someone give me the sauce to this

Those are the worst though. When the guy who clearly has more training and practice and works just as hard as the MC but has a better power loses because of some trick? That's fucking retarded.

really makes you think

So basically you're asking for OPM's character dynamics except the main character is a jobber like Genos?

Characters are given a hint for the next adventure, and everybody figures what it is about... Except for main character, who leaves behind trying to decipher it.
The adventure goes on for several chapters, with every character getting their chance to shine. At the end of it everybody has learned valuable lesson about friendship, and while walking away somebody thinks "actually, didn't we forget something...?"
And then they see main character, still trying to decipher very first hint. Others try to cheer him up, but he totally kills the mood. And that ends the arc.

...Something like that. It has been a while since I read Medaka Box.

You mean like fucking Goku?

how so? its reality. Lets say a pro boxer is trying to kill me and hes just trying to grab a hold of me, im obviously not going to fight him head on so ill try to outsmart him in some way.

That sounds way better than the boxing gods bestowing me the inner power to be the greatest boxer ever and i just need to rely on my will.

thanks for the suggestion guys but i already read the series. its good, a bit too echi but good

This is why the "perpetually made fun of loser best friend" is usually the best character; they're able to actually fulfill the role of an honest-to-god underdog.

underdog mc does not really work in battle mangas.
power creep makes it impossible for them to keep up

His superpower is being crippled.

A WEAK CHARACTER THAT BECOMES STRONG IS NOT AN UNDERDOG

explain further

At some point, I was thinking that maybe Kenichis mother was Sakakis sister, but that would have beaten the special blood thing.

>gets the ability to hardcounter literally every person in the manga
He might be a cripple, but having the ability to nullify magic in a world where everyone uses magic is kinda OP.

depends one what you say when you mean underdog. For example, the problem i have is with shounen mc underdogs because theyre not underdogs. Why? because they possess powers that would make it impossible for them to be underdogs. You can be an underdog relative to everyone at the start but experience and hard work can make you measurable to others

>weak that is really weak and obviously disadvantaged but tries his best vs. overconfident and top of the world peak performance that won't even give the match their all
is true underdog.

then you aren't an underdog anymore. It is no longer an underdog story.

The funny thing is that the hardcountering ironically stops the show from being a powerlevel contest and instead lets the rest of the cast develop. And it's still just two swords, even the possibility of him being related to their creator was shot down.

Characters like Naruto are artificial underdogs. Dude fails his ninja exam million times, but the moment he puts in even a day of effort in he can make like zillion clones of himself. He has shitloads of HIDDEN POTENTIAL, and his circumstances don't even make fucking sense when you look back to the series. He is son of hokage and has fucking worldend demon sealed inside him, but rather than being raised properly he's left to live by himself in an old apartment drinking rancid milk. None of it makes fucking sense.

Naruto is such a fucking piece of shit series. At least the girls were cute.

jojo's bizarre adventure is a battle manga and it didnt necessarily have that op bs

his superpower is op

>Why can't shounen's have a true underdog character?
Kuzumi Taiga says hello

Well when you look at what was popular at the time (Reborn, ES21), it made sense it was axed. Taiga was the antithesis of the wimp-turned-badass trope.

came to post this, glad someone already did it

Exactly. Fake Underdogs are fucking trash.

This series was so awesome, it doesn't deserve the end it got.

>reborn
>wimp turned badass
>turns back into wimp

Is kaneki an underdog?
Hear me out, while he is a half ghoul with muh rize kagune, he isn't the only one who got the same procedure and those people were way more special than him.
He doesn't have any special heritage or any destiny that makes him.fated to become the tokyo ghoul.
In actuality he really is just some unfortunate fag who was at wrong place at the wrong time and got caught up in everyone and their grandma's web of keikaku.

basically. it really does not make any sense if you think about it.

Well yeah, but considering his backstory, there is absolutely no way that he isn't some snowflake or test tube baby or whatever designed to be the vessel for that demon thingie.
Hell even his name is short for Astaroth.

Naruto can't be a fake undersog if he was never an underdog in first place, he made 100s of clones in the first chapter. He was never that weak or far behind his peers, it's obvious if read the chunin exams. make no sense to get mad.

The people in his universe treated him like an underdog until he beat Negi. He was considered the worst of all the graduates

Bc a mc can’t be fully a underdog bc we know they’ll win only side characters can do it