Philosophical Inquiry into the nature of Good and Evil

Today we examine the nature of Good and Evil

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> not understanding that it's all relative

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Moral reductionism isn't the solution cowboy.

Try again.

Good and Evil, explain it.

༻ Flat Earth ༻

Good vs Evil
God vs Devil
Classical dichotomy in religious dogma
Follow the church and you'll win a God-tier prize

The Rightful dichotomy we, humans, can observe in the universe is:
>drum rolls

Order vs Chaos

How do you account for imaginary forms in the mathematical sense, are they too susceptible to physical chaos?

Silence, quelle surprise.

If you want to talk about chaos and order then that's simply the analogy of time outside of the garden of eden, isn't it?

I wouldn't refer to biblical interpretation, you're free to do it
Baguette!
>imaginary forms in the mathematical sense
Maths are a language, order out of concepts through logical thinking. These "forms" are the physical (xyz) representations.

"Order out of chaos" wouldn't life qualify as such? nor planetary systems/galaxies
Think fractal, "as above so below", scale, micro vs macro.
Order and chaos are intricate in the fabric of the universe.

good post

The blueprint of the form is metaphysical

If the earth has no shape and man did not walk upon the surface of the moon, which shape, do you propose, is mars?

Jon?

Terry?

>The blueprint
Order
>the form
out (the separation)
>metaphysical
Chaos

Good : Evil
Light : Darkness
Heat : Cold
Evil is a lack of something. It does not have 'positive' existence.

> →

Nor does entropy but it happens

That doesn't account for

and I'm including you in this
The blueprint of the physical being metaphysical and the question is whether it is subject to metaphysical chaos

There is no evil because it is a parasitic concept. Evil is a mistake, something that can't subsist on its own; that's the reason why vampires have to be invited into the house, by the way.

Book of Isaiah says otherwise.

It states
I create darkness and light, I create good and evil, I the lord do all these things.

God doesn't make mistakes.

Unless you are suggesting God is not the creator of the perfected version of the reality of it all.

>I create darkness and light, I create good and evil, I the lord do all these things.
You're taking it too literally, it means that he allows it to exist by proxy since he's providing the substance.

>God doesn't make mistakes.
Never said he does. Evil springs forth because we are capable of not following our destiny/God's Providence, hence why it's a mistake: you can be called, but if you don't comply you give evil a "platform" by perverting the natural order.

My bet would be, as some fields are preserved, during singularity type events... probability poping first in my mind.

The form that matter (or anti-matter) would follow is the most efficient (energy, universal constants, all factors considered)

Like a story that would illustrate:
If you shake a bag of sand an infinite amount of time, the most organised way the grains would adjust, is the state (within infinity) that will be prevalent (among all other).

No pal, you are being wishy washy in your acceptance of the word.

You aren't taking it literally enough.

God in Genesis 322 refers to himself as plural.

"One of Us"

Man has become like "one of us"

You can't have within infinity, it's a mathematical paradox although, you could apply it to the reflection of mirrors and parallel postulates

Oh sorry you are actually right on the meaning within - as in within the state of and not the object

>You aren't taking it literally enough.
Because I'm a neo-platonist. My Word is not exactly the same as yours, even if they are extremely similar.

What if this is truly a virtual state of being and knowledge equates to providence over the world

What do you like about Plato?

>The blueprint of the physical being metaphysical and the question is whether it is subject to metaphysical chaos
Why would you assert "the blueprint" as metaphysical, in the first place?
Whether it is meta or not, IT IS SUBJECT to the opposite.

In metaphysical thinking:
The purest concept is nothingness, because there is just that... nothing else
What would be order without chaos? nothing

A satisfying explanation for the origin of existence; the objective existence of Justice; precedence of Justice over Freedom - responsibility; the knowledge that I have a part to play, and yet that I'm not that relevant to the grand scheme of things.
Mainly.

>The purest concept is nothingness, because there is just that... nothing else
This man would like to have a word with you. You really can't talk about nothingness, our nature doesn't allow it. You can have an inkling of it, and even that is a tainted concept because it carries "something".
>What would be order without chaos? nothing
Chaos doesn't exist, only ordered processes of changing from one form to the other. The acting of choosing is itself the taking of of a certain chain over another.

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It has to be metaphysical if it is mathematically flawless, correct?

Nothing is Chaos to the Greeks.

I know Chaos.

Justice is implemented metaphysically.

As of now, considering the state of what human society knows about matter, atoms.

To picture the scale (create order)of an atom:
the core (where the mass is assumed to be) is a golf ball, now you put that ball in the middle of a 100K stadium.. This stadium is approximatly (for hydrogen if i'm correct) the size of an atom.

what's between the core and the electrons, is considered empty, thus you can consider all matter around you 99.99975% empty...
Furthermore this atom representation is a concept, you can consider them also as frequencies... so the "virtual" approach of consciousness is rational...

Atoms?

Dude you're so last century.

I'm a quantum theorist.

You mold yourself according to it to act it out. Being Just is a matter of being aligned or not with what's expected of you.

>Nothing is Chaos to the Greeks.
That depends on who you ask, really, and on what you mean. I can read this sentence in two ways.

How do you think I know there isn't really a Parsons crater?

Cosmos is Order and Nothing is Chaos

Hence the old "something out of nothing"

rabbit out of the top hot.

I shouldn't think in an anonymous environment we have a reference immediately so we mould ourselves from nothing again

It's an ethical duty to fully subjugate & if need be; kill, all high-criminal conspiracy collaborators involved in violence, namely the CULT members running the United States who are involved in violence towards children via human trafficking & sexual assault.

Whether there are 10 conspirators or 1,000,000 only means how big of a clean up would be necessary..

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Ah I see, you're referencing how they believe in the eternity of the universe, if I understand correctly. I honestly think it's a non-issue, if we posit the "existence" of God/the One, the problem vanishes because we are no longer bound to the something out of nothing question. Time simply doesn't acquire meaning before the universe comes into be, thus being eternal, but it is created because it is metaphysically dependent on something else and, more importantly, radically different.
>I shouldn't think in an anonymous environment we have a reference immediately so we mould ourselves from nothing again
The Logos is already inside us because we come from it, we simply have to recognize it/bring it out.

Time is a consequence of a particular form of being.

>Nothing is Chaos to the Greeks
in a sens yes, if

>>The purest concept is nothingness, because there is just that... nothing else
>This man would like to have a word with you. You really can't talk about nothingness, our nature doesn't allow it. You can have an inkling of it, and even that is a tainted concept because it carries "something".

I would love to meet him, do you have means of transportation? any 4th dimentional travelers here?
I think you're missing my interpretation, "nothingness", even though you have to consider your consciousness (the observer), is a singularity without reference, that's why i would consider it as pure. Nothing except nothingness.
"pure"Energy? implies an amount, even uniformed.

>you can consider all matter around you 99.99975% empty...
>Furthermore this atom representation is a concept, you can consider them also as frequencies... so the "virtual" approach of consciousness is rational...
That's sooo 20th century thinking lol

in a sens yes, if you consider "everything" being expression of Order

>Time is a consequence of a particular form of being.
True, we are saying the same thing with different words.

>I would love to meet him
you can, he left some stuff behind
>is a singularity without reference
Is it really though? You have to purposely exclude the fact that yo have to formulate it - as you yourself noted - and I don't think it makes the cut. There's also the matter of how can you call it pure. Purity adheres to something, always, and as such it cannot be said that nothingness possesses such a quality. I get what you're trying to say, but it seems to forced to me.

Well of course, how else would you consider it.

No a blueprint would be the pure representation of the system or structure.

A good way to further understand
Nothing VS Everything
the VS is referencial, and as with order and chaos, or good and evil...
One cannot exist without the other, because it looses any relative referential

You started the thread. Since those words are subjective you should explain what you think they are

Correct, which is what the Ideas were trying to be in Plato's mind.

I could "everything" consider it as a chaos/order self balanced environment, ergo "known" universe (what would be "everything" considering the actual reach of human consciousness)

>One cannot exist without the other, because it looses any relative referential
You're working under the assumption that you need those categories to understand the world "before the fact", while it's not true. The opposition to the positive element is found after: "nothing" is an image of possibility, of the not-yet and of what-could-be, but it's our broken mind that summons it, you don't stumble upon it.
It's a sign of our prerogative - freedom - and our curse - incompleteness.
>One cannot exist without the other
In our minds, yes, but not at a metaphysical level.

There is a cringe with the word "blueprint" as of plan/visualisation of concept/idea
The structure takes a concept as reference to be said structured, isn't it?
Ideas could be self replicating order...
And creativity is an orderly force, making out of chaos, "something"
As there are destructive forces that balance order, so that it don't become chaos itself

>The structure takes a concept as reference to be said structured, isn't it?
Yes, this is one of the main problems of the Ideas, them needing something other than themselves to actually be "blueprints", as the other user calls them. My solution calls back to my concept of alignment, the Ideas are blueprints "accidentally" by virtue of being the prime existences, and everything else more or less looks at them to be informed. As such, they "become" blueprints in the observer, without actually being blueprints "in themselves": the lesser follows the Ideas-in-their-minds as opposed to the actual Ideas, which is also a way to account for variation.

>not understanding that its not relative at all in a practical sense
faggot

>You're working under the assumption that you need those categories to understand the world "before the fact", while it's not true. The opposition to the positive element is found after: "nothing" is an image of possibility, of the not-yet and of what-could-be, but it's our broken mind that summons it, you don't stumble upon it.
>It's a sign of our prerogative - freedom - and our curse - incompleteness.
And to be honest, it's extremely hard to make sens of THIS^^^
"I know that I know nothing" this dude gives an advice for thinking hygene.

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Alright alright, I let the theatrical juices get out of control, my bad.
The positive concept - everything, order and good - doesn't not necessitate its counterpart "by nature". WE have to posit them, and those are images we use to make sense of what is around us. We see difference, empty space and the likes, and we formulate a concept for it that seems to be the contrary of the more general ones.
It is however due to our own limitations: WE need nothingness to better understand the "everything", but everything doesn't need nothingness to be what it is. What I'm saying is that you're mistaking a logical necessity for a metaphysical truth.

>Ideas are blueprints "accidentally" by virtue of being the prime existences
>being the prime existences
>prime existences
>prime

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Im gonna have to disagree here. The mere theoretical though of good posits evil. You cant have one without the other. If something is good, then there has to be something NOT good by nature. Whatever form of sensibility it offends, there is an opposite that pleases it. The truth of nature is that there is no good and evil. It is concious thought that produces these things. If you consider all things good, even those things considered pure evil by society, thats just anarchy. Not metaphysical thought. The only thing both good and evil in this world is concious thought amd the actions that result.

The very concept of ‘Order’ has recently been challenged with Time Crystals. They consist of an ordered whole consisting of unbalanced (chaotic) parts providing an unbalanced system in stasis.

Seems like the only Universal Constant is change.

The battle of good vs. evil seems pretty real.

Time crystals. Yes another theoretical fancy of lunatics

>If something is good, then there has to be something NOT good by nature
Eh, I'm trying to argue that evil is simply impossibile because it doesn't stand alone, but needs a platform.

>Update

It needs a platform to degrade you mean?

Im saying that good is the same way

No longer theoretical if you science.

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Yes, that's what being a parasite means.

I'm sorry but you're working under the premise man went to the moon

>WE need nothingness to better understand the "everything", but everything doesn't need nothingness to be what it is. What I'm saying is that you're mistaking a logical necessity for a metaphysical truth.
Fair!
WE, being manifestations of order, emphasize order around US.
Still cringy about "everthing", in our way to reach(understanding) the whole, go beyond the limits of the current "everything" representation (even though physical,yet conceptual, pic related)
There is YET "Nothing" except "Everything"
and the concept of everything evolves further toward orderly chaos, ergo order.
hooktube.com/watch?v=FVDJJVoTx7s (Nice vid BTW)
Nothing is a concept that is a necessity to understand "everything"
As to understand what's beyond to assert what it is...

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Good and evil are relative, which means, in the end, as they are also opposites, that they define each other.
What is good? Is it good to let in rapefugees? Yes. Sure it is, for the refugee. Is it evil to deny rapefugees acces to your country? No, they must protect and work on their own countries.
Is it good and evil to let in refugees or to deny them? Yes. Absolutely.
So should we let in refugees? No, because it is bad and almost evil. You deprive their origin countries from fighters, workforce, fathers and woman and so much more, just because you feel bad for them.
However this feeling, is it good or an evil feeling? Or rather, will it lead to one or the other. It will lead to evil.

If you move beyond this view of duality you will understand that Hitler is the greatest european to ever live and most likely to ever live. Was hitler evil? Sure. Was Hitler good? Sure.
If we look at the totality of hitler and the consequence of him doing himself, namely Hitler, we will see that he has been a tremendous force for good and also one for evil.
If we look at the totality of thte consequence and not just one part of a dualitic view or model of interpetration we will see that because of Hitler, our lives are shaped by him. Saying what is evil and what is good is nonsense untill you can see all of the consequences.

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In the abscence of God there are no moral truths inherent in the universe. But it is not nothing. It is blank. You have to impose upon this emptiness what you WILL.

I disagree in that there is state outside of good and evil.

Ideas exist - unicorns exist.

Everything is our conceptive limit of the framework we operate within

I mean if you really want unicorns to exist you better invent them yourself. Don't try to argue that they do.

Logically they do exist despite not existing in the class of men.

Do aliens exist in a quantum class of men being that they are and are not men?

You are sorry, just not in the way you implied, and i’m oh so impressed with your medium skills cleverly camouflaged behind your straw man.

I was the guy who stayed behind to pan the camera up and threw the pixie dust into the rocket wash to make the pretty colors when we left the moon.
Your assumptions are puppy like cute.
Shown to be ignorant, proceed to bling, straw grasping character attack. Fucking nu-pol.

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>Good and evil are relative, which means, in the end, as they are also opposites, that they define each other.
Oh I forgot to mention something.
Look at the political spectrums of today, left and right.
Look at how US lefties are always talking and acting. They are clearly under the impression that they are the "good" guys, but why do they have this impression?
They actively deny any form of evil in themselves and their ideas, which means that they are the ultimate force for evil to arise.
Imagine if you always thought, that your intentions are whats going to happen, when you realise a goal of urs. Doesnt matter if its gay rights or anything else. They only want to talk about things on a surface level of understanding, which means they cant dig deeper into the thought themselves, because they cant and refuse too, the right does it for them, making the right look evil to the leftie.
The right however use logic more to a certain extent then the left, the left typically just manipulates feelings, words and so on.
The right tries to insist upon something being objective to people who do not care about it, cause they only see their own intentions manifested as a reality.

Which one is good and which one is bad?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
The road to heaven is paved with necessary evil.

Let me go a bit deeper into the hell and heaven thing.
The US is a country like any other. Some peoples lived somewhere and someone made it into a country and defended it.
However, the reason the US is different is because of the Indians, the pooinnawoods kind.
If the people who migrated to US had been Christians of a higher understanding and of spirit, they wouldve massacred them all.
Why? Because the Christians follow the eternal life, which means, if the indians survive they will have that genocide hanging over them for all eternity.

For the fun, i'll drop a probability truth bomb, a nice fictional story:
Time travel is possible, as space travel, therefore it has ever existed.
The past is still happening, as is the future, the present is the only consistent reality, the moment.
Technologies are spontaneous manifestations in space time, and very diverse.
Moon is an artificial satellite built, by time travelers to monitor earth. (dark side of the moon)
1/8 of pop are time agents. 4th dimention beings

You're rude and obnoxious with no ideas of your own.

Space travel is time travel.

dimensional travel

>Today we examine the nature of Good and Evil
All men are depraved
All men are enslaved to sin
You can (continually, each moment) either accept Jesus or reject Him
By rejecting Him you continue to be enslaved by sin
When you accept His gift you believe in righteousness and emancipated from the slavery of sin
Every decision is a choice you make between slavery vs freedom

98% of the post is an attempt to puke on someone that give you some adversity...
what a brave man...
You need to scream out loud THE reality, and everyone else shut up and don't contest...
"I gut proof everythang is fUk'd Up, Why nobudy iz listenniiing to, muh, muh, mmeeeeeeeeeeee...!"
1% ponctuations, 1% pic

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hong kong man even with morals you would be penisfucksex

You’re a pseudo intellectual fraud. My idea!

A theoretical theorist in your basement. May your parents meet your needs in life and may your own personal evolution bring you some civility and self awareness.

You are a lowly pip squeak, be gone.