Shinji Matou, evil or misunderstood?

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Shinji is a victim.

A fag. Just like you.

Shinji is a failure. An evil failure. Suffers everytime.

he just wanted to play magus but his dad was an asshole

>cock status : defeated

One of us

>omoutofag
He is /ourguy/

Simple. He was born with a silver spoon, has no talent, and has an inferiority complex. I guess being a teenage males could be added.

Uhm... evil.

hes a terrible person who does everything in his power to cause suffering to others the moment said power is given to him

quite frankly he is more morally reprehensible than just about every other villain in Fate - with his malice only being counteracted by his massive incompetence

A best, A BEST!

Misunderstood. He wanted to share Sakura with Shirou even though he already owned her. What a bro.

Shinji...I don't get why he gets all the hate on Sup Forums. FSN is just written to make him out as the bad guy, when really he's no worse than any of the 'protagonists' and a better person than most of them.

What are the main complaints? He raped Sakura and stole Rider to use in the war?

Okay, let's get this straight. He never fucking raped Sakura. He never did it. He never did it. He never did it. He never did it. He fucked Sakura.

Let me ask you this. WHO IN THE GAME DIDN'T FUCK SAKURA? You can't even name one fucking character who hasn't plugged her loose cunt! She is the kind of bitch who will act like she doesn't want it when she really does. She'll say No! while having multiple orgasms. Shinji knew this, he's a fucking ladies man. He knows what filthy whores like Sakura want.

And there's this other big bitch you guys have with him. He supposedly stole Rider and used her in the war for his own greed.

Objection! He was worried about his one and only precious sister. Is keeping your loved ones from a brutal war so wrong? When Shirou does the same thing to Saber it's like 'oh he's so manly', but when Shinji does it it's wrong? He just wanted to protect Sakura. He probably was going to use his Holy Grail wish to tighten her cunt back up or cure her syphilis or something.

The story was written to make that faggot Shirou look good. Objectively, Shinji is a far better character than Shirou. At least he has the balls to take action decisively instead of dicking around like Shirou, and if he weren't stuck with the weak ass servant Rider and no plothax he probably would have won the war.

>more morally reprehensible than just about every other villain

Not with his background.

DEEN Shinji's eyes make him look so dead inside... I feel for him.

A relatable guy.

He's just misguided. He wants to be popular, win over his crush, and protect his sister. He wants to be the strongest man in his family. He's just too weak to do anything about it, so he turns to evil to make up the difference.

If you look at Shirou, they're exactly the same. Weak, idealistic fools who are vastly outclassed by the masters who were born and raised for the sake of the Holy Grail War. Shirou could have easily become a Shinji if Kiritsugu hadn't nurtured him. Because of Kiritsugu, he wanted to become a mage, and he fell in love with the idea of saving people. They both have lofty and arguably unrealistic goals.

The difference is, Shirou didn't turn to methods that hurt anyone. The only person who ever gets hurt is himself. This is something that becomes a problem for him later, but everyone still likes him. Shinji, on the other hand, has no respect for others, and defiles everything he comes across while blaming it on everyone but himself.

He's naturally hateable. Nobody wants to be Shinji.

He could have been Shirou's true bro.

If there was no third route you could at least say that he is doing most of the evil shit just because he is stuck in horrible situation against his will like Emiya and is only trying to survive. By willingly joining the grail war without working magic circuits he proves that he is cartoonishly evil idiot.

Why does Sakura buy cheap stuff?

Retarded spaghetti spiller, goes nuts then attaining some power. A fun guy with a terrible sense of humor. Ladies man, fucks his sister, yet is absolutely hysterical in human interactions.
>Hurr durr muh background, he's a victim

The only saving grace is, ironically, the cause of all misfortune - his general incompetence in everything he does. Almost like he was made villain before his character was thought out and placed into the story as it currently stands.

Based.

Best boy.

>his backgroud
being an insecure bitch isnt an excuse

literally the only people worse than him are Giles, kirei and Zouken

and two of those are insane

yeah this

>He's just misguided
>He's just too weak to do anything about it, so he turns to evil to make up the difference.
thats not misguided, thats evil

he likes having power over people, he likes hurting people, hes willing to do immoral things to get what he wants

>quite frankly he is more morally reprehensible than just about every other villain in Fate

Nah, Kirei and Ryuunosuke are the worst masters.

>Has a picture of himself above his shitpost station
I expected nothing less

>than just about every other villain
hes worse than Medea,Gilgamesh, quite possibly Zouken and certainly than the not-quite-villains antagonists of Illya and Berzerker

Gilgamesh does terrible things yes, but at least in UBW its done for a "good" reason (at least in his mind), same with Zouken- who is also insane

the people worse than him are, team COOL: who are sociopaths and child killers who commit murder for the kicks of it, and Kirei, who is his own can of worms

its true that Shinji doesent have some great evil scheme to summon satan or feed the world to Cthulhu, but he shows himself to be as sadistic, murderous and vile as the people who do

the only reason he doesemt murder countless people is because hes incompetent

Ryuunosuke was a child-murdering psychopath, but he at lease cared about Gilles in the end. Shinji is completely self-absorbed and does nothing but bark orders and bitch about how he's being slighted when it turns out he can't cut the mustard.

Neither evil nor misunderstood, just extremely petty. He has the personality and tendencies of a retail tier peasant, but he just happened to be born into money.

Evil.

No I won't reply to you sycophant apologists.

Kotomine Kirei is based as heck. He wins holy grail wars, and fights Assassin 1v1, fights Kiritsugu 1v1 and doesn't afraid of anything.

Kirei deserves his popularity, hes both unrepentantly evil yet somehow also understandable in his quest for understanding

his daughter is pretty good too

t.Shinji

cuck

He's just a prick.
>quite frankly he is more morally reprehensible than just about every other villain in Fate
Yeah no, you're being a sentimental retard. Shinji is petty compared to "dude I'll end the world for my satisfaction".

>they're terrible monsters, b-but [insert dumb emotionally driven reason that amounts to "I like this character more"]
No. Anyone who wouldn't take a joke like Shinji over a fucking serial killer is braindead.

>protect his sister
Except during the many times he feels taking his anger out on her to be more important. Either Shinji had no compassionate goals in the first place or he's less consistent about achieving them than a squirrel on acid. Neither bode well for his morality.

>Ryuunosuke was a child-murdering psychopath, but he at lease
You really think you can put an "at least" after child-murdering psychopath?
You should rethink your priorities.

>our guy

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>No. Anyone who wouldn't take a joke like Shinji over a fucking serial killer is braindead.
except shinji isnt above being a serial killer, he tries murdering his entire school for mana with BFA, nor is he above feeding civilians to rider, or rape

the difference between shinji and ryunuusuke is that the latter is competent enough to be successful in his evil

I swear to god if i see this same post again in a thread about Shinji...

>Ryuunosuke
>competent
Getting beaten by Rin and heads shotted by Kiritsugu is competent?

Shinji is just Shiki but without the op abilities or redeemable qualities

hes competent enough to be a serial killer and not be caught, he was over his head with magi but before that he was managing

Where did it all go so fucking wrong?

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>I know the character is a joke but will put them on level with one who is no joke because I'm butthurt.
You are something else. Sorry, I choose the one who is only acting out in a situation vs the one who's a seriously danger to the community regardless.

When he learned that he had no aptitude for magic and his grandfather brought in some girl so he could stuff her pussy with worms.

Because it's ketchup and they're in Japan not to mention Sakura cooks. To them ketchup only goes on omelets the fucking madmen.

I feel the fact that Sakura hasn't raped Shirou before the VN starts is proof enough of her self-discipline. The guy is a orphaned peasant whose magic is so hilariously specialized that literally any true magus could enslave him effortlessly.
Remember that the Nasuverse's magic society is based on eugenics. The -only- reason Shirou has not been captured and bred like a horse is because Rin's parents are dead and she hasn't adjusted to their job yet. Even then, Shirou spends half of Ataraxia being passed around by female magi and slaves of higher rank than him.
If Shirou had any sense, he would be thanking God he wasn't born in medieval times.

>acting out in a situation
if your response to being given power is to try and kill your school using magic and then rape your crush chances are you are evil

of course hes less dangerous that mr.cool- but thats because hes an immense fuck up, incompetence does not excuse evil

Yep. Even Gil was willing to actually work for what he wanted.

To quote the 101 Dalmatians (no, really): "the only difference is that Cruella is strong and bad and [her husband] is weak and bad."

basically

Why does Nasu keep trying to make characters that are closet gay for the MC? Shinji was clearly going to be gay for Shirou and Satsuki from Tsukihime was initially supposed to be a guy at school who was gay for Shiki.

I don't excuse evil, that's what you've been doing to suggest those characters aren't really worse than Shinji so you can continue liking them.

It's okay to like characters who are terrible people, but if you don't think a joke like Shinji is preferable to serial killers and genocidal maniacs, your sense of reason is warped.

>Shinji was clearly going to be gay for Shirou
Fujoshit please

>worse than shinji
as people? shinji is absolute bottom of the barrel

in terms of actions? hes not nearly as bad as others, but once again- its because he fuck up in his evil, not because he doesent try it

>prefferable
I would rather have to deal with Gilgamesh than Shinji with Gilgamesh's powers

Oh come on, he's obsessed with Shirou to the extreme and is constantly surrounded by women. He's your cookie cutter homo.

Both
He is a really fucked up guy and his actions tend to be the lowest of the low, yet people forget how shitty is his life and this is the reason he is mostly like this

>Shinji lives in the UBW ending
>Rin and Shirou fuck off to England and Sakura is forced to stay and take care of him
I know F/HA make it out to be an okay ending for her, but the fact she now takes care of her former rapist step-brother while the guy she loves is off fucking her sister in england is a pretty shit ending for Sakura.

Shinji is the personification of Sup Forums. While Sup Forums self-interests as the heroic, modest, and chaste hero it's actually the weak, beta, rapey sperg that shinji is.

How the fuck did Shinji even survive being turned into the Grail by Gil?

>Ufotable fell for the "did nothing wrong" memes and is trying to humanize this rapist

What went wrong?

i always like his hair

it is cool

>yet people forget how shitty is his life
he was the heir to a wealthy family, his life "sucked" because his ego was crushed by finding out that he isnt as special as he wanted to be

he could have just focused on muggle shit and had a promising future, maybe invest his families money and make it big. but instead he let his resentment over not being a mage consume him

there are worse endings out there

Unless he is a will-less robot, no reason is good enough. He quite obviously enjoys everything he does.

>as people? shinji is absolute bottom of the barrel
And none of those characters are better in spite of your sentimentality.
>its because he fuck up in his evil, not because he doesent try it
Good, because he's a joke. He's written to be a joker. And you're here absolving, even preferring, serious threats who aren't.
>I would rather have to deal with Gilgamesh than Shinji with Gilgamesh's powers
The same exact scenario?

I will never forgive the movie for cutting to Shinji immediately after it shows the wormroom. The implication is that he suffered there, not Sakura.

>Shinji wanted to be a magus so badly
has he not seen what the Matou family magecraft consisted of?

>And none of those characters are better
I am not defending ryuunusuke or Giles, Im saying that Shinji is evil enough to be on their level

>Good, because he's a joke. He's written to be a joker.
that is no justification

If I try and explode a hospital with an RPG but miss that doesent make me any better


>The same exact scenario?
yes, I think- Im not really sure what youre saying here

i didnt want to kill a thread like a responsible person so im posting here. What is this character style called again? I know this is from mou ikkai but im asking for the name of their chibi versions

>If I try and explode a hospital with an RPG
That's not how that works at all.

>hasn't read Nasu's character bio
He was always meant to be "human". Sakura herself humanizes him.

>If I fire an RPG at a hospital
is that better you fucking pedant?

but he IS human, thats the point

hes the fucking bottom of the barrel, the worst humans can be, but hes still a person

He did. And he still wants to be a magus. I guess seeing the corpse of your mother who died because you are a useless muggle doesn't really help with your self-worth issues.

>I am not defending ryuunusuke or Giles
Hard to tell, given how you guys give them, Gil, Kirei, etc. leeway with excuses like "they're insane" or "I like them better".
>that is no justification
It's not justification, it's facts. Shinji is preferable to all those guys. You have a screw loose if you don't think so. And he gets saved in UBW and things are better. Another uncomfortable fact.

You forget that hatred and resentment are very strong emotions that not everyone can overcome.
True. I also dislike him but honestly I can't ignore his past.
I do find his Extra CCC incarnation better

>Shinji is preferable to all those guys.
IN.WHAT.WAY

he is less threatening and dangerous than them, but thats because hes a worthless loser- not because he isnt every bit as evil as them, hell as a person (i.e based on personality and such things alone) he is worse than some of them, to the extent that Gilgamesh IS a better person than Shinji because at least he tried to make the world a better place- yes his method was immoral and monstrous, but from another perspective its a necessary and logical step (Im not saying hes right/was justified mind you)


>"theyre insane"
isnt so much an excuse as an explanation

Shinji>Shirou
You literally can'r prove me wrong.

why yes, yes I can

youtu.be/d2npn_pS57s

>powerlevel shit
Are all anti-shinjifags this shallow?

"I hate Shinji because he's a bad person" is just a shitty excuse in a franchise filled with characters who are bad people yet are loved. Shinji is hated because he's not endearing: he's lame and his actions feel more personal because he knows the main characters of the story. This was intentional on Nasu's part.

shinji with power would still not kill even half as many people as gilgamesh does, because shinji would only kill people that he thinks are a threat to himself or his pride while gilgamesh effectively declared war on the entire modern human race outside of like 10 people

You're either just more attracted to gilgamesh than you are shinji or a real broke brain

>bad people yet are loved
because those characters have redeeming traits, from their character/personality to their goals they have SOMETHING positive about them

meanwhile shinji is pathetic and deplorable in every aspect

Reminder that Sakura herself knows Shinji did nothing wrong. Here she is pouring her heart out, literally everything she's kept bottled up for years, and not once does she blame anything on Shinji. And how knows Shinji better than Sakura?

>IN.WHAT.WAY
Being much less fucked up and competent? If you would prefer serial killers and genocidal maniacs to Shinji, you have issues. And there you go trying to make excuses for Gil (you call them "explanations" but you're using them as excuses).

>Being much less fucked up and competent?
but hes not less fucked up, hes just worthless

There you have it. Canon proof that Shinji did nothing wrong.

>And there you go trying to make excuses for Gil
im not saying he doesent do bad things, Im saying hes less bad than Shinji as a person

which he is

Yes, you don't care that they're bad, you care about they're likable. Shinji is not very likable as a character.

Has nothing to do with good or bad, just you not understanding your feelings.

I consider wanting to commit genocide more fucked up than anything about Shinji.

>you don't care that they're bad, you care about they're likable
except being bad is an unlikeable trait

those other characters have likeable traits to counteract it, shinji doesent

I consider wanting to feed your school to a monster for mana worse than trying to fix the world

If Shinji has zero worth then Gil has negative worth because he is actually good and ruining everything.