IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY MARKINGS OR EMBLEMS OR LOGOS.
>BTFO
IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY MARKINGS OR EMBLEMS OR LOGOS
Eli Evans
Other urls found in this thread:
youtu.be
youtube.com
youtube.com
archive.org
markdotzler.com
ae911truth.org
youtu.be
en.wikipedia.org
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
vimeo.com
twitter.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
abbourne.com
911myths.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
twitter.com
Mason Carter
It's also fake, it's a composite on the tv.
Did you know that Israel attacked the USA on 9/11? And I have proof: youtu.be
Xavier White
>He thinks New York even exists
Foolish mortal
Jacob Peterson
Top Five Missions by Israel's Sayeret Matkal
youtube.com
>the first victim of 9/11, Daniel Lewin, was an elite captain in Israel's Sayeret Matkal
>he was allegedly stabbed to death with boxcutters on Flight 11, the first plane to hit the WTC, after being seated between two alleged hijackers
>but his seat number 9B is cited as a hijacker in the official 9/11 transcript by attendant Betty Ong
>notice how Sayeret missions frequently target airports, airplanes, and occur behind enemy lines, using disguises, including as airport staff and Muslims
>Benjamin Netanyahu is ex-Sayeret. He once disguised himself as an airport technician to kill Muslim hijackers; his brother died raiding an airport for Sayeret in Operation Thunderbolt, also called Operation Jonathan in his memory
>Lewin's father was a Zionist Israeli poet who hated America. He refused to visit Daniel...until the week before 9/11. He literally departed back to Israel on 9/10
>Lewin's company Akamai is responsible for handling US Internet traffic on 9/11, and now has offices in Israel
>Lewin was an alum of Technion aka Mossad University
Pure coincidence? Or was 9/11 a Sayeret/Mossad operation? What did Daniel Lewin know? Why is he never celebrated as a hero if he attempted to kill hijackers as reported?
Flight 11 is the plane the "Dancing Israelis" of Urban Moving Systems were arrested for celebrating and photographing as it crashed. They were ordered deported to Israel, after 71 days of FBI interrogation, by Zionist Homeland Security head Michael Chertoff. Their employer Dominik Suter entirely abandoned the UMSystems business and fled to Israel, before it was raided by FBI.
Do your research Sup Forumsaks. 9/11 was a Sayeret Matkal operation.
Wyatt Gomez
Specific Israelis/Sayanim involved in 9/11
>AIR TEAM
Daniel Lewin (AAF11) (Sayeret Matkal captain)
Edmund Glazer (AAF11) (Lewin's seat mate)
>GROUND TEAM
Oded Ellner (arrested) (Urban Moving Systems)
Omer Marmari (arrested) (UMS)
Yaron Shmuel (arrested) (UMS)
Paul Kurzberg (arrested) (UMS)
Sivan Kurzberg (arrested) (UMS)
Dominik Suter (UMS boss/owner) (fled to Israel with wife, abandoning UMS offices in NJ and selling house, after one round of FBI questioning; multiple PCs seized by FBI from UMS remain classified)
>US GOV OPERATIONS / COVERUP
Dov Zakheim (head of Pentagon, certified practicing rabbi) (formerly of SPC Systems, which specialized in advanced confidential automated/remote milcraft flight technology)
Michael Chertoff (ordered deportation of five arrested UMS Israelis and dropped FBI investigation, after pressure from Jewish state) (initiated surveillance/security state, reaping millions in profit from scanners etc, now owns Chertoff Group, which lobbies for new scanner tech to US Gov)
Larry Silverstein (his role/foreknowledge is exaggerated; he was a billionaire sayanim who looked the other way and was rewarded) (then new owner of WTC)
These names/people are the strings we yank to unravel the Israeli plot that was 9/11. While there were likely some Saudi hijackers aboard the aircraft, they were completely shadowed by Israeli operatives, as seen with the "Israeli art students" in Hollywood FL. Speculation: Some of the identified hijackers were professionally stolen identities used by Sayeret Matkal operatives who casually dressed as Muslims on 9/11.
A very interesting detail: in an official 9/11 FBI report, Anne Lewin, the Jewish wife of Daniel Lewin, confided that when he boarded AAF11 on 9/11, he was wearing a metal "Swatch watch." In 2000, Lewin was photographed wearing this watch at his company office by photog Jason Grow. The watch is a retrodated match for the Hijacker model in the Irony Collection seen on Swatch's website
Luke Sanchez
>the plane had no markings! It must be a conspiracy!
Don’t mind the fact that liquid metal was falling out the side of the building meaning that the steel structure was melting even though jet fuel can’t burn hot enough to melt steel
Ryan White
Never mind that thermite residue was found in the rubble
Matthew Baker
>Steel is the only metal in a massive skyscraper
Jayden Baker
Why is it fake?
Tyler Harris
you think the budget of the 9/11 operation was so small they couldn't afford to paint the United logo and color scheme on the military plane you claim hit the building? grow a brain
Easton Jones
>Steel isn’t the only metal holding the building up
Michael Perry
what the hell do you know about research? from youtube? do you really think our government would be just fine letting israel take down the world trade center, not only causing 3000 deaths (including the pentagon), but also severe economic damage. There is just no fucking way, the people who work for our government are patriots, they love their country, they are not faceless bots from the matrix.
Sebastian Wright
Wasted trips
Easton Murphy
Imagine being on Sup Forums and still being this ignorant
Colton Wilson
>But, but they can't just let that happen that would be mean .>=(
Cameron Price
you have zero clue what operational secrecy means, there is no way no how no chance an operation of this scope could remain a secret.
Nicholas Jones
>there is no way no how no chance an operation of this scope could remain a secret.
And it didn't, yet here you are still saying it didn't happen.
Levi Ortiz
The most gay if internet conspiracies
Nicholas Watson
wtf i love namefags now
Samuel Kelly
Just the lighting on it looks so CGI now, how could people even believe this
Chase Ortiz
That’s right secrecy is the key
it’s why Afghanistan and Iraq got blamed for it
in 2000 the taliban outlawed the production of opium in Afghanistan,
Afghanistan produces 97% of the worlds heroin
Now remember how Afghanistan was the first country to be blamed for 9/11 America invaded and took control of the Afghanistan opium fields they are still controlling them to this day
Next to be blamed was Iraq they had imaginary WMD’s what Saddam had also done was instead of selling all his oil in US dollars he sold oil for gold instead meaning America couldn’t use oil supply to justify printing more US dollars so they invade then killed Saddam
It was a secret plot by Israel to create excuses to steal land and kill its populations
Ayden Turner
bump
Colton Powell
Was thinking of bumping this too, but what's left to say? What can be done about this all these years later? A new 9/11 commission?
Oliver Ward
mueller, the guy who saw the corruption during 9/11 first hand, is the new commission. screencap this. 9/11 traitors are exposed in coming weeks. midterms become landslide win for true patriots. rosenstein is /ourguy/.
Jacob Anderson
Watch this
youtube.com
Then go check it's claims on TV archives.
archive.org
The planes and some other stuff were CGI. Some of the CGI is quiet bad and blatant like the Brooklyn bridge being edited into some backgrounds.
Isaac King
Maybe but these threads are not pol, not current events, nothing, just sliding shits
Kys
Jackson Smith
absolute nonsense, the us believed iraq had wmd, they were just wrong. not everything is an israeli plot.
Dominic Rodriguez
you don't need a new commission, you guys are such morons, just crowd fund an engineering services company to evaluate the NIST report.
Ian Jones
Wrong. It's the ultimate truth. Hammer it till it's known.
Charles Rogers
This video should be required viewing for anyone who browses Sup Forums
Jacob Nguyen
>this is not pol
>memeflag
i dare you to post without hiding behind a memeflag faggot
Kayden Hall
he is right about the opium though
Tyler Collins
It would have taken fighter jets less than five minutes to reach the Pentagon and they had over an hour.
Hunter Scott
bumping
Ayden Williams
HOLY SHIT THERE ARE NO WINDOWS
how could I have missed this for 17 years
Lucas Davis
I’m right about the oil for being sold gold too look it up Gaddafi did the same
Daniel Hughes
Lithium was another big part of this. They mine a ton of lithium out of afghan, which allows us to have so many mobile devices and hybrid cars.
Levi Brooks
It's bad CGI, that's why it has no windows. Keep in mind too, the sun was shinning on the planes from that side. Zero reason it should be a shadow.
Jacob Allen
Also if Americans invaded a sovereign nation and got it wrong why did the kill Saddam after the trial by your reasoning he was innocent
Ian Young
NO
WINDOWS
Carson Richardson
Correction Saddam wanted to sell his oil in Euros instead of USD
Isaiah Miller
the physics of the plane collision with the building do not make sense. the plane faces no resistance when entering the building. it doesn't bank. no debris comes off. it doesn't shatter. the wings don't bend. the equal and opposite forces are not observed
Hunter Parker
I know it’s almost like aluminium is softer than steel and concrete
Benjamin Foster
They were customized drones for the operation.
Juan Rivera
Jeff Prager, mini nukes, you'll never go back.
Xavier Roberts
observe the pentagon. we get a hole shape without wing imprints in the concrete walls. yet we're supposed to believe the same type of plane could leave wing shaped holes in steel columns...?
Grayson Bennett
what about demitri Khalezov?
Mason Bennett
I always knew things were fishy with 9/11, Sup Forums but I always believed some of it was covered up for our own protection, and that other people wouldn't also have the means to do it again. The main thing that always assured me was that there was no way it could be a huge conspiracy involving hundreds of people, how could so many people keep it secret and not talk about it?
Well, it's not that hard to figure out now with pizzagate. Most of the CIA is filled with blackmailed pedos and criminals. Of course they won't talk. I'm now convinced it was an inside job to get us into Iraq AND, more importantly, lose a shitton of our liberties plain and simple. I still think it's stupid to blame Bush for it. No, this was planned for years by the CIA, it wouldn't surprise me if Bush had no clue. You dumbasses really ruined the movement when it became all about Bush and his reaction in that classroom, and when Michael Moore came along it kinda set it in place as another partisan conspiracy.
Xavier Wood
Owen James
It's pointless posting any 911 shit on here. The place is watched 24/7 by zionist shills, who will then bomb the place with disinfo and tinfoil accusations under random flags.
They know that to hide the truth, all you have to do is bury it under mountains of bullshit. Because the standard way to get at the truth is the sherlock method (once you have eliminated the impossible...). Even if you have the time to dig through all of crapola and get a nugget of reality, they will just bury that under more bullshit ad nauseum.
A better way is to use the co-incidence theory method. Just post something that looks really, really fucking suspicious, but is undeniable. They will try to dismiss it as co-incidence. Then post another "co-incidence". And another, and another...ad nauseum. Eventually, anyone who attempts to cry coincidence will just look like a gullible fool, and can safely be ignored.
I'll start...(pic related)
Asher Diaz
Thermate. With an "A". You can see a tube under the fuselage fire a shot into the building just as it impacts. blows a hole through the building before the plane is even in.
Israeli Thermate mate.
Joseph Adams
gelatin B thing. israeli art students. cardboard maze. planted explosives exactly where the "plane" struck. just a (((coincidence))) tho guys
Austin Diaz
>00:30
Bright flash at nose of plane
>00:55
Bright flash at nose of plane
Check out all the different videos of the planes hitting. Bright flash every time. So it wasn't just "sunlight reflecting of the cockpit windows" or other dumb disinfo bullshit.
It was probably a "co-incidence" though.
Dominic Sullivan
Grayson Gutierrez
>imagine not understanding it was sarcasm
Jaxson Gonzalez
what are these pictures showing? and do you have any proof to what you are saying?
(that these are the people you claim you are doing what you claim you are doing?)
Kayden Hall
I'm only 4 minutes in and what the fuck is this
Jaxon Cox
literally hundreds of taped news reports on this. it's commonly available knowledge. use the fucking internet.
>inb4 no proof
it's 4 am. i gave you everything you need to search. it's so readily available. israeli performance art students. group name: gelatin. project name: b-thing. set up cardboard mazes so people could not see what they were working on. rented an entire floor for i believe 9 months. same floor that gets struck. 5 mins of research buddy
Josiah Price
this shit is real. i am a plane cgi guy. but i try to focus on what truthers can agree on like planted explosives, free fall speed collapse, fuckery with evidence, etc. but no-planes is not shill shit. it triggers the shills desu.
anybody remember the white "mystery plane" flying around nyc at this time? could it have been projecting?
Hunter Robinson
my only concern is... who is simon shack?
Christian Diaz
9/11 never happened, wake up sheeple.
Ian Evans
bump
Angel Johnson
what's his story? wasn't he put in the towers specifically to die that day?
Thomas Sanders
wow, thanks for the link man. Good vid.
Noah Campbell
Here this will help. E-Team and Gelatin B-Thing were "Israeli Art students" who had access to the building a few months before 9/11
9/11 was done by Jews with explosives and shitty CGI.
Nathan Richardson
No thanks, MORON AND TRAITOR
Ryan King
Caleb Martinez
bump watching holy shit
Jose Nelson
Hey there. Do you not find it highly odd that the first victim of 9/11 was literally an elite Israeli Navy SEAL (aka Sayeret Matkal) who is trained in hijacking/airport scenarios and in impersonating Muslim extremists and airport staff (see Operation Thunderbolt).
What are the odds an elite Israeli commando is seated between two Muslim hijackers that day? Instead of trying to paint me as a tinfoil idiot, counter the actual facts I've raised.
Do I think our "government" was okay with Israel doing 9/11? No. And I don't think 99% of "our government" had any foreknowledge, inkling, or post-knowledge of the operation. But I do bet that Dick Cheney, many neocons like Dov Zakheim, an utmost compartmentalized sliver of CIA, they are guilty of looking the other way or worse. Do you deny the PNAC and Clean Break Doctorine authored by the neocons?
The US "government" was more than willing to propagate phony evidence, as was the MSM in the US and Israel, to push us into the Iraq occupation under the bold lie that Saddam had contacts with al Quaida, had WMDs, and had a role in the suspicious af post-9/11 anthrax scares. From which elites profited billions, possibly trillions from the destabilization.
But please, explain why Daniel Lewin being on Flight 11 is just random chance, user. You can't. You won't.
Levi Walker
>also severe economic damage
You mean "severe economic stimulus" surely
Ryder King
more on Lewin pls user
Samuel Gomez
This thread has potential, but ultimately, the answers remain hidden.
Brandon Brooks
FOH with your cgi /x/ theory disinformation.
Parker Jackson
In charge of counter terrorism, with special emphasis on terrorists training and operating within the continental USA.
Sent an agent to the CIA to liaise. Wanted him in the office to feedback what the CIA knew, but they sent him out into the field (standard practice when spooks want to shut someone out of the loop). The spooks knew about the hijackers but refused to share the info with McNeills team. He resigned from the FBI earlier that year citing "high level blocking of his investigations".
This was the guy who would have been crawling all over the hijackers ass as they were learning to fly planes. He knew what he was doing, and was even slated for Richard A. Clarke's job as the National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism. This was no flake or burnout. He was on top of his shit.
Who blocks the top counter-terrorism guy in the FBI? Who has that much power? Why would he resign from such a top position unless his frustration was long term and disabling?
He got a job as head of security at the WTC, and died in the attacks trying to save the people on the top floors.
But this is all speculation and co-incidence, right?
en.wikipedia.org
Jaxon Scott
user it's not disinformation. you can happily disprove it if you like. i'm all for seeing the arguments against it. but it isn't disinformation. if it is, it should be easy to explain away. it deserves a debate. so give us your side.
Cooper Jenkins
great work user. absolutely great. oldpol style genius. we need more of you on this board
Adam Rivera
Jacob Lee
See
Watch these pro-Israeli Lewin vids:
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
I'll post more pasta in a sec. Please save and share. Also, don't include E-Team as Israeli art students. I know their light display is bizarre, but here's a little scene video taken of E-Team chartering a helicopter around the WTC. You can find all of their members identified online, I did this three years ago. Watch this video, save it if you can. I wish more Sup Forumsaks had seen it, so that we can move past E-Team, onto Daniel Lewin who is literally suspect #1 with PLENTY of substantiated evidence.
Asher Rogers
Why is there so little info on Lewin? I bet he's still alive.
John Ward
twitter.com
March For Our Lives is a recruiting operation for Antifa.
Kids were being distributed anti-white, anti-cop propaganda at the event.
The deep state is now trying to swell its Alt-Left paramilitary group ranks with underage kids. SPREAD THIS INFO EVERYWHERE.
>What this means:
THE DEEP STATE IS TRYING TO GET KIDS TO MURDER WHITE PEOPLE AND POLITICAL DISSIDENTS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
_______________________
SES (Senior Executive Service): an army of no-background check required for the hire executives with access to ALL INTELLIGENCE, who nobody knows how much they make (and they are the most well paid federal employees there are), that the POTUS CANNOT FIRE.
This right here, those 10000 parasites are a very important part of the deep state.
Intro and link to info dumps: youtube.com
More on SES: youtube.com
Even more on SES: youtube.com
>GOOD DUCKING NEWS ANONS
DEEP STATE TURNING ON ITS OWN:
youtube.com
Groups of deep statists create group to support Trump.
Easton Edwards
Their computers didn't have enough RAM for rendering the texture
Ryan Hall
Uh huh. Yeah. Okay, uh huh. Right, whatever you say. You know dude, there's such a thing as watching *too much* sci-fi, right?
Tyler Diaz
THE FIRST REPORTED VICTIM OF 9/11 WAS A ZIONIST COMMANDO WHO SERVED AS CAPTAIN IN ISRAEL'S SAYERET MATKAL (THEIR DELTA FORCE).
HE JUST HAPPENED TO BE SEATED B/T TWO HIJACKERS ON AAF11, THE FIRST PLANE TO HIT THE WTC. COINCIDENCE Sup Forums?
His name is/was Daniel Lewin.
Sayeret Matkal specializes in hand to hand combat (inc. knives), hijacking/airport scenarios, paratrooping, and *impersonating Muslim extremists*. In fact, Benjamin Netanyahu is an ex-Sayeret captain who impersonated an airport technician to kill hijackers on a commercial plane. Experts say ther training is the toughest of armed forces worldwide.
It's reported Daniel Lewin was *stabbed to death* w boxcutters *before* Flight 11 crashed into the WTC, yet his seat number 9B was specified by flight attendent Betty Ong as a hijacker's before she complained of trouble breathing (gas agent on plane?).
Flight 11 is the same plane three "Dancing Israelis" were witnessed celebrating and photographing at Doric Towers in NJ, before five were arrested, detained for 71 days by FBI, and failed polygraphs. They worked for Urban Moving Systems in NJ, which was quickly abandoned by Jewish owner Dominik Suter, who fled to Israel w his Jewish wife, after FBI questioning. FBI raided UMS offices. Findings are classified.
Reaearch Daniel Lewin. 9/11 raises lots of questions, that normies ignore. But the Daniel Lewin story is so incredulous their ears perk up. If the first victim of 9/11 was indeed a Jewish military hero who tried to kill hijackers, why is he unknown?
>Daniel Lewin
>Edmund Glazer
>Omer Marmari
>Oded Ellner
>Paul Kurzberg
>Sivan Kurzberg
>Yaron Shmuel
>Dominik Suter
>Dov Zakheim
>Michael Chertoff
Memorize names. Share them. Research them. Make infographics. Specify names about 9/11! Not deadend theories.
Btw, Charles Lewin, Daniel's dad, was a Zionist poet in Israel who hated the US. He refused to visit Daniel in the US...until the week before 9/11.
Camden Clark
2 9/11 threads at the same time!
This is a shill operation to spread lies about 9/11!
Building 7 fell at freefall which is proof of resistanceless collapse only possible with explosives + they found nano thermite in the dust!
Go to architects and engineers for 911 truth for the official proof.
ITS A JEW TRICK TO MIX BULLSHIT WITH REAL PROOF!
Ayden Perez
deepest lore
David Evans
Which points are you refuting user? Are you claiming Daniel Lewin, the first victim of 9/11, was an elite captain in Israel's Sayeret Matkal? This is an irrefutable fact, simply search him online for myriad official sources.
What did I say specifically that you are alleging is inaccurate? Are you denying that five Israelis on expired visas weren't arrested on 9/11 and held for 71 days by FBI and given polygraphs and interrogated, until Israel pressured for their release? This is on record.
No where in my post did I include anything remotely categorized as "science fiction" or /x/.
Bentley Bennett
look at video here nuclear destruction of the towers. you're mostly right
Joseph Young
Pic related.
William Gray
he basically flew the plane into the building.
The training the original hijackers got was insufficient to fly a jumbojet but enough to convince normies they could fly.
Landon Harris
stfu JIDF!
YOU watch THIS
Jordan Bailey
i agree with everything that user is saying other than no planes being disinformation. i believe it's genuine inspection. perhaps it's incorrect. buts it's genuine. you're the faggot hiding behind a memeflag. you're the faggot calling "shill!" "JIDF!". calm down dude.
Blake Robinson
bump
Jonathan Phillips
His sons are on Facebook. I believe his wife, Anne Lewin, relocated to Israel. Have we discussed Lewin on Sup Forums before?
I highly recommend buying these "fictional" reenactment novels written by Lewin's coworker, who states that Lewin irl packed up his office before 9/11. These books were written as a limited hangout to muddy the waters, in case questions about him go mainstream. Which they are, two fucking decades later. I suspect Hollywood or Israelwood will make a film or series about him too, for the same reasons.
abbourne.com
And you can read his authorized biography No Better Time for free on Google Books. His entire family is interviewed. He is described therein by his family in Israel as a "super Zionist," and the themes of needing to impress his Zionist father are almost incriminatingly unsubtle.
Lastly, you'll find the official report on Lewin's 10-min voicemail he left his wife IN HEBREW shortly before 9/11, around page 15 here
911myths.com
Requesting any anons itt not on cough syrup or JIDF coffee to save what's been shared on Lewin. If you have investigated 9/11 for years, or new to this circus, know that Lewin is the biggest lead we'll ever have, and the best chance, due to the improbable official narrative vs evidence, of intriguing normies to examine Israel's role.
Kayden Myers
All of the planning involved and they forgot to paint the airplane?
I’m open to theories but this one is retarded.
Justin Clark
Saved, thanks. Didn't have this pic. Btw, Lewin named his company Akamai, because it means "clever" in Hawaiian. I've seen other anons attempt to decipher Akamai further, as in "AKA m.a.i. (MIA missing in action)" or spelled backwards "I Am AKA" but I don't endorse any of that because it doesn't fully add up. I do suspect that the billion dollars Lewin was temporarily worth in the years before 9/11 was dark money with Israel ties. He lost his fortune shortly before 9/11. Akamai now has offices in Israel, which was Lewin's dream. It's all pretty incredulous, imo.
There's simply no way that Netanyahu, upon learning theoretically that Lewin was aboard Flight 11, that he didn't open an investigation. But of course, Netanyahu likely knew much more.
Christian Thomas
>we can move past E-Team,
really?
>gets permission to take over an entire floor
>is up there for weeks
>takes out a fucking window
>builds platform outside the tower
>hires helicopter
>gets permission to hover it outside the tower for 20 minutes
"don't worry guys...It's so we can take arty tourist photo's"
>uses shitty 50 year old Exakta camera to take said photo's
It's interesting to note that, back when he was a spook, Dick Cheney was in a brainstorming club (along with Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz), who's job was to come up with probable bullshit scenarios to perpetuate the cold war. This included such gems as...
>The fact the Russians appear to have no submarine radar is extremely worrying because it means they not only have submarine radar, but security surrounding it that is so efficient they are able to convince us they have no submarine radar
The Russians in fact had no submarine radar.
The name of this clusterfuck of bullshit artists was "Team B".
See "The Power of Nightmares" by Adam Curtis for further details.
youtube.com
The interesting stuff starts at 25 minutes.
It's the same old tricks by the same old names.
I literally wouldn't trust these fucks to efficiently burn down a fireworks factory in August.
Xavier Perez
are gelatin and e team different?
Evan Cruz
Ignore or sage the 9/11 JIDF threads
Ryder Anderson
How about this fucking one, before it disappears again?
Adam Brooks
I think they were trying to muddy the waters. Which is why we shouldn't dismiss e-team. It's probable the same people were involved.
Security on buildings like the WTC is tight. They are high level targets, and you simply don't get security personnel conversations that go...
>Don't worry about those Israeli squatters on Floor 91, Bob...they're probably just art students goofing around.
Basically, when someone says...nothing to see here...move along...
THAT'S when you should start rubbernecking, and making records.
But bear in mind, they will try to bury the truth under mountains of bullshit, so...