Does the Old Testament matter? Is it fair to just disregard it all, like modern Christians say we should?

Does the Old Testament matter? Is it fair to just disregard it all, like modern Christians say we should?

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the old foreshadows the blessed virgin Mary and jesus christ, it's history, so dont disregard it

It's also the set of laws that Jesus was overturning, it's attached for context

“The New is in the Old concealed; the Old is in the New revealed.”

So absolutely everything about it is void, or just the laws? Why is that the idea of "the old testament is void" is something I've only heard about recently from Christians?

>Is it fair to just disregard
Disregard it like atheists do. It's not relevant to our people

then what is relevant

Morality and ethics. We don't care about a "cure" for leprosy that doesn't work or the proper procedure for selling your daughters into slavery like the bible says. We need our daughters learning valuable skills and self-sustaining and we have better leprosy meds. Religion is immoral.

New covenant
The old testament is just a book of Jewish history

OT came from the Tenakh which was a contemporary retelling of the old legends around 300BCE. The whole thing is allegorical and not to be taken literally, but there are lessons about morals that fit that era and definitely not to be taken religiously, pun intended.

The OT shouldn't be disregarded. There's a lot of scripture that completes a proper understanding of Revelation. There is also A LOT of referencing done by Jesus from the OT scriptures, and reading them leads to a deeper understanding of what He said.
>not to mention all the OT scripture prophesying Jesus down to a T

for more detail on the new covenant, the gospels - the books of matthew, mark, luke and john - are the story of jesus told by four different authors. the rest of the new testament is letters, advice and history from the very earliest church fathers.

but why do modern christians say only the new testament matters and the old one is void specifically when they want to justify degeneracy

>The old testament is just a book of Jewish history
Christians recently discovered that they have to preserve the creation myth or they don't have "original sin" guilt to fill the collection plates on Sabbath/Sunday. The whole grift sounds like a money-grubbers meal-ticket.

Thank you Chuck Missler!

>disregard the OT
>modern Christians

Luther was a mistake.

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The Jewish Laws are void (note: not the Moral Law. You can wear mixed fabric clothing and eat pork; you can't steal and you can't rape your sister-in-law). Those Christians you refer to are misguided. If they're talking about degeneracy and how it is supposedly 'allowed', then how come all the writers in the NT (and JESUS) preached so heavily against it? Faith without works is dead.

It was actually St Augustine who first said that, lel

i have had real life and internet discussions about this. there is a near unanimous agreement that morality is relative because the OT is now void
but christians did not say these thing say 10 years ago so something has changed recently

Absolutely not. The fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies is what authenticated Christ beyond eye-witness account and personal experiences. Further, the OT teaches us A LOT about God's character and why we even need salvation. As I tell a lot of people, the OT is proof that no matter how direct God is with his presence and intentions we will still fail and sin against him.

tl;dr the OT is really important and Christians who go their whole lives without reading it only have a half-understanding of the bible

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Marcion of Sinope is that you?

>the books of matthew, mark, luke and john - are the story of jesus told by four different authors.
That's not true. There was only one author of the synoptic texts - Mark. The other books borrowed from Mark and an other unknown source. Luke was most likely written by Paul or one of Paul's scribes.

Old Testament moral law still stands. Anyone who says otherwise is a half-Bible heretic.

“For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.“
Matthew 5:18

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Matthew 5:17

“For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.“
Romans 15:4

Didn't know that. Thank you!

>You can wear mixed fabric clothing and eat pork; you can't steal and you can't rape your sister-in-law)
Why the cherry picking? Was it a la carte for the Israelites, too?

Except that Jesus said Himself that he came to complete the Covenant, which he did the moment he died on a cross for our sins.
The Old Laws are void. The teachings given on the Mound are what matters.
The Old Testament does give context, and shed some light on the prophetic coming of the Messiah, but it doesn't do much for Christians apart from that.
We be New Law naow.

All ceremonial stuff was fulfilled by Jesus. Only moral law matters now.

>he thinks the Bible is a legit book
wow

If God exists, morality is objective and binding. Simple as that.
Christians aren't Christianity. Just because Christians say X, Y, and Z, that does not mean it is necessarily what Christianity preaches.

If you finish building a chair, do you cut off the legs after you're done?

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The old covenant is irrelevant, yes, as talked about extensively in Galatians, Ephesians, and Romans. All the OT laws were given to the Jews and the Jews alone to set then apart as part of the old covenant. If you are a gentile, you can never be party to that--and why would you want to be? The old covenant cannot save, it is the written law that brings death; it was made to kill anyone who tried to follow it on their own merit rather than turn to God in the face of its impossibility.

However, the new covenant is the law of the Spirit which brings life. It supercedes and replaces the written law of death, and is what the written law is meant to drive you to--Christ. Jesus gave two commands, specifically stayed as such, in the new covenant: to love the Lord your God with all you are, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Even so, the new covenant saves by Grace through Faith not by works or anything of oneself beyond faith in Christ.

So what is the OT for? 1) Showing we can't be good apart from grace through Christ, 2) being a history book of how we got from there to here to understand the character and plan of God (in so far as our limited abilities can grasp), 3) as a guide to help us make good or at least informed choices in this life unrelated to salvation or eternity.

It is important to bread and understand the OT, and thank God with all you are that Christ came so you could be set free and given the new covenant.

>Old Testament moral law still stands.
That's frightening.

Those Christians are merely making up excuses to not read the OT, because it's long, dry, and doesn't make a lot of sense compared to our modern times. The OT is not void or useless, even Christ himself said he was a "fulfillment" of the law. The OT is roughly 75-80% of the bible. Refusing to read that much of your holy text is just plain retarded. Especially if you're genuinely invested. I've met Catholics and Protestants who have gone 30+ as a Christian and never read the OT. It can be done in a year.

Spoken like a good Goy.

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"And then the snake said unto eve"
That's should tell you everything you need to know about the old testament

Except it's not a chair we've built ' we signed a contract with God. The Old Contract expired, and a new one was signed by your soul the moment you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and the Holy Trinity as your God.

Happy to help, my friend!

Neopaganism obviously. Varg said so. Christianity is sooooo last 2000 years of European tradition, time to adopt something made up by fart huffing retards who thjoight neitzche was smart

The entire OT is an explanation of why only Christ can save us. Why even if God were with us every day and every night we would still sin. The OT also reveals a lot about who God is and his love for his creation. Don't be a fool by saying it doesn't do much for modern Christians. You just don't know how important it is.

Old testament is just the jew base. With out it dosent matter. You are still worshiping egyptin deities.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Matthew 5:17

Anything else?

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It only "stands" so far as it is encapsulated in Christ's two commands: loving God with all your mind, body, heart, and soul; and loving your neighbor as yourself.

Those two complete all "moral" anythings. Anything beyond those two is irrelevant indeed.

The rampant increase in modern paganism is so frustrating. It's disgusting we live in a culture where for most people religion is a fashion choice and not truth.

Nobody has explained this to you, and people who haven't studied scripture will say "If you follow the Old Testament you're just a kike", which is just not true.

The Old Testament was never meant to be ignored, or to go without study or attention. The Old Testament was fulfilled by Jesus Christ through an Old Testament law known as the Law of Redemption. What wasn't understood by Satan is that this law applied to life given and sacrificed willingly. I can explain more if you have questions.

>Christians aren't Christianity. Just because Christians say X, Y, and Z, that does not mean it is necessarily what Christianity preaches
yes but Christianity is animated by it's followers. if christians make excuses to be degenerate then they speak for that religion regardless of the overarching truth
so you agree that modern christians can be as degenerate as they want without punishment?
only the new testament applying is what LGBT whatever and their allies use to normalize that behavior, i've had this conversation a number of times

>Only moral law matters now.
Is it moral to sell you daughters into slavery? Moral to stone women to death for adultery? Moral to rip open the bellies of pregnant women and dash their infants against the rocks?

No, the holy books were written by primitive people living in a savage time. They have no moral relevance with how we live today.

And yet the written law was nailed to the cross with Christ. Oops, for your limited view!

The old covenant still is in effect for Jews who do not choose the new covenant under Christ, and they are doomed by it. If you come to Christ, the old law is nailed to the cross and you are under the new law.

That's not moral law. That's civil law.

Jesus was a JEW

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It's only in the bible as basically a history lesson. It's why I love when libbies bring up the beard thing from deuteronomy.

I agree that Christians are supposed to be representative of Christianity, but that doesn't mean that they're always correct when talking about the religion.

Are you a gnostic?

Just because the old covenant doesn't apply to Christians doesn't mean you should completely ignore almost 80% of your bible. That's what this is about.

Yep. I'd in ironically rather have shia Muslims than pagans and atheists. At least Muslims have a coherent belief about something

Now that Christianity has been reduced to a select few cherrypicked Jesus quotes on bumperstickers, with morals equally cherrypicked it certainly doesn't look like anything more than a fashion choice for most people.

Note the "fulfill".
When a contract is fulfilled you don't have to adhere to its old code anymore.
He didn't "abolish" the Contract either. He completed it. He didn't rip the Laws in half. The Laws would disappear by themselves as the New Contract was revealed.
>The entire OT is an explanation of why only Christ can save us. Why even if God were with us every day and every night we would still sin. The OT also reveals a lot about who God is and his love for his creation.
All of those we have in the NT also.
As I said, the OT shed some light on the coming of Christ, and by that, also on God Himself, but not much else.

I am getting answers in every direction in this thread its like bullets going in every direction bombs blasting everywhere. it's a fucking war in here
with all due respect I have no idea what to believe anymore, partially because of all the conflicting answers but also because it greatly discourages me that christianity is a magnet for degenerates who say the OT is void so they can not feel bad about their degeneracy

Without punishment? If you murder, you would be tracked down by the cops, trotted out to be shamed and hounded and your life gutted by the public, and throw away into a box like a caged animal? You have a weird definition of "without punishment". You also lose the opportunity to do good works that God has prepared for you and the rewards there in.

What is it that Paul says? You can be saved by grace and then do nothing good with your life, but you will enter heaven like one escaping flames with just the clothes on your back. But you do still enter heaven--but no heavenly rewards await beyond that. Whoops.

Remember, all that matters are to love God with all you are and love your neighbor as yourself. Does LGBT affect your love for your neighbor? No? Then nothing wrong with it, if you have the faith for it. But if you make someone's weaker faith stumble because you flaunt it, then you have harmed your neighbor.

See And last I checked the catechism still says to follow the 10 commandments and that homosexuality is a sin.

That doesn't mean what you think it means.

Jesus fulfilling them means that they're no longer compulsory for Christians to follow; he made them come to complete fruition and thus they finished.

I don't know. I think I'd rather be around people who's religious ideas are flaccid than violent.

I agree. I don't think Christians take their own religion seriously enough. That's why we have all of these morons in this thread saying you don't even need to read the OT.

it matters about as much as the harry potter books

Which I agree with 100%. But it isn't 80% of the Bible, if you want to be exact ;).

Why did the OT talk against eating pork? Because pork had to be cooked hotter than any other meat to avoid some very very debilitating parasites that endanger a community. With our modern knowledge, that truth remains, but knowing it we can deal with it and solve the issue so it is no longer a problem. The guide is useful and important as a foundation of knowledge to use--to understand cause and effect. Else you have to make all those mistakes to learn by experience, and that may not be fun at all. Such is the way for all handed down knowledge.

Watch Jordan Peterson lectures on the Bible and decide for yourself

> Does LGBT affect your love for your neighbor? No? Then nothing wrong with it, if you have the faith for it
right, so you just admitted to me that christians use the old testament being "void" as an excuse to justify degeneracy.
thanks, you annoying faggot.
>Without punishment?
Yes, without punishment. Degenerates fear punishment from God and there has been a major push in the west to make Christianity friendly to all sorts of degenerate folk.

The old testament matters because it shows you how the Jewish god operates. He is a genocidal war god who accepts human sacrifice.

The god of Yeshua, Jesus, is a different god entirely. Jesus was a gnostic and a hermeticist - with knowledge and advancement the Jewish god always sought to stamp out.

Lol that's what you get for coming to Sup Forums for religious advice. Most of the people here have the right idea, the old testament is mainly for context for the new testament. Levitical law is no longer a requirement. Jesus came to fulfill the contract like said. Its not too complicated you should read around about it. Stick to catholic stuff stay away from those dirty protty fags.

That is true what you say about contracts. People overlook that, but it is just their lack of business knowledge is all.

I feel like the reverse makes more sense: "The Old is the New concealed, the New is the Old revealed."

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Without the Old Testament the New Testament does not make sense.

Thats why I specified shia Muslims theyre much more moderate than their sunni brothers

>All of those we have in the NT also.
As I said, the OT shed some light on the coming of Christ, and by that, also on God Himself, but not much else.

No we don't. We have references to the OT, but we don't have the stories themselves. Do you honestly think the OT is not really worth reading because of the NT? What about Genesis, Exodus, the forming of Israel as a nation, captivity, and all the prophets? Have you even read ALL of the OT?

>If God exists, morality is objective and binding. Simple as that.
Secular morals are written by men.
Religious morals are written by men.
The only difference is that the thousands of different religions all claims that their thousands of different gods are the inspirations for their multitudes of "objective" morality systems

It is precisely because we can't know which godly moral system is objective, and because there's never been any proof of the existence of any of these thousands of gods that their claims fail. If theists cant even prove their gods exist, then atheists have nothing to disprove.

All morality is written by men and subjective. . On that we agree. It is also relative to the time, place and culture that wrote their morals.

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Where does it say that? Please tell me it's true

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Dude, if you want to follow the OT (and die) because of whatever definition you have built in your head for "degeneracy" (like wearing mixed thread clothes or eating shellfish by OT standards), then go to your nearest synagog and be like the Jews. You'll have to be ultra-orthadox, otherwise you won't be following the OT

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can you stop tipping your fedora here this isnt the time or place for it
go back to your atheist forum and circlejerk about how smart you are with the rest of the people that have thousands of posts and spend all their time online being neckbeards

If you honestly think the entire OT is about not eating pork and general life-advice to an ancient people you need to read it again. That's like saying the NT is about Jesus being able to feed a bunch of people with some bread and fish. There is so much more.

The Old Testament is binding people to ancient laws like you mustn't eat pork and you can't flick a light switch on a saturday. And the only reason for those rules is the Levites said so.

The New Testament is about freeing your spirit and getting a life.

The choice which one to go with is yours.

>Christ's two commands: loving God with all your mind, body, heart, and soul;
A man who is his own master does not need imaginary masters.

>and loving your neighbor as yourself.
The Golden Rule was stolen from other religions.

any who reject any part of the Word are hardly Christians

That's not what I meant by degeneracy, FAGGOT.
LGBT stuff and promiscuity is a good start. Which is mainly what degenerates I'm talking about.
Followed by all sorts of sodomites, then murders, robbers, rapists etc.

I've also stated earlier that they give context.
The OT is necessary to understanding the plight (and also the downfall) of the Hebraic tradition before the coming of Christ.
The OT is necessary to understand that the exemplar status of the Jewry was revoked and given to the many due to their own wicked doings.

So you just hate LGBT and want an excuse for your hate? Then you fail to love your neighbor and are not following Christ. That, what you are doing, is degeneracy. You are being the sinner against Christ by wanting to hate others and justify that hate.

Wrong.

>The Golden Rule was stolen from other religions.
You don't "steal" wisdom. You pass it on.

>That's not moral law. That's civil law.
The opposite it true. The bible prescribes the means and circumstances for all these things. Criminal and civil law prohibits all of it.

gno

Did I say that? Nope. I have said all along the OT is important, but people try to make it important for the wrong reasons. Fixing those bad reasons does not make it "not important". Check yourself before you go off the deepend by creating a false premise of what I am saying beyond what I am actually saying. I don't have room and time to list every example there could ever be, only those that may help illustrate the most basic of points for those watching who are not in the know.

so like I said youre just one of those modern christians I talked about earlier
your opinion is just your own I have no reason to take your word over others. degeneracy should not be justified using God that's wrong on every level

It also contains an account as to how the world was made. You've come a long way from simply saying it sheds some light on Jesus' coming and some other things. Now you even use the word "necessary". Do you need to read the OT in order to make Jesus Christ your lord and savior? No. However, if he is the Lord of your life, you should read the other books he wrote for you.

So you want to hate people who do you no harm. That is no different than hating people who like to play Scrabble in their home. It is also evil of you. Repent, before your hate drives you to commit greater harm to yourself and others. For as I said, if you do evil you still have to face the consequences in the here and now.

>yeah Im 22 and watch anime so what?

this is not about me you stupid bastard. degeneracy has been condemned by any civilization and culture that has mattered since time immemorial.
many christians agree that degeneracy is unacceptable, it's only been in the past 10 years that hipster faggots like you took over the narrative.
Fucking faggot. What a faggot.

Really? Christ said His command was to love your neighbor as yourself. Are you doing that, or are you ignoring Christ in your desire to hate those who do you no harm?

Then why would you give one of the most arbitrary asinine examples? If people "those watching who are not in the know" read your post and assume the OT is just advice from God to man to avoid disease in the ancient world of course they're not gonna read it. It is so much more than that. You cannot reduce it to a book for ancient people. I think we're on the same page here, but it also sounds like you don't know a lot about the OT.

Your definition of civil law doesn't change the bible. You just don't understand the law, but you think you do.

you ignore everything else and focus on this "love" stuff because it gives you an escape.
There is even debate among your fellow hipster fags about certain NT verses that may condemn homosexuality as well.

This

What does the "love stuff" mean to you, user?