Socialism versus Capitalism GO
Socialism versus Capitalism GO
Jace Flores
Chase Jones
Communism is slavery.
Xavier Torres
Unrelated topic.
Adam Perry
Retard americans never lived through communism it is shit. No food no money no nothing, everybody is miserable at least with capitalism there is a chance and if you move your lazy fat american grease you can make it . Im originally from Poland before abolition of fucking communism
Jeremiah Morris
Historical Materialism is false, material and economic conditions are not the driving forces of history. The Marxist attempt to turn their economic theory into a science is laughable. As a practical doctrine, Marxism falls on every level. It has led to the death of millions around the world through mismanagement and starvation, as well as outright murder. It does not work as an economic model, for the simple reason that central planning of an economy is ineffecient due to the utter inability of central planners to anticipate and react to the wants and needs of the population in real time. Other concerns, often given as the reason Marxism fails, such as 'greed' or lack of incentives, pale utterly in comparison to this simple truth. It takes more time and more information for a man in Moscow to figure out what Vlad the Farmer needs then it does for Vlad himself.
Julian Rodriguez
>stateless, classless society where the means of production are democratically controlled by the people who work them
Matthew Cook
Solve the economic calculation problem
GO
Liam Wood
They are begging for communism can’t you see? Let them learn the hard way
Zachary Cooper
Greed from politicians is where Communism goes wrong.
And I'm talking about Socialism not Communism.
Julian Flores
The economic calculation problem justifies markets, not capitalism. You can also use the economic calculation problem against large corporations.
t. mutualist.
Thomas Ward
Joshua Miller
Communism which gives more power to people and not small group of the shittiest psychopaths in the country. I would need to see that.
Replace fapfiction of your senile, communist-loving professors with some real history books.
William Turner
Of course unregulated Capitalism will always collapse at some point.
Jose Gutierrez
Marxist-Socialism and Capitalism are different sides of the same Semitic, degenerate, materialist coin. There is nothing to be gained by arguing over which Jew is better.
Joseph Rogers
The problems with this model are twofold. The first is the model itself. A true communist society would be a vast network of independent communes where capital is controlled by those who work the capital, where the state is nonexistent, and the only punishment is banishment. The problems with this system are obvious, its vulnerable to any State that forms, it suffers from the same problem of central planning being inefficient as communism applies to a larger scale does, it reflects a 19th century view of economics where 'capital' is tied intrinsically to manufacturing [what the hell is the means of production to a software firm?], and so on and so on. The second problem with True Communism, and the reason that it has never been tried outside the walls of a monastery and certain utopian projects is because the Marxist doctrine believes to propagate communism, the former social order must be completely destroyed first. Whether they are correct or not in this assumption, the Marxist doctrine demands a Vanguard be established to oversee the development of socialism into communism. Though as can be seen, Communism never arrives. This is convenient for the Marxist, as it allows him to deny the atrocities and failures of his doctrine by claiming the 'true' form of his doctrine has never been tried. What he neglects to tell is that the reason it has never been tried is because the idea of trying to create a stateless society through the intermediate stage of a totalitarian state is insane.
Jaxon Jones
What happens to old people in communism?
Wyatt Brooks
>that chart
>your subsequent posts
Want to know how I know you're a fucking idiot?
Sebastian Howard
This is actually a really good info-graphic.
Socialists need to understand that the opposite of their ideology is slavery, not capitalism.
And of course, the nuanced option between the 2 extremes (in this case, capitalism) is, once again, the best option.
Colton Green
It justifies private ownership of the means of production (private property) in a system of free markets. It is the only system we have found that adequately addresses the problem of humans not being a bunch of drones. Community or central ownership of the means of production, even in a system of free trade, will eventually break down because of the economic calculation problem. People's individual needs and wants won't be addressed, and they'll rightfully realize that the only way to fix that is by allowing private ownership of the means of production.
Asher Morales
They die of old age or cancer or whatever is defined as natural causes.
Henry Ward
Shoot.
Sebastian Barnes
Communism is dumb because it doesn't address incentive but Communism has only looked like slavery in history due to Zionists at the top ruining shit, as they usually do.
Jaxon Peterson
Meant to say "communists", not "socialists"
Colton Reyes
Communism failing has little to do with incentive and everything to do with economic calculations. The actual basic feature of communism, central planning of the economy, is the problem. Its inefficient and tends to create surpluses of certain goods [that then go to waste] and shortages of other goods. The problem is that the economy changes so quickly that no Central Planner, no matter how intelligent, could possibly predict in advance exactly how many units of each product will be needed.
The capitalist society deals with this problem through the concepts of price, supply, demand,and the competition between firms. The communist society deals with it by becoming a capitalist society.
Jaxon Smith
>the many
*blocks your path*
Zachary Hill
>linear model of history
"No!"
Asher Cox
But then why are Americans known as the most wasteful people on earth?
Carter Diaz
It doesn't exist.
Leo Peterson
The fun part starts after you realise it didn't work like that.
Dylan Price
Yes.
Dominic Gray
So when Marx says socialism is a means to an end and that end is Communism. He's just kidding right?
Jason Jackson
Not! XD
Michael Cox
expect this "theory" is utter bullshit, communism has totally collpased after the death of the soviet union and
Alexander Perez
What do you think?
Aaron Green
Because the inefficiency of capitalism is different from the inefficiency of communism. Capitalism tends to produce so many goods that large quantities of them go to waste. It is affluence to the point of carelessness. Communism's inefficiency is simple poor economic calculations.
In America you see large piles of perfectly serviceable goods thrown into the trash because it wasn't sold. But in Communism you see not only the occasional overproduction, but quite frequently not ENOUGH goods produced. This is in addition to the fact that under Communism there is no profit incentive to innovate, so the production process is almost never refined. In the Soviet Union, technological progress was good on things the State could directly fund and research, such as space exploration, but very poor on the improvement of consumer goods. The Capitalist fixes what isn't broken.
Anthony Williams
capitalism produces anime communism does not.
Daniel Lee
Evan Evans
>slaving empires
>feudal kingdoms
>capitalist authority
>socialist republics
And you have two options here
>A: USSR - collapse and become a capitalist bitch
>B: China - go full fash and destroy your capitalist enemies
Camden Gonzalez
I whip out my Trotsky face mask and give old Joe a cardiac arrest.
Caleb Carter
Well, it sure didn't help that the US told Saudi Arabia to lower their oil prices so the Soviet Union couldn't make a profit selling their oil which put them in a steady decline of losing money.
Connor Brooks
>Implying hinduism is "slaving empires"
Brandon Miller
>100 years of attempting true communism
>Never resulted in true communism.
/thread
Jeremiah Ross
>the failed strong man is an example of communism not being totalitarian
Ethan Rodriguez
>everybody's chill
>world communism is the endgame even though it never happened once
Nicholas Perry
>everybody's chill
hilarious cognitive dissonance you have thinking that communism comes with light handed governance
Noah Cox
Dylan Phillips
What guarantee do you have that communism won't just lead to other races like niggers and Chinks dominating whites via sheer biomass?
By surrendering our power and dominance, we put ourselves at a major disadvantage.
Also, the niggers in South Africa have been dominated by the ANC and EFF for over 20 years, and they still act ethnocentric and anti-white.
You literally can't force people to stop acting along racial lines on a large scale.
Jaxson Diaz
just because that's how ONE thing in history went doesn't mean that's how it will always happen.
Also check your facts.
Wyatt Martin
>communism is global
>nuking of USA didn't happen
Josiah Martinez
rACe DOsn'T eXisT
Elijah Flores
It's a meme. He was empirically proven wrong with the development of the USSR over the decades.
>Community or central ownership of the means of production, even in a system of free trade, will eventually break down because of the economic calculation problem.
Except that this never happened. The CIA report from 1988 about the Soviet Union's financial situation claimed that there was economic stability in the nation. It's not muh gommie propaganda to say that the USSR's collapse had nothing to do with planned economies.
> People's individual needs and wants won't be addressed, and they'll rightfully realize that the only way to fix that is by allowing private ownership of the means of production.
These things never happened.
Charles Roberts
I heard china is a pretty fun place to live.
Also the US arrested their Communist enemies.
Luis Gomez
China is the fastest-growing economy. Your country is fueled by memes. Give it 10-20 years and you will be learning Chinese as a second language to talk to your employers.
Michael Foster
It does though; just if you want to get autistic about definitions, then race can be defined by the similarity of phenotype clusters compared to other ones.
Even if it hypothetically "didn't exist' that doesn't mean that niggers will magically stop being racist, and obey your egalitarian xenophile policies just because a few cuck "intellectuals" told them it was the moral thing to do.
Liam Collins
Soviet oil has nothing to do with the main problems of the USSR. Look at their super markets, at their cars, their consumer goods. Little to no innovation, breadlines, starvation. And this isn't the first failure of the Marxist doctrine, the 20th century abounds with examples of failed Marxist states.
The problem is so simple any fool should be able to understand it. Suppose you have a village with two hundred people. Under normal conditions, these villagers handle their own affairs, make trades, and go about their lives. One day the village elder decides there will be no more trading, all goods will be delivered to him and he will give out what he thinks everyone needs. The problem is obvious. The Elder doesn't know as much about the wants and needs of the village as the village itself does, and it takes TIME to distribute these things.
Central Planning, even at the local level, even at the level of the ideal communist Commune, is inefficient and slow as hell. The other problems of innovation and incentive don't compare to this fundamental concern. The man in Moscow doesn't know what the man in the street knows about the needs of the man in the street.
Evan Clark
Both are trash. End.
Parker Torres
The premise of that image is that history is forever marching towards "progress" and assumes that there is only one way through materialistic value despite many civilizations not basin their worth on material value. Any rudimentary study of the subject shows that it is cyclical in the cycles of civilization and there are many was that a civilization can organize itself. It is only recently that we see this materialistic focus that has been disastrous when applied, the only reason capitalism hasn't completely shit the bed is because it is far more flexible in it's application compared to Marx's theories.
Your post here then tries to distance itself from this simplistic view on history that is the central tenet of Marxism, while saying there are fact checks needed. This indicates you're a moron that only sees things in black and white on a surface level, and just as materialistic as the capitalists you are against.
Owen Carter
Blake Sanchez
Good, I'm glad you agree with me.
Luis Thomas
Charles Cox
Yeah, if you like smog and gutter oil and dog abuse.
Blake Wright
good one, saved
Nicholas Lopez
>Marxist
>States
Also you're completely wrong about USSR innovations. First man in space comes into mind.
>continuum fallacy
>lewontin's fallacy
Stopped reading there.
Aiden Baker
Michael Mitchell
Did you even read what I wrote? The big word is MONEY, they were running out of MONEY. If the Soviet Rouble was the world currency instead of the US Dollar, we would have been the ones to collapse.
Anthony Ortiz
We didn’t live through it because we fought it off. It seems we let up too early.
Logan Rogers
Greed is where everything goes wrong. (GLOBAL DEPRESSION INCOMING!)
Lucas Price
>put capitalist government into a mass grave
>establish socialist government
>give it absolute power
Easy.
>inb4 implications/assertions fascism isn't capitalism
Carson Jones
Still not understanding what I just said?
>humans haven't been separated long enough to evolve differently
Except they have. It's evident in peoples' IQ levels, which even adjusted for different cultures and income levels, still turn out roughly the same. (see pic)
>we didn't have significantly different selection pressures
LOL, so you're telling me that Alpine Europe is the same environment as a sub-Saharan jungle?
Niggers literally have more sickle-cell anemia due to evolving in an environment where malaria was everywhere. Whites have higher IQs and lower time preference because they had to have patience/intelligence to store food for winter, and the ones that didn't starved to death.
Commies obsess over race not existing, even though it's apparent to everyone, because they require everything to be the cause of "class theory" like their 1800s kike bible demands.
Ryan Ramirez
Can we please go back to the "slaving empires" or atleast "feudal kingdoms" please. That sounds way better.
Gavin Brooks
None of this has anything to do with the claims of modern racialism. The claim of modern Racialism is simply that there exist generalization genetic differences between human populations. This is very nearly self-evident, as individuals differ genetically, and populations differ genetically due to certain genes being more prevalent in one population then in another population. Everything past this fundamental truth isn't a discussion on the truthfulness of Racialism, but a question of taxonomy. Which classification system is the more useful? Should we say there are four fours or forty? Such methods of classification are of course 'social constructs', like all methods of classification, but they describe an underlying reality.
The common argument that there is more genetic difference within a population then outside it has no bearing on this question, which is simply whether there are genetic differences between populations. Humans share 98% of their DNA with chimps and 50% with bananas, of course there is going to be more in common then differences in absolute bulk terms. The people who try and argue against racialism always do so through these kinds of disingenuous means, trying to claim we believe in geneticially pure races [we do not], or trying to obscure the differences between populations. Its inevitable that the truth will come out.
Wyatt Bennett
Checked
Dylan Lewis
And the Soviet Union still would have suffered from having the same shitty cars, radios, and lack of food.
Please read my posts
Jose Sullivan
That's pretty dark. I was thinking people enjoying their life in the later years not death.
Luis Moore
Not much different then here, take a look a Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York (city).
Jace Mitchell
radical centrist here
capitalism, if the market is too free, will create awful working conditions and payment for the normal worker, eventually resulting in a bloody communist revolution
communism and socialism, if governmental control of the economy is too strong, create authoritarian shitholes which eventually end in a bloody revolution into capitalism
anarchist/stateless communism will never even form since the power vacuum after a revolutution will be exploited through violence, see lenin or mao, ancap would go the same way
a middle between the two, with a free market & taxes and social programs that dont go too far is probably the most peaceful approach we can think off
Gabriel Scott
Paul Cockshott proved that the economic calculation problem is not real:
macs.hw.ac.uk
questioned Murphy’s requirement that planning requires pre-knowledge
of all possible prices,
•
argued that the domain of prices to which planning is applied is in prin-
ciple finite rather than infinite and that thus Cantor’s arguments are
inapplicable, or at worst prices are countable, and Cantor’s arguments
are applicable but irrelevant because there is no concievable require-
ment that this domain be closed under diagonalisation,
•
argued that planning over finite prices is tractable,
•
shown that diagonalisation is not applicable to prices or commodities,
and
•
discussed how infinite structures of predominantly zero values may be
given finite representations.
In conclusion we have shown that Murphy’s arguments are ill founded.
The computational feasibility of economic planning at a detailed level is an
issue that must be investigated in its own right, and cannot be settled by appeal
to Cantor. We have presented specific arguments that suggest that detailed
planning is indeed feasible.
Hunter Hall
>playing innocent
>trivially true things require an -ism
Kayden Turner
I thought you meant in their end.
Evan Sanders
You can have capitalism without fascism.
Many capitalists are rootless globalists who only care about profit and cost efficiency, and don't inherently value their host nation, race, or the local customs. Many "capitalist" organizations and corporations openly shill against nationalism and ethnocentrism. See: Facebook, Twitter, etc.
At least try to be intellectually honest.
Joshua Gutierrez
>Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York (city).
Controlled by left-leaners and globalists, and filled with shitskins.
Nolan Cooper
>Removing one government and replacing it with one that has absolute power totally wont become corrupt
t. gommunist intellectualism
Logan Miller
Define "shitty cars, and radios"
Jason Turner
Nazis and fascists always try to be special snowflakes and insisting they aren't actively protecting capitalism.
Logan Gomez
>A couple of Kulaks work harder/more efficient to get better yield and be better off than everyone else
>Kill them and give serednyaks their place/property in redistribution to restore equality
>some serednyaks work harder/figure out how to be more efficient to get better yield and be better off than everyone else. Now as better off like the Kulaks before them
>label them as kulaks, kill them and be sure to reduce the amount redistributed so they can't build up wealth and equality will remain
>Competent farmers keep coming out of the fold to be better than others leading to inequality to the point having an acre or two or accidentally breed an extra cow more than your neighbor is grounds to be labeled as a kulak and get gulaged/murdered
Seriously, how do so many socialist understand darwinism but not social darwinism? Pareto Distribution is just a consistent in factors as the normal distribution.
Evan Carter
>all people who believe in private ownership of capital have the same inherent values when it comes to human relations and nation states
Jeremiah Jones
How about the incentive of making food to have food or making roads to have roads. How about having scientists research because of their pursuit of knowledge. How about building houses when people need houses.
Asher Hall
Its hardly trivial, and its the truth, a truth that is denied by modern society. If the races are not identical, if human populations differ, on average, from each other then that is important.
Everything from susceptibility to certain diseases to inclinations towards violence to intelligence, to skeletal structure differs between the races. The problem with Egalitarianism and Equality is that it simply is not true. And the fact that human beings have more genetic differences within a race doesn't change that fact.
Consider intelligence. The IQ spectrum within a race [Caucasians] goes from 70-150 [with some people even beyond that scale]. The average IQ of Caucasians is 100 and the average IQ of blacks is 85. This means the smartest white is 80+ IQ points smarter then the dumbest white. Yet the average racial difference of 15 pts is not negated by this fact. The fact that the tallest man and the shortest man have more difference between them then the average difference between men and women doesn't negate the average difference.
This is the concept that is being willfully ignored. If generalization differences exist, it doesn't matter if there is more variation within a race then outside it.
Jaxon Peterson
>all people who believe in private ownership believe the workers aren't entitled to all the profits of their labour
>implying any of their other beliefs matter or warrant not getting shot
Wyatt Morris
>being a dumb Lysenkoist
>thinking niggers won't just abuse an egalitarian/leftist white populace to their own advantage, and install Black nationalism when they get the opportunity
That's literally what happened in Zimbabwe.
Michael Butler
>the retardation in this thread
Jose Turner
>if the market is too free
What in the fuck are you even talking about? Free and fair competition is literally the ultimate tool for working out the economic problems, improve products/services, and create industry.
Seriously name a single problem that comes with a fair and free market.
Landon Moore
>Slaving empires
>God-Emperors claim to own all of society and its people as their creation and property under threats of death
Commies are delusional enought to believe these ever existed in the manner they put them, and that they are exclusive to a particular time period
Read a history book you niggers
Isaiah Powell
>Be Steve the Laborer
>Work for years, get money
>Buy land, pay others to work it
>Workers think that because they worked the product its THEIR product now
>steal your shit
Marxists are the niggers of economics.
Henry Russell
What is Strasserism and Nazbol, then?
Do you understand that beliefs about nations/race/culture exist independently from economic views?
Bentley Cook
>petite-bourgie gets btfo
>implying anything wrong here
Luis Price
>What is Strasserism and Nazbol, then?
dumb memes
Engaged in by right-wingers who don't want to be pieces of shit anymore, but can't quite make it, so they clutch the "nationalism" pearls.
Zachary Sanders
Anthony Gutierrez
>Following an ideology for workers, made up by people known for usury.
>2018
Isaac Jones
>you see if you gib the gubmint absolute power like in the USSR and China, you've achieved communism even though this violates the tenants of communism and those places weren't real communism anyway