Can Heroic Spirits beat the True Number 1?

Can Heroic Spirits beat the True Number 1?

No

Accelerator can beat number 2 and the king of jobbers at the same time.

What are his powers?

Creating dark matter and using it to create any object imaginable.

EA GG.

Yes. Just off of the top of my head, Cu Chullain, Scathach, and Gilgamesh should all definitely be able to.

In the former two cases, they can use Gae Bolg to retroactively kill him through causality reversal. In the latter case, Enuma Elish would destroy his Personal Reality and thereby destroy his powers.

Full-power Artoria with all of her Noble Phantasms would likely also be able to win, if only through attrition, thanks to Avalon making her literally invincible.

Gay Bulge does nothing to him, since he doesn't need blood vessels or blood or anything like that to survive. It the same as Accel in that sense.
Ea can't tear the entire phase, that's far too much for it.
Saber can't beat him, either.

Dark Matter has no weaknesses.

He can create multiple clones that can shiftshape into any objects and each one is capable of turning into the 'real' one though. You need to be able to kill all of them at the same time if you want to win.

Dark Matter does have a weakness but it's not something most people can exploit.

Fuck off

that's boring
Can servants defeat One-Eyed Othinus?

>Gay Bulge does nothing to him, since he doesn't need blood vessels or blood or anything like that to survive. It the same as Accel in that sense.
Gae Bulg strikes the heart, and then fills the entire body with thorns. Can he survive being torn apart from the inside, user?

>Ea can't tear the entire phase, that's far too much for it.
Ea is an anti-World Noble Phantasm. It is literally a weapon that destroys entire realities. It can easily crush an Esper's Personal Reality; they're directly analogous to Reality Marbles, and we see it destroying a Reality Marble in canon in Fate/Zero.

Gilgamesh also has Fragarach, which would go back in time to before he first activated his powers and kill him then.

>Saber can't beat him, either.
She's literally invulnerable, and has Excalibur and Rhongomyniad, both of which are extremely powerful Noble Phantasms, the latter of which is capable of tearing reality away and leaving only illusion/fantasy behind, and I'm pretty sure that this battle would meet the requirments to unlock their full power.

Kakine would be turned into Medb's fuck toy.

Solomon could beat Othinus.

>She's literally invulnerable

Saberfags actually believe that after Zero, HF and UBW.

Dark matter doesn't have any organs. He is a blob of dark matter in a humanoid form. And he can create multiple clones of himself, each capable of using his power at full strength and can turn into almost any single object he wants.

>Gae Bulg strikes the heart, and then fills the entire body with thorns. Can he survive being torn apart from the inside, user?
Sure can, physical trauma does nothing to him.

>It is literally a weapon that destroys entire realities
You oversell it by a large margin here, it's a weapon that destroys small localized changes in reality. Ea never destroyed the Universe, did it?

>It can easily crush an Esper's Personal Reality; they're directly analogous to Reality Marbles
They're not, though. It's a much larger thing than that.

>Gilgamesh also has Fragarach, which would go back in time to before he first activated his powers and kill him then.
That's not how Fragarach works, sorry. Also, Gil doesn't own it.

>She's literally invulnerable, and has Excalibur and Rhongomyniad, both of which are extremely powerful Noble Phantasms, the latter of which is capable of tearing reality away and leaving only illusion/fantasy behind, and I'm pretty sure that this battle would meet the requirments to unlock their full power.
Kakine can't be killed unless you find every little piece of Dark Matter in the entire universe and get rid of all of it.

What can Solomon do?

>“These small fights are such a pain. I think I’ll just end the world.”
>And exactly as she had announced, everything was immediately destroyed.

How does her power work? I read the wiki and still don't really get it.

At her strongest aka Magic God, she's a universal reality warper. What don't you get about it?

Base level Othinus?
She can do ANYTHING, but she has to flip a coin, either it works or it does the opposite.
Fairy Othinus?
She can do ANYTHING, but the exact opposite happens.
Full-power Othinus with Gungnir?
You're fucked.

>Ea never destroyed the Universe, did it?
A Reality Marble is a pocket universe, and it destroys one in Fate/Zero. It works on a conceptual basis, so it doesn't matter how big that universe is; it just destroys the whole thing.

Also, come to think of it, Enkidu's also got his own version of Ea, on top of his own primordial shapeshifting powers, so he should be able to kill Kakine, too.

>That's not how Fragarach works, sorry.
Fragarach activates in response to the enemy activating their trump card, and then travels back in time to kill them before they could do so. For enemies with constant-effect trump cards, like Berserker Hercules, it travels back in time to before they gained that effect. So, if used against Kakine, it'd travel back in time to before he turned himself into Dark Matter and kill him then.

>Also, Gil doesn't own it.
Gilgamesh owns every Noble Phantasm that was created by a human, and the copies of Fragarach used by Bazette and her family are each individually created by them through a magical ritual, so Gilgamesh would have one stored in his Gate of Babylon.

>Kakine can't be killed unless you find every little piece of Dark Matter in the entire universe and get rid of all of it.
Okay, and that Dark Matter is the materialization of his Personal Reality, right? So, if you can destroy his Personal Reality, his power would be broken, and I'm pretty sure that Rhongomyniad would be capable of that. Excalibur's likely capable of just straight-up destroying all of it through brute force.

Also, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure that King Hassan and Ryougi Shiki would be capable of killing him as well, by using their ability to actualize the concept of Death.

Literally any form of Magecraft that any Magus in the Nasuverse can use, and that's before you start getting into his Noble Phantasms, which can do shit like "kill every human that was ever born, backwards through time so that humanity's history gets erased".

So, she's a Divine Spirit, then? She gets taken down by Gilgamesh and/or Karna, then. Maybe also Oda Nobunaga - being a universal reality warper doesn't mean anything when you're no longer in your own universe, and the person whose universe it belongs to has a conceptual advantage over you.

That's great and all for Solomon, but can he destroy and remake the entire universe on a whim like Othinus can?

Ars Almadel Salomonis gg.

Yes, in fact. Even Goetia being gimped without the 10th ring was able to do that.

Jannu could just La Pucelle him. Just like any other concept killer like MEODP and Azrael.

She isn't a divine spirit, she is a mage so powerful she was worshipped as a divinity. Her powers work by adding filters on reality to change it.

How exactly are they even going to use their powers before she destroys them and their entire universe with a thought? Or that she, in her depowered state, can shift the entire universe around just to move her and Touma to Denmark.

Then it's a stalemate. Two powerful reality warpers is just a fight of whose infinity is larger.

>if you can destroy his Personal Reality
user, his Personal Reality can't be destroyed. A personal Reality is simple an the distortion of reality with the AIM he emits.

Salomon with the 10 rings is orders of magnitude greater than Goetia, though.
Same with other Grand servants, such as King Hassan, that can kill anything, as long as the bells toll.

>Gae Bulg strikes the heart, and then fills the entire body with thorns. Can he survive being torn apart from the inside, user?
"He" has no heart or body anymore. He is dark matter and as long as it exists, he exists along with it. If one of him dies, another can just pop out of existance.
>Ea is an anti-World Noble Phantasm. It is literally a weapon that destroys entire realities. It can easily crush an Esper's Personal Reality; they're directly analogous to Reality Marbles, and we see it destroying a Reality Marble in canon in Fate/Zero.
The universe is filled with dark matter. Destroying a world won't do shit.
>She's literally invulnerable, and has Excalibur and Rhongomyniad, both of which are extremely powerful Noble Phantasms, the latter of which is capable of tearing reality away and leaving only illusion/fantasy behind, and I'm pretty sure that this battle would meet the requirments to unlock their full power.
No one here would win. Kakine lacks firepower to defeat Saber if she's absolutely invulnerable, and Saber will have to continue fighting for the rest of her life clones after clones.

Let us speak of the king's tale.

No, she's multiversal.

Didn't he still lose in the end?

>Divine Spirit
She's not. Magic Gods are just magicians who eventually was eventually worshiped and took on different mythological gods.

Goetia did (with Solomon's body, but without the 10 rings), Solomon was the one who defeated him. Solomon then sacrificed himself to revive Mashu.

So, he's not really as powerful as you claim him to be then.

Solomon is, Goetia isn't Solomon. The 7 Beasts and 7 Grand servants are all extremely powerful.

Sup

Hello.

You got it wrong user, Solomon defeated Goetia by using the tenth ring which was basically a suicide attack that removes Solomon from the throne of heroes, weakening Goetia with that. Even that was only enough to weaken him to a level where he can be defeated and still needed to be beaten by the Chaldea servants afterwards.
Mashu was also resurrected by Fou, not Solomon.

What about him? Dark matter was used to recreate Gungnir. He can go full Shiro and remake that bow of his and give it to all of his clones.

Hi.

Seems like I got some things mixed up. But Grand Caster Solomon could probably still defeat most raildex characters. That is, if he needs to, since he is a chill guy for the most part.

>Her powers work by adding filters on reality to change it.
So, basically, she can change the rules by which the World operates? Add Artoria to the list of Servants that could beat her, then; Avalon would make her immune to her powers, and ToAruverse magicians work by invoking divinities and the faith of the masses, right? Rhongomyniad can lock all of that away, since it's the nail that seals the barrier between the Age of Gods and the modern age.

>How exactly are they even going to use their powers before she destroys them and their entire universe with a thought?
Well, in the case of Gilgamesh, a combination of precognition and pure, unbreakable ego. He could get reality warped out of existence and then just go "nope" and ego his way out of it.

In the case of Karna, he's just got a suit of armor bonded to his skin that makes him nigh-invulnerable, even against gods, and was specifically noted to make him proof against being deleted from existence.
Solomon can erase her before she was ever born. You can't lose a fight if there was never a fight to begin with.

The pelt will just block literally anything you try to do and he will probably steal it as well.
And that's not even a full powered Heracles.

>So, basically, she can change the rules by which the World operates?
No. Think of the universe as the background layer in photoshop. Magic Gods adds a a layer on top of that where they can do whatever they want.

>probably steal it as well
And then it dissolves.

It really doesn't matter too much as Dark Matter will just keep spawning more of himself armed with the bow and pelt, in addition to whatever shit he can imagine and create. It's an endless army of clones versus one. He will get drowned in numbers.

Solomon should be around peak saint level since most of his magic hacks don't work on raildex magic. At peak he should be slightly weaker than Archangel Gabriel.

Reincarnation Pandora doesn't merely steal the weapon, it's a conceptual stealing.
Such as if someone uses dark matter near him, he can steal the way to make things with dark matter.
Which is why Gil didn't use Ea against him.

As long as he is male, Medb can defeat him.

Could he use it? I doubt someone born thousand in earl human history knows what to do with dark matter. Why doesn't he steal the concept of the world and use it?

Raildex mages use the idol theory, which basiaclly copies legends of symbols to create supernatural phenomena. They don't really need the god or the legend to be real, only the symbol counts. In theory they could simply take some manga and use the idol theory for creating new spells.

He could steal Jack's From Hell which turns Jack into a demon, and I doubt this was something that existed in ancient Greece.

>The universe is filled with dark matter. Destroying a world won't do shit.
"World" means "universe" in this context, user. Don't be dense; they're both "sekai" in Japanese. Besides, like all Espers, his power's limited to the manifestations of his Personal Reality; things outside his Personal Reality would be unaffected, so no, he's not "all the dark matter in the universe", he's "all the dark matter in his Personal Reality", so by destroying that, you destroy him.

>No one here would win. Kakine lacks firepower to defeat Saber if she's absolutely invulnerable, and Saber will have to continue fighting for the rest of her life clones after clones.
Saber can literally destroy science and the laws of physics, user. You know, the things his power is based on. That's what I meant by "tearing reality away and leaving only illusion/fantasy behind".

So, she's a Divine Spirit, then. The same thing happened to Scathach in the Nasuverse.

It's not a theory. In one of the SS, Cthulu mythos isn't real but they still managed to create one. They can indeed create a new mythos and its powers if they tried hard enough.

Could Tiamat beat Othinus?

The overpowered enemys ALWAYS lose in the trash-tier manner Kamachi writes: change of heart, PIS or good guys have impossible amounts of plot armor.

So yes, since heroic spirit is basically just a different word for plot armor im pretty certain even a literal 1 year old baby would beat any bad guy.

So, are we talking like a Marble Phantasm, then, where she's capable of accomplishing "anything that is possible" according to the rules of the World?

I think he means the ability to use dark matter since that shit requires an understanding vast amounts of physics which Herakles obviously doesn't have.

If he can't resist fast enough to nega genesis and sea of life, then probably.

You do realize he lost due to the vast difference in power between him and his opponents, right? He didn't lose to anyone weaker than him.

When it steals something, he also learns it's True Name and the proper way to use it. So even if you used a futuristic weapon that only you can handle, for example, he would be able to use the weapon to 110% of it's power. Think of something like Medaka's The End. Strange Fake powerlevels are absolutely retarded.

Not that user, so if there's no power left to undo her filter then she's pretty much the god and her phrase exist forever?
BTW, what kind of power is qualified to undo her phrase?

She creates a universal reality marble and dictates the rules of how the new universe operates.

She throws galaxies, and tortures a boy by adding layers on top of layers for billions of years, in universe where everything she says goes. You tell me.

Considering he can create radiation that doesn't operate on the laws of physics of the universe, knowledge of physics wouldn't help whatsoever.

Servants receive a knowledge of the modern world as a part of their summoning, and Heracles has Eye of the Mind (False) that lets him see a path to victory as long as there's a 1% chance of success.

Its not a Marble phantasm, its more like the ability to treat existence as personal paper for drawing ones delusions. It has a far more range and allows her to create anything she wants. Pic related is the universe after she decided to erase everything in existence except Touma.

It's phase, and seems like a full powered Imagine Breaker is the only thing capable of truly destroying phases.

>if there's no power left to undo her filter
What do you mean?
>what kind of power is qualified to undo her phrase
IB and IT wasn't enough. At the end, she dismantled the phases herself.

She can also revive and control dead people.

If Teitoku can create, let's say, 10x clones per second, then Heracles (Alcides) would be able to create 20x clones that are even stronger per second.

That means jack shit if the required knowledge belongs advanced physics.

Which is irrelevant since he acquires all knowledge the moment he sees it, due to King's Order.

So no one wins. Cuckine doesn't have enough to beat Heracles, and Heracles can't beat anything without a body.

Does that also include the application of that knowledge?

Only full power IB or other Magic Gods can do that. Crowly could maybe do it to but he is technically just a magic god level mage that is still a human.

That's not what eotm does. At all. You are mixing up your skills here.

It's not really Heracles, but Alcides. Proper Heracles would likely instantly win, but he wouldn't want to fight.

Yes.

Okay, so she's just got an unusually flexible Reality Marble. She gets killed by Gilgamesh, then, and he might not even mess around that much because of how much he hates the gods.

She'd probably also lose to Nobunaga as well, since Nobunaga's got her own Reality Marble that's designed to be an anti-divinity and anti-mystery wasteland, so Nobunaga would just strip her of her powers and then shoot her in the head with a musket.

It doesn't matter. He can create objects that does not exist in the universe if he wants.

How would Oda even use her power if Othinus isn't in the same galaxy as her?

Alcides could do the same though. And better than the original user.
If he created a weapon from the 30th century, Alcides would instantly know how to defend against it, and create a weapon from the 40th century if he wants.

Her ability works far beyond that of servants. Gilgameshs Ea does not work since phases can't be destroyed without full powered Imagine breaker. Nobu is also useless since anti-mystery does not work one raildex mages.

Not a requirement. As long as it's a "God" Oda can kill it.

She can't dodge Gugnir though

>If there's no power left to undo her filter(phase)
Like, if there's no imagine breaker and she doesn't dismantle the phase herself it's pretty much the true reality right?
And couldn't other magic gods rewrite her phase with their own?

She can't, but inside her reality marble Sanzen Sekai, she can't be hurt and the target can't do anything.

Powerlevel threads are so fucking dumb.

That rule of her reality marble will be negated though. She just creates a new phase where the reality marble can't function.

If it works like a Reality Marble, Ea will definitely work because we've seen it destroy Reality Marbles before. We've also seen it tear holes between parallel universes, in Prisma Illya. I feel fairly confident that it would be capable of destroying her "layers".

Also, if her power works by "layering" over the base universe, a fully powered Arturia might be able to defeat her by modifying the base level of the universe with Rhongomyniad, like knocking out the supports holding a building up.

Yeah, pretty much. Also, the other True Magic Gods could dismantle it.

She can't do that inside the Reality Marble since she can't do anything inside the reality marble.

They could, in fact, all of them can, which is the problem. They each want to rewrite reality according to their will but since they all can, it ends up being a battle of whose infinity is larger and everything goes fubar. Hence why they don't do that and why they say Othinus is pathetic for doing just that.

It doesn't destroy the entire reality marble because if it does, Earth would have been rendered inhospitable after the first time it was used. It just tears a localized hole which can be promptly filled back up afterwards.