Fate

>"A king must live for himself!"
>*empire collapses*
What did he mean by this?

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That his empire lasting was not as important as his adventure.

That's only because he got assassinated.

All empires in history have collapsed, regardless of the ideology of their emperor.

yeah, but not always that fast

Alexander wanted his legacy to be that of a great conqueror, not a great ruler. Pic related is the opposite, as he saw military conquest as a means to an end, rather than the end itself.

He also didn't read the standard-issue servant history files on the modern era where the entire western culture idolizes martyrs.

What I want to know is did he smash Waver's boypussy or not.

I wonder, would the Indian heroes have a conceptual advantage over Iskandar's army?

His reign wasn't the best but it was the most legitimate, in the sense his people followed his dream with their hearts and souls.

Of course, not historically accurate, but we're going with the Fate character here.

>lives for himself
>after dying, his enemies change the history books so that everyone thinks he was a manlet

he becomes the collective achievement and pride of his people. through charisma or some shit

Why did all Empires collapse?

so... like trump?

Greek here, celebrating victories over external foes with infighting is what we do best. We even had a civil war post ww2.

people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

The funny thing is that even though Gilgamesh laughed at Saber's sentiments in that scene, when he took his throne as King properly after the whole snake thing, his ideology as king was a little closer to hers. He still had a massive ego, but he was a man willing to sacrifice himself for his kingdom.

Why did Gilgamesh's kingdom fall if he was so great

USA is still going strong.

>strong

That you can't be a slave to what the populace demands of you, because your responsibility is to lead them.

He also doesn't answer when Iskandar goes on about the king never being alone, because of his history with Enkidu.

She wasn't like that. She did exactly what was needed of her. It's just that the population wasn't satisfied because she couldn't resolve the fundamental problems with the kingdom: the constant invasions and the infertile crops.

Until recently, yeah. Its currently in the process of destroying is international relations and abdicating its position as #1 global superpower to China. People who subscribe to r/thedonald don't understand that our position on the geopolitical landscape is something that exists because of our relations with other nations, not independent of that. The last year has established a precedent that if the new President is enough of a baby about it, he won't honor agreements and deals made by the previous administration. That is absolutely DEVASTATING to any kind of international policy making. You wouldn't want to deal with a guy who says 'Yeah, January me ordered 200 chairs from you, but this is February. February me doesn't want chairs and isn't going to pay for any of that. FUCK YOU I AM THE GREATEST!' And neither does anyone else.

Once Trump leaves office, its going to take years of butt kissing to get back to our previous international footing, if indeed its even still waiting for us by the time we get there.

>collapsed
>regardless of the ideology of their emperor
Bullshit
USA exists
>Richest country in world
Yeah, still strong and more powerful than any other country in whole world. And lets not forget all those nukes that USA has.

>posting all of this garbage on Sup Forums
>being this butthurt
You are easily several times worse than anyone on Sup Forums.

Its important to remember, for that scene, that Gil and Iskander are heroic spirits copied from the hall of heroes. Saber isn't. Saber, due to plot bullshit, is stepping in directly from the hill of swords after her battle with Mordred.

Saber is Arturia herself, hours before her death. Gil and Iskandar are more... melded with their legend. Its why Gil is young instead of old as fuck, like he presumably died. And as such, Gil has the traits he had during his legend, like his pride and his hubris, instead of being at the emotional maturity at the end of his tale. Because thats not what he is known for.

>celebrating victories over external foes with infighting is what we do best
Slavs do this too

Nah. When you go back in time to Mesopotamia back when Gilgamesh was ruling as king after the thing with the snake, he's still a young man. This is his living self.

Your headcanon exists because Nasu's universe doesn't completely mesh with actual history or mythology, but they were never meant to mesh perfectly in the first place.

>Its currently in the process of destroying is international relations and abdicating its position as #1 global superpower to China.

Britbong here. No one ever has or ever will give a fuck about America's international relations. While your economy is strong and your military is strong you are a great power, when they are weak you are not.. Diplomacy is just window dressing.

>While your economy is strong and your military is strong you are a great power, when they are weak you are not

this cannot be overstated

Well how do you have a strong economy without producing anything internally?

The real empire were the friends he made along the way.

Well, Iskander was just lucky. He wasn't constantly plagued by annoying gods, he didn't really have to deal with too many monsters, he didn't inherit a dying kingdom that could barely produce enough food for its people to eat, his people didn't bitch constantly and he didn't have an evil fairy half-sister or a Lancelot.

Except in order to coerce other states to act in a way that benefits you diplomatic relations are extremely important. For both successful trade negotiations and and especially military operations, cooperation with other states is key. No matter how strong your economy or military is, your influence will always be undercut if states don't cooperate with you, especially now that MAD makes direct confrontation with competing powers practically impossible.

Anyone have that iskander vs gilgamesh analysis screencap lying around?

What do we need an analysis for? Iskander is a textbook example of why Gilgamesh is considered to be the strongest Servant.

It was a fun collapse so he has no regrets.

Because his entire deal was journey over destination. He was so enamored with his lifestyle and conquests that he either didn't realize or didn't care that it would lead to the demise of him and his kingdom

ask japan.
ask sweden.

He makes a bit more sense when you consider that he's the king of conquerors, like he's their ideal. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a competent administrator or ruler, just that he's really damn good at conquering and everything to do with that.

Stop gobbling up that commie cock dipshit. No one that talks such hot trash is your friend.

I don't think that scene was supposed to imply that his way of kingship was right.

The answer is international relations, the machine that turns silicon and fish into cotton, vegetables, and beef.

I don't know why this thread hasn't been deleted with this cancer being posted here but I'll reply with a sage. If you believe that America's diplomatic and trade relations were in any way good pre-Trump, basically everything all of the Bushes and Clintons and Obama worked to create, you're retarded. If you believe that anything Trump has done has made those relations worse for us, you're even more retarded. Ironically Clinton who didn't win and Obama who is no longer in office have a stronger impact on our foreign relations than Trump right now because of their constant Russian fearmongering to cover up for their own incompetence and lies. It's that fearmongering that will take decades to repair, just like it took decades to reach acceptable relations with Russia after the end of the Cold War.

So what's the King of Knights then? Because half her knights were a bunch of fuckups.

>Agravain: Lord of terrible social skills. Like holy shit, if social skills had a rank, his would be E---.
>Lancelot: Just ask Galahad
>Gawain: MASHED. POTATOES.
>Modered: WHY THE FUCK IS EVERYTHING ON FIRE

>All diplomatic and trade relations under the last three presidents were entirely bad
>Russia is relevant to a discussion about trade and foreign policy
he's giving all the sadboys in his kingdom a reason to live, so that at the very least, they can say that they do what they do "for the King, a principled and lively man"

Can you see the future, son?

Empires are still the best system out all the systems in the world. Democracy/republics is a meme and doesn't work and you can see it with the United States of America.

>Roman Republic
>lasted around 500 years
>Roman Empire lasted for over 1,000 years and was so great that everyone wanted to become a citizen and ushered in the golden era

It still fits. Saber was the ideal knight, she was a pretty average king though.

Eh, the Romans had a tendency to collapse on themselves every couple of generations, which inevitably resulted in another social restructuring.

She was a great king. She kept that half-dead kingdom from completely collapsing for ten years. If it were anyone other than her, it would have died far sooner.

Russia undermines US interests both in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, if you think the US shouldn't try to stand against that, you're an idiot. One of Obama's biggest fuck up was not following through on his line in the sand and destroyed US threat credibility. Ironically, the best thing he's done in relation to Russia is help make sure Trump can't suck Putin off after he left office.

Saber's selflessness made some of her subjects question her humanity.
Iskander led his people down a wild goose chase for no other reason other than because he felt like it.
Gilgamesh is Gilgamesh.

Would you recharge his mana?

Sure. Servants don't have to worry about nutrients, right? I'll just buy him two dozen Big Macs or something. He can't even use Ionioi Hetairoi in that state so I don't have to worry about mana.

>Roman Empire lasted for over 1,000 years
>counting Byzantium and the crisis periods

Oyakodon is better

>She kept that half-dead kingdom from completely collapsing for ten years.
that's not a long time we're talking about countries in fact it takes most countries that long to collapse look at venezuela

Yeah, but that country was literally on the verge of death when she took up the throne. There was even a dragon around making things worse. Also, there were constant invasions from other kingdoms.

Without Saber, it would have been a total bloodbath. The fact that she kept things stable for ten years was pretty miraculous.

Roman empire is such a good system that it has to be divided to sustain

The biggest contribution that Saber made to that kingdom was basically ten years of peace and stability. It was a fragile piece, and Saber was forced to fight on the outskirts constantly, but it was still peace.

In the end, though, all she was was life support. And then her delinquent son broke everything.

>Lancelot was so shit as a person he prefers to be summoned as a berserker than a saber

It's literally the only state that Shielder can tolerate him in as well. If he's normal, then even with For Someone's Glory, Shielder immediately singles him out as her natural enemy. She can only accept his presence when he's a Berserker.

>Lancelot awkwardly tries to disguise himself as berserker rather than face Shielder

Yeah, pretending to be a Berserker doesn't work. He has to be a legit mindless Berserker for her to be okay with him.

He still gives it a good go in the Halloween event
>LOSERRRRRR

But Alexander was Macedonian not Greek. You have no purpose here.

I mean, if you really think about it, Galahad's anger is totally understandable. Look at it from his shoes.

Imagine if your dad
>Never once behaved like a proper father
>Was a shameless adulterer
>Was hailed as the greatest knight in the kingdom, but was ultimately one of the primary factors responsible for the kingdom's downfall
>Betrayed and dishonored the king that you loved and respected
>Killed many of your friends and coworkers
>Never takes any responsibility for himself

Imagine if that was your dad. Imagine being the child of that.

He died then his empire collapsed. So everything collapsing was beyond himself.

you're a retard

Let’s not even talk about that. Does God exist if servants like Solomon have received gifts from him? Is he one of the divine spirits that just disappeared?

USA has been in the lead for just 50 years now.

Mongolia for 200
Britain for 500
Rome at 1000 years.

Alexander's empire lasted for 300 years before collapsing due to civil wars and Roman invasion

There's some cosmic force that wants to see humans succeed. Solomon was one of the agents they said to fulfill that. That's all we know for sure.

>daddy (which you conspired to assassinate) builds you the greatest most unbeatable army the world has ever seen

>could have had a great long lasting empire but proceed to chimp out and declare war on everyone and start LARPing as a persian, dying in the process of your autistic meme campaigns

>empire immediately crumbles after your death

Is their a more overrated leader in all of history? Phillip II was a much better ruler in my opinion.

lol if you consider constant political strife and civil war to be great, Rome is an excellent model for the world.

He did take responsibility though
>"Even though it is in this way, in the end I still did borrow your chest…”
>As if dreaming during a nap, the Knight of the Lake quietly whispered and sighed.
>"To die in the King’s arms, before the King’s eyes… haha, like this it is really… as if I am a loyal knight…”
>"You - shouldn't say that - "
>Saber anxiously answered. Before he disappeared, there was something that she needed to tell him. She hoped that he would understand.
>Not ‘as if’. It was ‘indeed is’.
>She wanted to tell him, you are a loyal knight. No one knows better than I—the sincerity you devoted to the country, to the King.
>So there was no more need for self-reproach. Even if it had been a mistake that was not allowed to be made—your character is not something that can be overturned by a single mistake.
>I don’t want to shame you; I don’t want to lose you. Precisely because I have this wish, I can truly deny this so-called crime that you have committed.
>These were Arturia’s true thoughts, but—could not become that knight’s salvation.
>The knight closed his eyes as if sleeping soundly; his body was gradually dissipating. Saber saw that he was about to vanish, but nevertheless could not think of what would be the right thing to say.
>"Lancelot, actually you…!”
>You are not a sinner—but what significance would such words still hold for him?
>Even if someone denied his crime, the one most caught up in this wrongdoing was not anyone else, but Lancelot himself.
>Why had she been unaware of this lonely thought of his? Why had she been unable to release the noble spirit of this knight from a self-reproach that bordered on madness?

I think there's something severely wrong about going insane and blaming someone for not punishing you for your crimes.

Are you referring to Alexander?
Cause he never had the " greatest most unbeatable army the world has ever seen". That goes to Darius.

He won against Dariu's elephants, immortals, cavalry archers, and superior weaponry because of strategic wisdom and ability to inspire his men.

Also, he never cared about having a long lasting empire. If he did, he would bear a son. He even had a gay relationship with Hephaestion

Well, even if it wasn't a legitimate son, he should have at least prepared a proper heir. The only reason Saber didn't was because she knew that the kingdom wouldn't outlast her.

Spoiled rich faggot got used his daddy's money and soldier to wage war on the mostly peaceful peoples around him and set civilization back centuries.
Yeah, great conqueror.
Alexander was a manlet bitch.

>republics are a meme
>one of the most stable and longest lasting regimes in history was a republic

>It's literally the only state that Shielder can tolerate him in as well.
Who da fuck is Shielder?

Isnt it Alaya or some shit like that?

saber didn't have an heir because it's following fucking nasu's (literally)gay as fuck take on the fanfiction known as arturian legend.

and your a smelly poopoo head
what is your next great rebuttal?

And the US undermines Russian interests in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. What's your point? Russia is also the only real nuclear power on the same level as the US, so at least trying to make nice is preferrable over the outrageous slandering and propaganda coming from American leftist media. I love how you call a modest attempt to somewhat repair relations from such allegations "sucking Putin off". Putin at least has enough common sense to put his own country's interests above others', which can't be said for the EU and pre-Trump America who think nationalism is a bad word. Both Putin and Trump have obvious weaknesses in their governing methods, but they aren't actively undermining their own people's futures.