Madoka Magica

"And this is a Soul Gem.
It allows us to transform into magical girls."


"Woah, that's super cool, Mami!

Why are they called Soul Gems?"


-Entire Series crumbles into itself-

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Maybe they played the Elder Scrolls and thought they captured the souls of witches

nice

Homura explicitly tells them what they are in one timeline, and they still become meguka

Homura is an idiot who should have spoiled everything.

And no amount of "She tried that on a timeline!" is gonna change that.

But she did try that. And Madoka still became meguka. Homura's not trying to save everyone, she just wants to stop Madoka from making a wish, and she's never successful.

Not trying to save everyone is literally the reason Madoka becomes meguca.

Common things that happen in every timeline like Sayaka dying would have been enough to convince literally everyone that she is from the future.

"Bitch, Sayaka is gonna make a contract by wishing for Kyusuke´s hand to be fixed."

Or take violin boy hostage and force Sayaka to wish for Madoka to be unable to become meguca.

She successfully convinced them she was from the future in multiple timelines. She convinced them that making a wish turned them into witches. She convinced them of the truth over and over, but it didn't stop Madoka from making her wish, because Madoka just wants to save people. Homura was never gong to be able to make it happen, and if the fourth movie becomes a reality we'll see this manifest again. It's the core conflict between the two, Homura's selfish obsession against Madoka's selfless love.

The girls thinking their magical girl fiction is the real deal. A name like "soul gem" is as unsuspecting to them as everything else, including the cute rabbit thing that granted their wish and made them magical girls. Even if they asked QB, it wouldn't give it to them straight, as QBs are utilitarians and don't do anything they view as counterproductive.

The girls are young, they're still naive and highly emotional; QB's approach is as a cute mascot, not a sleazy car salesman. They get sold a wish and the glamorous dream of becoming a magical girl fighting monsters and protecting the innocent. The girls will say yes. Hell, the girls seem driven to contract for their own reasons anyhow.

>Or take violin boy hostage and force Sayaka to wish for Madoka to be unable to become meguca.
Kyubey would probably turn this wish down. He can sense potential energy, and wanted Madoka to turn very badly

>Madoka
>good writing
Pick exactly one

"She trieeed that in one timeline, believe me!"

Shit argument will always stay shit.

It was confirmed there were only 100 timelines at most, so Homura did not try literally everything.

Even in the 100th timeline, she did nothing but give random hints to Madoka and pals instead of direct spoilers.

He literally can't turn down wishes.

Sure, the hundredth timeline she didn't try telling them everything. Could she have predicted it would be her last chance? I think you are kind of desperate to find a plot hole that doesn't exist.

Yet he still made Madoka Godoka when that would nullify their efforts until that point.

Kyubey is literally obligated to grant wishes.

I don't remember that being the case, and it doesn't really make sense

Will they ever do a 4th movie?

God, I hope not.

But it didn't nullify their efforts

We've been getting teases for it for a while, and may be now that Kizu's done with they'll start considering it more seriously. You gotta have Urobuchi on board, though, and I don't know how interested he is.

Does Madoka horrify viewers?

The problem is that Homura is too dumb to use future knowlede on her favor.

If she knew Mami was gonna get killed and that she was gonna refuse her help, why would she get caught by her ribbons if its the 100th time she tried to help her?

In episode 10 we just see her telling them that QB was trying to trick them without evidence.

Well no fucking shit they didnt believe her.

They, like me, are naive people without the blessing of hindsight who thought it was just a name with no real meaning.
Also, even if they asked, QB would just dodge the question just like he dodged the question about witches.

Madoka took all of the dispair from the world and rebooted it.

It literally made QBs workless aside from eating nightmares.

If Godoka solved entrophy, then why the fuck would they bother in the new universe?

Its a plot hole. deal with it Akemifag.

Explain why he didnt turn down madoka's wish, then, or didnt corrupt it if he had the power to control it.
You can't.

It doesn't seem like every timeline goes exactly the same. I doubt that particular ribbon trick had happened exactly as before.

How come they had the technology to make any wish possible but could not fix enthropy????

Everything before Homura waking at the hospital is exactly the same, but only afterwards is it different, usually due to Homura's actions.

Why would he stop a wish that solved the problem the Magical Girl Program was designed to deal with? Their motivation for fucking with Madoka in the new universe is unrelated to that, because their species evolved in a universe without entropy to worry about. They're still basically the same, in that their primary motivation is control, though. That's why they want to observe, and then manipulate Madoka.

Homura should have locked Madoka up in a sex dungeon and ball gagged her so she couldn't make a contract.

There are still some events that happen no matter what.
Like Sayaka turning witch and Kyoko dying rescuing her.

Or Mami dying if Madoka or Sayaka doesnt turn early.

Right, that's what I meant. Homura's not exactly tracing her steps, so things aren't ever going to be easy to perfectly predict like that.

Wishing isn't tech but a meguca's own magic, silly

Definitely. Those are major character choices, as opposed to small consequences. Their character isn't going to change in the small amount of time Homura has to work with, they've already become who they are.

Please only post when you know what you're talking about.
Thank you.

Right back at you, friendo

Madoka didn't nullified entropy because QB's race was the one uplifting humanity. Everything humanity had achieved up until now was done through the sacrifices of the magical girls and their wishes. For all intents and purposes, humanity needed QB's race to become humanity.

Its because Homura is a fucking idiot.

Marty McFly took only one try.
Link in Majora´s Mask only had 3 days.
Erased Kid only needed two tries.
Future Trunks only had 1 try to fix things.
Mikuru literally fixes everything in 1 try as well.

Homura had an entire month and 100 tries and still fucking failed.

>hurr why aren't the characters perfect robots
Homura is a traumatized child soldier with zero social skills.

Im sure QB was exaggerating

>Why didn't Homura have everything under control?
I used to ask this question, but it's dumb. It's asking too much of her; there were too many factors that would result in a failed timeline. It was impossible to save Madoka.

>these other fictional character managed to solve their problem in this arbitrarily small amount of time determined by their author and that means Homura is stupid
I actually chuckled, it's a good post

Maybe the characters don't actually know what the English word "soul" means

She is so traumatized she doesnt even have common sense anymore.

You know someone is gonna get run over if they cross the street.

"Sir! Please dont cross the street, you´ll die!"

Homura is an idiot, but I think people are being a little too unfair to her.

If every time loop is a month long isn't Homura like an adult woman by the start of the series?

Because she resets to her 14 yo body every time.

She is 23-24 Mentally.

She should've just abducted her and kept her in a rape dungeon

Not physically, but she is technically in her 20s by that point.

She told Madoka not to become a magical girl like ten times and explained that it will result in her dying. Madoka is still willing to do it even if she knows it will result in her becoming a witch. She's up against Madoka's self-sacrificing nature which is nearly impossible to stop.

Her brain is still physically restricted to that of a child, and she has experienced none of the traditional maturation experiences. I probably wouldn't classify her as an adult, even if she's technically lived through the same amount of time.

>nearly
I think we can both agree that the show proves it is impossible to stop

If you're a quitter maybe.

I really hope we get to see Madoka self-sacrifice her way out of Homura's universe in another movie

Its a bit of a grey zone like the 10 billion year old loli thing.

No she fucking didnt.

She told her that she shouldnt change if she wanted to keep her loved ones alive.


Oh shit, that surely means she shouldnt turn!

Hell, when she was on the rooftop with Sayaka and Madoka and knew Mami was watching she just said "Remember what i told you" and when Madoka asks her what she wished for, she just ran away....instead of...

"I am from the future.

Mami is over there, in the clock tower.
Sayaka goes to visit kyosuke every day, he cant play violin anymore.
A witch will appear on the side of the hospital at this date at this time.
I wished to be able to come back in time to stop you fucking idiots from dying.

The soul gems are your souls.
Megucas become witches.
Mami will literally try to kill you once she finds this out.
Oooops, i guess i shouldnt have said that, but wathever."

Literally less than a day into the Homuverse, Madoka tried to be God again.

>She told her that she shouldnt change if she wanted to keep her loved ones alive.
She never said this, btw. You misunderstood that line just as badly as you misunderstood the rest of the show.

"Teehee what? Is this a prank Akemi-san?"

>U didnt get it lolz

Fuck off

At no point did Madoka say "oh shit I didn't realize you meant I would die, there's no way I'll become a magical girl then".
Well, she did for a bit in like episode 4 when she was traumatized from Mami's death, but she changes her mind later.
Even after she knows that being a magical girl means dying, she keeps trying to contract. In episode 5 and episode 8 Homura has to physically prevent her from doing so.
This is the girl who jumped to her death against Walpurgis after seeing it kill Mami and knowing full well the same thing was going to happen to her.
She's not going to be stopped by the consequences.

Maybe if Homura was a super smooth operator with a +20 Diplomacy modifier she could talk her out of it, but she's not.

I'm not trying to be insulting, the way you talk about certain lines in the show suggests that you actually misinterpreted a bunch of stuff. I think you should consider rewatching the show. Personally, I've been rewatching episodes and taking notes on important lines. It's got a fair amount of nuance.

"Go check it out in 2 days.
If there is a witch there, you can shut your goddamn whore mouth."

Take Violin Boy hostage and make Sayaka wish for Maguca to be unnable to turn meguca.

If everything else fails, do not be a fucking cunt and make yourself friends with everyone and fight walpurgis together.

>make yourself friends with everyone and fight walpurgis together.
She did this in a couple of timelines, too

>Take Violin Boy hostage and make Sayaka wish for Maguca to be unnable to turn meguca.
That's fucking retarded, I highly doubt Sayaka would agree to that even if that kind of wish is even possible. Meta-wishes usually don't work out in this kind of story.

>make yourself friends with everyone and fight walpurgis together.
She tries this but everyone keeps fucking dying. I'm not convinced it's even possible to beat Walpurgis conventionally even if she did get everyone to work together.

Is this trolling? What's so hard to understand about the fact that Madoka is so self-sacrificial that there was literally nothing Homura could do to prevent her from making a wish.
Homura couldn't possibly convince her because warnings like "if you make a wish you'll die" have no bearing on Madoka's reasoning for making the wish in the first place.
Homura's only way to succeed is to prevent the scenario which ultimately causes Madoka to make her wish, that being Walpurgis' rampage through the city. But Homura isn't strong enough to defeat Walpurgis no matter what she tries, thus she's stuck in the loop.

>make Sayaka wish for Maguca to be unnable to turn meguca
You really think Sayaka's suffering/wish potential is strong enough to deny Madoka's godhood? Remember that bigger wishes require more energy, which is a factor dependant on suffering.

Related
youtube.com/watch?v=pQp8GWdpYug

When and why did the word for amv change?

>I'm not convinced it's even possible to beat Walpurgis conventionally
This is probably the case, considering that Walpurgis is well-known and documented amongst the magical girls, so much so that people know where it will show up beforehand. If such a supermassively powerful witch is so well known, it's only reasonable to assume that magical girls have teamed up to try and defeat it before.

And what happened.

She kept getting Sayaka, Mami and Kyoko killed.

How could she have easly prevented these deaths, you ask?

Sayaka.-Dont be a fucking bitch to Sayaka and make her either waste her wish on something else.

If she is gonna wish for Kyosuke, tell her that she should wish to be able to heal injuries, not just to heal his fucking hand.

Kill Green girl so Kyosuke doesnt have other choice but Sayaka, Homura could just leave her in a witch maze and get rid of the body as well.

To stop her from feeling she is a zombie and shit, stop Mami from dying. (Explained below)

Mami.-
Dont be a fucking bitch and help her fight Charlotte.

-
She survives if she doesnt find out megucas turn into witches, so save Sayaka by saving Mami beforehand.

Kyoko-
Stop Sayaka from turning.

Madoka critics forget Kyubey exists as the biggest thorn in Homura's side.

Don't be stupid, e-celeb-chan!

Entropy is a concept ingrained in the fabric of our dimension. You eventually run out of things. You literally cannot get rid of it without drastically, radically changing the way the world works.

This is an interesting point. We don't see much of Kyubey in ep 10. I wonder how much manipulation he pulls to keep the girls turning and burning.

He is literally fucking powerless against truth.

Homu a shit.

worst time traveler

How? He still convinces them to become meguka, in spite of its downsides. He only keeps them hidden because it's harder.

>tell her that she should wish to be able to heal injuries, not just to heal his fucking hand.
This doesn't matter in the slightest, the problem with the Kyousuke situation is Sayaka's dissonance between what she wants and what she wishes for, and her issues with self-worth. That's not a problem someone else can solve for her, Homura's not a therapist.

>Kill Green girl
I don't think Homura is quite that ice cold. She was only hesitantly willing to kill Sayaka when she was on the verge of becoming a witch.

>Dont be a fucking bitch and help her fight Charlotte.
Mami doesn't trust Homura because she keeps trying to kill QB and prevent Madoka from becoming a meguca, hence why Mami just tied her up in episode 3 to prevent her from interfering. Which is to say, pursuing her primary goal is exactly what turns Mami against her.

Because Homura is retarded.

Because Homura is an ordinary traumatized girl in far over her head while QB is an alien who has been manipulating emotional teenage girls for thousands of years.

ok

>Homura is not that ice cold
She lets everyone die and doesnt give a damn if Mami or Sayaka died.
She nukes the city after Madoka dies in Homura Tamura.

>Homura is not a terapist
No, but if she knew Sayaka´s ´powers would be useless, at least convince her to do something useful.

And dont be a bitch. After a shit ton of timelines, you have to find a way to become if not her friend, fucking tolerable.

>She keeps trying to kill QB
That just proves she is fucking retarded. She herself knows the fucker would regenerate.

If she wasnt a bitch like in the previous timelines, Mami would have stayed alive until she goes berserk by finding megucas turn into witches.

And if she just went along with it and also offered to protect Madoka and Sayaka she would been able to save Mami and keep all three in check.

She just kept pushing everyone away by being a fucking cunt to everyone but Kyoko.

She flat out would have killed Sayaka if Kyoko didnt stop her.

>She lets everyone die
Not by her choice. She would save everyone if she could, but she can't even save one person. Look at her subdued reaction after Kyouko dies in ep 9, she's not heartless even if she tries to come off that way. And more to the point, letting someone die is very different from killing.
>Homura Tamura.
Not canon.

>at least convince her to do something useful.
Fucking how? Sayaka isn't going to agree to become a healbot for the team just because Homura asks nicely, she's incredibly headstrong and doesn't like other people telling her how to live her life.

The reason she's a bitch in the anime timeline is that she's not trying to become friends with anyone, since she already tried that. We explicitly saw her try to form a team in episode 10, but she can't convince anyone of anything and almost gets murdered by Mami for her trouble. I don't blame her for not wanting to keep trying that. Again, she is not good at socializing and there's no reason to expect her to be.

>doesnt give a damn if Mami or Sayaka died
Officially a brainlet.
And did you just cite a non-canon gag/lolsorandum manga written by a different author to make your point? Is this how low the argument has gotten?

>She would have saved everyone if she could

read again and read this
>Not wanting to be friends with everyone
Well no fucking she cant beat Walpurgis without help.

She fucking killed her chances by becoming a cunt and just ignoring basic common sense every timeline.

Also, you didnt respond to my other points, so fuck off.

You are oficially a fucking retard.

She literally tries to kill Sayaka before Kyoko stops her.

Now sit down, fucko.

>without drastically, radically changing the way the world works

So, like a magical girls wish then?
>I wish for the concept of entropy to disappear
Check Mate, Koobey!

Option 1: Kill Sayaka before she becomes a witch.
Option 2: Let Sayaka become a witch, and then kill her.

Madoka experienced the entire shit when she went to save each and every single magical girl. If he was exaggerating, she would know.

>>I wish for the concept of entropy to disappear
You tear apart every single atom in the universe as a result. Nice job.

She only tried to kill Sayaka since she was about to become a witch, it was a mercy kill at that point. She's not a remorseless murderer, she's not the type of person who will kill random civilians because they're inconvenient.

> she cant beat Walpurgis without help.
Hence why she tried to recruit Kyouko. She didn't predict that Kyouko would go off and kill herself on a pointless quest to save Sayaka. She got outplayed by QB, because again, he's an immortal puppetmaster and she's a broken child.

Option 3:Stop Sayaka from becoming mahou

>I wish for the concept of entropy to disappear
I'm sure this won't have any negative consequences
Oh whoops, the entire universe is frozen in stasis because that's the only way to stop entropy from increasing.

Holy fucking shit, yes she fucking could.

This shit happened 100 times.

And in every single one of them everyone was in a group because Homura wasnt a fucking cunt at the time.

So, Kuubey BTFO, got it. Suck on these nuts, Incubator! Up yours!

This is why we can't have nice things!

>I am from the future
Bullshit.
>Mami is over there, in the clock tower
Yeah, we all know, because telepathy.
>Sayaka goes to visit kyosuke every day, he cant play violin anymore
Wow, you're a creepy ass stalker.
>A witch will appear on the side of the hospital at this date at this time
*may or may not appear because timelines vary
> wished to be able to come back in time to stop you fucking idiots from dying
>The soul gems are your souls
>Megucas become witches
>Mami will literally try to kill you once she finds this out
Bullshit.

>Oh whoops, the entire universe is frozen in stasis

Madoka, Sayaka, Mami and everyone else saved forever from their demise, this is a win-win.

I don't put much stock in the "100 times" figure since it's never actually indicated in the show how many loops there were. We just know there was a lot.
We also don't know if things are exactly the same every loop, or if butterfly effect causes things to happen in different ways each time. Oktavia is a rock band witch in one timeline for some reason, and Homura seems surprised by more than one event in the anime. You can't make the assumption that she knows exactly what is going to happen every time - Kyouko the darwinist sacrificing herself in a doomed attempt to save Sayaka isn't something you would predict if you hadn't seen it before.
Most of the timelines we see, everyone is NOT in a group because people keep dying off, witching, or trying to kill each other. The only time they were all together, Mami tried to kill everyone. Keeping everyone alive and sane is an almost insurmountable task on its own, let alone doing that while preventing Madoka from contracting AND killing walmartnight.
And finally, Homura has zero social skills so she essentially can't convince a single person to do what's in their best interest.
Basically you're making way too many assumptions.