Rebuild

Why is everyone an asshole to him? Misato was encouraging Shinji to do whatever he wanted in 2.22 and now treats him like shit for whatever he did. Also, I thought Kaworu stopped Shinji before he could initiate third impact.

Other urls found in this thread:

gwern.net/docs/eva/2010-crc).
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

because plot would fall apart otherwise

Stop being a plotfag and start looking at the themes of the art you consume. It doesn't matter how character X goes from A to B, what matters is why the author would make X go from A to B. What does it all mean? The plot making logical sense is only the cherry on top. 3.33 is just an anti-power fantasy, both for Shinji and the audience, all of its elements contribute to that.
I'm not saying you should like it, I personally prefer it when both the plot and themes are hermetic and coherent (like in NGE), but that's just not the case with the Rebuilds.

I’m not saying I don’t like it ,I do, but it seemed inconsistent to me when I rewatched the rebuilds today.

>art
>consume

>It doesn't matter how character X goes from A to B, what matters is why the author would make X go from A to B
Postmodernism is cancer.

Inconsistent is putting it mildly:
>Shinji decides to blow up the world to save The Girl
>But then he's stopped by The Guy
>But then it turns out nothing was stopped and the world blew up anyway
>But turns out he didn't save the Girl anyway
>But now he's gone for 15 years but not with the girl
>But then he's back but not the girl
>But then it turns out the girl was there all along
>But then it turns out she's not really the girl
>But then it turns out he prefers the guy that kept him from saving the girl and doesn't care about the girl anymore
>But then decides to undo all the mess above so he doesn't get the guy either
>But then it turns out maybe there's a chance the girl was there all along
>But doesn't matter because he's probably going to be into the angry bitch now.
>Oh and the world got fucked for like the 6th time now, with another 4 impacts coming if the next move ever comes out.
Only theme I see, is kick shinji, and when he's down keep kicking him, and if shit stops making sense, kick him some more.

Yes, it's a shame it had to be like that, but that's what we got.
If you are interested in the "why" from a creative standpoint, I recommend reading the interviews contained in Evangelion 1.0 complete records collection and Evangelion 2.0 complete records collection (gwern.net/docs/eva/2010-crc). From them it seems that Anno wanted to do something different from NGE but didn't know how to go about it, so he relegated a lot of stuff to others (people with different ideas amongst themselves as to what the Rebuilds should be) and then tried to put it all together in a weird mesh. Anno really lets the opinion of others get to him, reading about Mari's creation after the public reaction to 1.0 is quite something. His position as both a producer and director affected the Rebuilds as well.
It's good that he took a break with Shin Godzilla, which turned out to be great, so maybe 3.0+1.0 will be a more coherent/cohesive film.

You said earlier about 3.33 that it’s really an anti-power fantasy. Could you elaborate on that? To me, 3.33 shows us that Shinji really does want to pilot Eva all along.

When you put it like that, it sounds like an accurate depiction of real life.
Everything goes to shit no matter how hard you try, brief happiness will ultimately be ruined and people are inconsistent, rude, and not worth your time or effort.

>Anno really lets the opinion of others get to him
And yet he's got the nerv to call out young people for not having enough mojo and not standing up for themselves. How disgusting.

3.33 was awfully written

B-but it was awful ironically. You just didn't get it.

>It's good that he took a break with Shin Godzilla
I'm not in the "user is a hack" crowd, Like you said, he can make pretty great stuff, but they really dropped the ball with rebuild, and I don't see how they climb out the hole they dug themselves into. It will look and sound great, but I have no faith on anything beyond those two things.
>And yet he's got the nerv to call out young people for not having enough mojo and not standing up for themselves. How disgusting.
He admits that the things he likes the least are those that remind him the most of him

Misato being a gigantic hypocrite in 3.33 is probably the worst part of the movie.

Also, it's that hard to just explain to shinji what the fuck happened during his coma?

So he's an old man still acting like he hit puberty a week ago. And here I thought he was only being dramatic when he said something similar about himself.

Why did Misato take so long to attack Nerv HQ? You would think getting Shinji would be a top priority.

>So he's an old man still acting like he hit puberty a week ago?
Basically, even his wife thinks so

>To me, 3.33 shows us that Shinji really does want to pilot Eva all along
Indeed, but he does so regardless of what is good for everyone, even if he thinks that he is doing good and he means no harm with his actions. This is the main idea/concept 3.0 opposes, that of acting without thinking things through and just "getting in the robot" (another form of escapism, both for Shinji and the audience, mainly the audience. It's a polar opposite of Shinji's inaction in NGE). At the end of the film he pulls the spears despite everyone advising against it because he wants to solve everything and be absolved of his past mistakes, showing that he hasn't learnt a thing.
I imagine 3.0+1.0 will center around this particular form of escapism and redeem the Rebuilds in the eyes of many, but who knows. Maybe I'm just desperate because of how much I like Anno, but I think there are enough elements in 2.0 and 3.0 to argue that something like what I'm saying was the intent of the Rebuilds.

>I don't see how they climb out the hole they dug themselves into. It will look and sound great, but I have no faith on anything beyond those two things.
I also have a lot of doubts and I think 3.0+1.0 is more likely to be an ok movie than it is to be a great one, but at this stage the only thing one can do is hope for the best. I think Anno is talented enough to pull a miracle and redeem the Rebuilds.

>redeem the Rebuilds in the eyes of many
good luck with that
>Maybe I'm just desperate because of how much I like Anno
Liking Anno's other work and recognizing he messed up with this one are not in conflict with one another, if anything it's a disservice to his best work when you try to prop up his failures as if they were on part with them.

...

>At the end of the film he pulls the spears despite everyone advising against it because he wants to solve everything and be absolved of his past mistakes, showing that he hasn't learnt a thing.
Maybe they should've said WHY. Kaworu said pulling them out would fix everything, then suddenly covers his face only saying "don't do it", and of course Shinji wouldn't give a shit about what Asuka was saying at that time.

Kaworu tried to explain himself, he wasn't very effective at it because he was just as shocked and couldn't speak properly (you could call this poor writing, it certainly isn't the best writing, but there's an explanation), but Shinji refused to listen and got punished due to his careless action. I think from a thematic standpoint, everything makes sense. 3.0 could have had a better plot, that's for sure, but I don't think calling it a bad or terrible movie is fair either.

Because of shinji, the events after started the apocalypse.
Plus the wunder needed some one to blame and it is much easier to blame some one you can't reach or punish.
14 years they were told that shinji started it all, that's why they hate him.
Wunder and the crew are terrible people because they were the ones that gave him that weapon, told him to fight, and when he did they got mad at him for it. Since he did it the wrong way.
Problem with this is shinji had no idea what he was doing was a bad idea. Thanks to Nerv keeping secrets everyone looked stupid. Since they couldn't move forward by blaming the nerv crew they chose shinji to blame, because it's easy that way.
Everyone in that movie are terrible people.

>you could call this poor writing, it certainly isn't the best writing, but there's an explanation
Yeah but they could have pulled out a more desperate shinji. Wanting to fix things, not listening because he is so desperate to fix things that he would ignore kaworu any ways. Like a stint of insanity could have taken over shinji.

So he's a giant hypocrite
Does he acknowledge that at least?
I mean it takes one person to find a problem, and in Anno's case, it takes another person to solve it.

I like your meta reading of where Rebuild could go because yeah, in a way, Shinji manning up in 2.0 and constantly wanting to get in the fucking robot™ seem like direct responses to the reputation he's built over the years. But theres a couple issues there.
One is that that's purely extratextual. Intertextually what's there to be engaged with?
By the end of NGE and before EoE you couldn't quite say what the movie would be like but you knew the pieces that were set up and the forces that were to clash. What do we have to work with heading into 4.0? Seele's gone, with out even putting a fight. We don't know if there's much of a civilization there, much less a gathering army. Did the outcome in 3.0 work in favor of Gendo or against him? Is Nerv a threat? With their pilots gone seems like Nerv's basically two old guys at this point. Do they have a legion of faceless minions. What motivation do the characters have?What's is it all building up to? Another impact? we've gotten plenty of those, they've kinda lost their 'impact'. So maybe something bigger? Are we seriously getting a Evil Space King kind of thing? People call it being a plotfag but a story has to work on this level before doing stuff on top of it. it doesn't have to be clear or neat (god knows NGE isn't) but it hast to work on this level before doing something else.
And it all goes back to a point I've always liked and relates a bit to what you mentioned.
Hamlet in Othello would see Iago coming a mile away. And Othello in Hamlet would just go and kill Claudius without all that self doubt, they'd break each other's plays.
Shinji's more courageous than people give him credit for, but him Becoming an active doer starting with 2.0 and through 3.0 is kind of what broke Rebuild.

>So he's a giant hypocrite
>Does he acknowledge that at least?
A bit of both

I honestly agree with you in regards to the issues of the plot of 3.0. However, I don't think they are critical enough to completely ruin the Rebuilds (even ignoring all that I've said, the films have a very strong presentation that shouldn't be overlooked, as is often the case with the Rebuilds). I am fond of the Rebuilds and I would like for people to see the good that I see in them, but yes, I understand their numerous faults and I can't blame anyone for disliking them.

>Most author-centric reading since god himself sent the bible down to earth

>consumption of art as somewhat positive statement of fact
>Postmodernism

Not too sure 'bout that, Guv'nor

Misato was cheering Shinji on in the last movie. Why's she so cold to him now?
At the end of Evangelion 2.0, Misato was cheering Shinji on and telling him to pursue his own desires... before she grasped the terrible consequences that would result. Once it was clear that Shinji's actions had triggered another Impact, and stirred Misato's own terrible memories of the Second ("Wings?! Just like fifteen years ago!"), her attitude visibly changed.
Misato has subsequently had to deal with fourteen years of fallout, and psychologically compensate for, perhaps, feeling partly responsible for it all (by way of being initially "complicit"). Furthermore, she now has a crew to captain, and she cannot show signs of sentiment or weakness. Shinji's status is essentially that of a war criminal; Misato cannot simply go back to treating him as her surrogate son.

mari was the one that convinced shinji to get in the fucking robot though
she's more responsible than misato

it's how anno feels about the rebuilds

thing is, it makes for a dull and incoherent film
I don't give a fuck about anno's depression
he already did that in the original eva now it's just stupid

I actually enjoyed that film, though, mostly for the new world building
then subsequently lost interest when I realized neither anno nor anybody else is actually interested in doing anything with it

Yeah but she doesn't count as a character, she's a mascot. Her dealing with the consequences of what she did would give her something beyond a gimmick, This is rebuild, we can't have that. Instead let's haver her give everyone nicknames.

>mfw everyone i knew hated Shinji for being indecisive
>raising up NGE always ended up being a ragefest
>after 3.33, it's everyone raging in support of Shinji
I'm glad we all angrily have our boy's back.

>>mfw everyone i knew hated Shinji for being indecisive
you had bad friends

Because the rebuilds make Guilty Crown look like a perfectly consistent masterpiece.

This.

IT SUBVERTED EXPECTATIONS

Isn’t that just bad writing actually?

>Misato was encouraging Shinji to do whatever he wanted in 2.22 and now treats him like shit for whatever he did.

The difference between childhood and adulthood.