How do we fix 3D anime?
One might say we are almost there, but it still lacks something.
After watching Houseki no Kuni I'd say more frames are needed. 12 fps just isn't enough and isn't really justified since it's 3D and, let's be honest" no Pixar tier quality.
What do you propose Sup Forums?
Infini-T Force was good (most of the time).
Etotama was good.
All that needs to happen is that the anime that use it well are more popular.
Higher FPS and they need to decide for which look they want to go.
is really flat you almost wouldn't see it's 3D if you'd only look at a screenshot. In knights of Sedonia everything is more plastic, you can see the plasticity even in a still image. In HnK I had the feeling they couldn't really decide between the two. There are some scenes that look flat while in others you really see the 3D aspect.
Both styles can look really good.
But mixed it's a little weird sometimes.
I liked the mix in HnK, remind me of the movie Blame!
I thought backgrounds felt more alive in 2D. Felt like the best of two worlds
The way I see it, studio have always tried to imitate 2D with 3D but never really got it right. because the shading wasn't good, because the animations weren't good. I think they're getting better and better though.
Pop Team Epic already fixed it.
Anime it all deliberately with no uncanny floaty mocap, better more flexible rigs and not being afraid to break them
If they're gonna keep the fps low may as well smear, stretch and squash to sell the illusion like 2D anime does
Do what theses guys are doing youtube.com
and also abandon nausea inducing exaggerated camera movements 3DCG animators love to overuse.
Or better yet, stop using 3DCG altogether.
I found Berserk perfectly acceptable for an animated story that I didn't pay any money to watch. Fight me.
We don't. We stop making it because it's fucking shit.
THIS. CG anime will always be shit, no matter how well produced it may be.
Track movements of cute idols
HnK fucking rocked
...
With that kind of mentality anime would never have moved on from this
youtube.com
Stay mad you retard
What a compelling argument.
What 3D anime needs is 2D animators experienced enough to lay the foundations as much as newcomers willing to try new techniques, which HnK both had.
This, houseki no kuni is garbage and looked like ass compared to the hand drawn PV from years ago. Also dat janky ass running animations.
This.
Berserk had high frames. Big reason why it looked so shit.
japan attempts to use smears in 3d and fucks up, my sides its like a high school kid made this.
Still, it looks cheap, half baked and uncanny.
Evolution is indeed very nice when it brings improvements. 3DCG doesn't.
>people ITT actually defending CGI
I don't even
Try again
Take a look at the Wakfu series and the Dofus movie. They are actually very well made and actually pretty interesting / funny for cartoons. Kindda remind me of Avatar.
>hand drawn PV from years ago
found the master scholar
Left looks much better. Right is sterile and the color palette looks trash.
The cat looks pretty good indeed.
I feel like a big part of Infini-T being good was because of some tokusatsu influence in the way the fights where choreographed.
I'm not sure because I dont actually know much about tokusatsu but it seemed that way to me.
shinsha's mercury and the caustics look terrible in the hand drawn version. it deliberately emulates the manga but as a long form series it would have crashed hard because it doesn't hold up
if you think that manga promotion looks better and would fit better than what we got, then you're either shitposting or downright retarded. either way you're objectively wrong
Hand-drawn animation has at least a hundred years of development behind, 3D is new in comparison and is continuing to develop. 3D brings spatial improvements and it is foolish to cut it off just because it is still awkward.
so is there any cg at all that the hipster contrarians and hardline traditionalists of Sup Forums think looks good?
>CG
>looking good
>ever
You remind me that I saw Coco at the theater before watching the last episode of Houseki No Kuni last night. And damn the transition was brutal. Pixar's artists are fucking monsters.
Though I think that HnK is actually not bad for a 3D anime, it fits the gem thematic pretty well.
Houseki no Kuni
Some scenes from sekaisuru Kado, the last episode in particular.
That's about it. Where my hipster contrarian traditionalist ass is concerned anyways.
Cat Shit One, the new Starship Troopers and Biohazard films, Ajin. Even Sidonia wasn't so bad around the second season, when all the framerate mistakes were cleaned up. I'd even say gdgd and Tesagure were appropriate uses of CG, quality notwithstanding.
Houseki no Kuni works for it's gem theme
Left looks so fucking washed out.
only reddit hates cgi
HnK is just skewing people's perception, look at it side by side with Berserk and you'll see how terrible CGI is.
An insult to life it's self.
You say that like drawn animation has never been phoned in.
Berserk is just skewing yout perception, look at it side by side with HnK and you'll see how good CGI is.
Japs just need to learn to animate in 3d better and realize that what works for 2d doesn't always work for 3d. For instance characters standing still between dialogue looks fine in 2d, but looks really awkward in 3d.
>global illumination
>subdivision surfaces
>realistic hair and cloth simulation
>volume-preserving deformations (flesh is incompressible, if you poke your cheek, it bulges around the finger)
These are all already solved problems btw, and you don’t even need a render farm. A single high end workstation can already render it in real time at close to pixar quality (because this is literally what pixar does). It’s really just that japan is 20 years behind in anything technology.
Houseki was really lucky with the gem hairs. Polygon animations for hair looks really retarded in any other context, which is why FF13+ looks so much better than any other nip game.
>For instance characters standing still between dialogue looks fine in 2d
Why is that though? Is it just because people aren't used to CG so they don't look past the budget saving shortcuts like they do for 2D?
Unnatural valley. When everything except animation is very detailed, the animation looks even jankier by comparison.
But backgrounds in 2D anime are generally more detailed than the actual animation, it's a standard thing.
They need to let go of the anime style and animation techniques which is an issue when everything is adaptations or from anime studios. They're trying to retrofit anime into CG, while the west developed animation designs and techniques built around CG. Pixar has always worked with CG, like these curve based designs in their first short before poly modeling became common place, to creating a movie about toys because rendering at the time always looked plastic.
I think there's a definite "style" to 3D cartoons and you can see them blend together, similar to the "anime style", and its there because it works with the medium. The west didn't set out to create systems that replicated the quirks of 2D as closely as possible down to similating always flat faces, outlines, 2D shading and limiting their animation, instead focused on simply creating expressive and exaggerated 3D shapes that fit the medium and using the advanced rendering tools and computing of CG to their advantage.
Don't reinvented the 2D wheel in 3D, make a 3D wheel.
>generally
Aren't many cases of detailed scenery outside pan shots. And those edge cases are usually paired with higher-detail characters and animation, giving a 'high fidelity moment' which stands outside the rest.
>that disgusting motion blur on the rod when she gets up
I'll stick with HnK's CG, thanks. All jokes aside, you could have found a better example of good animation.
R-remember me?
Literally who?
>12fps
do your research boi
They need to stop trying to imitate 2D through 3D for starters.
>Polygon animations for hair looks really retarded in any other context
Explain further.
Reminder he was saying that about the nasty zombie bodies in the tech demo, not the tech itself.
looks like the homo in your webm has parkinsons or something
this would've been better if the framerate was high
when it's video game tier
We don't need to "fix" it. We let it evolve. 3D is the new frontier of anime, and that's why talented creators like Orange and Tatsuki are making such bold, interesting works with it. We're already on the right path, just let these people explore. The worst thing you could do now is try to standardize it and subject it to the same constraining batch of visual tropes that 2D is now consigned to.
I can't stand people whose only qualification for anime is "it has to be really fluid high frame rate and lots of details!" I have no time for people that can't appreciate minimalism, or visual cues and suggestion in anime, and dismiss good storytelling, atmosphere, and world design if the "animation" isn't "good" enough, by their own personal subjective beliefs of what is "objectively" good (usually along the lines of something trite like REDLINE or Naruto fight scenes)
Illustrations will NEVER be replaced with models. CG still has a bunch of unseen applications and we've only just begun realizing it's potential. In the meantime, careful use will pass on non-human objects and characters.
What annoys me the most about HnK is that it isn't better in 2D, even if the 3D annoys me.
Just render more frames, like holy fuck.
Still 2d is just a drawing. But with 3d we expect to see at least minor movements, so it kind of throws us off, especially when other things in the scene are moving.
and I can't stand people like you
I don't need to hear your autistic arguments, it looks like shit; stop defending it you fucking retard.
And then you wonder why people aren't buying the BDs and watching disney crap
Mhm, see, you don't strike me as a very mature anime viewer. I don't suspect you'd be capable of every having a particularly fulfilling discussion about anime in any context other than action seasons and tired seasonal retreads.
>why don't people like what i like? my taste is superior, after all
no, fuck off
Ah, but you're projecting your own beliefs. You're the one who tightly constrains his "likes" to tepid, uninspired rehashings on no account other than your inexperienced biases of what constitutes "good animation".
Go away gem kemonomeme niggers
yes please, spare me from your paragraph long autistic rants trying to justify a piece of shit to be equal to a nugget of gold
>gemshit
>good
no
A paragraph that scarcely stretches to just two lines is too much for you to digest? I see I'm not wrong that some people just have very little cognitive ability to appreciate animation beyond the bare minimum tired action schlock.
Gantz:O
Ghost in the Shell: Innocence
Any of the well done CG PreCure
Cat Shit One
Gon
One Piece: Mugiwara Chase
Nichijou (MOST of the well-animated bits were done with CGI, but since KyoAni's got good cash practices they're able to cover it up with good 2d animators)
Space Pirate Captain Harlock
We convince the fake anime elitists that there's nothing wrong with them.
That's impossible though so it will never happen.
>dude you need to totally fit my strawman i built to vallidate my arguments
as i said, fuck off
>as i said, fuck off
See, my initial assertion was quite correct. You aren't a very experienced or intellectual viewer and I can see you're just not capable of any proper discussion of animation, and rather than defend yourself you've simply resorted to such pointless, impotent barbs as "fuck off". Do you really think such low effort hostility will actually result in the opposition you can't compete with leaving the conversation? Rather it only shows you aren't equipped to participate to begin with.
BBK BRNK looked okay sometimes.
HnK looks good exactly because it's half framerate. If it was full 24 it'd be shit.
Both Show by Rock and that zodiac anime did it right, gembutts was ok but quality wise it's just arpeggio rehash with more glow, so as always the key to making better 3D CGI is proper usage of 2D drawings.
I don't recall this being a problem with HnK which Is probably why people hold it in high regard as far as CGI is concerned.
Does it really run at 12 fps?
I thought that was a meme
>How do we fix 3D anime?
With huge amounts of money. Worked wonders for Gantz:O
Left looks better with the exception of the first pic.
It's called Limited Animation™
It varies, if some slow scene has lots of faces with 2d animation they tend to be 8 fps, then battle sequences are 24
It's just how traditional animation is constructed. It's composited at 24 fps of course, but most of the key animation is around 12.
Low fps is a necessary method to mask crappy body mechanics.
3D is seen by anime producers as a way to save on animators. The problem is good 3D is anything but cheap, you need to either use motion capture or hire animators who know how to recreate body movement and they won't accept a minimum wage.
All of this.
That's entirely false though.
>HnK looks good
it doesn't
I also thought that it looks good, but of course, "looks good" in completely subjective.
Exactly. The usual number of frame doesn't cut it in a 3D anime no matter how well animated it is.
It's on purpose. He's not exactly supposed to look sane and healthy in this scene.
3DCG isn't anime.
fuck off
Why 3D anime can be really uncanny when Game's in engin cut scenes don't?
is it just the little details, like the characters breathing and blinking?
Isn't that what Infini-T Force did? The thing is that doing that style of 3D in Japan won't sell.
>Game's in engin cut scenes don't
do you even into wnglish language, you dip?
and games can be uncanny too, they often are
Stop trying to make it look like 2D
youtu.be
This looks fucking amazing and there's because it doesn't try to be 2D, it fully embraces the 3DCG and that's what 3DCG should do