What went wrong? how dis they miss the point of what made DB special so badly?

what went wrong? how dis they miss the point of what made DB special so badly?

Other urls found in this thread:



I just dislike the art change, don't mind the rest. Everyone lost a bunch of gains.

The thing I can't stand about Super most is the random power ups. Now Z had it's fair share of them but most of them were explained, even if it was dumb as hell. In Super characters will just get magically get stronger for no reason and the show expects you to go with it.

Admittedly this started with Battle of Gods - Vegeta getting magically stronger by anger was bullshit and was never a thing outside of either triggering a transformation or you were Gohan. Now in Super everyone does and Trunks abuses the hell out of it during his arc.

They tried to have a "serious" show and had a horrible power creep starting with Z. They really missed the point as dragon ball was all about adventures, brofisting with bros, fun and comedy, but once the childhood arc was over, every story arc become all about saving the world from an evil being with lots of forms that can effortlessly destroy the world if they wanted

the frieza saga was the best of the whole show

>They tried to have a "serious" show and had a horrible power creep starting with Z

t. hasn't seen Dragon Ball. That started way before Z. No, Super's problem is much like GT's in that it tries to be Dragon Ball and fails. There is zero tension or drama; characters, especially Goku, don't take even world ending situations seriously. And worst of all the jokes are horrible. In comparison Dragon Ball was much more serious than Super was and also had better humor.

Because they know that no matter how lazy of a cashgrab they make it, dumb spics will always watch and defend it out of nostalgia.

I would call running away from everybody: the show a good saga. It was either that, or goku and vegeta shitwrecking everybody else as usual plus huge powercreeps courtesy of zenkais and super saiyajin.

Dragon ball was mostly an adventure, pretty much the only Z tier serious moments were taopaipai during the red ribbon saga and the demon king piccolo saga, even the piccolo jr. saga that ended it all wasn't as serious as his dad's arc. Meanwhile, Z was treating every new story arc as a super serious shit that has the fate of the planet/universe at risk

wouldn't call

Super and GT have a similar problem in that they're too afraid to go too long without Goku in spotlight - look at the tournament of power, almost every episode and battle involves Goku in some way while most of the other fighters get barely any screentime. Compare it to Z where Goku spent most arcs away from the action (Dead in the Saiyan Saga, Travelling to Namek/recovering from the Ginyu fight in the Freeza arc, sick from the heart virus in the Cell arc, dead for half the Buu arc) hell even the filler wasn't afraid to happen without Goku like in the Garlic Jr. arc. Z understood that Goku was one of the strongest fighters and keeping him away from weaker enemies kept the tension in place and left the fights interesting while in comparison in Super Goku is always in every episodes and always has to fight everyone so he comes off looking way more weak and incompetent than he should.

this guy gets it
you don't, the show was about adventure sure but it always had serious moments. the reason they even went to namek is to find the dragon balls and havr an adventure

The starting point was an adventure, but almost immediately become yet another serious struggle for survival with huge risks as without said dragon balls, everybody was fucked on earth and they also had to deal with in comparison overpowered assholes. That's more a hide and seek or die story arc than an adventure arc. Even GT had more adventure-ish story arcs than Z

they simply get a stronger villain everytime, so they have to cut off all the characters who have normal levels of power
only sayans can get the powerups necessary to win, so it's predictable how it will end
also any sort of damage/death is pointless since there are a trillion different dragon balls that can do everything
at the beginning it was 1 wish only and no double resurrection, that could keep a bit of suspense. also a lot of character were in the same tier of power and even if goku was often stronger it wasnt in another dimension

>Vegeta getting magically stronger by anger was bullshit and was never a thing outside all the time were it was a thing but those don't count because I said so.

Every time a character has gotten stronger by anger it was merely the anger triggering some other form of power up - usually a transformation or while recovering from a Zenkai boost. Gohan was unique in that getting mad let him him tap into his potential that he was usually too scared to unleash. If you can point out an occasion in DB/Z where a character got stronger purely because they were mad alone feel free to point it out.

literally all sayan powerups (ssj3 aside which was actually disappointing) are linked to rage

My point is that I'm okay with characters getting stronger by being angry if that anger gives them another reason to power up, like awakening a transformation. It's still a weak reason but at least its something, in Super a character just gets mad and suddenly they're 10x stronger.

dont think im defending super, it's utter shit
but since original db emotions always had a role in powerups, for gohan especially so, but anyone would get that little plus when triggered. of course a 10x is bs but was enough to get a critical or at least show off a bit

Above you see an anime which doesn't take itself all to seriously but has mature art with a story full of tension, high stakes and even some dramatic moments every now and then. The animation wasn't the best at some times looking at you,
Cell saga and the fights dragged out for ridiculous amounts of time but they still did meet the expectations of the viewers most of the time. Goku was barely even in the story for huge chunks of the timespan and while he did take over a really important part either way other characters like Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo, Gohan and Gotenks had their time to shine and to deliver legit epic moments.

Below you see a show made for kids. The art is shiny, bright and blood is barely existent even if the characters have deep holes inside their chests. There is barely any tension because the characters make stupid jokes every few seconds and if they don't see a threat or a serious situation why should we as viewers. Logic while not all that abundant in this franchise at all has completely been droped to make room for even more jokes and fanservice. Many people give Super credit for reintroducing old characters who were formerly outclassed by miles but have now a relevant part in the story. This however isn't even true in the slightest since it's the Goku show, now more than ever before. He gets at least 70% of the screentime while most of the rest goes to Vegeta. The others have to deal with what's left, if anything at all. Last but not least this show feeds of its nostalgia on more than just the obvious ways. Said reintroduced characters and even the main cast like Vegeta and Goku often tend to mimic their iconic moments from DBZ to cash in on those feelings from the past.

Yeah, the "let's wait for Goku's power level to handle things" dynamic has been the biggest issue with DBZ since the beginning.

IMO it's because they keep cranking up the unlocked potential every time they hit a ceiling.

I mean...just write around it, damn. There are better ways to inject drama than "OH NO, A NEW POWER LEVEL, BETTER PULL ANOTHER TRANSFORMATION OUT OF MY ASS".

And to be fair, it isn't like Z didn't do something like this too but at least there whenever someone went beyond, it felt like they shouldn't have been there. That they stumbled on something latent and unknown.

These days you turn a corner and find a new maximum. It just happens way too frequently and as a catch-all answer.

But it was handled right. If you didn't shit your pants along with the Z-Fighters when they were slaughtered by Nappa then you had no heart. It was a similar situation with the Ginyus at Namek. Goku barely did anything in the Cell saga except teleporting a bomb away and the Buu saga while arguably being the worst of them all handled him the best somehow. Super is a whole other story though

>These days you turn a corner and find a new maximum. It just happens way too frequently and as a catch-all answer.
Greed intensified. They have to market another form every few months.

Goku fighting Freeza before hitting SS. "I don't care if you're a million times stronger than me blah blah" combos him, tosses him, Kamehameha. Sure it did next to nothing but his strength definitely increased for a moment due to anger.

Maybe it's because I've grown older and it's become easier to predict how the formula for a shounen normally follows, but I think the main difference between what I liked about then and now is that there's no suspense. It's been hard to invest in this tournament arc when the only threat presented to us is in form of Jiren and Toppo. Before them you had the villains of the week but it all felt like filler simply because of how strong Universe 7 is portrayed. I'm not gripped because the main players of U7 weren't going to be touched until the last few fighters, and it's just felt like a drag to get to this point.


It's cause Super is too afraid to be different and it just feels like it's going thru the motions of being Dragonball although they did saiyan girls who can achieve SSJ it's written horribly and had a lot of backlash
GT is liked for being different and having interesting ideas basically taking things and moving forward but the execution and overall writing was shit

this. Super is a uninspired piece of garbage that feeds on nostalgia kids instead of trying to do anything new or good

>if the characters don't see a threat why should we
I remember how I thought that Black and Zamasu were the real first threats in a long time but then Goku didin't even bother to remember the fucking Senzus and from there on out I couldn't take the arc seriously anymore. Don't even want to talk about the ridiculous stuff that happened after (spirit genkidama rage justice sword asspullery)

Because Super is literally just a rehash of anything that generated even mild hype in Dragon Ball/DBZ. Mafuba, Vegeta's Final Flash, Spirit Bomb, Kale being Broly, Anilasi being Hatchyiack/Janemba, Future Trunks, the list goes on and on. It is entirely meant to appeal to nostalgia and has absolutely nothing to offer on its own merits. If this was an alternate universe where Super was first iteration of DB, it would be universally shat on.

>Implying that DBZ was good in the first place

Hipster get out.


I know. Z era dragonball really dropped the ball on the dirty gags that made early dragonball good.

It's almost right, it was the best after the Saiyan arc

I don't watch Super anymore. Did that gif really happen?

I dropped Super around episode 20. I hear the memes are good.

Any good fights to watch?

The last episode looked fucking amazing, the fights were pretty hype. Vegito vs Zamasu is pretty good too

>Vegito vs Zamasu

Watching this now. Why does Trunks have Blue hair? He went SS God? Is this Future Trunks? The Hell?

Blue looks so shit compared to the original golden hair. I will never forgive them for the stupid recolors.

It's called Super Saiyan Anger. I just call it Sueper Saiyan. And yes, it's Future Trunks. His hair color is a retcon. Just try to ignore all the weird shit

Just you wait user, Vegeta's getting a new form soon that will return Super Saiyan to its former glory

>Muh spics

Found the taco.

>Super Saiyan Anger

I hope you're kidding. I really hope you're kidding.

> His hair color is a retcon

Jesus Christ.

Animation looks pretty good though. Potara now being an hour is pretty lame IMO. If it's reversible they should just fuse every time they face a big opponent.

Senzu Beans piss me off as usual.

>Just try to ignore all the weird shit
Yes, that's exactly the mind setting you need to have while going into an episode. Fucking ridiculous but it does help, this show is actually mildly enjoyable when you turn off your brain completely.

Yes, that gif did really happen. It's just the tip of the iceberg, trust me.

>I hope you're kidding. I really hope you're kidding.
I am absolutely not kidding and I wish I was. Trunks is motherfucking insufferable in that arc.


You don't like Trunks' special new form, user?

Super sounds like it could be fun to watch with Sup Forums, instead of based on its own merit. If I wasn't so far behind I'd jump in on the shitposting.

Can I just watch the next episode?

I know U7 is in a tournament to determine the universe being erased, Jiren is OP, Goku has Ultra Instinct and everyone but Jiren's team has finally been BTFO.

Is Toriyama involved in this at all? I thought the Trunks stuff was a meme.

Is Gohan Blanco real too?

>I know U7 is in a tournament to determine the universe being erased, Jiren is OP, Goku has Ultra Instinct and everyone but Jiren's team has finally been BTFO.
If you get all that then next episode shouldn't be hard to follow.

TECHNICALLY, but it's not like he gives a shit. The manga is still not great because Super itself is shit, but it's better if you're looking for a more cohesive story. And no, fucking Blanco is not real.

Oh okay. I really wasn't sure if Gohan got a new white hair transformation or some bullshit.

Cool. No character motivations or big picture stuff I need to understand?

You mean horribly mishandling the translations/names and a bunch of burgers trying to pinch out of turd with their grunting and terrible acting?

>No character motivations or big picture stuff I need to understand?
HAHAHAHA, in Super? Nope. Goku's motivation is "I want 2 be STRONK", Vegeta's is "I MUST SURPASS KAKAROTTO", Gohan is irrelevant, Freeza wants the Super Dragon Balls to overthrow Zeno, 17 wants the Super Dragon Balls to wish for a fucking boat, the Pride Troopers are bland and have no character. In the manga Jiren has some super secret special wish that he wants but it's probably something retarded.

If you just want to shitpost along with Sup Forums then why the hell not. There are some actual solid episodes in the tournament, just catch up to them and you'll be good. The one where Goku turns UI, the two episodes with Kefla and the most recent Vegeta episode are all worth watching, the rest not so much sadly

If he likes OG DB characters the Roshi episode might be worth a view, that was one of my personal favorites

>17 wants the Super Dragon Balls to wish for a fucking boat

Isn't 17 dead? Even if he wasn't, wouldn't he be a scrub?

I'll probably have to Wiki this stuff. Super sounds crazy.

Also, is this Future Trunks the Future Trunks who came back and warned about Cell, or is it Future Trunks as in main timeline future Trunks?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm curious, but not curious enough to watch 120 episodes

Cool, I'll check those out. Where can I read about the Mexican memes e.g. Gohan Blanco? I just don't get it

>Isn't 17 dead? Even if he wasn't, wouldn't he be a scrub?
Nope, he got wished back after the Earth exploded and then gave Goku's Spirit Bomb ki to kill Kid Buu. And you would think so, but the years of fighting poachers have made it so he can fight on par with Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

>Also, is this Future Trunks the Future Trunks who came back and warned about Cell




They were technically worth watching but I just never managed to get over the fact that Roshi just doesn't belong there, considering logic and all. He was fun to watch and had actual moments of importance compared to the other humans but he just really really didn't belong there if we're real

>but the years of fighting poachers have made it so he can fight on par with Super Saiyan Blue Goku

Still laughing after reading this. I won't even ask any more questions.

Literally have to turn my brain off.

The fact that he was able to beat someone who could have potentially been an issue for Goku and Vegeta was borderline autistic. They should have allowed to him to Mafuba one or two mid-tiers and then have him get utterly shitstomped by someone broken.

>Literally have to turn my brain off.
The only way to view Super. If you actually think your inner autist will awaken and you'll start screeching.

>hey Toriyama, can we say you were involved in this so we'll get away with everything
>we'll shower you with money
>go ahead

Poachers must have been Super Sayain level threats. Based Poachers.

I see, I see.

Legit Dende tells Goku some shit like "if 17 was still bad he would be dangerous as fuck". How he got to that level by protecting animals and beating up human poachers is something only Toriyama knows.

The thing is that Roshi shouldn't be able to beat anyone there. This is going beyond just powerlevels, it defies all logic. I mean he was far, far weaker than fucking Raditz. I know, I know, the "he trained in secret" meme. Still, normal training shouldn't allow him to progress into standing on equal grounds with Tien and Krillin who went to literal afterlife and/or magic rituals to be where they are. And hell, in this tournament Roshi outclassed both of them by far. I enjoyed to watch it, it just didn't make the slightest bit of sense. Won't even mention how he just randomly spammed the mafuba, a technique that should mean instant death for the user, at least with ki reserves as small as Roshis.

Well to be fair, Toriyama mentioned that Roshi was a lot stronger than he presented in the Saiyan arc. Still not fucking ToP material

I would actually love to see this. How could a random dude end up on the level of a God by protecting animals? 17 probably stopped some alien invasion the Z-fighters never heard about or some shit. Or maybe Old Kai awakened him and since he has infinite Ki, his level shot up to max. Or maybe the animals gave him their combined energy, like a spirit bomb.

Now I'm laughing again. Roshi shouldn't even be able to SEE these fights. Based Toriyama.

user. user, stop. You're...you're THINKING. In a Super thread. user fucking stop it right now or you'll never come back that dark place.

>come back that dark place
Proof. I'm already gone... Save yourself

>Toriyama mentioned that Roshi was a lot stronger than he presented in the Saiyan arc.
How exactly did he mean that? I don't know that quote so I'm curious, did he mean that Roshi trained or did he mean that he himself portrayed him weaker than he actually was? In my opinion the powerlevels were perfect in early DBZ, Roshi was outclassed by miles but that wasn't a bad thing. He's old, it's time for the new generation to shine.

>Dragon ball was mostly an adventure
only the first few chapters

Dragon Ball was mostly tournament arc, big bad, training, repeat

It's too late. I'm already imagining Super Sayain level poachers and Roshi taking a new forbidden form of senzu bean which rapidly increases power but takes years off your life.

Head canon is blaring.


sasuga, muten roshi-sama

>It was stated by Akira Toriyama in Dragon Ball Volume F in relation to Roshi defeating numerous Frieza Soldiers that Master Roshi is “only that strong if he feels like it”.

Dumb as fuck explanation but word of god.

The power skaling gets fucking stupid once they go to Namek. Dragon Ball was tame in comparison.

>Is Toriyama involved in this at all?
He wasn't involved in the creation of SSR Trunks.
He didn't even know it was a thing until the episode aired.

user STOP

so basically he could've kicked in Raditz shit, he just didn't feel like it that day

Is Gohan still the coolest character in the show?

According to Toriyama's dumb ass, yes.

Roshi was outclassed by Tenshinhan in fucking Dragonball. He didn't happen to fight some poachers in the meantime did he?

Don't know, you tell me

He might have, but they weren't on the same level as the poachers 17 fought.

Sure user

Didn't Mr.Popo canonically had a power level comparable to Raditz, too?

I don't think he's as strong as Raditz, but he and Kami were both stronger than King Piccolo. He also defended pretty competently against SS Goten and SS Trunks at the same time, although that was filler.

what was actually the point of cyborgs? they have limitless energy, shouldnt they be invincible by default? or they have a maximum output that can be trained? but the output is strictly dependant on their mechanical parts so what would you be training to improve them?

>Popo power level: 1030
>Raditz power level: 1200
This fucking lazy nigger

I don't remember, why wasn't he there when the Nappa and Vegeta arrived? He probably said something like "I'll just be in the way" or something I guess. I mean it was true at the time. And here he is 20 years later, fighting off universal scale enemys while Yamcha is at home rolling around in a puddle of tears and fecal matter.

Not invincible, but they can ki spam without getting tired at all. It happens in the newest episode and one of the GoDs bitches about it being bullshit. Also they don't have mechanical parts per se, they're enhanced on a cellular level, whatever the fuck that means. They're essentially just super-powered humans with built-in ki generators

The best explanation is Toriyama is retarded and power levels have never made sense and never will.

Yes and Popo knows magic, so its help would have been invaluable against Raditz

>power level numbers
Filthy Paco.

if left there long enough to charghe the ki blast in theory they could wipe out the universe then?

A Toyota can have infinite fuel but will never outrace a Ferrari.

My headcanon for that was always that Popo is bound to the palace and can't leave as long as god is still alive. When dead, Popo is able to roam around freely with the objective to search another god/revive the old one. That'd explain why he actively helped out when Piccolo died but didn't give a crap all the other times.