Fate apo

Fate apo
>People die because of piercing wounds
>Hanging gardens have smaller beams than Medea
>Strongest servant jobs against a kid
>Servants are discounted demigods

How can apocrypha even compete with Stay Night?

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>Gay bulge
>Ea
>Unlimited blade works
>Musashi
>Avalon and A+ magic resist
>Worms
>13 lives

Nah, not on his own. 1v1s any of them, sure, but Artoria or Heracles would force him to use Vasavi Shakti, and he'd then lose to the other.

Gilgamesh realizes he's fighting Karna and actually gives a shit so he loses.

>>Strongest servant jobs against a kid
sounds familiar

except in one of the cases they got rushed and the other they went all out and still lost

Servants in Apo were doing crazy shit, the one in stay night were pretty tame

...

...

UBW is canon though

Every route is canon.

>Hanging gardens have smaller beams than Medea
>This is what hagfags believe

To be fair the Servants in Apocrypha only got so far because both Amakusa and Darnic spent sixty years tryharding to minmax the fucking war, plus no high-schoolers.

The only legit good Servants in apocrypha were the Siegfried, Karna and Achilles. Chiron is good and so is Mordred, but she is still discount Arturia.

Vlad had insane territory boost. Avicebron and Semiramis require insane prep time to be a threat.

Jack, Fran, Spartacus, Shakespeare, Astolfo, Amakusa, Jannu and Atalanta all range from mediocre or extremely situational to outright shit.

Main timeline Servants are pretty top tier by comparison, with the exception of the Assassins and Diarmuid

Spartacus has better feats than Lancelot though

>Main timeline Servants are pretty top tier by comparison, with the exception of the Assassins and Diarmuid
Assassins never get to shine because assassin victory is a boring story that isnt worth being told. "A bunch of people fought and assassin showed up and killed the last one standing. The end." Or "a grail war started and assassin with independant action picked off everyone else on the first night before they could bond with their servants. The end." If assassin doesnt get quick-dicked by caster the war is less of a battle royal and more of a competative dodgeball fight. The best move is to never throw the ball because the target will always be prepared to catch or block and someone else will hit you with your defenses down.

>>Strongest servant jobs against a kid

>Saber
>Top tier
>Gets destroyed by a school teacher

where can I buy Illya's hat?

BUT HE WAS A POWERED UP SCHOOL TEACHER

>FSNfags
youtube.com/watch?v=xKq2iUIIc-U

I never understood it. The teacher rekt Arturia and then EMIYA rekt him quite easily in return without mana from a master.

>secondaries

This actually reflects the situation of Apocrypha's world pretty well. Decent catalysts are rare, so most servants will either be weaker or summoned with vague catalysts.

Mordred was from a piece of Round Table. But this worked in Kairi's favor since it prioritized his personality. There are better and stronger knights though. Astolfo is one of the 12 paladins, but we know Orlando and Charlemagne himself would be pretty busted. Chiron's catalyst could probably also summon Hercules and both Jack and Frankenstein are recent and weaker than servants from legends that killed giants or stuff like that.

Meanwhile while Vlad was pretty powerful, being noted to possibly match King Arthur in Britain and Hercules in Greece, its suicidal to summon his hero aspect anywhere else in the world, so the catalyst would be easier to acquire. Semiramis needs insane preparations to be useful.

It's simple really
EMIYA>POWERED UP SCHOOL TEACHER>ARTURIA

how did saber dodge 2 undodgeable instant kill moves

The VN explains that his battle style needs the surprise element. Seeing it once compromises it. In addition to that, Saber has parameters drop under Shirou, so she, who was taken by surprise, was defeated. Shirou, however, witnessed the beatdown, so he was already ready for what to come. Kanshou and Bakuya also boost whoever uses them and weapons traced by Shirou have their "history" included, allowing one to trace skills as well. This effectively allowed him to fight Kuzuki

I don't remember which one is the second you refer to, but high luck can defy fate. Since her luck was higher than Cu Chulain, there is a chance for her to avoid Gae Bolg. Someone like Hector could probably avoid as well with his B-ranked luck.

>Luck stat lol.

Nasu was never that good to begin with.

Rank A Luck, Rank A Instint and plot armor.

Kojiro's swallow move is basically an instant kill if it hits, which it should since it's undodgeable

In the nearest motherland store to you.

She has a pretty good LUK stat. LUK in Fate stats is basically the ability to defy fate, so she managed to escape with 'only' a horrible wound from Gay Bulge instead of being instantly killed.

1st on the stairs, 2nd with a broken sword.

Yes, if he has a proper sword. He can't use it in higher ground, so to get to the same ground as Saber, he ended up getting his sword slightly bent in a move. This caused his technique to have a small opening in it.

Quality of sword trumps technique.

Whore of Assyria cant even down a griffon with her Noble phantasm while a single beam from Medea disintegrates estates.

Apo is really lacking in power except for selected few

Semiramis' beam was EX-ranked and damaged Astolfo through his high Magic Resistance NP. Medea can't even hurt Saber through her Magic Resistance

That was not on temple grounds.

So this is... the power... of A rank instinct...

Yes, and it was still an EX-ranked beam.

>everyone has bullshit gamebreaking hax abilities
>most powerful NP is LOL ENERGY BEAM SWORD because you can't asspull your way out of its functionality

BRAVO Nasu!!!

Siegfrieds beam is stronger than Arturias beam

are you talking about Ea?
Ea is hax too because it does wacky time space shit.
It can also be asspulled out of by Shirou and Saber.
Unless you are claiming that Excalibur > Ea in which case you have brain problems.

Noone cares about Ea, it's never used anyway

> When its True Name is released and the book is read, it becomes possible to break all magecraft close to High-Thaumaturgy

The fact that Astolfo was able to tank the beam proves Medeas beam is superior. Its strictly stated that the magic resist is below High Thaumaturgy.

Saber had A+ after all

Gilgamesh uses it all the time. He just doesn't really like using it on shitters.

>BTFOs Heracles, the greatest hero of greek mythology, with merely a little help from Saber
>BTFOs Gilgamesh, King of Heroes, nearly effortlessly
>BTFOs a corrupted, more powerful version of King Arthur
>BTFOs a fake-priest Executor magus killer combat master
>all as a japanese highschooler who picked up his magic gimmick like a couple days ago
>can execute a Tsubame Gaeshi-like move with like 1/100th of the effort

Is there anything that can stop the japanese highscooler menace? I fear that, should he ever become a servant, he might become the most powerful of them all.

OH MY HOMUNCULUS POWER

The black faction should have just stolen the Egyptian Hittite peace treaty. It's easy enough to get and guarantees Ozymandias, a top tier Rider. He'd have been better than Astolfo at any rate.

They can't. All the good summoning catalysts had already been stolen and lost in all the makeshift failure Holy Grail War copies done since the third Heaven's Feel. All the Apocrypha servants are second string compared to FSN.

What if we create a japanese homunculus who starts going to school?

Why does nobody just get a lump of clay and summon Enkidu?

>Is there anything that can stop the japanese highscooler menace?
You just need another japanese highschooler to do that

Because no one has any divine clay just lying around to use.

It's still unexplained why is can reach EX-rank in Grand Order, but if anything, this seems to be more due to Siegfried activating his dragon properties than the sword itself, since only Gram can be Excalibur-level.

>Inb4 Charlemagne's sword is also EX-ranked because legend says part of the Spear of Destiny was used to build its hilt

It honestly can't be that hard to get a hold of.

Because a lump of clay doesn't have enough of a connection to Enkidu to act as a catalyst. You'd just get whichever Servant you were most compatible with. Imagine summoning Mata Hari. Is there even a worse Servant?

Someone probably stole that first. They should have better luck using an excerpt from the bible of the Seven Plagues, as then they'd summon either Ozymandias or Moses as the only heroes involved there. Medea was summoned using Colchis literature after all.

Angra Mainyu. Weak as fuck and perma-fucks the grail upon death.

He's the worst choice if the corruption is taken into account but he's still stronger than Mata Hari. She's just that weak. And Angra can't be summoned normally. You have to tweak the system first to make Avengers summonable.

Apo(r)crypha help more like it.

Parameters were a mistake

Nah, saber beams were. The moment you give King Arthur laser beams and then add bullshit like Excalibur being made of mankind's wishes and shit like that is the moment the legend behind a hero doesn't matter anymore. It's the sword that cuts anything, make it a slash or something, but don't add some bullshit fanfic lore for it and other things. Due to that other heroes became messes and so did Knights of the Round Table and the Saber Class as a whole.

Look at Lancer Cú Chulain, most of his powers are actually related to his legend, or even Vlad's ability to make a bunch of stakes, since it follows the rule of a Noble Phantasm being crystalization of a hero's deeds. But Balmung, Excalibur and Clarent weren't supposed to beam-shooting swords.

It came from Caladbolg, which made a light light a rainbow that cleaved the tops of three hills when swung. F/SN's early materials made an allusion that Caladbolg was the prototype of Excalibur.

Probably because in GO its being used to save the world which is Excalibur's original purpose.

One of ProtoCalibur's seals is for the battle to be one to save the world after all.

One thing Apoc did good was have Vasavi Shakti not in it's cheese cutter mode all the time; I'm playing Extella right now and the fact Karna uses this thing like a sword bothers the hell out of me, just like with Cu's old animation in FGO.

Pretty sure all that is in FSN as well

Didn't Saber survive because Cu was under the command spell of "fight but don't defeat any of your opponents in your first encounter"?

What kind of retarded command is "fight but don't defeat any of your opponents in your first encounter"? Wouldn't you want to defeat everyone as soon as possible?

I'm pretty sure the game and supplementar material had attributed it to luck
Kirei was fucking around for fun

Kirei didn't want his scout to die thoughtlessly

Kuzuki can pretty much win any close quarters first fight so long as the opponent isn't a massive tank like Herc or Spartacus. The issue is that he's a one trick pony and can't win a second fight or beat people at range.
Medea was no longer buffing Kuzuki at that point. He was just a normal human. Plus EMIYA already knew his fighting style, which ruins his whole gimmick.

They both die though. I guess that still counts as stopping him.

>since only Gram can be Excalibur-level.
Honestly that's probably on the path to a retcon with the hints at a power creep we've been getting for Saber/Excalibur.

>>Strongest servant jobs against a kid
>>Servants are discounted demigods
Just like FSN.

Undodgeable in Fate isn't actually undodgeable, Nasu is full of shit.

>Be Alexander
>The soul of a greek conqueror
>gets killed by a sumerian
>A FUCKING SUMERIAN

WHO'S BRIGHT IDEA WAS IT TO MAKE A SUMERIAN SO FUCKING POWERFUL?

>summoned some random greek slut who was also a catgirl for no apparent reason and she was also dumb as a sack of bricks crying about SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN even though the "children" was nothing but a coagulated mass of murderous malevolence and curses

Ask your local slav community.

Why is Gilgamesh the strongest? Don't know anything about Fate besides what I see in this threads. I'm just here for the shitposting.

Because he is the oldest Hero.
Technically Karna and Arjuna are older, but Gil's story was written/created earlier.

The servants in stay night were not remotely as cool as Apocrypha's, save for Gil

Because he's the "original hero" and apparently acquired all the legendary items from across all of humanity in his travels with Enkidu.
This basically means when he wants to apply himself, he'll pull out whatever bullshit magic item he needs to win instantly.
Nasu wrote his character to be so arrogant that he will never do so, however.

So the oldest Sevants are the strongest?

That's just stupid.

In (very) short, in nasuverse everything slowly gets less powerful, it goes from the age of gods to the age of magic to the age of man. He's the first hero meaning he was around in the most powerful age which means he was the strongest. There's some more bullshit to it but basically that.

The older the legend, the stronger they are. Also Being famous also boost your powerlevel.

Not really, even in his original legend Gilgy was an arrogant prick as a young'un

>So the oldest Sevants are the strongest?

There are some themes of mankind getting weaker over time and whatnot, and most ancient heroes tend to be OP, but it's not that consistent, after all Mary Sueber is relatively modern comparatively and le red man of plot armor is literally from the future yet BTFO's all these legends.

From a story-telling perspective, it's as simple as Nasu deciding they should have an obscure hero be the one to BTFO the most well-known hero, Hercules.

Subjective, EMIYA, Cu and Herc was pretty cool.

>BTFO's all these legends.
He didn't BTFO anyone except herc, whom he killed 7/8 times.
Also he's only that good because of his massive experience from participating in wars over and over.

Some exceptions here and there, some exclusive gimmicks of others may give them an edge, stuff like that exists. The only one so far that really averts this rule is Nikola Tesla, because his actions contributed to such a large scale advancements of civillization that he essentially became a Modern Prometheus and when summoned becomes powerful as fuck. It was comparable to starting a second Age of Gods.

Mostly unrelated but I just want to mention I'm annoyed that there's still no Odysseus in any fate work. Though I also fear they'll make him a dumb trojan horse meme instead of the badass archer or assassin he should be.

>Fate Extra
>Prisma Illya
>Tsukihime
Which should I do next?

Illya if you're into lolis otherwise extra.

Extra if you want to watch the anime, otherwise Tsukihime first.
Do Prillya later.

Enkidu is impossible to summon under most circumstances, because he's normally classified as a noble phantasm rather than a servant. Strange Fake's war was just full of fuckery that allowed it (Pale Rider, too).

Is Gilgamesh being too arrogant to use EA just a convenient excuse for him to lose whenever the story requires it?

I'd say not really since his arrogance and looking down on everyone is a base feature of him. He simply wouldn't have something like Ea if he wasn't too arrogant to use it against the "trash."

Yes. Honestly, I think it's pretty stupid. Most of the fights are pretty desu

I remember reading somehwere years ago that when one of the TM writers was going to start a new project Nasu allowed him to use any Greek hero EXCEPT Odysseus and Europa, which means that they are very important to the overall Nasuverse.