Code geass ultimate question

He is the cart driver right?

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yes

Yes.

Just finished re-watching the series again today. The show is actually really good with foreshadowing.

The entire show he is constantly telling C.C. that he will fulfill his contract with her no matter what.

While it would still be a good story if he had died, they build two entire seasons up of him constantly telling her not to worry, he'll fulfill her contract.

Her true desire, of course, is not to die, but be loved. And that's what he'll do. And he can't do that if he's dead. He took her code so she can have a normal life, and he'll love her until she dies.

Rewatching this with R3 in mind really changed my perspective. When alivefags listed Lulu and CC's promise as one of the reasons he can't be dead, I was wondering whether that promise is all that important in the grander scheme of things. Then recently I stumbled upon this post on tumblr mononoke-no-ko.tumblr.com/post/168460395914/official-texts-on-lelouch-cc and rewatched the series last weekend while paying extra attention to their relationship. It dawned on me that Lulu will never leave CC alone.

At this point with upcoming R3, I'd say almost definitely yes. It would be aho of them to drop hints that the guy could be might be alive, make a sequel where he IS alive, but not picking up the hints they dropped.

>implying he's not the hat
>implying he's not the poncho
>implying he's not one of the horses
>implying he's not the cart itself

Stupid bitch.

I was really on the fence the first time I watched it. On subsequent viewings, they tend to foreshadow quite a bit.

Even Charles. When V.V. Fights Lelouch, V.V. Says Lelouch reminded him of Charles. Well we all know despite the prickly exterior, Lelouch is a softy, so it makes you think Charles is more complicated. It also made me think about how Charles probably used Geass to become emperor in a way similar to Lelouch becoming leader of the black knights- rewriting memories and loyalties to gain miraculous victories.

What's the deal with miracle birthday PD then? Not canon? And all other sources saying he's dead?

He's sort of officially dead on paper. But two times staffs were directly asked whether Lelouch is really dead, both answers suggested they have never made any confirmation on his status. What cocktease.

No, he's Kraft Lawrence

no

it was Akito
In this scene his is transporting his sluty gf back to EU.
This is how original and the ova tie together

What how?

>two times staffs were directly asked

whether Lelouch is really dead
When and where did these ever happen

Back in 2008.
I doubt anyone has them these days.
I remember one was made to Taniguchi and another one to Okouchi.

no no not that one

From Sunrise panel at NYCC 2011 (bayoab.info/live/old.php?panel=219):
12:58:03 Q: At the end of Code Geass R2, does lelouch really die?
12:58:21 A: Actually, as you can probably tell by watching the series, we leave that up to the viewers opinion
12:58:56 I think the best part is you can debate and discuss

From Net GEASS RETURN included in R2 DVD Vol. 09 (nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7128397):
Q: What about Lelouch? Do you think he's dead?
Assist writer Yoshino: In my opinion, I think he's alive

so when is R3 coming out exactly?

To be honest, I think back in 2008 their intention was to keep him dead.
Nips are rather strict in their mentality that if you've done bad, you have to pay in an equal measure, and Lelouch was responsible for several deaths (of non-combatants), and thus he had to die to pay for that.

However, later on they realised that without Lelouch the franchise had nothing to stand on, since Akito was crap, and thus decided to keep it as ambiguous.

Just wait until the release of third recap movie, they'll probably make some announcement then.

but they said these before Akito came to existence. I think the intention was to keep it ambiguous till the end of time, but decided to make it clear now because it's a good move, business-wise.

I believe the idea was yes, but now be prepared for him to NOT be the cart driver and we will get some other explanation in S3 of Code Geass after briefly toying with fans speculations.

I wonder!

Yeah, it's pretty clear upon a focused rewatch that Lelouch and C.C. have enough scenes together in both seasons with material supporting his survival after the fact. Not even from the romantic perspective, I am talking in general.

The director of Akito went to a convention in Spain and they asked him about Lelouch's death.

The guy said he asked and couldn't tell them the answer, but that the matter was supposedly clarified in one of the novels.

Turns out that the last novel for Code Geass R2 has the cart driver smiling.

Hmm.

>Yeah, it's pretty clear upon a focused rewatch that Lelouch and C.C. have enough scenes together in both seasons with material supporting his survival after the fact. Not even from the romantic perspective, I am talking in general.
I am in the "Lulu accidentally received CODE from his father" camp. This is due to Lulu claiming on screen to Suzaku that he could have fake his own death in a million ways, but he decided to die for real by choice.

An earlier thread as an user claiming he needed to keep his promise with CC. I see it differently, in that poetically, since him dying meant breaking his promise, he was not allowed to die.

I am imagining Lulu being buried in an unmarked grave in the middle of nowhere, as he intended. But then have CC literally camping at his burial site because she is holding him to his promise, that he would be by her side. Intending to stay there till the sun turns Supernova. But then within days Lulu ended up climbing out of the ground to his own surprise.

I mean, that's the simplest reason to explain how a resurrected Lulu would actually end up finding CC again.

Posting best boy x best girl pic because this thread is kinda dry

Cool info there, user.

That would be a horrible choice because it would have completely invalidated his redemption through death.
Yes, probably.

>his redemption through death
???
I don't remember anything like this happening. I'm sure this is a new bait tactic picked up from a few brainlets that complained early on.

I honestly can see them doing this for the sake of being unpredictable because they seem to be fond of doing this in the past. Except I don't think fans would be surprised in a good way, and I hope they know that.

I've known that Lulu is the cart driver in the novel since long ago, but this is the first time I heard it's supposed to clarify the ambiguity of R2's ending. Speaking of the novel, the hangar scene with Lulu and CC didn't end with just them walking toward each other before getting cockblocked by Kallen, but actually managed to put their hands on each other (hers on his neck, his on her waist). Can I take that as a clarification too?

>Lulu claiming on screen to Suzaku that he could have fake his own death in a million ways, but he decided to die for real by choice
When did he say this?
Idk user I think the whole 'accidentally' receive dad's code would require a Lulu having to deal from fully accepting his death to learning that he will never die, in which we never see it happened thus implied that R2's ending wasn't completed.

theres no way r3 is gonna be as bad as Akito r-right

>goes on about how those who are willing to kill must also be willing to be killed themselves, mentions that in his death scene
>his death will make everything right, and the evil he had done before was just so that he could do this
So, this was not supposed to be redemption through death?

Don't be so literal. The one who does something needs to be prepared to risk everything to obtain that thing. It's a critique on nobility that has everyone else dying for them while doing nothing. And he is prepared to give everything; if he didn't have the code, he'd have to actually stay dead.

It's not his death that made everything right. He was larping someone he wasn't in order to trick people into hating his empire. The whole thing was fake from the very start and him surviving doesn't make or break it as long as people don't see through his plan to dismantle Britannia.

There's also cc crying in the scene and such things. It was supposed to be that and vindicate what he had done, since he was willing to bite the bullet himself. That is, not just cause sufferring, but also take it.
From a goal-oriented perspective it wouldn't matter. But from a moral one it would. It's a man who ruined the lives everyone around him. He doesn't deserve a peaceful life. That would be a terrible ending and would eliminate any sympathy he got through his sacrifice.

>When did he say this?
It has been years, user. But I remember Lulu telling Suzaku that his plan is by choice. It could be in the show itself or side bonus material. But I remember it as being in the show itself.

>Idk user I think the whole 'accidentally' receive dad's code would require a Lulu having to deal from fully accepting his death to learning that he will never die
What are you talking about? The point is that we don't know anything for sure of what happens after he get stabbed. So until his survival is actually confirmed on screen, there is no need to "deal" with his immortality. That would be left to the sequel, as it should be.

>Is Lelouch the cart driver?
>2008: Yes
>2009: Yes
>2010: No
>2011: No
>2012: No
>2013: No
>2014: No
>2015: No
>2016: No
>2017: Yes

>That is, not just cause sufferring, but also take it.
And suffered he did.

But it seems you have mistakenly assumed Lulu said "all who cause suffering should die".
No, what he said was "all who caused suffering should be ready to die".

And Lulu was ready to die. He held up his word. The fact that he couldn't die, that he failed to die, is just the Code Geass universe upholding the rule that only those who want to live, gets to die. This is why CC lived, and this is also why Suzaku lived. Both had a death wish, and both were blocked from it. Lulu now joins them, appropriately theme wise.

>cc crying because it was supposed to be vindicate to what he had done
Yeah, gaining immortality, which is the thing she hated the most throughout the series until he revealed her real wish - to be loved. She was crying for Lulu's sacrifice - gaining immortality - to fulfill her actual wish.

>From a goal-oriented perspective it wouldn't matter. But from a moral one it would
Yeah. From a moral perspective ruling a country terrible so he can merely pretend he's worse than Hitler already invalidates the whole thing and the sacrifice thing is a joke from the very start, which is exactly what I said.

Lelouch literally did nothing wrong he has no need for redemption. If you remember he did the entire thing as a massive conspiracy to dismantle Britannia and he had from the beggining planned out becoming Big baddy to unite the world and then collapse it into a new government upon his “death”. He didn’t need a redemption by death because that wasn’t even the purpose of it, his deaths role was to bring an end to an ancient institution and establish a new one led by Suzuku posing as him.

Imagine being a "Lelouch died" fag when R3 news came out.

>From a moral perspective ruling a country terrible so he can merely pretend he's worse than Hitler already invalidates the whole thing and
Isn't it interesting that Lulu made sure everyone he put on death row, didn't actually get executed before he himself committed suicide?
And it is extremely easy to pretend to be a tyrant, while enforcing sensible policies that are merely unpopular. You would be amazed at how easy it is to make any government policy sound bad.

>But then within days Lulu ended up climbing out of the ground to his own surprise.
Lmao imagine the scene

>extremely easy to pretend to be a tyrant, while enforcing sensible policies that are merely unpopular
Holy shit, we had three episodes focusing on terrible policies I wanted to murder him for. This level of rationalization is higher than anyone I've seen this year.

Being a deadfag is fine, staffs said Lelouch's fate was up to interpretation after all. The pathetic ones are 'no ambiguity' fags who claimed alivefags to be delusional.

But deadfags literally interpreted it wrong.

S3 confirms he is, but I preferred it when it was left ambiguous. That ending was great.

Only to the extent the novels don't contradict stuff explicitly said or done in S2 or S3. If they do, then they are no longer valid for those parts. I doubt they will be heavily consulted for anything in particular though, so better not rely too much on them.

What if S3 has an ambiguous ending too?

Denialfags have been saying he's not for 30 years. Then R3 was announced and all of them were collectively blown the fuck out.

/thread desu senpai

It's so obvious it's not even funny when I see people claiming he's dead. It's just pathetic.

I really need to re-watch CG. I was here for Geass Sundays and it was the best time I had on Sup Forums ever. And the show was 10/10 for entertainment value. The fanservice helps too. The fact that C.C. got to live a happy immortal life with her warlock is turlly just a beatiful cherry on top.

he's IN the cart

>samefag
>ccuck
>redditor
lmao

You are not even wrong. You are salty. I would bet you are one of those filthy kallenfags too.

Then it would be repetitive

I am a Kallenfag. I'm secretly hoping that Kallen will get some action with Lelouche even if he is destined to be with C.C.

I fucking KNEW it.

Stay salty friend.

Kallen have to die for Lelouch while admiting that she is fucking head over heels for him.

>We will get to see the animated Lelouch and CC vanilla scene in our lifetime.
I have never been so happy in my life.

I'm just glad that our emperor is alive and well.

And then CC died 'while smiling'

No, he is dead and will stay dead, get mad fan

Of course it is, otherwise there wouldn't be a season 3.

Code Geass R2 was absolute shit.
Really the first season starts getting pretty shit in the last act as well.

>Muh cliche if everyone works together to fight a single enemy, world peace will be achieved, because that's what happened after WW2.

>missing the point this badly
CG haters are truly brainlets.

OK Ken-sama

Domestically, he emancipated the people of Britannia and wrecked mercentilistic interest groups. These are generally considered good things.

Those are bad things, though.

He may have had every intention do die and just didn't know he'd revive. Or they could just go the Super Robot Wars route and have "Lelouche" die and have him return and live on as a new person. It's kinda cheesey, it's plausible.

>nobody calling this retard out for direct linking tumblr
Sup Forums is fucking dead

>Lulu has code from Charles
I'm not a big fan of that theory because I don't think there is enough evidence in the show to support it.

Now granted, we don't actually know how the code is passed from the holder to the Geass user (unless I missed something in the show). When we see Charles, he has already "stolen" V.V.'s code. In C.C.'s memory, it jumps until after she already has it and she's a bloody mess. So while it is a possibility, I just don't see any references to it anywhere, and this is a show that, again, does pretty good foreshadowing in my opinion.

I think that C.C. gives him his code sometime in the two months between the final battle with Schneizel and his ultimate "death" by Zero. This allows him to fulfill his contract with C.C. of taking her code, giving her a chance to live a normal life, then die, and be loved knowing that is a true love because she isn't just the only person not susceptible to a Geass, and since Lelouch won't have his Geass when he has the code, she knows she really loves him and is not under mind control.

>Redemption through death
I don't like this theory either because it's not in character. Suzaku is the "redemption through death" character seeking a death wish the entire show, and arguably suffering a fate worse than death by being forced to live under the cowl of the man who killed his princess and patrol the world as a Geass powered batman.

If we learn one thing about Lelouch this whole show, it's that he's a liar. He lies to everyone. Except for maybe C.C., but he tells some small lies in there (like he doesn't like Shirley when she asks). There is no reason to believe that Lelouch sought, or achieved, an "honest" death.

Additionally, Lelouch is all about clearing the requirements of the "game". If he had died, he would have failed the conditions of his contract with C.C. Again, there's a lot of foreshadowing with this.