What part of his plan went wrong?

what part of his plan went wrong?

He didn't believe in the powa of frens

Turns out that the demons made from your flaws happen to be very flawed


He was a miserable loner who didn't understand his own feelings.

dammit 10? years later I see I speedwatched and didn't notice this yandere face memeing
and it was not even yandere but hey

how unsocialized people work in general

Homunculus death ratings:

>God tier
>Great tier
>Good tier
>Average tier
>Meh tier
>Don't give a fuck tier

Can't play God when God exists.

Why is this fucking show nr 1 on every list?
I don't get how a mediocre show can be so loved.

knock Greed up to God tier and I agree completely.

cool concept

Every episode had me captivated. I liked all the characters too.

One of the first anime most people watched outside of stuff that aired on TV, pretty good adventure story, grounded/constant power levels, really well animated, extremely memorable OPs, even pretty fucking good English voice acting

It had more adventure in that shonen than usual.

It's the battle shounen formula streamlined and polished to all hell. Of course it has a large appeal.

I think Brotherhood would have been legit great if it was directed like the 2003 series.

I didn't like Envy's death too much, felt like they could've squashed him and saved ten minutes of rambling
and you could bump Gluttony to average, his death was pretty okay
also seconding >mediocre
it's not the best show out there, that's for sure, but it doesn't do much wrong

one of the best manga of the modern age

can't really think of any contemporary shonen that definitively top it

Envy is C U T E

>Why is this fucking show nr 1 on every list?
>I don't get how a mediocre show can be so loved.

It's a great thing but with really average ending. That final battle me me drop the manga ongoing, I was pretty butthurt. Same with Kekkaishi ending. Shonens never end decently.

The part where he stood still and let a group of alchemists wear down his force field and kill him.

Like this show had a few good moments but everything after envys death just got worse and worse.
Probably the most poorly written climax i have ever wittnessed.

Really didn't make much sense.

Shouldn't have spared Ho and just get all the Xerxes souls for himselves.

I agree, but I liked when he whipped out the miniature star

I'm not sure he had a choice because he was stuck in the center with him.

I remember some user writing an ass long post about how he tried to become the a perfect existence by becoming god, but failed because as a mortal being he only could possibly become a perfect being or something. Has someone that screencap?

shonenshit that actually has a planned path to the end and therefore isn't dragged with filtershit.

Also I'd like to add that even if Father did have a choice that he was genuinely grateful to Hohenheim for giving him life.


Homunculus was made from Van's blood. That's why the souls were split between the two of them. The Elric brothers were both affect by the rebound when they tried to resurrect their mother. Because they used their blood in the ritual, Al's body was bound to Ed's spirit.

Everything went right with the plan. He became god, but got destroyed by friendship power asspull.

It went all wrong when he wasn't content with what he had.

Altough even his feelings was probaply all aggording to "God's" plan. He was part of the "Everything" that was behind the door. He even says in the ending "No, I don't want to go back there."

There is a Daoist story about a stone mason who isn't content with what he has, sees one day a magistrate and wishes he was a magistrate so he doesn't have to bow to him. And he becomes a magistrate. Then he realizes there is emperor above him and wishes to become one and does so. But even as emperor he is beamed by sun and he wishes to become one. But sun can't shine everywhere because of clouds, so he becomes one in hopes of being more powerful than sun. But clouds are moved by wind so wind he wishes to be. Then there are stones the wind can't move so he wants to be a stone. And when he is a mighty stone he hears the chisel of a mason.

Considering that Arakawa had researched alchemical traditions of both West and East he most likely knew this story. And it is story of the Homunculus. He was likely part of "All" that wanted to be disconnected from it so it allowed the alchemists of Xerxes to summon it and seal in a flask. But it wasn't content with that and wanted to be able to move like humans and became one. But humans are flawed so it got rid of those flaws and created homunculi and his mock family. That wasn't enough so he sought to become god. Not realizing that becoming God meant to become one with everything again. His fate was kind of sealed from the beginning.

This ouroboros motif is also seen in how father Hoenheim's blood is what is used to create the Homunculus and his son Edward Elric is one who destroys it. It is poetic and shows that Arakawa made a great story. Usually tapping into old archetypical stories make great stories.


Sloth's was the best.

Never thought about it like that, but it makes a lot of sense. Neat.

Not a bad way to look at it, yeah.

>Considering that Arakawa had researched alchemical traditions of both West and East he most likely knew this story
>he most likely knew this story

Wasn't the series made by a woman?

Yeah, I mistyped in a rush. Should have read before posting, sorry.

The only step he took that was wrong, LITERALLY the only thing he did wrong that messed up his plan was to let hongbongheimer live as a reward for helping him free himself. Cut that part and he would have won.


I'd bump Lust up to Great. Otherwise, very good list.

>cool power system and setting
>solid characters with actual variety amongst the heroes
>great OST, animation, and voice work
>almost every OP and ED is god-tier
>no filler, every episode advances the story in some way
>conflict ends on the *second* to last episode allowing an entire episode to wrap up every loose end in a really satisfying ending

Other shows have done some things better, but there’s really nothing wrong with Brotherhood. It’s borderline flawless.

And personally, Ed and Al remind me of me and my little brother. So I’m fond of it for that. Always gives me a mild shock that a woman created one of the best portrayals of brotherhood in fiction imo.

>tfw you’re 6’4” and your younger brother still makes you feel tiny

I think it's very interesting how the male characters are some of the best in shounen (and maybe anime as a whole), while the female characters are merely average, despite the author being a woman herself.

Father got BTFO by fucking sunlight.

The part where he decided to use the stupid as fuck eclipse trope. Fuck I hate Brotherhood so much for following the manga's stupid fucking eclipse shit.

the show is not bad its actually one of the best there is, you are just one of the people whose (it wrong) opinion differ from the rest

OP 3 was the best

That same allegory was applied to Ed's journey, he starts as an edgy atheist and by the end he his ideology has gone full circle to a deist with a growing family.
Much was lost but at the same time much was gained or rediscovered, I dont think many anime have such a complete end.

>he starts as an edgy atheist and by the end he his ideology has gone full circle to a deist


sloth was the best, fuk u

He does though.

Not accounting for all Hoheinheim's actions I suppose?

Not that user, but no. Infact pretty sure he rejects the whole divine gate thing.

...Infact I think if anything it solidifies his Humanist ideals.

This. Letting someone with the exact same powers (and maybe knowledge) as him run around freely was the biggest and stupidest mistake he did.

I dunno, Greed's 2nd death felt a little cliche. I'd honestly bump up Lust's, but that's just a difference of opinion. I really enjoyed the internal conflict with Mustang in both Envy and Lust's deaths

Maybe it's because the author was simply trying to write a story about two boys with no political feminist agendas whatsoever? What the fuck is wrong with you?

I always had a problem with Ed saying he didn't believe in God even after the fucker repossessed two of his limbs.

That wasn't God though, that was Truth.

I thought God was Truth

I mean when Ed first encountered Truth, he does refer to himself as God, truth, all, one, universe, and you.

Pretty sure the skepticism of Ed is because he treats the Truth as essentially the "take" portion in the give and take relationship of alchemy

Do you understand that the term deist does not mean to blindly follow religion or god but to acknowledge the fact it exist and its more powerful than you?
What this does is put one in the same frame of mind of Ed ie not a nihilist, but someone who has found meaning in life beyond what religion can give.
For example take the founders of america, all of them deists not necessarily religious although some were.

I don't think he was implying anything political. Just that one would think that men would write better men and women would write better women because they each have "insider information" on what makes them tick.
Rather than just observations.

Incidentally I disagree with your assertion about the female characters. Winry and Hawkeye are great, and Izumi is good.

I'll admit General Armstrong is pretty meh.

>Incidentally I disagree with your assertion about the female characters. Winry and Hawkeye are great, and Izumi is good.
Agreed. Winry is great as a love interest and isn't overbearing. Hawkeye serves as a great cushion and reasoning for some of Mustang's actions. Izumi is great as a teacher who also fucked up

Envy is a great trap

I think the distinction is Ed actually met what amounts to God. It's a bit different from how most religions work. The "God" of this setting is also very different than typical deist perceptions of God, which tend towards an explicit watchmaker ideal. We're not even certain if the god here is responsible for the way the world is and not just a facit of it itself.

Regardless, I wouldn't say Ed's a deist by the end. It's more that his edgy, trauma inspired atheism has mellowed out somewhat and he's moved on from the motivations he had earlier in the series to a healthier mindset by the end of it. I wouldn't consider his religious beliefs, whatever they are, to have much of a factor in his life in the epilogue.

>average ending.
>final battle
>Kekkaishi ending
>Shonens never end decently.

I want to teach him love. Too bad he was literally too dumb to live.

>It's the battle shounen formula streamlined and polished to all hell
It's not the battle shonen formula at fucking all.
In battle shonens the plot is an excuse to set up ridiculously elaborate fights.
In FMA fights only happen when the plot needs them to and they're over quickly.

I think he does count as a deist, I mean he's met god, paid prices both mentally and physically thanks to it.
Hell he even came up with a new theory at the end, his world view has been deeply affected by all the experiences he's lived though his journey which climaxed in the final encounter where he sacrificed his door.
At this point its pretty stupid to think that Ed of all people would deny the existence of a god hence a deist.

Which version had the best homunculli?
I think it's the fist one, specially because of lust and sloth characterization.

Hohenheim drew a counter-circle using his philosopher's stone and stopped his ritual, didn't you watch the show or read the manga?

He was an idiot.
He wanted to be free of the bottle so he...locked himself up underground once he actually had the means to be free by getting his own body.

He traded a smaller bottle for a larger one and proceeded to sulk about it.

Deism still supposes God as a perfect creator being, which doesn't apply to Truth. He isn't a god any more than the laws of physics or the universe or whatever are a god.

What internal conflict are you talking about? Kill or not to kill? That's barely there with Envy and completely absent with Lust.

Deism just supposes god which one cant comprehend, either watchmaker or not it doesnt matter since one wouldnt be able to understand anyways, but its still there.
Its even called Truth, just because the word deist has somewhat negative connotation today doesnt mean its not appropriate.

Shonen that doesn't drags for 300 episodes.
No filler except for 1 episode.
Most of the fights are well animated and don't last for 20 episodes.
Great cast of characters.
Alchemy is cool and powerlevels don't get ridiculous.
Good mix of comedy and serious.
Its just an all around well done series. I wish most shonen were like FMA.

>Good mix of comedy and serious.
Have to disagree there. Some of the comedy was very poorly placed.

Like the scene in the church where ed rips off his shirt. But then they suddenly start making stupid jokes, silly "transmutations", and cartoon style animation.

something about not being able to achieve perfection no matter how hard you try to erase your flaws

I mean did we really need 60 episodes to tell that story?

Your right, I liked pretty much everything about the homunculli much more in the first series. It’s the one aspect that I think is clearly superior to Brotherhood.

It's funny that only fucking Pride realized how fucking retarded that was.
These are the same fuckers that kept Mustang on a fucking leash.
Father was a fucking moron, as was Wrath.

'cause it's one of the few shows that deserves a 10/10 without being a fanboy or a newbie.

only shonen that has zero filler

Father isn’t even introduced until like halfway through. 60 episodes were not used to tell that story. The initial premise is 2 brothers searching for a legendary artifact and all the world-saving large-scale events come into play around the context of that story.

He didn't pay attention to Von and his dumb muslim friends making a reverse circle setup. He literally would be unstoppable if he was able to remain the full 10 million with god inside of him he was making a fucking star in his hand effortlessly.

I mean you can go through the long list of emotional or lack there of he had that led to him being too thirsty for his own good but in the literal sense he lost because he didn't pay attention to what Van was doing.

Staying to have a "proper" fight with people after Hohenheim fucked his plan, instead of just fucking off or killing them all on the spot.

Which is dumb because the homunculus put so much stock in keep Roy Mustang or Scar in control because their alchemy was fucking deadly to them.
But hey let's ignore the guy who is just as fucking strong as our Father, fucking morons.

Maybe he was still feeling attachment to Hohenheim. And tracking down a dude randomly wandering around a country of 60 million really isn't as easy as you make it out to be.

Because it was the first one (for people of a certain age at least) with ONE clearly defined plot to actually end.

>I think Brotherhood would have been legit great if it was directed like the 2003 series.
How was that?

Should have made sure Hohenheim was inhibited somehow, or at least watched him closely. That's about it.

Because it is good. It has the perfect blend of comedy, drama and action packed into a small journey. Also, compare the rest of the top 10s with FMA:B. They are garbage-tier. Be happy something decent/good is in the top 10 for once.

>double neck flask
shit taste, go triple or go home

Though I admit it felt a bit anticlimactic as a story point, from a Christian perspective, Gluttony being killed by Pride is quite interesting.

From Mere Christianity on warning Christians against being prideful about how “righteous” and “moral” they are.

>It is a terrible thing that the worst of all the vices can smuggle itself into the very centre of our religious life. But you can see why. The other, and less bad, vices come from the devil working on us through our animal nature. But this does not come through our animal nature at all it comes direct from Hell. it is purely spiritual: consequently it is far more subtle and deadly. For the same reason, Pride can often be used to beat down the simpler vices. Teachers, in fact, often appeal to a boy's Pride, or, as they call it, his self-respect, to make him behave decently: many a man has overcome cowardice, or lust, or ill-tem-per by learning to think that they are beneath his dignity — that is, by Pride. The devil laughs. He is perfectly content to see you becoming chaste and brave and self-controlled provided, all the time, he is setting up in you the dictator-ship of Pride - just as he would be quite content to see your chilblains cured if he was allowed, in return, to give you cancer. For Pride is spiritual cancer: it eats up the very possibility of love, or contentment, or even common sense.

Given that the Homunculi are named after the traditional categorization of sins in Christianity, I wonder if the author read into this kind of theology. Given that Pride is the oldest Homunculus and is considered the Primal Sin, I’d say so.
Greed admitting that he’s really not that bad of a person implies something similar.

Never read Kekkaishi so I won't comment that in particular but alot of shonens of those type end poorly mainly due to power creep fucking the plot

You mean like this? Looks goofy as fuck. Double neck definitely works better aesthetically.

You know, I like 2003 fma as much as the next one but it still had a pretty weak ending.

Dante as a whole was pretty shitty and Envy being Hoheinheim's first son was also pretty bad

FMA has filler or filler esque episodes

it's a very solid shounen
nothing groundbreaking, just well executed in general

We’re all talking about FMAB here. I’m assuming that’s what you meant.

Depends on how you define “filler”
If you mean “episodes created by the anime studio to pad time time while waiting for the source material to catch up” then FMAB has no filler. The manga was long-completed by the time it started.

But if you mean “anything not in the manga” then I think FMAB has only one filler episode, the first one with Isaac the Freezer. I assumed they didn’t want to look like they were doing a straight repeat of FMA ’03 with Liore. Even then, it sets up Father, Wrath, Armstrong, Mustang, etc. and introduces Ed and Al decently. It’s not like it has no purpose.

Either way, FMAB is basically filler-free. It doesn’t waste your time.

By either definition, the original FMA ’03 was mostly filler.

Are there any episodes in FMAB besides the first that applies to either definition?