Fate/Zero Flaws?

Ok Fatefags I've been seeing the fate/zero is trash opinion floating around. As someone who has yet to finish the F/SN VN (but has consumed most other forms of nasuverse media) I'm curious to know how Zero became so unpopular

Manchildren cast

The narrative structure is a complete mess.

Fate Zero fucks up Saber's character pretty hard.

In the original novel Saber is a ruthless and determined warrior fighting for her wish. Zero would have you believe that Gilgamesh and Iskander telling her she's stupid will make her cry. She also jobs to people she really shouldn't job to. Diarmuid manages to fight her when Saber was styling on Cu, Gilles shows up in front of her and instead of cutting his head off she just stand there and lets him summon shit for some reason.

Also Kiritsugu's fighting style requires everyone else to be an idiot. Kotomine is the hardest fight because he actually fights instead of standing there like a moron waiting to get shot while bragging about how awesome he is.

Finally, a reply of substance.
Thank you user

Because it brought a shit ton of secondaries who only watched the show, never read the LN and even less F/SN.
They keep polluting threads with stupid questions that are answered by reading the source material.
There's also some inconsistencies in the adaptation, but nothing deen-tier.

the only major criticism I have of it is the two episode backstory of the kiritsugu. This could have easily been cut down to 1 episode, and would have been better suited in the first season not the second half of the second season. they way they shoved those episodes in there completely fucked up any momentum they had been building up towards the last few eps.

Also Kerry was seen as the ultimate mgae killer and it implied that he swept the 4th war yet in Zero it takes 3 volumes just to kill Fastwheels and by the time that's over with the finale is approaching.

Urobuchi created characters that are intelligent, but mostly through plot contrivance. Not a major criticism, but it could have been done better.

I don't have problems with Fate/Zero itself. However it does bring in a large amount of secondaries and they tend to bring down quality of discussion. Fate/Zero is a prequel, it's meant to be experienced after Fate/StayNight. Without that larger context, people take all the characterization and worldbuilding from Zero alone, and they are generally pretty obnoxious about it.

its the only good thing to have ever come out of this shit eroge fanfiction
but don't expect Sup Forums to tell you that, they'd sooner fap to saber doujinshi

Most of the Masters are either dumb or insane and I can't tell if half of them are intentional. Kotomine and Uryu are explicit madmen but Kariya, Kayneth, Tokiomi, Saber, and Iskander make some really stupid moves that I'm still unsure whether it's the folly of the characters or sloppy writing (In Kerry's case it's the former). Waver's also incompetent but he's supposed to be a bratty college kid. Then again, he enters a death game just to show up his meanie head professor and came in his pants when he summoned his servant.

Oh boy here we got someone who missed ALL points about this show

> make her cry.
it made her question her goals

>She also jobs to people she really shouldn't job to. Diarmuid manages to fight her when Saber was styling on Cu
She was caught offguard with Diarmuids spear hidden in the ground.
And their last fight they both wanted a fucking fair fight without BS before Kiritsugu's decided to be a fag.

>Kiritsugu's fighting style requires everyone else to be an idiot.
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF MAGIC
As el mellio said, he wanted a fucking fair magic fight but Kiritsugu woudnt let him.

>Gilles shows up in front of her and instead of cutting his head off she just stand there and lets him summon shit for some reason.
KNIGHTS GODE OF FUCKING CHIVALRY, HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT IT?

>Kotomine is the hardest fight because he actually fights instead of standing there like a moron waiting to get shot while bragging about how awesome he is.
Woop de doo an assassin got a problem against a brute melee fighter. more news at 11

god dammit why did I even bother typing all this to someone who couldn't grasp this.

>Diarmuid stuff
It required her to be an idiot
>He has two spears, they can't possibly both be NPs!
>his spear will bounce off my armor and leave him open to a lethal strike, and he must be too stupid to realize that himself
>Imma take my armor off to fight him because his spear ignores armor, not knowing what else a heroic spirit could possibly have up his sleeve
>where'd his other spear that I don't know what it does go? ehh, it's probably nothing
>oh no, I have a wound on my wrist and that somehow means I can't Excaliblast anymore

>Fastwheels
We know he originally wanted fair magic fights but his stupidity goes way beyond that

>Chivalry
Saber was a ruthless utilitarian during her time as king. She just lets Gilles the first time they meet despite wanting him dead already and being the class most advantageous against Casters. She even shoots some strike air next to him when she could have just killed him with it easily. The second time she stands around as he crushes heads and uses the bodies to summon monsters. The thrid fucking time she still lets him talk and complete the ritual to summon Cthulhu.

>Kotomine
You misinterpreted his point. He said Kotomine is the only hard opponent for Kerry because he's the only one that isn't a retarded braggart.

I strongly get the impression you only know Zero

>Saber
>Character

>Grab a popular story
>Make all characters look like adults and talk a lot about middle school tier philosophy
>Add guns
>Add explosives
>Add JETS
>Add magic motorcycles
>Add wolverine claws
>Add smoking, drinking, suffering, cheating, cuckolding, and tons of death
>Add vampires, zombies, rape worms and lovecraftian horrors
>Add ancient indian spaceships
>Add a fucking batcave
>Add an innocent girl who's thrown into a pit to be raped by thousands of worms, then feed her virginity to the only person that loves her
>Season it with a metric fuckton of edginess
>Instant masterpiece
>Profit
>Become Budgetable

While I believe that Zero is still the best anime to come from the franchise (but LE seems to be taking that place soon), it has a couple of annoying stuff, especially in season one.
>It starts with a double episode of infodump, and the overdose of exposition keeps going on in the series
>The first big fight could be the ideal opportunity to shove in some tension, along with action making things flow smoothly, but we got "muh chivalry code" and it was a snoozefest
>Nothing of much relevance happens after, until Cthulhu
Excluding some small events, you could reduce the first season to six or less episodes, and it would make the same job. Now to season 2:
>Things actually start happening
>Tension rises
>Hey, let's put two episodes of Kiritsugu's backstory in between and break the momentum

I could point out a lot of other shit, such as Iskandar and his brat that annoyed me to hell until their nice conclusion, or the knights' break in season two just to drink and shit on Saber, which was pretty cool philosophy, but dragged out a lot... Yeah, I forgot a lot of other things, but that's it.

>Chivalry
She would fuck over her own town, have it sacked and raped just so she can station her troops there for the first killing blow on the enemy troops dude. Her lack of chivalry is what made the people rebel.

>KNIGHTS GODE OF FUCKING CHIVALRY, HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT IT?
nope

what the fuck is a GODE

Honestly, it fails at a battle royal.

Fate is not a battle royal, it just pretends to be in order to complete the third magic, the three families wouldn't let some random nigga win

>it just pretends to be
That's why it fails.

Very faux-deep. Characters are either forced to act an a way that allows Urobuchis fetishes and bad habits of grimdark edge. The greatest example of that being how Saber is completely different from what is in F/SN, and what was established to be what she was like before F/SN in F/SN just so Urobuchi can shit on honorfags. Or they simply exist for no real purpose. Team Caster is fun but ultimately kinda pointless, Maiya may as well not exist. Hundred-Face Hassan was a throwaway and most characters beyond Kiritsugu and Team Rider didn't matter much.

It bashes you over the head with some themes and the idea that Kerry is a fucked up person when it could tone that down because it's super clear to most people with a brain (then again some people legitimately think Kiritsugu is admirable, or cool.)

You also have the story completely side with Iskander's way of being a king, sucking him off without reservation. He's got some points, but he's also an idiot in ways. Gil doesn't actually add much to the banquet because Gil isn't really a character in F/Z or F/SN. He is however great in CCC and Bablyon. The story should also point out the good and beautiful parts of each of the paths of being a king while also showing their faults instead of just going ISKANDER IS GREAT.

You could have fun meetings between more of the masters. You could have Tokiomi meet Waver as a man who wasn't a talented magus but is pretty good because he worked hard, just like how Waver wrote about (and rightfully got laughed out of the Clock Tower for) Hard work can bring you far, but innate talent is still a limit, so you can have fun exploring that further.

Fate/Zero was too short to give every character a spotlight, so it shits the bed by waving it around and ending up just presenting a bunch of characters that aren't really explored.

Also no prankster Tokiomi like F/SN suggested is a crime.

>Fate/Zero is a prequel, it's meant to be experienced after Fate/StayNight.

This. The visual novel is made in such a way that you slowly gets to know what is happening, every route you discover something new, until everything is uncovered in Heaven's Feel. Fate/zero is a prequel written by another autor and the anime spoils you in odd ways if you don't know anything, this when the person isn't already spoiled to hell and back by reading wikis and Fate posts before watching the anime, at this point the magic of the main story starts to fade.

kys secondary

Its not trash, but the obnoxious fanbase around it certainly is (the type that touts it as the pinnacle of anime/fate series/etc...).

You are right, moeshit is so much better.

Strange Fake anime when