Because I missed the one the other day and would like to discuss it
What do you think causes Ichise to kick start the 3 way fight in episode 8/Crucible?
Was Ran working with Yoshii, and disappointed at the outcome? ("Nothing ever changes") Or is it actually the opposite? (Finding Sakimura, revealing Yoshii to Onishi, etc.?)
Is Ran unable to change the future that she sees or has she simply been groomed by the people of Gabe to be fatalist towards a future she doesn't want?
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bumping with a panicking texhnolyze
...
can someone tell me what the theory was behind eriko having a twin or something?
>What do you think causes Ichise to kick start the 3 way fight in episode 8/Crucible?
Based on the cross-cutting with Doc's "experiments" I'm inclined to think it was her, especially since it also lends credence to the episode's title. I assume it's Ichise's ability to survive the Spectacle (and all of the following developments up to series midpoint) that give her the confidence to present him to the Class.
On a side note, there's an interesting detail that pops up in the next episode when Ichise's being driven around in pic related. Doc finishing her work on his arm allows her to track him whereever he goes in Lux, probably in response to him having an autistic fit and storming out in episode 5. That's probably another connection to how his arm is able to reactivate in the last episode too, now that I think about it.
>and storming out in episode 5
Fuck. I meant episode 4.
Interesting theory. I had always operated on the assumption that it was Ran since she's shown to be able to implant images via the Texhnolyze-Obelisk link.
Ran also leads him towards the stand off anyway; youtube.com
Never heard of it. Probably has to do with her Theonormal style ghost appearing in her lab near the end, which is presumably what kick starts the lab to power Ichise's limbs.
(You)
I should also add, the music that starts at youtube.com
see youtube.com
Ran never seemed uncomfortable around Yoshii. She probably knew that he could have been the key to making things better. Remember that as soon as Ichise joins Organo, she abandons him because her visions start coming true.
That's a weird case too. It's pretty obvious she's the one showing him memories of his father's death/killers, but then when he goes out and inevitably kills them, it's inter-cut with scenes of her looking sad/disappointed. Can she really have expected him not to? Why did she show him in the first place?
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I can see her showing him because he wanted to know- and she already wouldn't show him his future, but she should've known the outcome.
Perhaps she thought it might awaken in him an individual purpose that would make him leave Organo like when he killed the guy who amputated him, but realized she made a mistake. After all, when he was doing that she went all "good boy good boy" on him. It might also be possible that he himself regained those memories. I don't have a YouTube account and I don't want to get out my DVDs right now, else I'd look a little closer to see the context of said flashbacks for myself to confirm whether it's possible.
>It might also be possible that he himself regained those memories.
Not likely. She also awakens right when the memories stop.
The "good boy" part is another confusing bit; there she seems to enjoy that he's being violent but here it's the opposite. I'm not really sure how that would give him an "individual purpose" that would also make him leave the Organo, but you could be right. By all accounts it should have worked since they would be pissed that he just went and killed some guys being questioned. But if you were right, then she should've only been sad after the fact, after he didn't get rejected/quit the Organo, instead of during the act itself. Unless of course she was already seeing the outcome.
That episode is interesting because of the market scene where Ichise confronts her, she appears to have a vision but it winds up not coming true. She sees the masked people of Gabe approach and (presumably Ichise's) katana is drawn, then she starts screaming, but in the next shot his katana is fully sheathed and the people have disappeared batman style. I don't think the sheathed katana is an animation error either, the only thing like that I've noticed it Ichise's gunshot wounds from the first episode have disappeared by episode 2. Probably cause they both landed above where his limbs were hacked off and that makes his stumbling around even harder to believe.
I always thought it was possible that Ran was more or less giving her blessing for Yoshii to run wild. She's seen his future and presumably at least some part of the mayhem he's going to cause, but she keeps it to herself and never tries to do anything to stop it once he gets going. And something that maybe ties into that is how Onishi comments how long it's been since the Voice of the City (Ran) has talked to him. If Ran knew from the beginning how bad things were going to get (which I have no idea if that's the case or not), then I could definitely see her deciding to give an outsider with some fresh ideas a chance to cut the head off the snake (Class/Kano) instead of just keeping the status quo with Onishi.
I've gone over that exact market scene like five times and I'm still not completely sure if it's a vision that doesn't come true, like you say, or if it's supposed to be her vision of him killing his father's murderers at the end of the episode. When he draws his katana approaching the murderers, there's an extremely similar sound effect to the one when he draws it in her vision, and then it suddenly cuts back to Distraught Ran Face. I lean toward the latter just because it would seem to make more thematic sense with her dejected reactions being spliced into his rampage.
By individual purpose, I mean giving Ichise a reason to live outside of blindly following Organo. The way I see it, Ran was attracted to him because she felt sorry for him, but noticed that he just wouldn't give up. She was happy that he took his revenge because he was carving a path for himself and embracing his humanity. In that way, if she gave him those memories back, she would have initially wanted him to go against the wishes of Organo and decide once again to be independent.
This show's a mixed bag so far. It is very hard to keep track of the characters because most of them look the same, but the atmosphere and soundtrack are fantastic. Ran a cutie. I'm about to watch the last four episodes, supposedly the high point of the show, so wish me luck. See you in two hours.
The problem with that is she shows Yoshii to Onishi when he's on the phone masquerading as a member of the Salvation Union in Plot (ep. 7) and also in Conclusion (ep 10) when Yoshii is planning on sniping the Delegate; Onishi pulls up and runs towards the door while looking over his shoulder at the building Yoshii is in and Yoshii's face suddenly appears to him.
Ran also finds Sakimura during the confrontation in Crucible, and makes him stay behind in Conclusion saying "If you go, you'll..." when he ultimately is the one to finish off Yoshii. Although, strangely when Yoshii initially comes upon the two, it is Sakimura who is leading Ran by the hand.
Now that's interesting, I hadn't considered that. The problem of course is that it shows Ichise unsheathing with a white background behind him, and then shows the masked people of Gabe approaching over top the white background. And ultimately, he later kills the men with his fists. But I see what you mean, it does have a meaningful echo to it. More likely, the flash of her eyes is just meant to shown that she had already forseen this happening.
Oh no, I understand what you mean. I'm just not sure how him killing them and also leaving the Organo are mutually exclusive. According to some Interview notes, Ran sees Ichise as inspiring hope that things can change, I think. I'll look for the exact quote.
You should probably re-watch after finishing it, a fuckton of details from the beginning make sense after seeing the whole thing and there's a lot of small details that hint at certain explanations that you can really only catch on a subsequent watch.
The show has only gotten better for me as I continue to rewatch it
>The problem with that is she shows Yoshii to Onishi when he's on the phone masquerading as a member of the Salvation Union in Plot (ep. 7) and also in Conclusion (ep 10) when Yoshii is planning on sniping the Delegate
I have never thought about that until now. That really changes everything and I don't know if I can pinpoint Ran's motives anymore. She's a complex character but this is strange. You could theorize that she just continually makes bad decisions as she frantically tries to piece visions together to find the right combination of actions, but that's reaching outside of details found in the show.
>According to some Interview notes, Ran sees Ichise as inspiring hope that things can change, I think. I'll look for the exact quote.
That would be the NewType interview with Ueda, right? This quote in particular:
>Ichise lost his way after artificial body parts were buried inside of him against his will, and Ran’s strength is a beacon for him, directing him onto a new path. And for Ran, Ichise represents hope. She saw a future she never cared to see, and watching Ichise struggle to overcome the horrors she’d witnessed in visions was certain proof that the bleak future could be changed. She’d seen only one of many possible futures.
I've actually thought about buying that issue somehow just so I could scan the page(s) with the interview, because it's such an in-depth and detailed one versus the cop-out answer Ueda gives in the one included on the DVD.
Plus it would do a lot to counteract the oft-repeated assertion that the show is just pure nihilism.
I know, that's my conundrum too. It's easier to paint her as being against Yoshii, but she laments that nothing ever changes upon his death. It's why I questioned in the OP if she actually wanted to change things but was bound to fatalism as that's how her people have raised her.
Found it texhnolyzeillumination.wordpress.com
>Ichise lost his way after artificial body parts were buried inside of him against his will, and Ran’s strength is a beacon for him, directing him onto a new path. And for Ran, Ichise represents hope. She saw a future she never cared to see, and watching Ichise struggle to overcome the horrors she’d witnessed in visions was certain proof that the bleak future could be changed. She’d seen only one of many possible futures.
Damn you beat me to it. Yeah the DVD interview was severely lacking I thought. I would've rather had an interview with Konaka desu.
>pic
There's Pixiv art of Texhnoylze? I never thought to look.
>last episodes
Oh boy, are you in for a ride
>I'm about to watch the last four episodes
it's gonna be rough
I think maybe she just had a change of heart when she realized Yoshii was only half 'liberate the people so they don't end up like the Theonormal' and the other half was a less noble 'chaos is fucking FUN'.
Ran going to Sakimura seems like it has to be solely to shepard him into position to kill Yoshii (not that he was much danger at that point, anyway) because after she goes to him at the end of 8, they aren't seen again until the end of 9 where they run into Yoshii. Like there's actually zero interaction or dialogue between them until she keeps him safe by making him stay behind during the final confrontation.
I always thought Ran looked almost upset at Ichise in the opening scene of 11 when he's staring out at her from the Organo building. Never really been sure what to make of that unless it's to do with him killing Yoshii (if you buy into that conspiracy theory) or more likely abandoning his freedom to join Organo. Considering how long it is and it's the opening scene, I would think there's something being conveyed in that look.
He seems to barely mention Texhnolyze, and in fact, he doesn't even credit himself with any of its script/scenario-writing on his site.
I wish he'd talk about it these days instead of rambling about Digimon Tamers and Renamon, lest he oust himself as a furry just like Hosoda in regards to the latter.
he's not gonna be happy. the ending is always painful for me to watch
I suppose she could've had a change of heart after he bombed the Dragon's Den but if she does it happens off screen somewhere. She's pretty stoic about the whole thing when running into him with Ichise (where Ichise tries to punch him a lot) and it's only after those events that she gathers Sakimura. I still say that she has to be gathering him just to bring him into the fold for Yoshii's execution but I still don't understand why Sakimura was the one leading her by the hand.
I agree about her look. If is correct then it would be about him joining the Organo. Put another way, if he was a stray, when she saved him from the sewers and all, then he became her dog. (She even pets him and later says "good boy, good boy" when he fights Ishii) But after Yoshii dies he sort of gets swept up into the Organo; her dog was taken from her.
I wish he would do Interviews and shit for Texhnolyze and Big O. Digimon got a lot more explanation than those two.
Ran is such a neat character. An interesting tidbit I believe is true is that whenever she's wearing her mask in public, she's sort of protecting herself by telling everyone around her not to fuck with her because she's Gabe.
Does anyone have any ideas for DEEP symbolism related to the Class statue? I always thought it was pretty neat how you see a miniature versions of it on the Organo desk throughout the entire show but it's not revealed that it's a Class design. Good visual representation that the Organo may rule Lux but they're still below the Class on the foodchain.
I just finished Ep. 19, Heavenward... Dang.
But really only the people of Gabe know what the mask means, and they all recognize her without it. Really she just dons the mask when she's at risk of expressing emotion it seems. Throne takes this up to 11 with her seemingly going back and forth in a short period, as if she's bipolar, or as if there's "two" Ran's.
No, about the only real analysis I've seen is this youtube guy's videos which go pretty in depth. He at least bothers to make the connection to the mouse experiment, and goes into the religious lore that probably influenced the Shapes' design.
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lmaoing my ass off at your life
>But really only the people of Gabe know what the mask means
That Racan that tried to molest Ran knew as soon as he saw the Gabe in their masks who they were
Ah, I forgot that, thank you. Still, he probably doesn't know the significant difference of her mask. I'm not sure if there's even another time someone references Ran's connection to Gabe based off of that. Shinji clearly sees her mask in the Dragon's Den but doesn't note it at all.
...
One ep to go. This is gonna hurt, I can tell
you have no idea
It's going to be even worse than you think
>kills an Sup Forums thread because you want to discuss texhnolyze
yeah fuck off
Sorry your shitty template fap thread died buddy, I'll send flowers
what's the matter, too deep for you? why don't you go watch something more your speed, a baby anime like lucky star perhaps.
I dont even watch anime, I just pretend I know what im talking about in discussions and anons will correct me if I get something wrong
Yeah i know what you mean, when i debate i kust side with the loudest person in the room. its easier that way
Okay. All done. Why was the blood coming out of the obelisk?
literally? no ome knows. symbolically? death of everything. death of Ran's mind, death of the texhnolyze.
worth noting that the dig site (the raffia) is right underneath the obelisk
Ah, that makes sense.
Yoshii
did
nothing
wrong
Seriously though, now that I see the whole picture his motivations make so much more sense. He was at least less wronger than anybody else.
he wasn't wrong at all. go look up the mouse utopia experiment and compare with what you see in texhnolyze. everything is there except mothers neglecting/killing their children. Yoshii was ahead of the curve and saw the decline in society, he saw the breakdown, how people have become complacent and apathetic, unwilling to better themselves or change their circumstances. Everyone including Shinji looked towards that hill or the surface as some great place that they wanted to get to someday, like how we all want to have some big ass house in malibu or whatever. But nobody actually did anything about it. Nobody strived to succeed or perservered to improve themselves.
As far as Yoshii was concerned, he was simply motivating some sheep to prevent their flock from dying. What's that line in Fight Club about wanting to beat the shit out of every panda that refused to mate to continue their species? Same deal. That's why everyone is drawn to Ichise; unlike them, he still perseveres.
Better yet, take the behavioral sink stuff and consider what goes on in today's society.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK47Azd6OO8 explains it within the contexts of texhnolyze
Thanks for that, I'll check it out.
I might rewatch this again. Been a long time. The scene when Ichise struggles with her new prosthetic limbs early on is pure kino.