What killed the mecha genre?

What killed the mecha genre?

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It takes a village to animate a mecha series, entire production committees have to be set up. Get more bang for the yen doing harem isekai shit

Tomino.

Digital animation

There are two mecha shows this season, what makes you think it's dead?

It takes a village and a production committee to animate anything, and there's no genre or premise that's guaranteed to make money.

Everything that was meant to save it in the 00s

1.Digital animation and CGI made mecha cheaper to animate, but they all look excessively bright and plastic like now due to it. Machines tend to look for better with the added grit you get from cell shading.

2. In the 00s. created started Incorporating mainstream non mecha elements, like a high school setting, more focus on dialogue than action, a focus on harem shit, etc over being more serious sci fi stories, to pull in a larger crowd.

As a mecha fan you have little reason not to mostly stick with old works where the anime still looked good, and your genre was still the trend setter rather than a trend follower; and if you are more of a mainstream anime person they can just hook you with waifu shows anyways, so why bother adding mecha?

There are no "waifu shows."

Digital animation + 720p HD.

Gundam

yes there are

There aren't because there can't be. A character cannot intrinsically be a waifu.

>As a mecha fan you have little reason not to mostly stick with old works where the anime still looked good
excuse me, but what mental disability do you suffer from? the amount of mecha anime from the 80s and 90s and have any artistic merit is incredibly minor. tomino couldnt manage to make a visually pleasing show until zeta, and even that has so much QUALITY that it might not even qualify. 0079, xabungle and so on look horrendoulsy bad. then you have the entirety of VOTOMS which is quite literally cancer for the eyes. not even gonna start on the abominations that are getter and buckethead. most of the visually impressive mecha shows from the pre 00s arent even actual mecha, such as macross plus or the prequel patlabor ovas. so no clue what the hell it is youre talking about.

The never ending shitty Gundam series

KyoAni shows are just waifu-containing shows. Sure, the girls there are only seasonal waifus, but waifuseseseseseses they are.

You have'nt seen much mecha.

Kyoani shows have no waifus in them because they cannot have any waifus in them. It's impossible.

i actually have. what exactly did you want me to list instead? shit like relic armor, m66, dominion, gayarth, dunbine? or maybe the abominations that the two megazone sequels? or fanservice shit like plastic little that has nothing but well animated tits? lets not forget dagram, galient or ideon, which wouldnt even look good enough to sell as childrens shows today since stuff like maruko-chan look significantly better. but i guess i forgot the visual masterpieces like vifam, mospeada or brainpowered. no wait, actually, those also look like fucking trash, particularly when compared to more modern entries.

you simply suffer from a mental disability, thats all there is to it. like, the only somewhat visually impressive mecha entries during the 80/90s (that arent movies) are arguably 0083, iczer (which is hardly even mecha), the first megazone ova, plus and patlabor (again hardly even mecha), the oguss ova (hardly even mecha) and flicks like robot carnival etc. but hey, remember that one funnel scene from CCA that didnt look like complete shit? yea, i do as well. spectacular hah. at the end of the day non-mecha shows like rahxephon or ttgl have more artistic merit than 95% of the mecha shows released pre00s. sorry user, but thats a fact.

I bet you prefer diebuster.

When I was a dumb little kid physically (mentally, I will forever remain one, proof being that I'm still watching anime), I liked all the shows that aired, simply because there never was enough content being aired anyway.

nah, gunbuster looks better but is a garbage ova nonetheless. diebuster on the other hand doest even have its visuals but instead a good op and ed.

BooBs

Models sell better

The amount of shitty Gundams and inferior Gundam clones Sunrise shat out.

using mecha as an allegory for puberty

Yeah, your eyes are just broken then. If you can't realize how high quality the art and animation in MZ23 part 2 and CCA is then you are the one with the disability, to say nothing of Zeorymer, 0080,08th, Gunbuster, Bubblegum Crisis, Maddox, Escaflowne, Gasaraki, Dangaioh, and yes, films like DYRL, Five Star Stories, and the Patlabor films, they still count to.

Not only that but even cheaper looking cell animated shows like Votoms look better than anything from 00s due to not having shitty overly glossy digipaint, which was the whole point, that aesthetic does'nt work for mecha shows. And not only that, but even shows like Macross have large segments ( most of the last third) that look better than 90% of 21st century mecha anime, and has a handful of movie level sakuga sequences that no modern works have been able to exceed.

He is literally a retard who loves CGshit and Hiraiface

also regarding ops question: what the hell are you on about? we have id0, franxx, ibo and knights and magic and fmp. the mecha genre clearly is thriving. on a more serious note: theres only so much you can do with giant robottos without it being stale. and for the show to be memorable and cant only look good. take thunderbolt as an example. it was probably the most visually inspired gundam show since stardust memory, yet no one really gives a shit about it because of its dislikeable cast, run of the mill narrative and dogshit second season that cut corners on every end. mecha isnt only dead because CGI isnt good enough to replace cel-animation yet, but mostly because the writers are fucking incompetent. the genres only savior is fafner and most people in west will dismiss because of MUH HIRAI FACE. all xebec does is product lowest common denominator garbage the generate funds for fafner. other studios cant be bothered to take those risks. after all, if you look at the successful mecha shows of the last decade youll find that most of them arent really mecha.

>MZ23 part 2 and CCA is
>quality animation
dunno user, a handful of well animated combat scenes are not what i would consider quality animation for a 2hr long feature film. especially for fucking 1988. almost every single one of yasuhikos works looks better, and the guy usually opperated on a shoestring budget compared to what tomino had at his disposal.

>like Votoms look better than anything from 00s due to not having shitty overly glossy digipaint
>look betta cuz me dislike
not an argument you mentally deranged nigger

why do you keep saying this when the only hirai show that i actually like is fafner? i dont think positively of seed, majestic prince, ryvius or, god forbid, fucking linebarrels.

Evangelion. Primarily it's cancerous fanbase, but also the fact that it's 2deep4u garbage is hailed as the second coming of fucking jesus.

>What is GaoGaiGar

>a handful of well animated combat scenes are not what i would consider quality animation for a 2hr long feature film
Yeah DYRL is overrated shit

Darling is bringing it back

Dunno lol

You need to go back and watch MZ23 part 2 again. You are'nt even accounting for the movie level effects animation near the end or the stunning character animation for the sex scene, and the fact that the mecha animation is top tiered, your memory is faulty on this one. It has great art and animation the entire way through.

For CCA, all the fight scenes were stunning, with brilliant use of perspective especially, the art was high level all the way and the character acting was strong through a lot of it. I agree that Arion and Venus Wars were more impressively visually, but CCA is a genuinely high quality work.

"I like it more" and "It is better" are equivalent statements when it comes to art evaluation, and yes, ugly ass undynamic Microsoft paint tier digipaint does look worse than dynamic but rough cell shading, the passive complexity that comes from hand painting something makes the colour design less boring.

actually no, it isnt. its the most visually impressive accomplishment of the entire artform and will most likely never be surpassed. not because of its animation, but because of the versatility of its environments. you need to stop to project you deficient little cunt. theres more to visuals than some shitty combat scenes. in fact, stil-frames very often hold more artistic merit than animated sequences do. but youre too much of a passive aggressive little pissant to realize that someone shit talking shit like CCA doesnt mean that he disapproved of everything 80s.

>theres only so much you can do with giant robottos

Has anyone ever made "hard sci-fi" mechas yet? In almost everything they move like your standard battle shounen character, and have beyond retarded controls and instruments.

>its the most visually impressive accomplishment of the entire artform
Not with its fugly color palette, jarring backgrounds, grainy video, and animation that isn't even that good

Mechs are somewhat related to sci-fi and that one died down culturally in the 80's -90's.

bait

well i mean, i guess votoms, megazone1, breakblade and patlabor are probably the closest you will get. you make it any more realistic and almost all the appeal of the subgenre is gone. who is supposed to be the target audience? also, like this guy just said . scifi isnt hardly even feasible at this point. theres a reason you dont see space operas anymore etc. (not like there were that many entries to begin with).

>It has great art and animation the entire way through.
i must be mixing up something then because i do not remember any of the sequel megazones to have artistic merit whatsoever.

>I agree that Arion and Venus Wars were more impressively visually, but CCA is a genuinely high quality work.
honestly, most parts of cca has worse animation than crusher joe, which is from the very early 80s. its not even necessary to bring up arion and venus wars. cca has good funnel scenes no doubt, but considering tominos budget, the fact that this was the final entry of the char plotline and its 2hrs in length, the OVERALL visuals simply are lackluster.

>that comes from hand painting
this meme needs to stop. people get what you mean, but digital art is still HAND DRAWN. it really doesnt matter what you think of the colorpalette or digital art as a whole. shows like votoms do by no means look better than rahxephons or ttgl. it doesnt matter how much you might hate either of them, you cant seriously believe that it does.

>jarring backgrounds
find a noose and use it.

Liking anything with Hisoyshi Hirai means you are a retard with no standards

do you have this comment saved in a text file?

The Patlabor manga was never translated into English and Patlabor hasn't had an animated entry (that was actually Patlabor) since the early 90s.

Hopefully EZY is good whenever it comes out.

Just because you like the ugly backgrounds in DYRL doesn't mean they're good

>ugly backgrounds in DYRL

youtu.be/84SqvC43qFQ
The soilder's are marching on a different battlefield you are posting on Sup Forums
Most mecha/Toku/Sentai/ related stuff is separated here on:
Instead of talking shit about
>derr why is mecha so dead?
Why not actually start a topic about current airing mecha anime that you like, on the mecha related board?
Nothing gets my hot blood boiling more than seeing, some ignorant on Sup Forums post something about mecha with little to no knowledge prior of where they are posting I gotta redirect them to the right place. Of course you are NOT going to see mecha related topics here on Sup Forums these anime genras on Sup Forums are separated to different boards.

I feel like I'm rambling
>What killed the mecha genre?
My guess the 04 Moe Boom

But cute as Moe' may be it can't replenish my HOT BLOOD
>G Gundam - Shining Finger Sword
youtu.be/HhwdPdtQs94

>current airing mecha anime that you like
The one that is airing now is the worst and most cancerous of all time

The fact that it's garbage by design.

Nobody making a good one outside of Gurren lagann and Neon genesis and original gundam

>this meme needs to stop. people get what you mean, but digital art is still HAND DRAWN

I never said otherwise, I said the difference between hand PAINTING vs digital PAINTING, not drawing. Natural painting has a higher degree of slight variations of color than digital painting does, you have to put TONS of effort into digital paint work to make it as complex and dynamic, and until recently we had no idea how to do it, hence why 00 shows look bad and really flat from a color design standpoint.

>honestly, most parts of cca has worse animation than crusher joe, which is from the very early 80s.

While Crusher Joe is very good, they are close to being on par. You are underrating sequences like these

sakugabooru.com/post/show/22987

Part 2 of MZ23 looks better than part 1

sakugabooru.com/post/show/39393

sakugabooru.com/post/show/39394

sakugabooru.com/post/show/39412

sakugabooru.com/post/show/39391

sakugabooru.com/post/show/23003

sakugabooru.com/post/show/23000

sakugabooru.com/post/show/17024

>shows like votoms do by no means look better than rahxephons or ttgl. it doesnt matter how much you might hate either of them, you cant seriously believe that it does.

Do you have an argument to back this up?

Eva

The people that consider anything good in the genre to not be mecha.

>Mechs are somewhat related to sci-fi and that one died down culturally in the 80's -90's.
>scifi isnt hardly even feasible at this point.
But we have more robots than we've ever had. Roombas zoom at our feet and drones fly over our heads. Every university ever is making a human-sized bipedal robot, prosthetic hand, AI waifu or something like that. Mecha is everywhere.
Japan wake the fuck up.

>What killed the mecha genre?
That's a strong answer
Answer me OP,
The School of the Undefeated of the East!
youtu.be/1AoN6mr3cQ8

>non-mecha shows like rahxephon or ttgl
>tengen toppa guren lagann
>not mecha
serious question, what exactly is your definition of a mecha show then?
Also, most of the brave series looked great specially since they were mostly toy commercials first and a shows second

Gurren Lagann is shounenshit and RahXephon is teen school setting haremshit

that doesn't answer my question
what exactly is a mecha series then? I was under the (apparently mistaken) idea that a mecha series is a series that prominently features mecha.

>hence why 00 shows look bad and really flat from a color design standpoint
i dont have the slightest clue what youre even referring to here? character shading? because the overall palette is mostly dependant on the level of saturation and basic design. i just went ahead and took two random shots. first is from an ova you approved of yourself, second of an 00s tv show. please explain your statement to me by comparing them.

> they are close to being on par. You are underrating sequences like these
i mean, even if we were to agree on that, dont you think that this is a pretty pitiful results for a gundam production that release more than half a decade later, operating on a higher budget? its even shorter.

>Do you have an argument to back this up?
votoms looks like a run of the mill early 80s mecha show, while both ttgl and rahxephon are aesthetic masterpieces with more creativity in a single episode than votoms has in almost its entire tv feature. the character designs are flat, lack detail and are overall incredibly simplistc while still forcing rainbow hair to make them look unique. honestly, when you talked about flat color design at the start of the post, the first thing that popped into my head of was in fact votoms. the utter lack of a creative spark is staggering. but considering your almost unreasonable hate for digital art there isnt much of a point in even continuing this debate. not even gonna bother to compare the rest of the production values, such as animation or acoustics.

its not mine, its /m/'s. and for something like rahxephon i even partially agree. at its core, its a romance/coming of age story. you could remove the mechs and not much would change. would obviously need to rewrite the whole thing but at its core the mechs arent essential for the narrative to work.

>haremshit
end yourself

Gundam.

>would obviously need to rewrite the whole thing but at its core the mechs arent essential for the narrative to work.
So I guess neither gundam (you could replace mechs with space fighters) nor getter robo (you could replace mechs with a gadget powered by getter energy that gives super powers) are mecha series?

I actually agree with what you say to an extent, besides Raxephon and TTGL not being mecha? I mean, sure, to an extent, but come on user they are almost pretty much mecha as far as how they're presented.

Does /m/ really think ttgl is not mecha?
Fuck I knew they were pendantic retards but not to this extent.

>the mechs arent essential for the narrative to work.
Not that user, but I feel like the mechs just make it feel so much better. The narrative would work, you're right, but I feel like because the mechs are something that's so integrated into the world surrounding the characters too, the "feel" of the rest of the show would be missing. Albeit, you can remove the mechs and the story can still be told fine, but I still feel like it would make Rahxephon a lesser product. Maybe that's because I enjoyed the designs and the world too much though.

It's more of a vocal minority I believe. /m/ sort of just talks about anything that falls within the 'technological' side of media, it's just that because they don't like ttgl, shitposters try to say it's not mecha. I'm sure that the majority just accept that it is, but either join in for needless shitposting or don't say anything at all because they don't really care.

also:
>school setting
ayato is in school a single episode of the whole show you illiterate mongre. maybe try paying attention next time.

well the thing with gundam is that its technically a war drama. it still tries to have some sort of realism, where the pilots arent superhumans (although sometimes they suddenly are) who need the mechs to fight.

rahxephon for example operates on a more emotional and psychological level, putting a strong emphasis on the impact of music. technically speaking, the main mech is nothing but a tool for the pilot to grow up. its somewhat required for him to retune the world, but by the end ayato is more of a god than your average 18 year old. the shows themes arent really "mecha typical", which is why a lot of people dont consider it one. i think that its fine for them to do so, but i also dont mind people calling it a mecha show. but i can see why its not really "traditional".


>but I feel like the mechs just make it feel so much better
i agree. i am hardpressed to say that show could even be as impeccable as it is if you were to remove the mechs.

Mecha is mostly shit and I've seen a lot of it. The best anime are versatile and don't have to shoehorn in robots.

>Mecha is mostly shit
agreed. in my experience its the most hit or miss subgenre in the entire artform.

Yeah but when it hits, oh boy does it fucking hit - whether you like it or not, some of the biggest shows have been mecha.

You are being disingenuous by choosing a particularly artistic cinematic shot from Moririto, while taking a stock standard shot from BGC. This is what Moriboto looks like 90% of the time, so I am going to compare it with this one, since it is actually a fair comparison.

Leon's hair actually looks like hair with multiple strands instead of being a block, he has more details in the face and is shaded in 4 major tones, with each tone having minor variation in color on each one. If you look just above his right eye over the shadow line there are bits that get lighter within the lighter shade just along the edge of the shadow. Within the shadow on his nose the the bottom edges are actually slightly darker than the inner part of the shading, and two larger shades are used to create the shadow and the illusion of depth.The shadow on his hair is slightly lighter around the edges as well. Leon's neck actually has detail in it that represents the human bone structure, and facial tension is being represented by a wrinkle on his brow. Leon has minute hatching on the side of his face where some scruff meets his sideburns. They also utilize shading and hatching to make his nose look more three dimensional.

Compare that to Moribito, which has two tones, next to no facial detail and no sub-shades for each shade. Color wise the face is almost entirely flat, as if it was filled in with a "fill" button on Microsoft paint, it is mostly empty space filled with one really bland color.

The Moribito's character's nose is one dot, one short line and a singular block of slightly darker shading underneath. Leon's nose has three separate tones, an actual nostril, hatching to make it three dimensional, and a bridge that actually connects up to the eyes like a real person does. The Moriboto character looks like a flat undetailed blobbish alien, Leon looks like an animated man.

Leons face has detail and character to it, the Moriboto blob just looks like a flat blob.

>i mean, even if we were to agree on that, dont you think that this is a pretty pitiful results for a gundam production that release more than half a decade later, operating on a higher budget?

No. It is more a testament to how good Crusher Joe was. Money only gets you so far as well.

>while both ttgl and rahxephon are aesthetic masterpieces with more creativity in a single episode than votoms has in almost its entire tv feature

Chirrico actually has a nose and some facial detail, unlike Simon. And I don't see what is so "artistic" about those shows. The general complaints I made about color design in Moriboto easily applies to TTGL and Rahxephon vs Votoms, even if Votoms does have a rougher look to it and has less fluid animation.

>Leon's hair actually looks like hair with multiple strands
ahem, that simply comes from the fact that its combed back. go to the bathroom and compare your hair while laying flat on your heard and while its combed back.

>Within the shadow on his nose the the bottom edges are actually slightly darker
i have 3 properly calibrated screen all of which were 1.5k each and there is no difference here. not even photoshop is able to pick it up. if anything thats color irregularities from the film the show was shot on, but theres nothing that can be spotted by the human eye.

> They also utilize shading and hatching to make his nose look more three dimensional
its almost like the amount of shading is dependent on the amount of light on the given scene. the only reason that shot has "4" shades is because outright black is one of them. thats a stilistic decision that, from a visual standpoint, is more retarded than it makes sense. especially in a scene like that the shadow wont ever be so dark that its pure black. you might prefer it, but it still is bad and overbearing design.

>Leon's nose has three separate tones
are you mentally ill? its a the skin color + shading. there are no tonal differences. its black structure lining, skin color, and shading below and to the left, 3 shades no more. what sort of disfunctional TN panel are you using?

>a flat undetailed blobbish alien, Leon looks like an animated man.
artistic choice for that particular character, nothing related to the posibility of the art form during the 00s. example from the very same show vgy.me/1YmLa2.png

>this shot
all right we are done here. this concludes that votoms has more artistic merit than nausicaa, afterall the characters also lack noses and facial shading. vgy.me/ZgVrVR.png

i should have realize earlier that this would boil down to you being one of those mentally challeged nosal-fags

vampires on space

CGI

>but theres nothing that can be spotted by the human eye.

Then you eyes are broken because I see it just fine. Photoshop is not an authority here either.

>thats a stilistic decision that, from a visual standpoint, is more retarded than it makes sense. especially in a scene like that the shadow wont ever be so dark that its pure black. you might prefer it, but it still is bad and overbearing design.

No that's just you having shit taste. Utilization of black like that makes the shots more dynamic and detailed and thus more interesting to look at.

The shot of the old man is still pathetic from a coloring standpoint, even if it has a sufficient amount of line detail.

Yeah that shot from Moribito is better.Too bad that makes up a tiny minority of the shots in that show ( which is one of the best looking ones of the decade, at that), where the shot you gave of BGC is pretty standard detail wise, especially as the series went on.

>this concludes that votoms has more artistic merit than nausicaa, afterall the characters also lack noses and facial shading

But Nausica actually has a nose with a real bridge on it there, not a shitty dot that makes them look like Voldemort like Simon.

>freyja53
Is there link with all of these?

shows like darling in the franxx

Yep, this is it. The number of studios actually capable of making hand-drawn mecha is practically zero now, and the digital ones still look like shit.

I wish we could get a mech show like front mission, either the game or the manga.

>Photoshop is not an authority here either.
who do i believe? photoshops color pick tool or some random on the internet? tough choice. an unbiased piece of software, or a possibly biased human being.

>Utilization of black like that makes the shots more dynamic and detailed
absolutely delusional. pic related as an example of what this boils down to. theres nothing "impossible" about what youre asking for. its no more than a stylistic choice that, in regards to properly emulating lighitng sources, is a fucking retarded thing to do. i am not saying that it looks bad per se, but throwing a hissy fit over series' distancing themselves from extremes is utterly retarded. this doesnt add anything substantial to the shot itself, it just would bloat the amount of "shades" given the respective compairson.

>you gave of BGC is pretty standard detail wise, especially as the series went on.
oh please, now dont cherry pick the 2 episodes of BGC that look good. episodes 7 and 8 by the way
vgy.me/gFToGZ.png
vgy.me/0CTMeP.png
vgy.me/dQxplM.png

then again, youre very good at it so its pretty pointless to ask this.

>But Nausica actually has a nose with a real bridge on it there, not a shitty dot that makes them look like Voldemort like Simon.
youre just picking shit depending on what you like. first its the shading, then its the nosal structure. if it suits youre agenda, then shading doesnt matter but its nosal structure. if shading IS a thing, then the focus is being shifted to nosal structure. very convenient. at least be consistent and expect both to be present if youre unable to understand the artistic choice being made by the respective studios.

no, i made them myself.

I remember the first time I saw Code Geass, I got so hyped by the first fight scene because nothing in it looks totally impossible. The mechs are pretty clunky at that point but still have nice moves because of the rollerblade things on their legs, the weapons are very believable, and the controls make decent sense. Moreover, it just looked and felt meaty, impacts were heavy, a huge ol' chunk of metal to the face was a standard attack with those grappling hook things. Then someone decided to powercreep it almost immediately with the Guren, which meant Lancelot had to be made stronger, and so on until by the time S2 started it was fully super robot with the older mechs being nothing but cannon fodder.

I was pissed. One of the biggest reasons why R1>R2, along with people just acting more intelligently in R1 in general.

Even with the power creep, S1 fights still all felt rather kinectic and were generally exciting because they were still generally melee battles and were well choreographed, even in the last episode of S1.

S2's biggest sin really was introducing flight and giant lasers that could wipe out hundreds of enemies at once. That way they got ultra lazy with the battle choreography which basically just turned into either individual ships jousting endlessly or large scale battles that were just two tides flying at each other.

I really hope S3 finds an excuse to remove flight because that was seriously the worst addition to the series.

lolis

The genre is dead? I guess that’s why R3 is literally “Lelouch of the RESSURRECTION”

HYPE, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!

didn't you hear? according to /m/ code geass is not mecha because you could replace the mecha with other things and the show still would make sense

I guess I'll have to do the same.

i mean, this thing exists. if youre fine with smaller sized ones you can just use those i suppose.

There's literally one good AU Gundam with X. G is way too long and really dull, Turn A is technically I guess far, far, far end of the UC, everything else is garbage.

Then again the last couple of UC stuff (Unicorn and G-Reco) haven't been great either.

i just realized that those actually are 300x300, thats not even bad.

>who do i believe? photoshops color pick tool or some random on the internet?

The one with working eyes and not a limited computer algorithm. Try looking carefully at the very left corner of the shadow on Leon's nose, it is slightly darker than the sub-shade that comes right before the black part. That is because in hand painting color is not distributed evenly, and gets slightly lighter and darker depending on how the individual painted it. It is passively more complex. Another thing to focus in on is that line between the dark and light brown on Leon's hair, which has a kind of grey tint to it. It is subtle stuff that makes a big difference.

>oh please, now dont cherry pick the 2 episodes of BGC that look good. episodes 7 and 8 by the way.

7 and 8 look the best, but the show was on an upward trajectory after looking quite good even in the first episode.

>youre just picking shit depending on what you like. first its the shading, then its the nosal structure.

I forgot to mention shading in that post. Anyways, Nausicaa has a real nose, the facial detail is often there, has some dynamic shading, and most importantly the hand coloring that allows for dynamic subtle color changes within single shades is there, just like with Votoms. Now, neither Votoms nor Nausicaa are at the level of something higher tier like Megazone 23, Iczer 1, BGC etc in terms of character art, but there would be no reason to dismiss Nausicaa's character art in comparison to Votoms like I am with 00s anime - Votoms does'nt have THAT much shading either after all. Both look better than 00s anime though, primarily due to character design choices, and the passive complexity of hand painting. Where something like BGC wins out on all fronts.

That shot you gave mostly has issues with how flat the coloring itself is due to being digital, rather than amount of shades it has. I should clarify that I don't think all 00s stuff looks awful 100% of the time, it was a major downgrade though.

Still waiting on that answer OP...

>>The one with working eyes and not a limited computer algorithm
again, i have 3 properly calibrated screen. two of which are IPS and the third is VA panels with arguably the highest contrast ratio on the market right now. neither photoshop nor my eyes give a different color code. stop trying.

>Another thing to focus in on is that line between the dark and light brown on Leon's hair, which has a kind of grey tint to it. It is subtle stuff that makes a big difference.
it actually doesnt because its not visible in a moving frame. keep trying though, its pretty adorable i gotta say.

>7 and 8 look the best
then its a pretty sad testament that those shots look at bad as they do, now isnt it?

>That shot you gave mostly has issues with how flat the coloring itself is due to being digital
so to put it simple: you dont actually have a point. flat is a buzzword you abuse without there being much meaning to it. a given cel-animated facial shot consists of 4 colors, but someone managed to be
"deeper" than the digital shot using the exact same amount of shades and colors. very substantial, gotta say. sounds to me like you simply want everything to have grain, since that creates some sort of pseudo color depth to you, even though the base designs being about as simplistic as many from the 00s. the shot you just provided gives me literally nothing by the way. what am i supposed to be seeing here?

>LOL 2 SHADES FOR ZE FACE HAHA :DDD
whats the supposed color depth here? the accessories? well thats just lame so lets cut them. all right now wheres the depth? oh right, its non existent. if anything its the grain which related to the way the show was shot, not how it was made.
vgy.me/tYbGZU.png

SNK is doing pretty well, and every year there's one or other mecha anime.

you are a fucking moron

Well ,there is nothing I can do if your eyes don't work and you try to rely on technology to overcome your short comings. Maybe you are just being dishonest now? Who knows.

I only said that that shot of Priss in general looks good( but not as good as BGC would get). You discounting the shading on her accessories is a dishonest way to argue here, "well thats just lame" is not a justification in the slightest. She still has a well defined nose, interesting multiple shiny parts on her lips, slight hatching to represent the lines of a real face and minor variations in color within the shades and in the lines between the shades.

>it actually doesnt because its not visible in a moving frame. keep trying though, its pretty adorable i gotta say.

Again, your eyes not working right or you being dishonest is the problem here. At this point we are either just seeing entirely different things or you are being dishonest, so I don't really know where to go from here.

Oh and yes, you managed to cherry pick a few cheaper shots from episode 8, congrats. Too bad the show usually looks like this during that episode. To say nothing of episode 7, which is probably the peak of the franchise visually.

>You discounting the shading on her accessories is a dishonest way to argue here
it actually isnt because its just shot composition. if we put an emphasis on facial details and shading then accessories dont matter. theres nothing dishonest about it, its just about providing at even ground for comparison. or do you want me to compare some shitty office building from BGC to background from Tekkon Kinkreet?

> She still has a well defined nose
you dont seem to get that a well defined nose has LITERALLY nothing to do with artistic merit or someones ability to properly emulate it. its an artistic choice, no more no less. see pic related. OH SHIT NO NOSE. FACES CONSISTING OF TWO SHADES NO PLEASE HELP

youre not even arguing the point anymore. youre just posting random shots of which you quite LITERALLY say that they "look good" (in your opinion). theres nothing substantial about this. at the same time you also lack the ability to understand that its not the artistic direction that creates the pseudo color depth you keep referring to, but the grain. oh shit, a well defined nose vgy.me/FcHQOc.png

>At this point we are either just seeing entirely different things
considering the fact how youre using google images as your example shots, meaning that you apparently dont even have the fucking files saved, i am not surprised we see different things.

Kids aren't into mecha like in the past. They like fighting anime.

>at the same time you also lack the ability to understand that its not the artistic direction that creates the pseudo color depth you keep referring to, but the grain

Sorry, but this is just false. You repeating a false point over and over again won't make it true - anyone who has physically painted art in their life knows what I am talking about.

And yes, sometimes older anime lacks strong noses, sometimes later anime had more well defined noses. I'm talking about general tendencies, not absolute ones.

>you dont seem to get that a well defined nose has LITERALLY nothing to do with artistic merit

False dichotomy, all artistic merit is equivalent to "I like this thing for this reason" it's always a conditional statement, not an absolute one. I've made it clear that I think more detail is better and judge according to that standard.

>meaning that you apparently dont even have the fucking files saved

That is completely irrelevant.

>I'm talking about general tendencies
general tendencies are irrelevant. if some of the most acclaimed works of the artform do not care about your superficial definition of "quality" (which in this case is detailed facial structure with a focus on a persons nose), then it clearly is not as important as you make it out to be. artistic merit and creativity are not related to the amount of facial structre a cast sports. in fact, almost all of the most acclaimed works this artform has ever produced have fairly simplistic character designs. some more noses, or lack thereof.
vgy.me/ZboNXX.png
vgy.me/ZQ1NJX.png
you have a nosal and shading fetish, thats all there is to it. however, in the grand spectrum neither of those have much artistic merit, unless they are as over the top as they are in something like d bloodlust.

>I've made it clear that I think more detail is better
but thats a lie. youve made it clear that you think that more CHARACTER DETAIL is better. after all, most of BGCs backgrounds and objects are not only very simplistic, even by last 80s/early 90s standards, but also incredibly generic. otherwise you shouldnt have approached this conversation the way you did, talking about ttgls and rahxephons character designs instead of the overall artistic approach, detailing and creativity of the art direction.

>That is completely irrelevant.
its highly relevant when you try to talk about very small color discrepancies while probably using some heavily compressed, low resolution screenshots of lackluster encodes.

Nothing.