Eoe

>kimochi warui
what did she mean by this?

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She found out he jerked off to her in the hospital while she was unconscious and found out about his every dirty little secret.

What did the master mean by this ?

I think Shinji fugged Asuka

No, she is just pregnant and she has morning sickness.

is this a real theory?

yeah been floating around for years, personally don't buy into it, but there are a few clues for some peoples.
But it always basically revolves around interpreting that she doesn't have her period in episode 22 but actually morning sickness. Which I don't buy since it's pretty clearly her period and that pretty much discards the theory entirely.
That is of course except if you also believe the theory according to which Asuka and Shinji had sex, but not the classic one stating they banged in episode 15 (too simple, not deep enough you see), but in fact around episode 23 after or before the coffee fight (which is another interesting theory itself).
Other arguments for it include the slight bulge on her belly when she's naked in the bathroom in episode 22 (which is also discarded if you buy into the "sex between eps 22 and 23" theory).
This post was brought to you by Evangelion : 20 years of autism and counting.

And I forgot, the thing that started this theory was a declaration of Asuka's seiyu in an interview saying she imagined the feeling of morning sickness to find the right tone to deliver this line or something like that.

>entangled
thats what he meant

it doenst make sense that they had sex, becuase she was pissed he jerked off instead of just fucking her

Kimochi warui is a generic phrase for "I don't feel good", it's used by men and women alike. Stop this shitposting you fucking pigs.

She was clearly just having cramps from her period. When she has her freak out yelling in the bathroom there's a real quick shot of her gripping her sides, and then later when she's in the public bathroom at NERV talking to herself, the water is running in the sink, meaning she probably just took some pills for her cramps, that's it.

>Which I don't buy since it's pretty clearly her period and that pretty much discards the theory entirely.
Just tell us, why it is 'clearly' hr period? She has the signs of morning sickness, not having a period. Also, there are a lot of other clues, like the wall of Jericho. In the Bible, the walls of Jericho are penetrated after seven days, and look up what happened in the show a week after her declaration. You wanted to discredit the theory the theory, but miserably failed to do so, and you had no counter arguments. Shame on you.

If they did have sex the "You won't even hold me" line in ep22 would make a lot of sense.
Shinji does seam like the type that doesn't even know how to fuck a girl who's on top

shinji almost certainly fugged asuka

japanese is subtle language

she never says she's on her period. misato says that. asuka says "I don't NEED a child," not desire, need. very conspicuous verbiage

shinji says the same thing about his father. "iranai"

ritsuko teases misato that her "play family" is ending. implying it is ending by becoming real

ritsuko says something like "physical conditions: cant affect her synch ratio. but pregnancy isn't a physical condition.

the entire 5 episodes after are all about pregnancy

it really is hammered home. she is either pregnant or afraid she is

It's clearly her period because Misato says so in the previous scene and I assume that's something she'd know.
It wouldn't make any sense to have this line thrown in, then cutting to Asuka having cramps in the bathroom, except to show that Asuka indeed has her period (and is pissed about it since she's a tomboy in disguise).
I don't discard the sex theory, I discard the pregnancy theory.
It's really "one level too deep" in terms of storytelling ; since you already have to believe a first theory (the sex one) to get to the pregnancy one. And even Anno isn't that much of an asshole to his viewer, that would just be pretentious 2D4U on purpose from his part.
So if the clues were left here intentionally for this theory, it's just to leave it as a possible interpretation, not a definitive fact in the story.
For me not cannon at all, but an interesting interpretation nonetheless.

I actually thought she was pregnant the very first time I watched it.

I think anno made a different story for different people, t b h d e s u

some people cling to the "I can do it, be confident" message

some people cling to the "robots bang bang" level, or the "mai aifu" level

he clearly layered the meaning. e.g. look at asukas flashbacks. she has mental images of a singles bento, from ep. 2, that had a person talking about taking her son, and leaving her husband to flee tokyo 3

he clearly layers meaning on purpose

This.

How would Misato know? She might think that she has it, but Asuka doesn't have it, because she is pregnant. So it's not clear at all. She says something along the lines:"Why do I have to go through this, I don't even want kids." This can also apply to pregnancy. She is not having cramps, she has morning sickness.
You clearly don't know what pretentious means, go look it up.
Art is not about telling you straight on everything, you have to pick up on the small hints that were left. And medium like anime and movies, that mix many fields of art can express things other ways than spoonfeeding you.

by the way this was Asuka's English VA that started this theory so its even less credible

This theory is insane since neither Shinji nor Asuka was ever in any mental condition to actually have sex with eachother at any point in the story. It would have ended in a disaster if either one of them even attempted it.

the actual translation is something closer to

"something as terrible as this happened to ME(surprise)? I don't NEED a kid"

something surprising happened. and it is bad.
more so than she is used to. periods are not surprising.

they translate the subs to match to the dub. the dub is changed to fit the mouth movements of the chars

they really, really fucked up the translation

it DID end in disater. did you even finish the series?

>You won't even hold me" line in ep22 would make a lot of sense.
It already makes a lot of sense with the failed kiss alone mind you.

It did end in disaster.
And for me them having sex around episode 23 just before the "coffee fight" makes more sense than around epsiode 15, for a few reasons including this one.
First of all, Asuka is wearing Misato's "metaphorically not for children" shirt again in the coffee fight scene (beginning of ep 24 and EoE). And in EoE the "2 frame sex scene" between Asuka and Shinji comes right before the coffee fight flashback.
It also comes chronologically a really short while after she was forced by Arael to see that she felt something for Shinji but also that he's one useless fucker that won't even hold her.
She resents him for not saving her (shown again in the next episode when they send him to help rei) and also probably for failing to comfort her in the slightest at the end of the episode.
Finally Asuka asks Shinji about Kaji, which would make a lot of sense from her if she just had a really disappointing first time with Shinji not holding her and shit.
So it would make sense that she sorta snapped and basically just tried to mount him after screaming to him she hates his guts. And Shinji, as usual confused as fuck, didn't do a thing about it.

It's up for interpretation, but personally, I feel like it works best as just a all-around statement on the general situation; Asuka could have said it in response to pretty much every single aspect of the shitshow she was in, from how the entire human race was dead or how she still has feelings for Shinji after all this or how the last man on the planet is sobbing in a ball on her chest or how she lost against the MPEVAs or Instrumentality in general.

Just saying that she said it due to morning sickness, in my opinion, has always been a stupid theory; There's no fucking way Asuka would have been able to rebound from the rejection in Episode 15 quickly enough to fuck him in the same night, and she's a suicidally depressed wreck by 23. Also, Shinji is Shinji.

asukas entire mind break revolves around the fact she's no longer a virgin

she probably fugged him again right before the coffee scene tho

it didn't have to be the same night. it could have been the night after

also asuka NEVER goes mute on screen. its reasonable to assume she is functional until the coffee scene

always thought she was just trying to reassure shinji by acting the same as usual

periods are directly related to fertility, its not uncommon to relate them to having children especially if you hate them

Asuka's mind break revolves around the fact that she has to be forced to confront her incredibly suppressed insecurities, relive incredibly traumatic moments, and feel every single part of her inner thoughts be taken part and violated by an intruder. If anything, this part works against the sex theory, because it doesn't even show them fucking each other.

The kiss scene is the part in the show when Shinji and Asuka's relationship goes to hell, I imagine she wouldn't try fucking him literally a day after that happened.

suicide anthem for patricians
youtube.com/watch?v=oIscL-Bjsq4

is this a flashback or Shiji's wishful thinking in EoE:

forgot pic

Sex being implied between Shinji and Asuka is really forced. The most simple exploitation is that the have only kissed (which Shinji fucked up).

dude, she held his nose forcing him to hold his breath for the whole thing. He would have fucked up regardless, not because of him, anything he did, she wouldn't have liked it and blamed him for ruining it.

The kiss scene is representative of Shinji's entire relationship with Asuka; he could easily have gotten closer to her in the moment, but immediately crumbles at the slightest hint of resistance like the pussy he is. His breath being held wasn't something to condone, but I doubt he couldn't have tried pulling her closer or taking her hand off or anything.

>tried pulling her closer or taking her hand off or anything.
even if he did she still would have hated it, and blamed him for ruining the moment. There's nothing he could have done to satisfy her because she doesn't even know what she wants. Auska may be the most realistic female character in all of anime.

you are a shinji

you are correct girls cant figure out the things they actually need. but asuka needed shinji to hold her. period.

I think you read too much fanfiction.

> fanfiction

she keeps asking for shinji to hold her. it's literally the only thing she needs

the only thng shinji needs is the "gentle touch"

you're just emotionally stunted

>this image
>people still think he fucked her

Nobody thinks he fucked her.
People think she fucked him.
Which is quite different.

I disagree. I think asuka would have been surprised but allowed herself to be held. She'd act like it didn't happen the next day, however.

I don't think it's wrong to think she'd freak out during the kiss if Shinji tried anything either. We have the advantage of seeing what's going on inside her head. Shinji doesn't.

If she tried to fuck him, it would have shown up in her mind as her reason for being mad at him. The one thing that was shown, is that she was mad he didn't hold her during the kiss.

it's funny, i just rewatched EoE in it's german dub and that was my first thought by what she says in german, of course i know the original translation and i read up about Anno telling the va to imagine someone jerking over her sleeping body but besides that i noticed a frame in 26' with what looks like Asuka on top of Shinji and it actually would make a lot of sense if they slept together

post frame and timestamp

>and she's a suicidally depressed wreck by 23
oh yeah because there aren't depressed as fuck people who are willing to do literally anything to feel better, like fucking someone in hope it will make them feel less lonely

of what exactly, the frame of Asuka on top of Shinji was posted already and in german she says "Mir ist schlecht" which just means I feel sick

"How disgusting."

The EVA battles are representative of the pilots' regular lives. Sometimes this is shown visually, like in this image.

Separately, the comparison between the kids and the adults is saying that ultimately they're not that different - the kids are being forced to take on a more mature role than they're ready for (both in the Evas and in regular society due to puberty) while the adults are less mature than they really should be (like most people, who are not exactly model adults and will be immature in some specific ways).

Also, I suppose Kaji and Misato haven't really moved on from dancing around each other like Shinji and Asuka currently are?

Is pic related just a meme ?

It’s the ending equivalent of “I’m so fucked up”

> Also, I suppose Kaji and Misato haven't really moved on from dancing around each other like Shinji and Asuka currently are?
Yeah there are quite a lot of others parallels between Kaji-Misato / Shinji-Asuka thorughout the serie and even in eoe.
Everytime Misato and Kaji's relationship moves forward, it is always followed or preceded by a Shinji-Asuka scene. You have this here in ep 11 but also in ep 9 (wall of jericho while Kaji and Misato kiss in the elevator) and ofc in ep 15 (both kiss).
Also in EoE the short sex scene between Shinji and asuka is shown immediately after Kaji and Misato banging.
Only exception is the Kaji-Misato sex secene at the end of episode 20.

>dostedt
what did he mean by this?

Anno should have stuck with the original line, which was something along the lines of "I'd never let you kill me."

Even better would have been Asuka saying something which matches the overall theme of the EoE, such as an affectionate "baka."

Instead, we got this. But who knows? The incomprehension of the scene is why it is still discussed today.

Yep. Also the combined meetings in episode 8 (more of a re-meeting for Misato and Kaji, but you get the point).

...

After everything she's been through it's the natural response.
They'll sort things out from there. Not like anyone else is left.

It's a representation of Instrumentality, same thing happens with Rei.

good summary user

anno echoes a common sentiment, that no one after 1940 had an adult role model as a child. the adults at the time lived under the oppression of u.s. occupation, and so no one ever had a model for strength, and this echoed across the generations

shinji and asuka probably bang around ep 20 tho

Actually being able to feel bad things means she knows she's not inside instrumentality anymore.

And there's a lot to kimochi warui about.

I personally see no reason to believe that Shinji and Asuka have sex at any point (assuming you don't count that time in EoE during Instrumentality). Nothing in the entire series acts as convincing evidence for it to me. Asuka straight-up hates Shinji after the kiss scene, and does everything she can to avoid him from then on (with a couple of exceptions, like visiting him in hospital but trying not to be seen) because she feels he rejected her. It's also pretty ridiculous to claim they had sex before the kiss, as otherwise they would not be so awkward in that scene. Add on that Shinji would absolutely never initiate, and you have a grand total of 0 sex. Everything else is just not concrete enough to even call it a decent theory imo - ultimately there's no reason why Asuka's pains shouldn't just be a period (periods are symbolically important in their own right in Eva, see Rei vs. Armisael).

>Asuka straight-up hates Shinji after the kiss scene
No she doesn't.
I agree with most you say about the proofs (but at the same time, that's why they're called theories), but you're mixing three different theories into one refutation.
Personnally I think it's pretty plausible for Asuka to initiate sex between episodes 22 and 23 or 23 and 24. Of course there's nothing definitive to absolutely support or absolutely disprove this theory (that's what's fun about finding clues).
But the pregnancy theory, the "sex at ep 15" one or the "sex after ep 22" one are all different.

>The EVA battles are representative of the pilots' regular lives
i always thought of the battles as a representation of their inner battles between themselves and the others surrounding them

It's very possible to hate someone while being attracted to them. I think Asuka is too prideful to have sex with such a person.

Between episode 22 and waking up in EoE, Asuka literally doesn't want to be anywhere near anybody. She goes on an enormous rant about how she hates literally every single person in her life, herself included (especially, in fact!)

My point is simply that it's unlikely to happen spontaneously, and there is no good evidence that it happened anyway. I can't disprove it, but now we're at Russell's Teapot - I have no need to disprove a claim that is, as far as I can tell, totally unsupported. I'd be interested to hear what "clues" you think there are, because I honestly think there's a 0% chance that they have sex at any point in the series.

The idea they had sex breaks the whole idea behind "hedgehogs dilemma" that the show pushes to the viewer.It also makes the hospital scene look like a major plot hole.

Yes, that's pretty much what I () meant. Their regular lives are largely comprised of inner battles and social struggles, after all.

>I think Asuka is too prideful to have sex with such a person.
man she's a fucking 13 year old, give her a break

Agreed. It would be such an enormous step in their relationship, for better or worse (probably worse), that Anno would have no choice but to make it clear if they did have sex imo.

>The idea they had sex breaks the whole idea behind "hedgehogs dilemma
how so?

I don't follow. Do you just mean that 13 year olds are horny? I mean, personally I kinda missed out on this phenomenon (didn't really feel sexual urges at all until I was about 15, maybe 16), but I simply don't believe that any attraction Asuka had would totally overpower her pride like that to make such a move when she's already been absolutely mortified by Shinji's "rejection" in the kiss scene. Also, I just didn't think she came across as that thirsty in general (she makes a few jokey, provocative moves, like the thermal expansion and such, but that's it). If you meant something else, pls clarify.

the closer they get (fugging) the more painful it becomes

their pain reaches a crescendo around the same time

it is perfectly compatible

youtube.com/watch?v=PcXGgjyV4WA
this vid is a pretty good summary of the main clues for the basic "Shinji and Asuka had sex" theory, and you can see for the specific clues about the episode 22-23 sex theory.
Not really a Rusell Teapot imo.
For my part, I like to think that Anno left these clues intentionally, to leave it open as an interpretation to the viewer.
Either you only believe what's explicitly stated on the screen, either you want to make sense of all the small loose ends here and there.
But it will always remain a theory, or an ambiguity in the story, which I really like, it's not at all a definitive fact.

Not really, sex has not much to do with emotional closeness, especially if they had sex only once, and especially if this first time for them was disappointing for both (which, if we consider they had sex, is the only kind of sex they might have had : unsatisfying, cold and awkward).

The moment they have sex is the moment they drop their fear of being hurt. Sex is supposed to be a vulnerable thing couples do, hence it feeling good on the libido.

If Asuka did have sex, it wouldn't have caused the downfall of her sync score.

Asuka's attitude shifted since Shinji pulled away in episode 12.

>the absolute STATE of Asukacucks

>Asuka's attitude shifted since Shinji pulled away in episode 12
Not really, she only starts to change when he surpasses her synch ratio for the frist time in episode 16. In episdoe 12 she's pissed when she sees how fast Shinji's going up but she still seem pretty chill after, once she digested the news.
Also I don't think having a shitty first time with someone she still feels rejects her just after being mindraped could have helped her synch ratio go up again.

>sex has not much to do with emotional closeness
In the context of Eva, it is as close as two human beings can be together (which is why Instrumentality is absolutely littered with sex metaphors, because it's meant to be closer still). I think this is why we see Shinji and Asuka having sex in Instrumentality in EoE - it's just yet another sex parallel, this time very blatant as Instrumentality is happening right then and there.

I have nothing against making theories based on clues, but I find the clues unconvincing. Let's break that video's "clues" down.

"Exhibit 1" I have already discussed.

"Exhibit 2" could be anything. Asuka has no reason to believe Shinji loves her, so I think it's more likely directed at her mother or, as I will explain, nobody in particular. The fact that the lines came from the episode 16's ED serves to me as evidence AGAINST the main argument, as they're all very "Instrumentality-ish" lines, very strongly reminiscent of the scene in Episode 20 where Asuka sees the three main girls naked asking him to "become one with me". This would be some foreshadowing (not the earliest, either!) about what is to come with Instrumentality imo (the idea of "becoming one" is seen in ep. 9, way earlier, with the synch training as an example).

"Exhibit 3" is not that strange at all. Asuka often wears, well, skimpy clothing, and Eva is not above titillating its audience with fanservice, though it tries to be highbrow about it. If anything, that she now thinks Shinji has no attraction to her probably makes her more confident to wear so little. She even literally says that she's never been in an "indecent" relationship, and is disgusted by Misato's attitude to sex.

"Exhibit 4" assumes that the two possible interpretations are mutually exclusive. Asuka is indeed wondering if she'll end up just using guys for comfort, but she's disgusted by the idea of it, which suggests she hasn't ever seriously considered doing it. Honestly, she's kinda a prude.

>In the context of Eva, it is as close as two human beings can be together
Not always, see Gendo and Ritsuko or her mother for example. Anno didn't make sex the magic "human relationships easy mode", he talks about it in all its emotional complexity.
Hence the fact that even if Shinji and Asuka have sex, they're not necessarily able to get any closer emotionally.

As for the rest I haven't much to say, your interpretation of events is on point imo even if I don't entirely share it.
It's a good counterpoint that rests on conflicting interpretations.
We could go on all night in a battle of interpretations, but I think these two posts really illustrate well the main conflicting arguments for and against this theory, and personally that's what I like the most about it.

She's pregnant.

Urges aside, Asuka's provocations are nothing more than her attempts at flirting/getting attention. She wants the limelight in Shinji's mind (for, imo, romantic reasons of her own that she cannot understand), and she knows that she can get it by being sexual.

Gendo/Ritsoku/Ritsoku's mother actually cut against the theory. Eva makes no secrets about who is in a sexual relationship with whom. Why would Asuka/Shinji be any different?

One final point before I leave. Gendo and Ritsuko have sex and are still not close at all - even after performing the act which is meant to bring humans closer than any other. I think this just means that humans are pretty distant, regardless of sex or anything else. We're really awful at communicating and understanding each other, and out "A.T. Fields" are never broken down for a lot of people.

maybe directly implying these 13/14yo kids had sex in a TV show was a bit too much for 1995.
And the main clue: didn't exist until EoE

Definitely agree.

>Gendo and Ritsuko have sex and are still not close at all
In fairness, Gendo kills Ritsuko and there is some internal dilemma on Ritsuko's side for helping Gendo. They are probably the most distant sexual couple in Eva though.

He might be milquetoast faggot, sure, but you seem to be comparing the way you--a (presumably) grown man, who is, let's not forget, writing character evaluations on an anime imageboard --would act, to the way a fictional 14 year old Japanese boy would. If Shinji was a grown man doing the kind of shit he does, it would be unforgivable. But he isn't. He's a depressed and hormonal kid who doesn't understand himself, much less girls his age.

pretty much this Also the fact that leaving this interpretation open can influence quite heavily on how we interpret Shinji and Asuka's relationship, either as one that can work if they someday overcome their respective problems through this relationship, or if they are ultimately destined to fail and find their answers and give meaning to their lives on their own.
What's of course funny is that the fact they had sex can lend weight to either interpretations : either it reinforces their complete inabilty to be together, or it reinforces the need for them to try and discuss their issues before going further in their relationship. I don't have an answer personally, even if I'd prefer the second interpretation.
But Anno always repeated that these relationships and the ending (which has a lot to do with how someone views this particular relationship) are up for interpretation and that he didn't want to give any definitive answer on that beyond what he said about instrumentality etc. So even from a storytelling point of view it makes sense leaving this relationship more up to interpretations than the others.

FWIW, I don't think the theory is outlandish or anything, I just don't agree with it. Its about 1000% better supported than most theories though, and I agree with you that doesn't add/less to the overall story than the kiss by itself.

Thanks for the civil discussion, anons. Have a picture.

>I don't think the theory is outlandish or anything, I just don't agree with it
That's what theories are for, they're what makes NGE worth talking about until today, thanks for the discussion indeed, it's refreshing to have an Eva thread with the good kind of autism (attention to details rather than waifuwar rants).
Have this pic, some of the ambiguity Anno intentionally left in his clusterfuck.

i-i think i will rewatch this thing.

this last nge threads where good.. keep them coming

>but pregnancy isn't a physical condition.