Holy shit Madoka Magica looks a lot worse than I remember
Holy shit Madoka Magica looks a lot worse than I remember
And the script isn't any better
I just decided I wanted to rewatch it maybe an hour ago, I made it 8 minutes into the first episode.
How can it look worse than you remember when there were threads all around about the quality found in every fucking episode.
You remember when madoka was uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Meduka Meguca was a thing for a reason. It's still one of the greatest anime ever made.
Madoka Magica aired over 6 years ago.
You can't remember stuff that happened 6 years ago?
really nigga did you just say that
I have literally no qualms about saying Madoka Magica is one of the best anime ever made. It's very easy to defend.
Defend the bland characterization without using "that's how its supposed to be" because that's just admitting that it is in fact bland.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by bland in this context, but I would assume you have issues with the girls being fairly straightforward in characterization. But that's because, it's not a character driven show. The show is dedicated to exploring its themes, and the characters are there as tools for that. They certainly do have their own internal conflicts that the show is interested in exploring, though, so I personally wouldn't call them bland.
He's saying he's new.
If the show was solely about its themes it wouldn't spend a lot of time exploring interpersonal conflicts or romances for that matter. If the characters are tools for the themes they would be more nuanced or at least more interwoven with the themes themselves.
What really was Madoka about, thematically. What was learned? I honestly couldn't tell you and the characters definitely couldn't tell you.
Oh, I see. That makes a lot of sense, then, because the interpersonal relationships were all very vital to the theming. The show is simply asking if there exists such a thing as selfless love. Each of the girls represent a major subset of love. Mami is self-love, Sayaka is romantic love, Homura is Platonic love, Kyoko is familial love, and Madoka is Agape. The interpersonal conflict and relationship drama is, for the most part, a function of exploring the natural conflicts that love can cause, but more importantly they're presented as the natural implications of the girls' wishes, which are distinctly related to their love.
Obviously the easiest to point to is Sayaka, whose arc is absolutely pure. She makes a 'selfless' wish for her romantic love. In truth, though, there was a selfishness to it, and when that is not fulfilled she falls into despair as her illusions are broken.
Only Madoka's love is genuinely selfless, a true sacrifice with nothing to gain. And that's why she's the first Urobutcher protagonist to get a happy ending.
>Homura is friendship
>the first Urobutcher protagonist to get a happy ending
I assume you think Rebellion isn't canon?
Honestly, it seems like not a thematic mess but if I told you any of this is presented in an interesting way I'd be lying. There's something amiss with all the characters and I think it's because the characters were too plain for the shows own good.
Everyone's resolutions or non-resolutions reflect on some weird skewed and pathetic and hopeless view of love. Which, fits with the But by the end of rebellion you figure out that every kind of love conquers all with Homura's obsession being the most powerful thing of all.
So you're put through the drudgery of personal drama only to figure out that in fact love is pain and you spent eight uninteresting episodes finding that out.
Oh, no, I'm a fan of Rebellion. But it's a sequel, so I don't know that it undermines the intent of the original. It has its own things to say.
That is effectively what I mean when I say platonic love.
I think you're in the minority in finding its presentation uninteresting, but everyone has their own taste. Personally, I think the characters serve their function just about as well as they could. And I believe everyone's arcs are fully resolved by the end of the original series.
Mami's reward for wishing for herself is a lonely death. Sayaka falls to despair for her selfishness. Kyoko finds solace in a selfless sacrifice, but doesn't quite reach a happy ending, because her love is still too small. Homura becomes more and more distant with her friend with every go round, as she tries to force things that are supposed to come naturally.
I don't think I would take Rebellion into account when judging the quality of the original series. It is definitely a distiinct addition; basically Urobuchi deciding Homura's obsession deserved to be more thoroughly explored. I suspect, if there ever comes another film, it will be a very interesting conclusion.
Also, the show does not mean to say love is pain. Madoka isn't unhappy with her ending. The question is simply, "can love truly be selfless?" And it concludes that, yes, a Christ-like sacrfice, of no good to the individual but of great value to the rest of the world, is possible and fulfilling. It's a very hopeful ending.
>Only Madoka's love is genuinely selfless, a true sacrifice with nothing to gain. And that's why she's the first Urobutcher protagonist to get a happy ending
But Madoka does have an underlying motive, if not an ulterior one. Her self-sacrificial nature is rooted in her lack of self-worth, so that she feels that she can only affirm her self-worth by saving others, and that otherwise her life is meaningless and disposable. While her compassion is genuine, it's not pure; there is a dark side to it. And furthermore, it's hardly happy: she's not only dead to everyone that she ever loved, but they've completely forgotten her existence. To make matters worse, she's undertaken the burden of the suffering of all magical girls for all eternity. And while the concept of nirvana may be an ideal from a Buddhist perspective, it hardly is from a humanist one. However, despite the shortcomings, ultimately Madoka has effected a positive change overall, so there is nobility in her actions. Even if the world is only slightly less terrible, the hope created by that is worthwhile.
>Evafag thread shitting in another Madoka thread
I don't mind being in the minority in an industry that lets archetypes take the front and center stage.
They fixed it in the recap movies.
Madoka is not a humanist show, I won't deny that. I also don't really remember her believing her own life to be disposable, but I can imagine many people being uncomfortable seeing her find satisfaction in complete self-sacrifice. Ultimately, Madoka comes to a lot of very conclusions that are more tied to religions than most atheist philosophies.
On the one hand, the movies fixed so many little problems. On the other, I just like the pacing of the show better. It's a difficult trade-off
The characters are more than just nondescript vessels of ideology. The show does a good job of presenting how their personalities and experiences lead them to develop these ideologies. They may be archetypal on the surface, but they're developed through actions reflecting on their subconscious and display multiple facets.
Yes, the amount of scenes they removed from the movies is unforgivable. Fancutfags is a good compromise though.
>fix the shitty animation
>ruin the god-tier pacing
Had not heard of that. I'll have to check it out on my next watch
>6 years ago
It's been 7 now.
They kind of over-corrected some places
They fucked it up by putting a horizontal beam that's not there in the shadows
Madoka starts off in a mild state of existential ennui. She concludes that self-sacrifice is the only means to find purpose in life, with no regard for the inherent value of her existence, or her value to others.
And you raise a point that ties well into the brilliance of Rebellion as a sequel. It's a Nietzschean antithesis to the themes of the original.
I think I'd rather keep the shitty animation.
You mean the shadow of the guardrails?
Shit the shadows don't make sense
I don't see any Nietsche in Rebellion
Familiars literally chant "Gott ist tot" and Homura is the ubermensch.
I guess, but it seems kind of surface level. Like, there's a literal god that Homura tears down, which is not at all what Nietsche meant when he said it.
Neither of you have read Nietzche
Are you saying that because you do see his influence on Rebellion? Because I still don't.
I need to rewatch the movies one of these days.
It goes far deeper than that. Nietzsche associates spirituality with a sort of escapism from the physical world, and a rejection of life itself, since it shifts value towards a presumed divine salvation. Nirvana is similar in many respects: it is the liberation from worldly desire and the cycle of reincarnation. The ideology of the ubermensch is contrary to this: to affirm oneself wholeheartedly in a mortal existence, or, in Buddhist terms, samsara, the eternal cycle of suffering. Beyond what Homura physically does, on an ideological level, Homura rejects divine morality as a part of the exertion of her own will unbound.
Watch the fancut. It's got movie video in tv broadcast episode format.
He was a cynical cuck who would rather fellate a fantasy chad thundercock rather then attempt to live up to his ridiculous edgy childish ideals.
Also, every single fucking human civilization in existence has a form of organized and accepted outlet for spirituality.
Spirituality is a part of human nature and human existence.
Denying that is like denying that the sun exists on a clear sunny day.
Ep1 looks like trash
There is spanish dub of and they call themselves "puella magis" when in japanese and english never use that words.
>If the show was solely about its themes it wouldn't spend a lot of time exploring interpersonal conflicts or romances for that matter. If the characters are tools for the themes they would be more nuanced or at least more interwoven with the themes themselves.
Dunno, how you put deep stories in 12 episodes ? barely the anime explain the main theme.
I still don't understand this argument.
The characters are developed through their actions and interactions with others. The characters will not always tell you what they think or what they're like, most of the time they show you. You need to actually look yourself and connect the dots.
You seem to be exactly as intelligent as your grammar implies.
Oh screw you all, I rewatched it recently and still loved it.
really, user, you should know by now that Sup Forums can't have a madoka magica thread without anons lining up to shit all over it. This thread was made specifically for people who like and want to shit on it. You're wasting your time here, and I'm wasting my own time explaining this to you