Why aren’t there more hard fantasy Anime instead of fucking Isekai garbage

Why aren’t there more hard fantasy Anime instead of fucking Isekai garbage.

Because Sup Forums won't be able to self insert.

because new author find it hard to build their own world rather copy game mechanics

Sup Forums a shit.

better support magus bride, then

This is amazing and it's a shame we don't get more magical worlds like it.

LWA also counts.

>game mechanics
>world building
What?

And the vast majority of western fantasy literature just poorly rips off Tolkien because the brainlet fake nerds writing them have no background in any sort of theology or philosophy and their real life experiences consist of consuming media created by others with increasingly diminishing real life experiences. Western fantasy is largely shit and people who think it's good suffer from survivor's bias because of a handful of half-decent examples across like 4 decades.

Is this one of those nice dark elves or the kind that will go all Hellraiser on me?

LWA was garbage though.

>hard fantasy
Meaning what? Lacking anything fantastical? Like historical fiction but in a made up world?

Why is this hot but real niggers are disgusting?

Because that image have 1 less dimention

There's this thing called google these days, which you can use to check the meaning of terms you don't know

I'm pretty sure Orcs are closer to being a fantastical equivalent to blacks than dark elves. Dark elves are like south east asians.

>starts bitching about some sub genre
>acts like they're smarter than everyone else when someone asks them what their unheard of term means
>Wonders why there's no anime of that genre

Because its a shit term and you should feel shit for having bad taste.Don't be surprised that no one takes you seriously.

You should read Hundred Thousand Kingdoms or Alif the unseen. Not everyone copies Tolkien and D&D

Then your answer is: because it is a tiny niche that very few people are interested in. And anime is already a niche product. Why would you expect them to make any?

The features aren't malformed/apelike.

post moar elves dark kind pls

>the brainlet fake nerds writing them have no background in any sort of theology or philosophy and their real life experiences consist of consuming media created by others with increasingly diminishing real life experiences
>largely shit and people who think it's good suffer from survivor's bias because of a handful of half-decent examples across like 4 decades.
All of this is doubly true for Japanese fantasy. It's true that authors like Eddison, Tolkien, and Wolfe are one-in-a-thousand in the west, but Japan seems to lack this caliber of fantasy storyteller entirely.

Industrialisation is deadly to High Fantasy.

Who gives a shit about yet another shitty sword and sorcery thingy with hastily constructed world?

Eleves NEED to be impregnated
With a LANCE

>wandered off to the site of local sci-fi/fantasy publisher
>one of their main requirements is for your work to be a fucking isekai
>they are saying that "pure" sci-fi and fantasy has no mass appeal at this point because the auditory needs to relate and self-insert into the protagonist as much as it can
This trash is everywhere, not just anime industry. And it's killing fantasy.

because people have changed

They want instant gratification nowadays,and this desire is reflected in isekai

an isekai is given all kinds of unfair advantages at the start of the story.

It's no longer a hero's journey

>yfw you are fed up with High fantasy basically because of that reason

>self inserting
>not creating an OC self insert character and playing out how they would interact with the MCs at any given point in the story during your free time

damn Sup Forums and you guys call me the normie?

>needs to relate and self-insert into the protagonist
where did this come from
why is everything like this now
what happened to just enjoying a good story and good characters

>an isekai is given all kinds of unfair advantages at the start of the story.

As someone who has read tons of western high fantasy, I completely agree

Excellent thread

>Actually have to write your own Silmarillion or something along those lines for worldbuilding only to tear it out of your story and just refer to past significant events (and ruins) here and there.
Or just don't. And forego deep worldbuilding at your own peril.

Not sure if this is a good thread to ask, but I want everyone's opinion. Is it ok to make weird/new shit in fantasy writing? I keep getting advice to not stray too far from genre staples so I've tried to strike a balance between old and new. Would it be better to just go balls deep into new territory?

I'd say it exists in Sup Forums. That's where most of the Japanese fantasy world building effort is focused. Or maybe that's where the talent is. The entire of Dark Souls is pretty much basically a Silmarrilion. It's literally just disconnected and oddly conjunctive lore. It's very clear that it was at least 75% written and then some just tore out a few pages. Or like, most of the pages. But it engages people for a reason.

I might be biased because the only Japanese media I consume is anime and video games, but a trend I noticed with Japanese writers is that they can be very good at setting something up and hinting at a larger picture, or otherwise getting the audience to start theorizing but when the time comes to explain things it almost always falls flat. I think the reason why Dark Souls manages to do so well is because it has all the hints and set-up of something great, but without the thorough explanation which would cripple the writing's strength. Of course, there are plenty of other flaws to poke at but that's another subject entirely.

>is it okay to be creative when writing fantasy
The very fact that this is even a question is kind of horrifying.

95% of book editors are women, and as such they don't have the mental ability to understand risk-taking and new ideas. Fantasy readers are mostly men, and as such appreciate new and weird worldbuilding.

This disconnect between the female mindset of book editors and the male mindset of readers is killing the industry.

A polar example is Persona where the explanation is actually simple and good. Philemon and Nyarlhotep are having a game over what wins, humanity's insanity or humanity's desire for a future, and it's always going to happen though intermediaries of the Nth degree. Even Igor and the rest of the gods are created beings, representatives, and the shadows and the personas are just aspectual constructs.

Because generic fantasy worlds don't make much sense unless from the perspective of an outsider going through them.

this "I need to self-insert" bullshit never mattered in anime before. The reason I got into anime is because these were specifically cool characters that you found cool and looked up to.

Just go wild, it's more entertaining to read something the author has put actual thought into.

Shit, did I actually write myself into the wrong genre/industry? I just want to tell stories. Should I try to take my stuff into a different medium or hunker down and just keep writing? I don't think I'd ever change anything in the industry with my skill, but I wouldn't mind being a positive influence either.

The best shit is weird shit. What you should care about is making the characters consistent, more than two dimensional, and at least somewhat relatable. I think. But you can widen your horizons there, too.

Publish yourself. Make a pPatreon, make a blog, make a comic, make a whatever, just make it good.

>the gods are created beings, representatives, and the shadows and the personas are just aspectual constructs.
I like it.

Japan has lacked everything in literature, and what they have now consists of copying already existing western genres. Search for their historical literature.

I know very little about publishing, but I'm pretty sure most books fail. As in sell maybe a few hundred copies and are forgotten. Trying to pander to your audience as a noob is a mug's game, because you don't have an audience.

Write what you like and hope you get lucky enough that someone that also likes it manages to find it. Or find a publisher that likes your writing enough to market the shit out of it.

I always self insert as Elric

What would Elric do in this situation?

Should I write my own litnovel?
"Reborn in a fantasy world, as Turbo-teen"

look at what Michael Scott Earle's been doing recently, the guy can write good high fantasy ie the Destroyer

But he just published a monster girl harem building, dinosaur tamer book, and managed to hit every trope of the genre, cause that's what people want I guess

But can he go fast? Can a reader even self-insert into an anthropomorphic car?!

I was kinda joking, how do cars fit into a gaming system anyway. Stat calculations are gonna kill me

>A month has passed since Victor Shelby was abducted by aliens and put on a savage dinosaur world. In that time, he has learned how to survive, tamed dinosaurs, and won the love of three beautiful alien women.
Holy shit, I thought you were joking. This sounds amazing.

MC doesn't even get laid in the first book

Or maybe because he read a monster girl harem story and liked it enough to want to write something similar.

But I think it's different if you have an established name because publishers and audiences will give your shit a chance. Taking a low risk strategy by writing something people are known to like makes sense. As an unknown author there is no low risk strategy because however amazing your writing or creativity you are still likely to be ignored because no one knows you.

Hmm... Well I've always wanted to git gud at art. Maybe I should work on that between manuscripts and look into adapting some of my stuff into a comic. I have noticed that audiences are more receptive to new works when there's some neat visual aid like concept art too.

Listen up.

Your book is probably shit. That is statistically true. 95% of all books fail, because 95% of all books are shit. Even moreso when it is your first book.

You'll fail. You'll learn to do better, you'll grow up, and after your second or third tentative you'll, maybe, hopefully, have something readable. That's life. Life in the market.

If it is good people will flock to you. If it isn't, and it probably won't be good, people won't.

Most editors in the industry are women, and while they can't understand the appeal of fantasy for shit, they will give you useful feedback about the writing style and shit. Listen to them. Throw their uneducated estrogen infused delusions in the garbage bin where they belong, but those girls have experience, and you lack it, so listen to them when they have a point. And they will have one.

Practice makes perfect. Practice and practice and practice until you got something good. Good luck.

>how do cars fit into a gaming system anyway
Like this.

>most of the author's work are described to have detailed sex scenes
>the mc of an alien amazonian harem book doesn't get laid in the first installment
Nani the fuck?

Amazons really good about publishing no names

just go on Royal road and write a damn book, practice get followers get demand, get a decent editor and then talk to amazon

you wont make much with Kindle releases
but its a start

too busy fighting raptors

Makes sense to me. Though I notice that a lot of rejection letters seem very copy-paste. Best to keep trying, though. It's all I can do.

does the MC ever get laid in harem adventures

Would Elric of Melnibone get laid? yes he would

It's actually not.. too bad I guess. I like the fact that there are almost no survivors, even though the aliens teleport dozens of people down every week. The Dinos have learned that the giant beams of light mean easy meat

Don't look for plot advancement or any reason why the aliens do such things , he's never figuring it out

maybe it's just what Aliens watch on TV

Actual writer here.

Your story and structure should have familiar elements in order to be welcoming. Feel free to go nuts with your worldbuilding though. The more imaginative, the better.

As an example, look at Star Wars. For its time, it was fairly novel. Also, you should break down HOW it introduces worldbuilding into the story without massive infodumping on the audience. Too many rookie writers get so caught up in their world that the story suffers from it.

Character >>> World

Read Apple Black for an example of Worldbuilding done wrong.

Get with the times grandpa, narrative fiction is old news, simulations are all the rage now. You are the main character! Learn all the lore! Embrace the completely pointless virtual worlds that have nothing to say.

The genre can be done right, or it can be a bland unappealing mess

you want bad fiction genres. try the Chinese cultivation novels

>MC is a weakling in a world that only honors the strong and the weak die without mercy

>MC becomes strong to make the world a better place, MC becomes just as evil and uncaring, never returns to check on his family

Isn't that just self-publishing? Amazon certainly makes it affordable. But there's (justified) snobbery about that sort of thing.

In any case I'm sure you have to do your own publicity, or live with double digit sales.

>Responding to criticism about how Japanese fantasy is shit by explaining how eastern fantasy is shit.
You do realize that's totally irrelevant to the topic on hand? If someone shits on something you like, shitting on something tangentially related to it does not balance the scales.

these self publishers are eventually getting audiobook releases

Thanks for all the advice! I was really worried about bringing this kind of stuff up but everyone has been super helpful.

Also, just read through the first chapter of that Apple Black series. Jesus.

I mean the dozen out of several thousand that are decent

have a plot, have a hook, have an fairly bland MC that has some secret mystery

It's the same thing that's been done in fantasy for hundreds of years

Japanese people are very good at setting up emotional queues and implications, maybe because their society has by and large been more traditional and reading between the lines would have been historically important to them.

However, they absolutely SUCK ASS at pretty much any and all philosophy or logic. It's extremely rare that they have any kind of grasp on that shit at all. I'd probably blame how disconnected they've been from western literature as culture for hundreds of years. Sure they have access to it now, but none of that thought managed to seep in and direct them.

An easy way to explain is that they can write a better story into their OPs than their actual fucking plot 9 times out of 10.

I've always considered it pretty fucked up that when people, OP included, hear fantasy they immediately think of elves and dwarves. Fantasy can potentially encompass anything.

MC can't simply kill the Villain, because reasons

Son, the simulation meme has infested all writing regardless of genre or medium. Nobody is telling a story, they think having the basic elements of a story is enough and the complete thing will emerge on its own, like bacteria or something. No, they're supposed to fucking WRITE IT.

So which series is responsible for all the wish-fulfillment isekai garbages pumping out?

>that greentext
[citation needed]

I consider most sci fi as fantasy

It's really only sci-fi if the book is centered on the science

True. Star Wars is fantasy that just happens to be set in space complete with knights, magic, princesses, and dark lords.

Kek, Im unironically intrigued by the thought of writing my own novel without any previous writing experience coupled with english being my second language. It would mostly consist of ripped off ideas too

What a glorious heap of garbage would that be, not like fanfiction.net doesnt have em piled high enough

>
Dude you'll fit right in

>Also, just read through the first chapter of that Apple Black series. Jesus
Exactly.

It's really painful to read. But a prime example of someone getting too absorbed in their worldbuilding to tell a decent story.

Again, character begets everything else. Write good characters, and have tgem drive the plot, and people will become more engaged with your story. That's not to say Plot Driven stories are bad (Star Wars is Plot Driven for example). But they still require strong and engaging characters to be interesting. People don't relate to worlds, they relate to people. So you should focus on writing people that your readers can connect to. A good example of this is literally Shakespeare. If you can take your story, change the setting, and still have it work, you're doing something right.

I blame Mark Twain

Sword Art Online

brb rewriting Macbeth as an isekai

Not only that, pure sci-fi has been struggling for a while now just to exist.

...

DON'T YOU DO IT, user!

Well, from the feedback I've heard so far my characters are usually the reader's favorite part so... On the right track I guess?

>If you can take your story, change the setting, and still have it work, you're doing something right.
I think I'm going to keep this in mind most of all. Looking to the Apple Black series as an example, there's basically no character to the character. Take away the setting, take away the MC's relevance. This is something I'll have to keep in mind.

The genre as a whole can be ok so long as you either avoid game mechanics entirely

or use the game mechanics as the means for plot advancement ie the MC is fucked unless he can find a way to cheat the system, defy the gods etc etc

Good thing i'm not the only one, this is peak performance.

Dont tempt me user

I just finished Olan Thorensons new book

Super Super Comfy

MC is kidnapped by aliens and taken to a distant human world with an 18 century tech base

MC is a chemical engineer

MC quietly becomes the richest man on the planet

Because.

Sci-fi, fantasy, etc... all define settings. And writers get too caught up in making the setting interesting, be it with super imaginative worlds, or with highly accurate science fiction, but forget the human element which is what connects your readers to the story in the first place.

Sci-fi has been, and can be done right, see:
Blade Runner (a mystery)
Ghost in the Shell (a philosophical story)
The Martian (a survival story)
2001 A Space Odyssey
Gundam (political/warfare)
Metal Gear series (political/warfare)
Interstellar (hard sci-fi/exploration)
Dune (sci-fi fantasy/political)
anything Asimov
etc...

and all those works are derivative of previous works

Truly there are no new stories, only new ways to write old ones

>technology is easy even if techbase is low xd
>production is easy
>just become rich by fixing the world
An affront to engineers and people who study the field. God I fucking hate isekai

there's important plot and stuff, but literally months where nothing happens cause sea travel isn't fast, and the MC just.. Abides

DnD session anime when? Imouto Sae ga Ireba Ii had a good episode on it

reminder that alice in wonderland, peter pan, wizard of oz, and chronicles of narnia are all isekai

oh no, mc knows that there is no tech base
the author gets it

MC invents fucking tampons and makes a fortune

his work to improve science is slooow