002 FAGS ON SUICIDE WATCH!!1!

>Nephila clavata, also known as the jorō spider
>Jorōgumo is a legendary creature in Japanese folklore. A Jorōgumo is a spider that can change its appearance into that of a beautiful women. She seeks men to seduce, whom she then binds in her silk and then devours
>the yellow threads of Nephila clavata’s webs appear rich gold in sunlight
(honey)

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youtube.com/watch?v=hIDxw81yMI0
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Here is a real image of Nephila clavata.
>pic related
Notice how the markings on the abdomen are the exact same. It is impossible for this to be a coincidence.

>not wanting to be seduced, bounded, and devoured by 02

So wait. Is Oni evil or isn’t she?

She certainly looks menacing in this image. Still, Ichigofags need to realize it’s over. Their ship has long sunk.

>Ichigofag
Seriously, this is the same Battle against this couple, that has fought week and week. You will get BTFO like the NTRfags. I honestly miss the peggingfags, even they read the story better than you.

man, japan is scaaaary

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

You’re fucking delusional. OP is right, what possible reason would the animators bring special attention to that spider which has significant symbolic meaning in Japan? It’s like how black widow spiders are famous in America for eating their male partner after mating, hence the name.

It didn't even sail.

We will see next Saturday. Seeing you get BTFO again will be delicious.

is that a jorō reference?

I'm now on suicide watch

Actually it represents 02 devouring Cocona’s chances of winning the Hirobowl.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE GONNA DO ONIBROS IT WASNT SUPPOSED TO END LIKE THIS??!? IF WE ABANDON SHIP NOW THERE MIGHT STILL BE ROOM ON INCHIGO’S VESSEL!

It's not that much of surprise that Zero two is manipulating Hiro feeling of wanting to be useful and fascination with her knowing that the only chance he got left of feeling valuable is by riding with her even if he may die from it. Hiro is really her only shot she got left of finding someone that can mate for her. Although, that would mean they have to give up their own humanity to be able to keep up with her.Which is why I believe she infected Hiro with her kiss because she knows his weakness and like that sort vulnerability along with the fact he doesn't seem disgusted with her possibly being non-human.

So, it's pretty much a gamble on her part based on Hiro determination will he cross over his own limit of his humanity by riding with her the third time to be able to become a being to be on par with or will he chicken out leaving her forever being alone with no one really to depend since no one can keep up with her.

Nephila's are gorgeous.

youtube.com/watch?v=hIDxw81yMI0

You have to consider that the scene is from Hiro's perspective as he realizes he caught cancer

>Zero Two isn't a bad person just a bad kid.

Brainlets are so wrapped up with the mystique that 02 is a bakemono, that they forgot that a mystique is all it is and 02 fell for Hiro in the first place because he saw through that shit.

We already went over this. The Jorougumo is Ichigo and the web is the bird cage. She holds Hiro down and won't allow him to fly, while 002 offers him freedom and the ability to travel with Strelizia.

>02 only looks human due to her horn limiter, she's really a demi-dinosaur with red skin
>She kills anyone who rides her
We already know all that since episode 1. Don't you have better arguments instead?

>A Jorōgumo is a spider that can change its appearance into that of a beautiful women
You mean cute loli?

Get a grip. There is zero chance they would do something so risky as throw out a signifigant character like Zero Two, especially so early in the show.

>pic related
is what is actually going on.

The butterfly is trapped and cannot fly. The spider's web is the bird cage, which Hiro needs to escape. The Jorougumo is Ichigo, who is the queen of the nest (the leader of the children).

>Jorōgumo
Did you mean Jiraigumo?

I got cancer too, but it was from all the autistic 02 waifufaggotry in the last two weeks.

>falling for it
the new 4koma made the red herring even more obvious

Is this a supaidaman-sama´s thread?
youtube.com/watch?v=6a4E5Cr7Cbk

You are correct as the episode was showcasing Zero Two's darker unsettling side. But you're still going to be wrong in the end. Because it's there to build tension not to settle who Zero Two or what will happen.

Fuck off.

Gold metal for mental gymnastics. In your version, how is Ichigo going to “devour” or kill him?

Here is the latest 4koma. Notice anything?

So you think she was faking this then? This show is a magnet for people knee jerking to hasty conclusions. try seeing all of the evidence.

Females belonging to the dino race devour their mate(s) after having planted their offspring in them tabun

>inability to fly is Ichigo
>death is 002
>death is the only way out

Am I reading this right?

you should refrain from engaging in shitposting wars if it wears you down. generally when threads go past bump limit and the masses migrate to the next one is the best time to attempt to have some less obnoxious conversation

That scene has nothing to do with the blue tumour on his chest. That's a misdirection that every brainlet has fallen for. Hiro sees the butterfly caught in the spider's net, and that's when he touches his chest. The confusion stems from the fact that you can interpret that chest grab in two ways: either as Hiro realising that he has to try his all and pilot, unless he wants to end up like that butterfly, caught in the bird nest (the spider's web) unable to fly, or secondly, as Hiro thinking that the blue tumour is the result of him being caught in 002's web. The second interpretation is highly tenuous, because it is 002 that gave him back the ability to fly which he cherishes so much (and which the caught butterfly has now lost). This second interpretation also meshes very poorly with the Jian bird motif, and Hiro and 002 being a pair of such birds. It also meshes poorly with the fact that 002 is actually offering him a chance off, and warns him openly about the risk he faces. The butterfly doesn't willingly enter the spider's net, and the spider doesn't warn the butterfly to stay away lest he may die.

In short, it makes no sense for the spider to symbolise 002. It is inconsistent with everything else we have been shown so far.

There are ichigofags on Sup Forums?

Why would Hiro be a butterfly? Butterflies are usually feminine.

Strelizia is the only way out.

See
The 4-koma picks that as a subject to parody makes the red-herring even more blatant.

Only ironically.

Ironic ones. They pretend to root for a sunken ship in order to shitpost.

gimme a kiss daalin

WOW an intelligent post on Sup Forums, take a gander gentlemen, for this isn’t something you see everyday.

>how is Ichigo going to “devour” or kill him?
By stunting his development. She dotes on him and treats him as the boy she knew when they were little children, not pushing him to grow into his own like 002 does.

Stop posting Ichigo. You're the spider.

...

Well, discussing this show is shitposting at this point so I don't blame them.

Ahh now I see.

WEW

you failed to address the information in op's post, though. spider symbolism generally always points to the same thing and it has nothing to do with "grabbing his chest because he realizes he has to try" (wtf)

whew. Likely to believe it since they have symbolism everywhere. They wouldn't just stop at some point. lol no symbolism in this one particular spot.

On the contrary. Pay more attention.

Zero Two as second cour antagonist WHEN

Imo. Way overthinking it. The spider is there to build tension and apprehension about the nature of Zero Two and what's going on. Nothing more. It is most certainly not Ichigo who was made to look suffering and pitiful, not as a sinister force.

Further evidence that Ichigo is the Jorougumo is the fact that her mecha, Delphinium, is named after a toxic plant. Guess how spiders kill and devour their prey?

>Delphinium is a genus of about 300 species of perennial flowering plants in the family Ranunculaceae. All members of the Delphinium genus are toxic to humans and livestock. The common name "larkspur" is shared between perennial Delphinium species and annual species of the genus Consolida
>In general, larkspurs denote love, affection, and ardent attachment.
>While pink larkspurs represent fickleness, white ones denote happiness, and purple flowers mean first love.
>These flowers symbolize levity, lightness, pure heart, sweet disposition, desire for laughter, etc.
>According to some other versions, larkspur flowers may mean frivolity, haughtiness, and inconsistent loyalty.
>Almost all parts of the plant have poisonous alkaloids.

>frivolity, haughtiness, and inconsistent loyalty
>all parts of the plant have poisonous alkaloids

I'm seeing the shitposts reaching a critical mass and it's a long way to the next episode. So hey, let's lay out some actual discussion RE: Zero2.

First off: >Hurr Spider in the Web

That's retarded. The entire point of the monologues is to show that Hiro is NOT caught in a web. Everything he's said from the very first episode, before he even met her, is about how much he wants to pilot the FranXX, no matter the cost. He ends multiple episodes specifically talking about how he's fine with being hurt/killed so long as he can fly again. He's making his choices completely of his own volition.

Even if you want to believe she's manipulating him or that Zero 2 has her own agenda, that's fine. However, you have to think for one single second what that agenda is... There's literally zero gain to her making him die. She doesn't get a single thing out of that.

She wants him alive and she wants to be with him.

Now in regards to everything else, obviously it always feels like a cop-out to take a scene with a character and say "Oh they're just lying about that" but I do think people are reading her conversations with Ichigo far too much at face value. Let's go over some details:

how can you misread the tone so blatantly though. the whole episode deals in setting up 02 as a dangerous character with possibly ambiguous motivations, in parallel to the cancer thing. the spider scene is feverish and disorienting, with the extreme closeups on hiro's face as he is clearly struggling physically and in pain. it's not at all directed like some sort of "gaining resolve" thing or him realizing he's entrapped or some shit. in fact, his eagerness to pilot and "be a team" with everyone else is completely at odds with the idea that he sees the whole facility thing as limiting. he WANTS to be part of the system as it is the only thing that gives meaning to his existence (so far).

>She's clearly very attached to him.

This is fairly evident, to the point where people were wondering if perhaps she was even manipulating him in the earlier episodes. Labelling him her "Darling" isn't some honour she gives out freely, it's probably/possibly something she's never done before, she says no-one's ever said such embarrassing things to as Hiro said in Ep4, so at the very least she's never had a partner as open/accepting/desirous of her before.

I think it's very important that in Ep1 Hiro was away when everyone else was talking about a Partner Killer with Horns and Klaxosaur Blood. He met her without prejudice and found her horns "alluring". Everyone else we've seen see her since has reacted with either wariness or downright fear, look at the way Miku was talking about how she wasn't human, or the way the P26 kids wanted nothing to do with her.

So then compare how she treats Hiro compared not just to anyone else, but to her previous partner. She was always running away from him, she seemed to want little to nothing to do with him, she was annoyed when he came to collect her. Meanwhile, she's always running TO Hiro, she's always wanting to be with him and always complaining about not being with him when they're apart.

She does it so freely with so many people that and in so many mundane situations I find it hard to believe it's anything but completely earnest. She likes Hiro, she's very attached to him, she wants to be around him.

>how can you misread the tone so blatantly though. the whole episode deals in setting up 02 as a dangerous character with possibly ambiguous motivations
This.

>She hates the thought of separating from him

Even more than just causing a fuss for Ichigo/Nana, or complaining about not being with him, look at the way 02 reacted when the military came to collect her and take her away from Hiro in Ep4- her eyes were shimmering, she was right on the verge of tears. She wanted to be with him, but he hadn't fought for her, he was letting her go... I actually think this is the most honest/vulnerable we've seen her in the whole show so far, she was on almost crying, she butted her horns against him one last time and said goodbye.

That's not the reaction of someone who'd easily just use him up and throw him away. That's the answer to Ichigo's question in Ep4. No, she's not heartless, she doesn't want Hiro to die, she doesn't want to be apart from him. He's either the first person to accept her in a long time, or perhaps the first person ever, she wants to be with him.

Even for the people who assume she's just manipulating him and using him as a way to escape APE, this is still true- Hiro dying doesn't help her one bit, she wants him to live. Of course I don't think that is the case, but still.

>inconsistent loyalty

Surely this is in relation to Ichigo’s shaky relationship with Goro.

>It is most certainly not Ichigo who was made to look suffering and pitiful, not as a sinister force.
Yes, the Jorougumo appears innocent. But that is only on the surface. Keep in mind that Ichigo says one thing to his face (that she has accepted Hiro riding Strelizia) and does another behind his back (trying to influence 002). She is using her position as leader, and her outward concern for Hiro as a cover for her true feeling of jealousy towards 002 and infatuation with Hiro.
Ichigo is indadvertedly holding Hiro back. Right now it's small things, but as the story will progress, she will throw more and more impediments his way in order to stop him from riding Strelizia (and pairing up with 002).

>people actually think 02 has been entirely truthful with Hiro

This show has 19 episodes to go. Of course there will be drama.

>She understands him, and she knows he needs to overcome this

Perhaps even better than Ichigo does. Right in Episode 1 she says as much, that he's just like her, that they're the same. They're both searching for a place to belong.

Remember that scene? She was half dead, limping, covered in blood and still dragging herself back into the FranXX, because killing Klaxxosaurs was her way of living, it was the only purpose she had, and she would sooner die than lose her place in the world. Hiro is exactly the same, he's repeated that over and over, if the only way to pilot a FranXX is to throw away his life, he'll do so gladly, because it's better than sitting around doing nothing.

And with that understanding is the fact that 02 is a veteran, someone who's been through countless partners and who's seen countless allies killed in battle. (I actually think she was being honest when she said she didn't remember causing the death of anyone in Plantation 26, there's a discussion from her VA where they say she probably hasn't bothered to learn any of the P13 kids names except Hiro.) The kids are all Parasites. They'll never become adults(citizens). They ARE expendable. She practically says as much to Ichigo, "What do you think a human is?"

Yes? Why wouldn't I?

>However, you have to think for one single second what that agenda is... There's literally zero gain to her making him die
This is an issue of the show being somewhat messily written. The fact of the matter is that we are 5 episodes in and STILL have not the slightest clue how the setting works, what the objectives of the organizations are, what the motivations of the main players are, or how the narrative will develop. Every single episode has been concerned with putting the main characters in emotionally intense situations for its own sake.

So it's impossible to even begin to speculate about why 02 would manipulate him, or whether she has an agenda, because there is not even a hint of an endgoal in sight -and not just for 02, but for the weirdo adult dudes too. The show has just been strolling along with no purpose so far, and the only reason we don't care about it is because we're familiar enough with the genre that we know the plot will be coming sooner or later.

I'm not misreading anything. I'm simply not looking at the episode in isolation, but as a part of a whole. Since the interpretation that the spider scene alludes to 002 being dangerous is at odds with virtually everything else we know, the principle of parsimony dictates that we consider it a red-herring.

>i-it's a red herring
nice

So, she's a realist. And that's why (besides just being territorial) she doesn't react to Ichigo's requests.

Hold back? There's no point. If Hiro is going into battle with her, there's going to be times she's going to have to go all out. Holding back, or trying to ease up on him is just putting the issue off. All it does is leave her trying to baby him, and him dead sooner or later anyway.

Leave Hiro alone? She can't and won't do that. Because she understands him. Just like she was willing to get into the FranXX alone even if it meant dying, he's willing to get into the FranXX with her, even if it means dying. She understands him because she's the same as him. She won't go against his wishes, because doing so would only leave him with no place to belong.

>She knows the only way forward is through

Hiro is standing at the cusp of where every one of her partner's failed. But he's not like them, he's her Darling. She's already recognised him. She believes in him, and she wants him to overcome this.

He needs to become strong enough to accept her, to have his body adapt to her.

Maybe it'll kill him, like everyone else. He's not worried about that, he's willing to pilot the FranXX even if it means dying. He'll die exactly as he wants to, that's not so bad. But she's hoping it won't, that he'll prove himself stronger than any of them and that he'll survive.

TL;DR: 02 would be (very) upset if Hiro died, she was very affected just by being separated from him. However she's not willing to hold back out of fear of risking his life, because neither of them want that. Ichigo finds that heartless (understandable), but ultimately all Ichigo can suggest is they coddle him. 02 wants him to be better than that, she wants him to truly accept her and be her Darling permanently.

THIS is how you Sup Forumsutism, OP . Now go away.

>No one considering the third position of Kokoro
Truly plebs in this thread

>is at odds with virtually everything else we know
It is not only not at odds, but in fact reinforced by everything else. It just means your misinterpretations apply to everything in the show, not just 1 scene

I enjoy this ride so much.

Yes. But it might also mean that she is duplicitous in general. She is certainly dishonest. So far mostly with herself, but also with others. For example she hides behind her position as leader whenever she is questioned about her preferential treatment of Hiro. So it might also signify that her loyalty wavers between doing her duty as a leader, and furthering her own personal goals vis-a-vis Hiro.

The poster already should have set you off. I went into the series thinking she would be a villain because of this.
Bonus: The text on the left says "Let me taste you."

Nice circular argument.

This entire thread is full of retards

The spider is supposed to make the audience question 02's motives, because riding with her is making Hiro sick. They're building up to their third FranXX mission, which will be monumentous as nobody has survived after riding with her three times. They want us to be on edge, and showing the tumor alongside a spider catching a flying creature is exactly how they are doing it. However, it won't amount to anything as it's just for the suspense, Hiro will pilot, something will happen to him, but he will come out of it alive. He will either have some sort of transformation (the oni fags will love that) or he will come out in critical condition with the infection spread to even more of his body. 02 won't care because she likes it, Ichigo and Goro will be upset, etc. etc.

Anyone that thinks the spider represent Ichigo is a retard, anyone who thinks the sider means 02 is evil is also retarded.

Asukafags need to hang.

>This is an issue of the show being somewhat messily written.
Or maybe you're a brainlet.

I am a Reifag though.

> riding with her is making Hiro sick.
Nonsense. The blue tumour is benign.

...

I said it's FURTHER proof, not that the spider is legit because of the poster and the poster is legit because of the spider.

note that i'm not that guy and i'm not saying she will be a villain. in fact my first post in the thread was precisely against interpreting the spider scene straightforwardly because it was from hiro's perspective. the show wants to keep 02's nature ambiguous and this episode has been the best at doing that so far, but this doesn't mean that she has some machiavellian malicious plan that uses hiro as the key. she might just be fucked up and do things that aren't good for anyone, not even herself. or she might be hesitantly going along with some plan some other figure of authority was concocting. or something else entirely.

the point is, the ambivalence about 02's character is completely intentional and a scene such as the one with the spider puts that in the subconscious mind of hiro (which does not preclude him not giving a fuck, as he shows by the end of the episode)

calm down nerds, it's just anime

No, the fact that the show has no telos as of episode 5 is pretty clear and not a matter of opinion.

>the show wants to keep 02's nature ambiguous
With this I agree. It was clear from episode 1.
And it is consistent with the spider scene having a double meaning/being a red-herring.

Kill your self.

Funny then how I was able to predict what will happen by keeping in mind that the show's main theme is fidelity then, huh? It's almost like that is its telos.

the fact that it isn't some sort of rosetta stone for figuring out the plot doesn't mean it's a red-herring. really the main reason the spider scene is there it's because it looks cool and edgy, and trying to convey the same thing with a more normal or dialogue-oriented scene would be boring. the idea that somehow it was about ichigo is completely retarded, once again because from hiro's perspective he has no reason to see ichigo as anything other than a nonthreatening friend who is a bit of a worrywart

imagine being on the level of mental gymnastics that lets you think Ichigo had anything to do with the spider

> the main reason the spider scene is there it's because it looks cool and edgy
Nonsense. It's a clear allusion to the Jorougumo. And that's what makes it a red-herring. It is very easy to fall into the trap of viewing 02 as a seductress that will cause Hiro's death when watching that scene.

Just because she has him in her web doesn't mean she ultimately wants to harm him, It's just a metaphor. I don't understand how you guys watch this show and not understand how she has him in her web. He's eating out of her hand. She refers to him in possessive terms. Always has him on the back foot in their interactions. He tells her he is ready to die to ride with her and she laughs and dances wildly at that.

And yes. It is not simply that he wants to ride the FRANXX. He wants to ride with her. He says so explicitly in the previous episode. She has him charmed, that's her web. As for motivation, she wants a partner but for that he needs to endure suffering which plainly evidently he does.

It seems you don't understand what I was referring to in my other post. I'm not talking about the overarching theme but about the face-value narrative that will undoubtedly drive the events of the show in the future. For example, you could say a show like NGE is about "depression"/"isolation"/"the difficulties people have connecting" or some shit, but diegetically it's just about killing angels while a secret organization tries to enact a plan to merge all of humanity together. That second part, the plot, is what this show has not even begun to set up.

Imagine the level of mental gymnastics required to think she's unrelated to a creature that kill its prey with poison when she's riding a mecha that is named after a poisonous plant.

>not discussing anime on an anime discussion board

BEGONE THOT

Go away.

But you're wrong about that too. What drives the plot is interwoven with the theme: the pilot pairs must gain each others' trust so that they may fight the Klaxosaur threat. Their survival depends on it. This is what has been driving the development of the plot intra-diegetically.

>Yes, the Jorougumo appears innocent. But that is only on the surface. Keep in mind that Ichigo says one thing to his face (that she has accepted Hiro riding Strelizia) and does another behind his back (trying to influence 002).
She doesn't. Zero Two says Hiro has made that choice and Ichigo says, "I know that". She is not trying to stop it. She is only pleading Zero Two not to hurt him.

>Yes? Why wouldn't I?
Because her sincerity and pain comes through.

But WHY are they fighting? Why are the dinos a threat? What is the end-goal, the reason they must fight these dinos? What is the deal with the mysterious adults?

The only thing referring to that in the show so far is the propaganda they fed to the children. "You are OUR PRIDE! now go and kill dinos you brats"