Conflict without reason. Resolutions of convenience

Monogatari series has a crucial flaw with it's conflict resolution. Almost every conflict that results in a physical confrontation is nullified by one of the participants or a third party entering the situation and dropping some kind of until-the-very-last-moment irrelevant information that either ends the conflict abruptly, prematurely, anticlimactically, or negates the very reason for the conflict in the first place. This is almost always done as a deus ex machina that delivers the characters out of the tension of the crisis immediately. Shinobu attacking black Hanekawa and biting her to subdue the apparition is about the only case in which a conflict was resolved by the direct action of the altercation, and even then, it only happened as a last minute deus ex machina. What all this amounts to is that just about every fight in the series is, substantively speaking, meaningless and extraneous.

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Wait. Except the vampire hunter fights in Kizu. Those had some pretty good good payoffs, and Hanekawa only spoiled the episode fight by revealing the Achilles heel, so not a big problem there.

Fun things are fun

I think you are missing the point satan
Monogatari isnt an action show or shounen
Most oddities are caused by a characters flaw that they need to over come
The oddity is what causes the fight/problem to begin with
The action parts are just to quell the oddities until the respective character fixes themselves or comes to a realization that gets rid of the oddity
Crab- gave away her emotions about her mother then got them back because she realized she needed to accept them
Monkey- she made a wish out of anger and jealousy knowing it would hurt someone this got resolved by clearing things up with crab
Snail- Araragi didnt want to go home which brought about snail who was the oddity
Cat- Stress regarding araragi and the tiger was her envy

It's prounounced Sateen, actually.

This element is not lost on me. The problem is that in a narrative sense there is a way for self-actualization to become the resolution of the character development without making the conflict meaningless, yet in every story that's the direction the conflicts go. I'm not saying courage punch every fight, but I am saying keep that event of resolution within the fight if that is the direction you want to go with the narrative.

I don't see how that's a flaw.

The conflicts and the oddities that cause them aren't important but they give some urgency to fixing a characters problems
He gives a character some specific personality problem to deal with and creates a reason for them to fix it, the oddity

That's neither a defense nor critique of my argument. That's just the narrative structure. This too is extraneous.

The only thing that matters in Monogatari is that Hanekawa is perfection

Monogatari is all about talking. MC can't fight in the first place. He is weak. He can only talk.


She literally turned all of her spaghetti into a cat ghost hidden from her crush only to dump it on him the week after she almost got him to fuck her on a gym mat. She might have gotten those sweet sweet Arararararagas if she didn't fuck up so bad.

>what is Kizu

Kizu is Kizu. It's not your typical monogatari story.

>no true scotsman fallacy

Poor Cat. Her boobs didn't help her.

Araragi loses a lot of his vampire abilities at the end of Kizu. Loses the rest of them after Mayoi Hell, yet somehow Kiss Shot Acerola Orion Heart Under Blade didn't reawaken and head out to devour mankind. Biggest plot hole in Monogatari if you ask me.

Kizu left me starving for more Araragi-Cat interactions. Now I want a spin off where they're actually dating.

Are you retarded or what. There's an arc about it. It's called Kabuki.

So did you forget the first few episodes of Bakemonogatari then?

Cat was fun in Kizu because she acted like a turboslut. Outside Kizu she is so boring holy shit.

I've only kept up with the anime. If it hasn't been Shinbo-ified then I don't know about it. Episode number?

Time travel arc

She was my favorite character even before Kizu, so you could say I like all version of her character.
She'd be a real slut if she kept teasing Araragi after he got with Crab. It's that uncomfortable situation where you have to stop being close both physically and emotionally from someone because they got into a relationship,and you have to refrain from behaving the way you usually do. That and kizu is the only time she was proactively seeking something. She also doesn't get much time alone with Araragi compared to Monkey or Hachikuji.

> She'd be a real slut if she kept teasing Araragi after he got with Crab.
But she did. Even more in the books. She kept teasing him even after Neko Shiro. I mean Neko Shiro itself is her attempt to steal him. She has no shame.

yeah the fighting isn't part of the narrative structure, it isnt important
the oddities, and by extension the fighting, serve as the climax of each arc but most of the show is the conversations in before and after. The oddities arent important and not really worth talking about in depth because no one thinks of it as a method to resolve conflict, just as a means to show a bad thing happening because of bad decisions

She has shame. It's buried deep inside her psyche where it becomes lust and becomes part of the black cat.

>I mean Neko Shiro itself is her attempt to steal him

If you're talking about the confession, she knew he'd say no. She just wanted to move on in my opinion. Otherwise the whole arc is her fighting against her repressed feelings and trying to reconcile with them.

Confession is confession after all.

And in my opinion she didn't really move on after Neko Shiro. She just distanced herself from Araragi to ease her pain.

Doesn't that fit the show perfectly? Isn't it supposed to be the ultimate blue ball experience?

The fights are there to show bad shit happening because someone isn't dealing with their shit. Winning them does fuck all, since whatever supernatural monster will just come right back in a few weeks if the shit that created them is not dealt with. The "deus ex machina" follows very consistent rules: the involved parties dealing with their shit. It's not some action series. It's a drama dressed up with puns, tits, and fights.

I'll make this quick because I have an exam in few hours.
>Almost all conflicts are resolved through "talking" is what you are talking about.
First of all, you forgot Araragi hiding sword in his body to destroy the black hanekawa. Also, araragi beat the shit out of the flame tiger.
You said information ends conflicts abruptly but you are only seeing the surface here. It's not words that solved many problems in monogatari, it is the character's "kokoro", or true feelings that alleviated the situations as in the case of Hitagi confessing her true thoughts to the crab god, or Kaiki teaching God Nadeko into believe in herself. The whole show is about people with wounded emotions and past histories, you are wrong in the first place to believe there is a right way of conflict mitigation in this show.
Next, let me school you on this boy, what do they teach you in school nowadays when you have beef with other kids? You talk it out right? You cannot resolve matters unless you directly speak up what's in your damn mind. Resolutions of convenience you say? All the "words" you got problem with in this story is an actual attempt at alleviating the sources of conflicts in the very beginning. The whole "words" your ignorant ass cannot keep up with is a plot device that slowly works out to heal the very woulds characters have deep inside their heart. One anti-thesis that supports this case is the relationship between Hitagi and Kaiki in Koimonogatari. Hitagi and Kaiki don't get along, they don't even communicate properly. Words are absent in their contact. That's why at the end of the arc, Hitagi grudgingly says she can never forgive Kaiki for what he did to her.
I'm not mad at you here OP, I'm just giving you the nice opportunity to reflect on your arrogance that has its roots in ignorance.

I think you should have read the thread

The only flaw is why Ragi is dating crab.

Isn't the point that a lot of the conflicts aren't actually resolved because Araragi refuses to tackle the hard truths, leading to the actual "resolution" in Owari where he finally decides to accept the hypocrisy of his own ideals (but not to change his ideals, as symbolized by still saving Snail from hell and Sleeves from oblivion despite those being the wrong things to do) while most of the other characters had to solve their own problems after getting blueovaried by Ararararagi?

She does, but she had more pain to deal with than just Araragi. It was also a mountainload of lost childhood and harsh realization that her trying to get along with her parents would never work, a lot of shit.

People miss a lot of stuff because the anime skipped a lot of Hanekawa's revelations you got in the novel. She DID talk to people about her family issues before and they shunned her, and post Shiro she left because her home had o place for her, people think asking for a room helped with her parents, but they still don't ever accept her as their daughter, the irony was the attack during Neko Black only served to fix their marriage because the bums were forced to talk it out in the hospital, they never ever make up with Hanekawa, even after Shiro. She cried on the way back home from Senjou's to ask for a room, because she knew it would only be her getting it until graduation, it would never be "her" home. The anime cut that sadness she had out and made it look happier than it was.

Some like to compare her and Hitagi, but Hitagi always had a diehard supportive papa, before and after her incident, it's why she is such a fathercon. And got full family support post incident when he took her to visit relatives, yet she still blames herself for her mother, as she admits to Tsubasa and Koyomi, even now.

I mean, Hanekawa lives a pretty sobering life, her birth mother hanged herself over her bed, and none of her relatives ever gave a damn about her.

She has a real reason to cry other than Araragi.

>Also, araragi beat the shit out of the flame tiger.

Eh, some.memtion how cool that is, but all I can think of is that he only had to because Hanekawa's powers were hard countered by it and she would burn to death just hard absorbing it, while Araragi has a sword just given to him that he snipes the thing with while it's distracted that one shots oddities.

So when you analyze it, Hanekawa was the ballsier of the two trying to fight the thing.

Then again, who cares? He wouldve genuinely let her die for Shinobu with that duel anyway. She got lucky they ended it so quickly.


Can I just say that the ost for Shinobu arcs is fucking legendary? I didnt really care for the osts that much, more for the openings, but after this rewatch holy shit was I wrong. This is (imo) the best ost out of Owari 1.


>every fight is meaningless
>he expected fights in a dialogue-driven series to be meaningful
fault your own stupidity for expecting stupid things

>Shonen fags autists expect fights in every anime.
How can someone reach this level of stupidity?

watch and read only anime and manga that revolves around punching people really hard and fighting on against all odds with the power of determination and powerups and shit writing.
soon you'll lose any semblance of reading comprehension you once had, becoming a bastion of illiteracy and intellectual incompetency. bnhafags

What's up with retards and their issue with dialogues? Did they not read real novels while growing up? Faggots like you won't make it beyond 2 pages reading The Brothers Karamazov. Sad.

You are cocky now, but never forget that it was Cat that enabled their relationship and helped her when she tried to suicide, under threat of death by eye beams even.

If she hadn't stopped Araragi from indulging in her suicide by cop, she'd be dead. Cat saved her. Which makes me wonder where Hanekawa would go if she died, from Monogatari standards, with the ethics she used for vampire and human cohabitation in Tsubasa Sleeping. Then again, Nisio had her on the power level chart of his characters as the wisest and most moral of all his characters, so she might escape Hell, even if she helped save a vampire. Dollars to donuts she goes to heaven.

Further, for a man as unfaithful as Araragi is, you should probably be more uncomfortable with it, with the revelations to his inner thoughts we saw through Ougi, both Cat friends and Bat friends should rethink their positions.

Well, a big part of him wanting to return human was cat. What would've happened if she didn't exist? Perhaps after a lot of thinking and discussing he would've joined her? Besides, worst case he wouldve comitted suicide in that situation, and since I'm a batfag I dont think thats actually that bad. Sure she loved him, but not like their bond was as strong as it is now. And sure, why rrgi is a fucking cheating cuck, as long as Shinobu is happy in the situation she currently is, I'm happy too. I dont know what other people think being a "catfag" or "batfag" means but honestly I just want her to get what she wants, and from judging owari 2, she seems pretty happy despite rrgi being a fucking shithead. Which, in return, means that I couldn't be happier. For me having Shinobu as my life time waifu, my goal isn't for her to win the rrgi bowl. I want her to be happy. Besides, we could go on and on about how bat won the rrgibowl already and its just a matter of time but thats a different story.


Fuck I love Monogatari but I cannot force myself into reading further than second season because of my special circumstances.
>be me moonrunes supremacist when it comes to reading novels (gook is my native language, can't read jap)
>I have a faith that reading the Monogatari novel and then watching the anime is canon for each arc
>currently residing in the US, so can't buy legit gook version (Fedex overseas fee is a bitch)
>Can't motivate myself into reading english trash translations beyond because I believe Bakemonogatari is the onliest one bible

Am I a bitch

Every fight is intentionally meaningless because none of the series' true conflicts can be resolved through fighting in the first place. Just about every fight and its resolution is just a stopgap measure to prevent from the problem from temporarily escalating until the character who is at the core of is capable of overcoming it psychologically.

If there is a fight at the end of any one arc and the one side "losing" is what brings it to a close then that arc doesn't actually solve any of the issues at the core of the explored character's personality, just beats them down with a hammer to give the character more time to try and fix themselves because you can't actually "force" someone to change or improve without them actually having any agency in the situation that isn't just indulging in their flaws.

Basically, every fight is just a session with the psychologist and meant to give the characters some food for thought and a better look at the core of their issues, which eventually guides them to taking action to better themselves with their own power. It's why Araragi never really "saves" anyone in the traditional sense, just helps them find the strength and means to help themselves.

Nah man, that's the reason why I'm picking up moon. I've spent like 5000 hours just so I can get closer to reading the one true book in its original language. Especially so because of Shinobu.

So if Araragi and Senjougahara break up, who gets custody over Hanekawa and Kanbaru? And if Araragi keep Kanbaru, then does she get promoted from her position as his sex slave?

If P(A and S) = 0, you can just make it P(A) + P(S).

Ah, I see. You simply input the distributive property. Will this be on the test with the material that showed us how to solve for the circumference of Kanbaru's ass Professor user?

What is this Sodachi shit

>no third party to protect math from being beaten by a brute
Nisio was also cruel making her an accountant instead of at least allowing her to do real math.

First one was for OP. Though seriously, owari 1 was a nice story with no magical solution for anyone, and Araragi having to deal with it directly with no help and everyone growing a little with that experience.

Nobody knows where Hanekawa will go post Musubi. She has a wolfgirl who is attracted to her, we know Hitagi is attracted to her, but the thing is, she is working as a revolutionary for pacifism in her adult life. She might just be the lonely leader forever and become a true oddity.

The manga adaptation is done by Oh! Great? Looks like his style, and he'd be a nice fit.

Meh. I'd rather have Okojo, Homunculus or Yakumi.

An Ogure Ito Hanekawa? That dude is an old hat at hot megane girls who look like supermodels when they take them off.

Catfriends, you are in for a treat.

Okojo is good because he keeps his stuff faithful to the humor of Monogatari, but Oh! Great is a vet.
One of the best realistic looking fantasy design in the biz.


Still hurts.

Hitagi is just better.

gonna have to agree with Araragi just doesnt have anything in common with Cat, except for finding each other attractive
Crab is silly sometimes, knows exactly how to tease araragi and knows the same pop culture stuff as araragi

Araragi said he can't go out with Cat because he thinks he isn't worthy of her. So he chose someone of his level of garbage, Crab.

It's boring shit

80% filler.

> said he can't go out with Cat because he thinks he isn't worthy of her.
He never said something like that.

Mayoi Hell.


He can't go out with Cat because he doesn't love her and never did. When he met Crab he didn't even think about Cat. Like "I love Cat, I can't go out with other girl".

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about love.

you implied that the reason he isn't going out with Cat is because he thinks he's not worthy of her
I'm saying its because he doesn't love her romantically

We are in The Age of Bat. Nisio doesn't care about any other girl now.

He likes Cat, he really does. And it as been stated and confirmed that besides from "lust" he didn't go out with Cat because he thinks she is too good for him. So the best option for him is Crab because he can relate himself with her because of how trash they are. Don't get me wrong, I know he loves crab.

This. Her time has finally come. Fuck the rest of the shitty cast.

This. It's time for the most interesting character.

> he can relate himself with her because of how trash they are
It's more simple.
Crab is open, straightforward, funny, witty, romantic, loving and caring.
Cat is opposite to Crab.
That's why he fell in love with Crab.

not to mention Cat is super boring, her only personality traits are that she's smart and nice

>It's time for the most interesting character.
More Kanbaru content?

>That's why he fell in love with Crab.
Yes because both her and him are trash. Simple like you said.

But we are starting the glorious but short age of math now with Zoku and Oroka. If you mean monster season, the next book is about Mayoi and we don't know if bat will be relevant or even appear there.

Kanbaru's done. She didn't became a specialist. She chose an ordinary life.

I dont think there is much monkey outside Orokamonogatari where she pairs up with Ougi
the fun times are over

Shinobu is always relevant since she is always with Araragi. And with Deathtopia's arrival Shinobu is even more relevant.

I wouldn't bet on every book being about her just because she was prominent in a book called shinobumonogatari, especially with two books that are years away already named after deathtopia for the season conclusion.

Remember Oni?
Oh shit snail is about to die, well lets just tell you Nobus backstory that'll lead up to Owari.
For all that we know, especially in the context of yoimonogatari, shinobu might very well be part of it. Good chance for Shimonogatari and Dollmonogatari as well, although I'm not so sure about Ougimonogatari.

Too bad we know for sure there will be no progress between Shinobu and Araragi in Monster Season.
But maybe she comforted him after breakups with Hitagi, it can be interesting. I hope we will get a summury for every book.

Still seems early to me to call the age of bat when she has no named arc in both anime or LN for a long while. The monogatari cast is only getting larger, I doubt Nisio will focus in an entire character the whole season. I wouldn't be surprised if even more girls will still get introduced.

>Too bad we know for sure there will be no progress between Shinobu and Araragi in Monster Season.
How do you know that? There has only been released 1 book so far. Maybe in the deathtopia arcs there will be anything Shinobu and Araragi improvement. Probably around 2023 or so.

> she has no named arc in both anime or LN for a long while.
Shinobu Mustard, user.
Nisio fucking loves her. Deathtopia is also a part of Shinobu's development.

> How do you know that?
Because in Musubi their relationship is the same. Nothing really changed since Owari.

>no named arc in both anime and LN for a long time
Meh, Bon appetit is in like 2 seasons.

Because it wasn't supposed to be focused on their relationship? Wait till Monster season ends.

I meant none in the near future, and deathtopia arcs are still very far. I really don't see any age of bat, probably just some random appearance in those books like any of Araragi collegemates and the original cast could.
That's in 2 years at best (if they make oroka and waza a single season, instead of the half season specials they have been making).

I just want an arc where rrgi and Shinobu live together in the abandoned ruins after hundres of years passed and rrgi has embraced his vampire self. Pretty much like Bakeonimonogatari, of course I also wouldn't mind the intimate time between rrgi and cutenobu being animated.

Combat was more prominent on the first season but from second season everything is solved just in a more psychological way, I prefer this approach

The closest to that is Kabukimonogatari. For the rest we will have to wait. By the way, pic related is one of the best ShinobuxAraragi doujins out there.

I hope Monster Season won't be the last one. We need pregnant Hitagi and Kissshot.

>pregnant Kiss-Shot