Remember watching Naruto learning how to do the Rasengan and thinking "Wow...

Remember watching Naruto learning how to do the Rasengan and thinking "Wow, this reflects how people go through challenges in real life." You couldn't help but feel for Naruto because despite the fact that was a loner his entire life that everyone hated, he still had the inner spirit to try his best no matter what.
Remember during that entire sequence seeing the funny interactions with Jiraiya and loving how cool and genuine he was as a character.
And everything was paced perfectly as Naruto went through the water balloon, rubber ball and the air balloon, eventually leading up to the sequence where Naruto finally does the Rasengan correctly while protecting Tsunade. It was an epic moment of victory that just made chills go down your back.

Contrast that with lets say the pain arc. Where we have this ultimate evil disaster inducing super powerful enemy that just strolls into Konoha and kills everyone there by literally smooshing the entire city with an invisible gravitational force. The whole time you're just thinking "What the fuck happened to the sense of logic and charm that all the abilities in this show had." Then Naruto shows up and beats Pain through a massive flashy senseless power rangers/Godzilla sequence. This is followed by Naruto talking to pain and convincing him that he was wrong all along (because its that easy to convince an ultimate evil who just killed thousands that he was wrong). This is then followed by pain resurrecting every single person he killed during this sequence, reducing the value of death to nothing and killing any sense of tension the show might had.

Why did Naruto take such a fucking nosedive? I mean it isn't that hard to see why what happened is retarded and yet Masashi Kishimoto still somehow thought it was a good idea to write it in?

fuck off

totally get you brah. been questioning this since 1999.

i think that might've been the exact moment the show started to plummet

The pain arc in itself wasnt even bad in my opinion. Sage mode made sense and naruto being able to work around the limitations of it (using meditating shadow clones) was really creative and cool. Also it was the first time in the show where he really felt "strong" without the ninetails. Sage mode had so much potential to develope interesting strategies and jutsus around - remember that was the time where strategy was still an important part of most fights ...

Then they pulled that "i will not fight pain" shit. At first it felt absolutely anti-climactic and stupid, but i really started to like that approach shortly after.
It showed us just how much naruto had matured as a person and how fit he really was to be the hokage. He knew that violence only breeds violence and he was powerful enough to clench his teeth and engage in conversation with his mortal enemy, that, at that point, had killed several of his closest friends and leveled the entire village.

And goddamn it would've been amazing if Pain didnt pull that "I will now resurrect everyone who ded, cause reasons" shit, completely destroying the whole weight this whole "let's talk" decision had in the first place.
It just went downhill from there ...

i'm glad he revived everyone. I liked Kakashi and a bunch of other people who died.

Also I like the show and didn't think it went downhill at all. It was always good.

Sasuke going full retard after being told Itachi's story might've also been a major turnover point in the series' quality.

It was actually so weird how we went from "Sasuke finally confronting Itachi after all this build up and all these years"
"sasuke out of nowhere fighting some rapping black dude who uses 8 swords and completely destroys him and his whole squad in a matter of seconds, only for the fight to be absolutely inconsequential in the end"

Jiraya being able to keep up with pain made sense but after that the power creep went through the roof. Sharingan went from a reasonable power to god mode and kishi came up with other bullshit powers was the only way to make it less overpowered. Strong ninjas went from talented individuals who could be beaten by teamwork to weapons of mass destruction who couldnt be touched by anything else than another said weapons.

pain arc deaths were just cheap setup for the revival

good. I would have hated it if they all stayed dead. I liked Kakashi

i actually loved how kakashi's death hyped up pains abilities in a way. Such a beloved character died an absolutely miserable death only to gather info on pain's shinra tensei.
Just how Jiraya died absolutely miserably only to deliver the information that pain controls several chakra puppets ...

It made Pain feel unbelievably powerful and made the fact that naruto could stand his own against that opponent without help from the kyuubi truly awesome.
I mean until that point naruto was pretty much just beaten to a pulp over and over again only to either get saved by others or to get some help from the kyuubi

The last fight of the series was against a powerful enemy that could only be beaten through teamwork. What are you talking about? Kaguya was defeated by Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, and Kakashi working together/

same thing with madara it took sasuke, naurto, and guy to go toe to toe with him.

I wish Jiraya was revived too.

exactly lol there was always teamwork in the series.

Kaguya wasnt beaten by teamwork ... Kaguya was an all powerful enemy that could only be beaten, because Naruto and Sasuke received a godlike powerup out of nowhere (Naruto could lay on hands and save people from death ffs)

By the end of the series, if you didnt at the very least have a Mangekyou Sharingan, you were absolutely worthless. And even if you had one you were only good for the sidelines, like kakashi.

To even stand up to Madara and Kaguya you literally had to be born as a reincarnation of the sage of the six paths and his brother.

Teamwork, Training and determination were absolutely inconsequential at that point

who is guy?

I only wished Kakashi was the MC or he had a child and wife at least.

>Naruto and asuke trying to seal Kaguya
>she flies away dodging easily
>Sakura punches her on top of the head hitting her back down between naruto and sasuke
>naruto and sasuke seal her
>somehow this isn't teamwork


maybe he does have a child. Have you been watching boruto?

Fuck off.

the only reason naruto and sasuke stood a chance was because they were working together. If either faught her 1 on 1 they would have lost. They needed teamwork. Working together.

That point literally showed everything the series had become

A character uses one of the most hyped up jutsus we knew of, a jutsu, that everyone knew, ends in certain death but gives you godlike abilities in return.

He then fights madara for a bit. Does absolutely nothing (no injuring an edo tensei puppet that regenerates any injury in seconds doesnt count as doing anything) and then doesnt even fucking die.

Cause naruto got a godlike powerup out of fucking nowhere for no real reason except that he was born as some sort of demi god all along? And then this Demi god bands together with sasuke, a fellow demi god reincarnation, to fight literally the god of ninjas ...

Sorry Gai and Lee, you might train harder than anyone else but if you're not born as a Demi-God you're just worthless in the end.

pain should have been the final enemy of the series

why? I didn't want anyone I like to die. Kill off side characters if someone has to die. No one important.

The rasengan was so impressive but then at the end they started farting out what were basically nuclear bombs.
How'd it ramp up so fast, especially since most characters still used the fucking knives near the end.

I disagree entirely. It's good the series kept going. I wish it lasted even longer to be honest. I love Naruto.

because Naruto got stronger therefore his jutsus got stronger. That's what training does. Why train if you don't get more powerful?

You do realize regardless of a god like power up or not. Sauske and naruto defeating madara and kaguya would basically make them gods among men anyways.
not to mention the godlike powers tie in extremely well with the generational theme of naruto.

I guess i phrased my objection unclearly, so i'll try again.

Teamwork was valuable, but ONLY if you were some sort of Demi God or at the very least a Mangekyou user or Jinchuuriki.

Sakura being able to do something in the end is just pandering if you're really honest ... the opponent was a teleporting ninja god, who was able to see in a 360 Degree vision cone (byakugan powers she of course also had) and literally able to warp reality to her liking.

But somehow Sakura, who wasnt really known for her speed or any stealth abilites just suddenly pops up behind her and gives her a good smack.

Then again Sakuras power was hyped to be roughly equal to tsunade's ... another character who kinda got shoved to the sidelines when the power levels exploded.
Who cares if you've got the strongest punches if you can never hit anyone, cause everyone around you suddenly has at least 2 kekkei genkais and is a goddamn master ninja.

Anyone even remember Sarutobi? If you look back at what that guy actually could do, it was actually funny how weak he looks comparatively to all those ninja gods that were around in the end ...

i don't know man, you had this super godly ninja with the weird ass eye, that had been hyped the whole series, and the dude actually lives to that hype, literally kills most ninjas you would consider strong, can fight the fox that was argubly the strongest thing in the universe, and then, hurr durr this faggot is right, let me revive everyone, and then the evil dude that nobody cared about revives all the bad guys too, and everything went to shit

I don't think it went to shit. I enjoyed the entire series up to the very end. I was really happy when he revived everyone

If Kakashi had a child they wouldn't be at the retard academy.

How exactly do godlike powers tie in well to the generational theme? Sarutobi was able to nurture a new generation and he was just a normal, if extremely talented, ninja and not some god that accidentally leveled whole mountains whenever he missed an attack ...

Also whats with the other themes of naruto? For example the "effort beats talent" theme they had going with neji, rock lee, sasuke, naruto etc.?

Didnt we just learn in the end that effort is worthless, since all it comes down to is if you're born as some sort of demi god?

The reason naruto was so inspiring in the first place was because he was a total fuckup. But still he kept hanging in there and giving it his all just to be able to pursue his dreams.

I dont think the logical endpoint of that arc should be "but then naruto realized that he was a demi-god all along, so all is well"

pain reviving everyone who died is crucial to one of the biggest through lines of naruto.
How can naruto complete his character arc, and become hokage if everyone in the leaf village is dead.


by tied in well I'm not talking about power level, I'm talking about the relationship we saw mirrored throughout the series of two friends going their own ways and seeing how each played out differently.

i don't fucking know, i'm not writing the damn, but if the villain actually blew the whole thing you better have a good follow up after that, something better than convincing the guy that has been working for the last 3 years in a superweapon meant to blow entire cities to revive everyone because muh peace

Most people were saved by tsunade's slugs though ...
Pretty much the only ones who should've died were Jiraya, Kakashi, a few nameless nobodies and maybe Hinata (only maybe).

Nagato being able to revive everyone was a giant asspull.
Also, if most important characters were alive at end.

I'm not the OP though

Dangit, Naruto was my childhood and it should've been great from start to finish :-(

What's wrong with the ninja academy? It's where literally every leaf ninja went. How is it now the retard academy?

It was pretty fantastic from start to finish with some moderate dips. especially when you compare it with other shounen series of its time.

Dunno wasnt still being willing to talk to the guy who just blew up your hometown and killed a load of your friends the thing that made the whole thing so good?

I mean the theme was "breaking the circle of revenge is difficult"
If Naruto hadn't lost anyone or anything in that attack then his willingness to still talk and negotiate would've been completely meaningless, no?

I mean i guess convincing pain in a span of 30 minutes that his whole life was a lie was pretty dumb though ...

it was good that everyone was revived though. I like a happy ending

I wish Jiraya was revived as well actually. And it'll be even worse if Hinata died. Kakashi, Jiraya, and Hinata definitely should not have died. Fine with nameless nobodies dying if people have to die. No one important though.

Jiraya and Kakashi were very important and should never have died. And since they did die both should have been revived not just kakashi.

it was great from start to finish. And i'm enjoying Boruto so far. I have literally 0 complaints. People just like to hate.

nah it wasn't dumb. You're right it was about breaking that circle of revenge which he did. Great ending to the arc.

Kakashi had zero importance besides Obito.

>it was great from start to finish
Kill your fucking self.

Kakshi was their sensei... how did he have zero importance? He was in a lot of big fights and played a huge role in the story.

why? Naruto is my favorite anime of all time. I love it.

I think Naruto was supposed to end around that point.
Naruto beats Pain, Sasuke "beats" Itachi. Naruto gets recognized by the village, Sasuke gets his revenge, and both of their narratives are wrapped up.
At that point, all that would be left is to deal with Kisame and Zetsu, then let Naruto and Sasuke have their inevitable final clash.
The kage summit and the ninja war were where most of the downhill spiral was.

that was not a downhill spiral. The war was awesome. Also after pain would have been a terrible place to end the series.