Who was in the wrong here: Kiritsugu, or Saber?

Who was in the wrong here: Kiritsugu, or Saber?

IROHASu!!

Kiri's view was perfectly in line with that of a magus, and it's a tournament between magi.

But magi are evil, it's not good to think like a magus

>evil
It's more like being completely devoid of emotion and only picking the logical choice (or at least that's their ideal, they still sometimes show emotion and at least in Zero that's usually the point where they die).
Still, it's a war between magi. You picking the morally righteous choice just means you are more likely to die because none of the other combatants will give a shit about that.

>It's more like being completely devoid of emotion and only picking the logical choice (or at least that's their ideal, they still sometimes show emotion and at least in Zero that's usually the point where they die).
But that's what it means to be evil

Only evil can defeat evil.

Kiritsugu is always wrong, so him.

Kiritsugu could have had let hotwheels live but no. Muh war and playing for winning

>killed his father, preventing an inevitable next outbreak at some point in the future
>killed his sensei to ensure the hornets wouldn't fuck up the city after the plane landed
>rejected the grail because it would have meant sacrificing humanity for the sake of Illya
Kiri pretty much always makes the right decision, it just also often brings even more suffering for him because he's incapable of putting his own wishes first and leading his life for himself.

He did it because if he had taken out another master that master's servant could have formed a new contract with hotwheels.
Not like he killed him for no reason at all, he just wanted to make sure that this team is permanently removed from the game and doesn't pop up again later on to stab him in the back.

>fuck him for trying to win!
Are you going to call him a tryhard next?

Kiritsugu since he didn't tap that.

>Saber
>worth tapping

>No command seals left
>form new contract

And before you say Kirei, Kiritsugu didn't know that could happen.

Kiritsugu

Saber. her 'Muh honor' bullshit was bullshit.

It's not just about the grail. You can't just cripple someone, maim their waifu, and destroy them in the grail war and then just expect them to not be a thorn in your side for the rest of your life.

Hotwheels had already killed the overseer to cheat his way back into the war. He was capable of playing dirty. Don't give him the chance to do so.

Why is Saber like this in Zero anyways? She's always been Pragmatic in SN. Hell, it's not even an influence of previous wars, she's just as pragmatic back in Camelot.

Isn't that the reason she was ostracized in the first place?

saber is always wrong

>Why is Saber like this in Zero anyways?

>zero saber: okay acting like that when i was alive didn't work, let's try something else
>fsn saber: well that was a disaster, let's not do it again

If there's anyone dumber than Kiritsugu, it's Saber.

Kiritsugu wasn't dumb. He made the correct decisions every time.

Why didn't Natalia just landed the plane on water?

But he killed millions.

Saber was wrong. She is a servant, a tool needed to win the tournament. She can question Kiri's methods all she likes but like a sword she has one fucking job.

She'd still be trapped in it and eventually die.

No idea what that shit would do to the sea let along if it could wash up on shore eventually.

Saber was wrong.
>being professional and thorough in a death tournament with almost-omnipotent wish-granting device on the line is "dishonorable"
Honorcucks should fuck off

Nothing wrong with having honor yourself, but you cant get mad at someone else for not having any.

>steer plane away from land
>land it on water
>shatter cockpit window and jump out of plane
>blow it up

>shatter cockpit window and jump out of plane
user, the bees were trying to escape the plane as well. There's a very real chance that they'd break through the door and escape the same way Natalia did. Then the whole thing would have been pointless.

Fair point. But still, Saber went full retard that time.

ding ding ding.

Look at Artoria and Diarmuid throwing bitchfits becaus the rest of the wordl didn't play by their rules. Based Cu just took that shit in stride even if he didn't like it.

>There's a very real chance that they'd break through the door and escape the same way Natalia did.
The cockpit doors of commercial airlines are nearly impossible to break without the use of explosives. I'm not sure what the airline standard was in the 90s for cockpit doors, but I'd assume they'd at least be extremely durable and bulletproof.

>break window
>bees get loose
>???
>profit

>All heroes are murderers and nothing more

Yeah, Kerry's kind of wrong

There weren't bees or ghouls in the cockpit.

The only people Kiritsugu killed were dickass mages who deserved it. Good riddance to them.

Until something like a high speed impact breaks a few doors
>b-but that's not guaranteed to happen
Risks that shouldn't be taken

But what about his dad, his mentor and entire city when he broke the grail?

Both are wrong, but at least kiri realizes he was in the end.

>his dad
Deserved it
>his mentor
Couldn't be helped
>the Fuyuki Fire
Blame Kirei and Angra Mainyu

>his dad
dickass mage even though the zombie outbreak wasn't his fault at all, it was all because of that retarded tanned whore
>his mentor
dickass anti-mage
>entire city
not his fault

>leaves the serum out for Shirley to find
>confesses that she was one of his experiments
>wasn't his fault

>muh morals
>muh honor
>muh chivalry

Kerry was right in a fucking war there is nothing to be gained so better for one guy to be the asshole and end it as quickly as possible.

>leaves the serum out for Shirley to find
Bzzt, she broke into dad's lab when he wasn't looking.

Saber was dumb. Even Shirou realized she had a dumb self pity wish that wouldn't have helped anyone.

Both are slaves to differing ideals that break them both.

Kerry wasn't broken, though

He totally was, even Kotomine lost interest in him at the end after he saw his state

Saber. It was kind of dumb of her to get so worked up over a dumb fight in a dumb war, especially since her goal is to obtain the grail at all costs

Why should he have let him live?

He should have raped him.

How broken would Kerry be if he lived to the 5th war and met Archer?

Saber was being stupid and childish in this scene, but that doesn't mean Kiritsugu wasn't being a fucking idiot in just about every other time. He just happened to make the right decision here to eliminate hotwheels.