So we can all agree that /k/iritsugu was the best character in all of the Fate series...

So we can all agree that /k/iritsugu was the best character in all of the Fate series, because he was the only one who was smart enough to bring a gun to a magic fight?

It's the only one who don't have magus pride, so yeah.

*dies to grail aids*

>Kayneth fortifies his entire building with magic
>"There's no way he'll be able to beat me now
>Kiritsugu just Jihads it up

Kiritsugu is the worst character in Fate/Zero except maybe Caster and therefore the worst character in the Fate series

Fate/stay night has subtlety and Fate/Zero does not.

>he was an assassin
>he didn't summon an assassin class servant
>instead summon a servant he is incompatible with

Can someone explain how/when kiritsugu died?

see

>F/SN
>Subtlety
El Em Ay Oh, user!

Get a brain transplant.

He's in like 6th place on his best day. Hell he's like 4th in his own series.

omg this

Why tf I never think about it?

Fz was great
Kirei>kerry though

He dies of Grail Aids around 1999.

>guns
Lets be honest, Holy grail wars NEVER have good magi in them. Those who are powerful never bother with the ritual. Even the four strongest arent that strong

>Zouken
Arguably the most powerful one, Archmagi who is 300 years past his prime. Not actually that powerful anymore
>Rin
Well above average or even decent magi but she is only 18 at this point and has morals
>Kiritsugu
Only has one type of magic and his trumpcard wont work on a good magus
>Kirei
Gets Kiritsugu and punch of casters familiars. Doesnt even do spells and is below Bazett but >Bazett

Someone like Arya, Ciel, Aoko or Touko could wipe the floor with the four at the same time. Hell, Toukos and Aryas workshops should be on par with casters and Servants cant even kill them, just destroy physical vessels.

Guns arent used in Typemoon for a reason

> subtlety

> fate

I liked his pragmatic attitude towards modern tech and violence, as opposed to "muh magus pride" and "muh chivalric code", but his retarded ideals rub me the wrong way. Sure, Shirou's way worse but Kiritsugu is bad too.

He explicitely comments about it in the novel secondary-kun

He says it in the anime as well.

Shirou is a broken character because he had ridiculous morals imposed on him right after enduring a tragedy he couldn't control, and led a lifestyle that was hollow. The tragedy in Shirou's childhood molded him into an incomplete person, and he comes to terms with this throughout F/SN.

Kiritsugu killed his dad because he was just born with retarded morals and the ability to kill his own father for doing bad things. Kiritsugu isn't even a character, he's just a personification of utilitarian morality. He kills everyone he loves then gets mind broken a little bit. Kiritsugu was always an incomplete person for no reason, and Urobutcher plays up his nonsensical psychopathy garbage for upvotes.

>but his retarded ideals rub me the wrong way. Sure, Shirou's way worse but Kiritsugu is bad too.
And unlike Shirou, Kiritsugu gets punished hard for being an idiot.

Zero was written by Urobutcher.
Everyone except Waver, Kirei and Gilgamesh got fucked hard

As long as secondaries exist, Sup Forums will never like Kerry.

Oops, I meant always instead of never

>Sup Forums
>liking Kerry
user, please

It's really pretty incredible how so many of you fags claim to love Fate/Zero and still completely miss the point.
Says something about how shit of a writer Urobutcher is.

He might be smart enough for that, but...
Isn't wishing world peace from a thing that
periodically pops into existence and requires people to fight eachother to obtain it seems comepletely retarded?

That's true. Instead of getting shafted Shirou gets to shaft cute girls instead.

Well to be fair isn't it true that basically nobody knew that the Holy Grail was all sorts of fucked up before the events of Fate Zero?

Why do Zerobabies think Kitisugu using guns makes him smart? Did they really miss the super special anti-magus bullets that made the guns work in the first place?

Yeah nothing bad happens to Shirou at all

>Lets be honest, Holy grail wars NEVER have good magi in them.
That's because all the good magi are trying to get true magic elsewhere.

>his trumpcard won't work on a good magus
Sorry user, but you can't out magic a bullet.

>deflect it
>block it
>survive it
>avoid it
Easy

>he doesn't know about the magical cyborgs that can dodge bullets after they're fired

>you can't out magic a bullet
>Zerofags

Nasu isn't any better.

>Nasu isn't any better.
Name one (1) character arc in Fate/Zero written better than Illya, Kotomine or Shirou's arcs.

Rin

Yeah, he did sme istakes but he tried to do the right thing when nobody else cared about. Best Emiya so far.

DUDE, Waver & Kotomine

gilgamesh
Saber

>Nasu needs a 60 hour VN to create decent characters.
>Uro gets the job done in a 1/3 of that time.
Hmmm

That was one hell of a Bizarre Summer

>DUDE
This is bait
>F/Z Kotomine > F/SN Kotomine
shit taste
I bet you think Kirei vs Kiritsugu is better than Kirei vs Shirou too. Disgusting.

>Gilgamesh
F/Z Gilgamesh is the most boring Gil there is, especially in the anime where they cut him reminiscing over Enkidu, the only interesting scene he has. Even if his characterization is all over the place in F/SN he's still a more threatening and effective villain in the directions he's taken.
>Saber
The only people who think Urobutcher wrote Saber well are people who have no idea how she was characterized in F/SN. He basically made up a new character, turning her into a caricature for no reason other than to have Gilgamesh and his OCs shit on her.
Her best scenes are her flipping out on Kiritsugu, because you can read it as her seeing herself in him even though Urobutcher clearly didn't intend that, and when she kills Lancelot because its when she's allowed to return to her characterization in F/SN.

>everyone in Zero is a manchild
>decent characters
Hmmm.

>both Shirou and Kerry are all messed up
>it's ok to love Shirou despite, or even because, of this
>but not Kerry
>you have to hold Kerry in utter contempt

>Fate/Zero
>decent characters

Does the VN explain grail aids?

Would right to be a master transfer with Toukos puppets?

>F/Z Gilgamesh is the most boring Gil there is, especially in the anime where they cut him reminiscing over Enkidu, the only interesting scene he has. Even if his characterization is all over the place in F/SN he's still a more threatening and effective villain in the directions he's taken.
If you seriously believe F/SN>Zero Gil then you're fucking retarded.

Was this ever explained? Isn't the HGW the easiest way to reach Magic for a competent magus?
I can't imagine Touko having any problems curbstomping all other masters in any given HGW.

Which one of them had to betray and destroy everything and everyone around them before they became a better person?

>Gil being a turbo dick for no reason is better than Zero Gil
Not really no

Shirou got to live a relatively decent life
Kerry got yanked by the balls through hell that fucked up his mentality

The Einzberns were the only well-known and respected family involved from the start. When the ritual began it was two hundred years ago in pre-industrial Japan, rumors were spread about it but it wasn't exactly well-known. The Third War was probably the peak of its reputation but then that got fucked up too.
When your ritual has repeatedly ended with failure and the death of most or all of its participants it's not as appealing, only eccentrics and lunatics would be drawn to it, people desperate to prove themselves or just there under orders or following tradition.

And Shirou's fucked up entirely because of Kerry's incompetence. He caused the fire that erased his old life, turned him into a freak by sticking Avalon in him, and fucked up his upbringing so badly he clings to a half-baked version of the ideals that Kiritsugu realized were wrong (yet still encouraged him to pursue on his deathbed) and almost kills himself every time he tries to do magic because he didn't even try to train him properly.
Kiritsugu had a lifetime of experiences that should have taught him that he wasn't living his life correctly, but he choked down all the pain and regrets because he was desperate to find a way to make it all worth it and just kept digging himself deeper. As late as the eve of the war, he had a chance to just walk away, take his family and run to secure their happiness like any decent man should have, but he damned them for his desperate dream.

Shirou is admirable because he could face himself and know what needed to change in his life, Kiritsugu drowned in his ideals and died a tragic and pitiable man.

Kerry is a faggot who gave up his wife and daughter for dipshit pie in the sky ideals, which turned to all be for naught anyhow. He did everything wrong.

Everyone knows Gilgamesh had no real character depth until Extra had to rewrite him so one of the series' most popular characters wasn't a total monster
Rapist Gil and Supervillian Gil are just as one-dimensional as Aloof And Also Later A Rapist Gil. He's simply a more effective and personal villain to Shirou in his F/SN characterizations even just by how absurd he is. Joining the shitting on Saber circlejerk didn't make him interesting, getting Mad at Berserker didn't make him interesting, having him be the one who tempted Kotomine was unnecessary and plays out as generically as it could, and reverting to his rapist dynamic with Saber at the end to lead into Fate route almost feels forced compared to how he's treated her up to that point. Saber is portrayed so pathetically in Zero that it's hard to believe Gil would want her even just as a fucktoy.

iskandar is literally the deepest character in the series

If he had summon Hundred Faced Hassan he probably could have steamrolled the war.

Shirou never had to deal with the guilt that a moment of hesitation destroyed everything he had known and loved. He got to live a decent life with his tragic past teaching him to be a better person, while Kiritsugu grew up in a living nightmare oh constant shit with a less than stellar mother. Shirou is still young and optimistic, Kiritsugu was on the verge of despair.

And in the end not even Kiritsugu nor Archer believed that his ideals were truly wrong, only that without proper moderation it can go down a very dark place. Shirou grew up with a better perspective on his father's ideals, and it shows in the VN.

And Archer is proof that despite all that, without the right people and perspective to keep him in line, Shirou is just as capable of going down a similar path as his father.

But of course, no one can like Kerry while understanding his flaws without being a Zerofag.

That's because Shirou focuses in living a happy life while being a good person. Kerry is willing to kill his daughter for his ideals. Shirou won't even let Saber die and she's a spirit.

What if he summoned himself?

I really hope we have a major story in Fate that's not bound to silly HGW shenanigans.

he needed the scabbard healing...

Kerry would then realize that he's wrong about everything.

>Fate/stay night has subtlety

Was Kerry or Saber right?

>lancer
Kerry
>Kayneth
leaning Kerry
>Sola
leaning Saber

daily reminder fate is literally soft-porn for autists with storyline

There is nothing soft about Fate's porn user

>Wojackposting on Sup Forums
newfriend