>anime industry is “big” >animators are paid shit, work about 11 hours >consumers of manga, LNs, and anime buy products that are already valued properly >anime is a niche hobby in japan; those who buy are probably dedicated but they are far and few between due to NEET lifestyle and jap culture of being a virgin wimp; most jap anime fans are lone wolves, unlike murican weaboos
Is it okay for animators to be paid shit?
What about the industry, if anything, should change?
Is change good? If anything changes it would probably have to be by a change in the consumer pool.
>animators are paid shit, work about 11 hours if the nip key anims get paid shit imagine what the chinese inbetweeners get paid.
David Anderson
The anime industry isn't big, you see the same few companies and same about 20 seiyuu animating/voicing everything these days, people that still think its a big thing are living a decade in the past when there was some mass appeal and buzz that brought people from all over into the fandom for a moment. Anime is stale in a lot of the same ways sitcoms were stale when people started getting into anime, when the same 10-20 scenarios make up 2/3 of every series that comes out you might as well be watching a single long running sitcom. On the other hand western TV today often has story progression which was one of the things that drew me to anime in the first place.
James Rodriguez
>anime >industry is worth at least half of Hollywood >niche
Jaxson Barnes
3DCG is the future of anime
Brayden Morgan
It’s most definitely a niche fandom in Japan. You will have better luck finding someone to socialize with about anime in an American highschool than you will in a Japanese one of they’re both in a major city. Before you go all screechy on me, an American fan will gladly talk to you about their favorite shows, ships, and all that shit. In japan, real anime “fans” are social outcasts that wonder why they even go to school. They’re neets. The industry is big, as I said before. It sounds like you forgot what my very first sentence was. But it feeds of the scraps of Japanese society’s population.
Adrian Jackson
Probably get paid in paper to make hats out of
Dylan Perez
>industry half the size of Hollywood is somehow supported by a few neets with barely any spending money
I think you need a course in economics and logic. Here's another hint, if anime really wasn't mainstream they would be absolute failures as source material advertisements.
Samuel Moore
Sure there are plenty of bad examples, but it will get better, there will be sucesses, and it will be a larger slice of the pie in the future. It sucks that there are going to be artistic failures in the meantime, but it's not going to destroy 2d art quite yet. Digital art saves time, meaning more frames, meaning more actual animation, and overall, while it hasn't been an undivided improvement over cells, the gain has been bigger than the loss. The same is probably what we'll see with 3DCG. We'll have some years of stuff as uncanny as ~Y2K anime, but come out ahead in the end.
As for addressing the money question directly, the big question is obviously in getting the wide masses to spend at least some money directly on the shows, instead of the casual anime fan in the west mostly putting their money in the pockets of crunchyroll and netflix, if at all.
Juan Kelly
If they're unhappy with their pay, they should start their own studios and publications and assume the risk that comes with the responsibility of deciding what they get paid.
>Anime is not mainstream. Anime is aired in 1 channel of the common TV channels that are not cable. Meaning if you have a TV and connection, you can watch that. However, it depends on what you mean by anime. If you're talking about animation, the art, it is used in some parts of many TV shows because it's just another way of showing a story. Like there's only 15% that is otaku in Japan of the whole population.
>Many people think that Japan is all about anime and that everyone loves it, but it's not like that. Not everyone is obsessed about it. It is definitely in our culture, that everyone has their favorite comic book from when they were a child but it does not at all dictate ones life. Most people don't have anime in their lives. But anime isn't seen as a childish thing. The categories would be boy, girl, unisex, women, men, child, adult, or a mixture of them. So sailormoon is usually a child girls’ anime, however, since it is an old one, all adults that watched it would know this. Pokémon is a combination of all, as in everyone knows and has and is loved by many, adults and children.
>i hope people don't think that just because a Japanese person knows some anime that one likes, it means that they have a bunch of figures and they are worshipping it everyday.
It’s not mainstream
Bentley Bailey
If you study economics you’ll learn that logic and intuition can’t replace experience and actually studying a market. Anime is as “mainstream” as American Heavy Metal. (Not)
Nolan Wilson
>quora
Wow thank you for using the modern equivalent of yahoo answers for your evidence.
Chase Sanchez
m.imgur.com/gallery/koaxz >”Anime is common, but it’s not mainstream. Yes, most modern people in Japan have watched anime. Most know some of the big names. But outside of kids titles, massive classics (Evangelion), and Ghibli, the average person knows few if any of the current big titles”
t. Some American that live in japan for 7 years
Dylan Bell
Right, instead all that money just magically shows up in the companies' pockets.
Jaxon Allen
I said I have more. I understand if that’s not enough. By the way? Other than >muh logic And >muh economics You sound like the only one saying it’s mainstream. Do you have actual substance to bring? Documents, statistics, testimonies? If you ask me for anything, I got what ya need homie
Samuel Ross
So manga and LNs are mainstream, but their advertisements, which can make their popularity skyrocket, are not. Excellent analysis.
James Anderson
t. A guy who think I said that amine dosent make a lot of money instead of thinking I said it’s a niche community of neets
Jaxon Wright
>homie
From your language I can already tell you're not from Sup Forums. Consider this your last (You) from me.
Trigger did a panel at a convention recently where they stated that they generally work with a budget of less than $150k per episode between a staff of about 80 people. That averages out to less than $2000 per-person for several months of work.
Alexander Hernandez
And somehow those neets who fail at school somehow manage to fund a growing industry that's already half the size of Hollywood in a country with a much smaller population. The flaw in your logic should be self-evident at this point.
Connor Torres
Anime besides pokemon and stuff airs on late night tv one day a week. America used to air more anime than japan on tv back in 2008. Various YouTubers who live/travel to japan or even have experience in the industry also say it’s not mainstream. The idea that it’s mainstream isn’t stupid, it’s just wrong. The more you know about it the more you learn that it’s actually not mainstream. I still have testimonies with decent ethos in my arsenal as well as stats, and numerical facts.
Jacob Thomas
Meanwhile GodAni keeps their staff on a salary and on regular work shifts.
Elijah Bell
Its not “my logic” I was once naive and thought It was mainstream too Until I heard what japs and japanese immigrants had to say. You were the last person to figure this out. It was apparent to everyone else since I took time to talk to you about this
Evan Turner
If animators are willing to work for shit, it's okay for them to be payed shit. And they always will be, because professional animators get into it because it's their dream, not to make money.
Lucas Gonzalez
Quite apparent that they save that money when hiring the director though.
Xavier James
>hiring
Charles Flores
>I heard a couple testimonies from some random joes >it must definitely be fact >who cares about the market worth or how anime effectively promotes mainstream properties like manga and LNs, since disc sales are only in the thousands it's not mainstream
I still find it amazing how someone could be so retarded they think a few neets could sustain a growing market with half the size of Hollywood.
Angel Murphy
Badly paid animators is a meem. They get paid by cut if they worked more they would be paid more. The other day somebody said that they even live outside of the city so their expenditures are not even that high.
Jackson Cook
The industry makes a lot of money But 1) that money dosent make it back to animators >What surprised you about making anime in Japan? >“I was surprised by how humble all the anime staff in the studio were, and how terrible their living conditions were, compared to the situation in the animation industry in the West. In a nutshell, the money don’t flow back to the animators (and other workers)—they are poor. Most of them spend most of their lives sat at their desks and are single because they have either not enough time or not enough money to build a family. Some of them are also extremely shy, like they cannot even answer you when you say hello. It can be disturbing at first.” 2) your name was an exception. Disney reigns supreme in japan for animated entertainment anime.stackexchange.com/questions/4943/are-anime-more-popular-than-western-cartoons > the whole thing, kek 3) the anime fans that do exist being just Yugioh, Pokémon and classics like Eva are not numerous compared to the population.
Elijah Turner
>jap culture of being a virgin wimp
This actually isn't true. It's a Western projection onto Japan because of Westerner's own insecurities. Go to japan and you'll see plenty of couples out on dates. People are fucking co-workers and cheating on their wives all the time, they're just choosing to not have children.
Nicholas Edwards
Are you a retard or why do you consider random internet users a valid source?
Liam Cooper
They would literally earn more flipping burgers at McRonalds.
Dominic Price
Its has moments where it’s a nation wide sensation but most nipfolk don’t know the anime we watch exist. That’s a fact
Austin Collins
Yeah but they can't have a career at McRonalds. If the animator is good he can climb and get paid more with less work.
Which they achieve by holding booby prize contests for toilet paper-tier source material and then duping the "winning" writers out of their royalties.
Kevin Bennett
It’s a general consensus that despite its overseas popularity and the money it makes, its not mainstream. Some sources are random dudes but plenty posted in the thread are Japanese folk, American/British folk who live/work(ed) in japan. That’s valid enough.
Ian Sanchez
Yes if you don't want to work for that much just don't and do something else. Management, currently we are heading in the same direction of creative bankruptcy and apathy of fans as Hollywood, all because some dickheads in suits pursue profit instead long term stability. Change is never good but sometimes it's necessary, and changing target audience will only hurt the industry just like it did with Hollywood.
Honestly I have no idea how people can fuck up the same shit time after time, you should never pander to normal people who don't buy shit, there is a good reason why idol garbage is popular, it's a product marketed toward people who buy shit so it sell. It's really that fucking simple.
Mason Baker
541k neets in japan (2016) japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/09/07/national/japan-home-541000-young-recluses-survey-finds/#.WpyzinBMGEc 127million people today. Less than one percent of japan is neets. Seasonal anime that we watch weekly is not mainstream. The culture impact is. The idea of anime is common place. But about 500k or less people are avidly watching anime. Way more are buying manga, playing games, that shit. But Is certainly a dimwit to just assume cause he sees gundam statue or a train with some art that anime is anything like Disney, Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, Hollywood, Pixar, etc.
Tyler Garcia
>admits that idea of anime is commonplace >says anime isn't anything like Disney, Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, Hollywood, Pixar, etc.
This is like saying that since arthouse films aren't popular, film isn't mainstream
Ian Scott
Watching anime is not common place Watching anime is not mainstream Was it that hard to put together You’ll never understand what anyone is talking about if you think their miraculously retarded I understand why people think anime is mainstream but the reality is that it isn’t.
Benjamin Parker
>It’s a general consensus that despite its overseas popularity and the money it makes, its not mainstream. Even late night anime has usually viewerships of ~1-2% of households with TVs. The Bundesliga has a TV viewership of 1.4 million, i,e. ~1.7% TV rating. The late night anime TV ratings aren't much lower than the Bundesliga TV ratings in Germany. And nobody would claim the Bundesliga isn't mainstream in Germany. This is a comparison between data from 2 different sources, so it's not the elegant method. But this should roughly match the reality of the situation. Anime often boosts sales of their source material by the hundred thousands, it's retarded to believe anime isn't popular.
>It’s a general consensus Dear god, you're an actual retard. General consensus doesn't matter. and often doesn't match reality.
NEETs do not equal anime watchers. Or do you actually believe that NEETs are able to buy the expensive anime merchandise?
Ayden Reyes
Their shows are just better than the rest, it can't be helped.
Carson Richardson
It's not in the same state as the sitcom industry. Being on a successful sitcom make you the highest paid actor on television. Making a successful anime means you might be able to afford dinner.
Jackson Thompson
Except you have no data to back your statements up while the market value speaks for itself. You're just pulling shit out of your ass.
Easton Perez
How are they objectively? I have just as much evidence that they're showier and gaudier than the rest.
Nathaniel Reed
>in Germany it’s popular on tv Is more popular in America. It’s still not mainstream You wish you could say that about japan don’t you bud >if people say it’s not mainstream either they pulled some unintuitive bullshit out of their asses and the intuitive opinion is right or there’s actually a perfectly natural phenomenon of presumptions being wrong Hmmm >neets don’t make up all anime viewers No shit, but who’s buying merch and watching late night Sunday anime because they don’t have work Monday?
Carter Allen
Better visuals, better audio, constant usage of actual photography techniques to the point of every damn scene having a purpose, better directing, better characterization, better nonverbal storytelling and the ridiculous consistency and great scheduling of it all just makes their stuff better. One could argue they use too much nonverbal storytelling since I've noticed that the average anime watcher is actually incapable of catching up the silent messages they shove in their shows. Hyouka, Hibike, Koe no Katachi and now Violet Evergarden are prime examples of them "overdoing" it. I'm using quotation marks because it's not actually overdoing anything, it's visual storytelling at it's finest.
Josiah Gomez
>”Late night anime is extremely niche.” >”Most anime that the international community consumes are “late night anime.” These shows air between 11 pm to 4 am in Japan. They also get laughably low TV ratings and the average Japanese person has never seen them. “ >”Since their TV ratings are low, these anime make money from Blu-ray and DVD sales. Merchandise helps too. The low ratings are explained with Japanese work culture and school hours. The average employee works 12 hour shifts, which doesn’t leave a lot of free time to watch every anime, even with a DVR. Then there are the school hours and the massive workload Japanese students have. Except for certain holidays, Japanese students only get Sunday off (which is why the weekends are packed with anime). However, the workload for students, club commitments, and general teenage life can get in the way of late night anime viewing. That leaves the otaku crowd, who are willing to stay up late to tune in to watch these shows. Basically, your favorite anime isn’t making money from TV, but that was the plan from the beginning. Most anime are infomercials. This is an open secret for Japanese fans. Late night anime, unless it’s aired on the Noitamina program on Fuji TV, will always be an infomercial.”
>”It is estimated that an anime series needs to sell around 5,000 copies per volume to break even. Only 20% of anime will reach that goal in the first year they are released.”
>”The thing to keep in mind is that anime is not a short term money maker. >”Conclusion: Yes, anime does make money, and as long as the manga and light novel industries are around, anime won’t be going away anytime soon. While we’d love to see more complete adaptations, we have to remember that the main goal of Japanese anime is to sell us manga and light novels.”
Jonathan Thomas
Source goboiano.com/heres-money-actually-made-anime/ More support 4 muh claim: >”Anime for kids and families make bank. This may come as a shock, but the anime you watch is not mainstream, unless you watch shows made for kids and families.” late night anime, the only anime we watch, is not mainstream. Kids shows that Sup Forums dosent every talk about is mainstream, sure. Movies are mainstream, sure, but anime? No. That’s false
Dominic Robinson
Now if only they could find some actually good source material, even if it means spending a little more that way than usual. Scamming a naïf who got rejected by fucking Kodansha comes off as kinda sleazy.
Isaac Allen
Tv ratings for anime that we watch are low as shit. It’s not mainstream. Most anime that the international community consumes are “late night anime.” These shows air between 11 pm to 4 am in Japan. They also get laughably low TV ratings and the average Japanese person has never seen them.
Gabriel Allen
> watching late night Sunday anime because they don’t have work Monday? Certainly NEETs who clearly get a 1000k yen paycheck from the goverment for being NEETs.
At this point you must be baiting, random internet form users are not valid sources.
>You wish you could say that about japan don’t you bud That was about Japan, you goddamn retard. The TV ratings in Japan for late night anime are 1-2%.
Cameron Rivera
>read source >"anime depends on disc sales to break even" >"most anime fail to break even" >"an example of a niche anime is Rokka no Yuusha (a light novel that ranks on Oricon)"
Into the trash it goes.
Liam Flores
How are they scamming her? They really liked her reviewed work, published it and made an anime out of it, so what. You also make it sound like kodansha is good when in reality there's a bunch of isekai shit right on their LN frontpage right now.
This is opinion changing worthy. It’s far more popular than I would have thought I was thinking less than a percent across the board for non-big-names. If Inu x Boku SS can get More than 1% consistanly except one instance, that’s way more than I would have guessed. Ill say the definition of niche is unclear. It certainly seems niche marketed >(businessdictionary com: Concentrating all marketing efforts on a small but specific and well defined segment of the population. Niches do not 'exist' but are 'created' by identifying needs, wants, and requirements that are being addressed poorly or not at all by other firms, and developing and delivering goods or services to satisfy them. As a strategy, niche marketing is aimed at being a big fish in a small pond instead of being a small fish in a big pond. Also called micromarketing.) niche also seems like a word whose meaning isn’t particularly solid across populations of English speakers. Still, in 2012 at least it’s WAY more popular than I thought, and multiple sources from youtubers to some kinda news format claimed it was “niche” and “not mainstream” on multiple occasions, claiming that it was a misconception. >anime is popular with tv ratings in 2012 ranging mostly form 1% to 3 or 4% so I was wrong But >I was unlucky enough to be fooled into thinking it was “not mainstream” or “niche” by multiple independent sources ranging from anime/japan news sites (sys.Sup Forums.org/derefer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgoboiano.com%2Fheres-money-actually-made-anime%2F and others) to youtuebrs, and random forum users, who said they already knew how much money it made. But seeing the actual ratings turned me. Deal?
Jaxson Taylor
Alright, it wasn't a forum post but a trashy article.
Multiple statements are wrong. > The average employee works 12 hour shifts The average Japanese worker works 1730 hours per year (2016), ~33.3 hours per week. Source: stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS
The article also overestimates the importance of BD/DVD sales, which in many cases are less important than merchandise.
> I was talking about how popular it is. You provided japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/09/07/national/japan-home-541000-young-recluses-survey-finds/#.WpyzinBMGEc as source and implied that NEETs are the only avid anime watchers. Then you responded that NEETs are the people buying all the merch, because they don't have work on monday. I objected by making an sarcastic statement. >Certainly NEETs who clearly get a 1000k yen paycheck from the goverment for being NEETs. In which I implied that NEETs do not have the money to buy anime merchandise.
>Deal? Alright.
Jordan Perry
Deal confirmed, I was wrong but I don’t feel guilty for researching it and finding more and more shit that supported me.
The rest of ur post is true, alls well, but i wanna point out that I got 10 hours a day for 6 to 7 days a week from what kotaku.com/being-an-animator-in-japan-is-brutal-1690248803 says about animators daily work. Cntrl F “ten hours a day” and you’ll see it.
Still, y’all were completely right. The ratings turned me, if that many people watched inuxbokuss then no wonder the japs are working themselves to death. They aren’t sleeping either
Colton Gutierrez
People record and watch the episodes at their leisure, it's pretty common practice in Japan.
Hunter Gonzalez
The reason I find that hard to believe is anime has explored a broader range of genres than western animation has. Broader ranges typically mean there are numerous sub-demographics that will buy into it.
Aaron Rogers
That’s a pretty clever point in all honesty. I’m going to steal that
Austin Sullivan
Just saying, the entire majority of western animation made for television is comedy. Action cartoons only come in small bursts and depend on toy sales while cartoons marketed to adults are entirely comedy.
Yet for some reason in japan, the contents are diverse even if things like combat shows and slice of life or sexual content reign supreme.
Andrew Green
I mean, either animators are being abused and studio CEOs make big phat cash on their back, or it's a struggling world and it's the only way it can survive. I always felt like it was the latter. Passion for anime is also a great excuse to abuse your workers and/or push them to the limit, just like the video game industry abuse theirs.
Jace Johnson
The videogame industry is definitely one where the producing company just sucks up all the money for almost no justifiable reason beyond malicious contracting.
