Is Griffith a tragic character?

Is Griffith a tragic character?

Nope just a two faced egotistical fag. Couldn't stop jerking it to himself and what he thought he was.

no he’s a charismatic scumbag who got impatient. He didn’t deserve the torture at the time though.

Does a bear shit in the woods?

Tragic in the sense that it's a tragedy he hasn't been sodomized to death yet.

I hate Griffith so fucking much. Die.

He's a tragic asshat

>People gives him shit even though it's no different from what we've seen in history

He got a shot to have what every king would've wanted without the bullshit war back and forth battles for decades. Lots of comrades already died in battle pursuing this dream of his, and they believed in it. So it makes sense that he sacrificed them.

Imagine there was no Casca or Guts, would we even give a shit if he killed them all?. It's gruesome? yes, but so is the battlefield.

>imagine if griffith wasn't an irredeemable cunt
impossible

He lost his wang and then got it back, Id say thats a happy ending

Yeah I would say he is a tragic hero, at least counting the Griffith before the Eclipse. He has the fatal flaw and everything.

is a crazy person tragic? yes.

Griffith also spent his entire life never losing a challenge or failing in a pursuit. This gave him a massive ego (Mostly what drove his ambitions for kingship)

Losing the duel with Guts shattered his self Image and sent him into an existential crisis that ultimately led to his downfall

This
He was a cuck that was perfect at everything
he gets beaten one day and he goes full cuck and ruins everything because he fucks the girl.
Dumb.
Yeah lets now turn the world into a crazy monster shithole.

witnessed

I feel that the nobility suspected he had a hand in the queens death, but overlooked it for the sole reason that she and her inner circle rubbed everyone the wrong way. Deflowering a princess was seen as his intent to gun for the king and shake up the whole order, thus he was put down very quickly

Yes and no. I think it was the fact Griffith's drive for a kingdom conflicting with him wanting to keep Guts with him that drove him to his existential crisis. Griffith lost mostly due to his inner conflict over Guts.

good point

And basically the existential crisis was the fact that something, for the first time, came before his dream.

yes like Douglas Quaid of Total Recall he get fucked by his past self

All rapists are tragic characters.

Another good one

Yes. Well he fucked over the only people who cared about him and all the mistakes near the end were his he did grow up the shit life and that probably heavily influences his personality and decision making.

A lot of people like to call Griffith a sociopath despite how he clearly cared about Guts and found a true spirit akin to his. He was the only person who made him stray from his dream. Griffith was most likely just someone who developed to look out for himself because that is what situations required.

If I was Griffith I would probably would've done the same thing regardless of my mistake outside of the rape. Hes not a perfect man hes a very flawed man but his situations and reactions are realistic and his past is most likely very tragic but at this point Miura would not want you to sympathize with Griffith and probably not at all even near the beginning. You're meant to hate him.

You cannot compare a battlefield to a sacrifice where you're 1000x times out matched and its meant to exist as a blood bath for his own benefit alone.

People die for dreams because they believe in them/want to be a part of them. The band members eaten by apostles and the torture branded Guts/Casca went through is not akin to dying to fellow warriors on the battlefield.

I still don't understand what made him feel so strongly about social hierachies/class etc. Did a noble shit on his face when he was a kid or something?

Society would not accept Griffith if he did not legitimize himself with a claim to royalty

He's the definition of a tragic character. I cried during the eclipse, not because all the hawks were dying, but because Griffith was succumbing to the worst side of himself and destroying his own humanity, it was harrowingly tragic.

Griffith deserves everything bad that has happened to him, it's all his own doing.

I've always thought the strange thing with Berserk is how little we know about the details regarding Griffith's back story and motivations. With Guts we know everything about him in detail, and with many supporting characters as well, but with Griffith we basically know nothing except that he was a street urchin.

i could forgive the sacrifice if he asked it and the band of hawk agreed to it, i could even make excuses that they were sacrificed for the greater good, but raping a woman and forcing you best friend to watch. There's nothing to argue he's evil.

how is he evil? literally anyone would make the same decision in his situation

I want Griffith to have a Sauron-ending where his soul gets ripped out of the baby vessel, who then can combine with the moon child that is the body's original soul. Basically forcing Griffith to roam the earth as a pathetic little spirit who can never again gain power. It would be a fitting end for someone who desired power above all else.

I think that was symbolic of Griffith being given a second chance and choosing to be the broken version of himself.

Would you rape Casca just to fuck with your best friend?

He was engaged in forbidden love with his one true love Gennon. None could understand them.

but can you justify raping your best friend's girlfriend right in front of him?

...

Would you a Griffith?

after my dream being crushed because my bf left me, tortured and maimed to insanity for a year, shown illusions by interdimensional demons and then turned into a demon bird? I probably would desu, you can't remain the same person after all that no matter how idealistic you are

> Isn't everyone a shitter like me?
user, I...

This type of analysis overlooks the obvious problem that killing your own comrades is very different than killing random enemies on a battlefield. Sure if you look at it in terms of just numbers war death is war death, but that's not the issue. If your close war buddies die and you think well it's just a statistic people die in war everyday, then there's probably something wrong with you. If you killed them yourself then there's definitely something very wrong with you.

you can pretend to be a some kind of incorruptable hero but you know you'd do the same thing in a heartbeat, much faster than griffith did

no not that, I mean way way before. The fact that he even formed the BotH and said he wanted his own Kingdom, among other things. What motivates him so strongly?

exactly, I'd imagine Miura has a good reason for this. If anything he's proven he knows how to develop characters. So I assume he's leaving that part out intentionally.

>cripple who'll never recover
>only way out is to sacrifice everyone else
Plenty of people would do that.

the plot?

>If your close war buddies die and you think well it's just a statistic people die in war everyday, then there's probably something wrong with you
You may be morally right, but you aren't objectively correct. Feelings don't change facts.

Humans are dickheads and only think about themselves altruism is a lie.
The kindness is thought to us, there is no real good in us all of it is fake.

he was basically tricked into saying yes anyway, I don't understand how anyone could blame him for it

Destiny fucked him over. Yes, it's a tragic character in the greek sense.

It literally doesn't matter. Maybe it's understandable to an extent, but it doesn't make it any less evil.

>So it makes sense that he sacrificed them.
When you take men to war, it is not as sacrifices. Typically, the last thing you want is to lose even a single man. You fight and RISK lives, but hope to lose none.

wouldn't say he was tricked, they gave him a choice. Reject the offer and return to a broken body, but with his humanity restored. or accept and be given a perfect body with no humanity whatsoever.

Hm, was Griffith ever written as a just and righteous character? In my opinion, no. I don't think he was corrupted to make that decision. Even if he wasn't tortured I still think he would've made the decision to sell-out. That's just who he is.

Did he even get to bust in Charlotte?

Did destiny also force him to rape Casca in front of Guts?

It's a story about characters, not a story about war statistics. Their feelings and motivations are the relevant aspects of understanding their actions. When people have said that what Griffith did was wrong, it was never an objective analysis of the consequences of war; it's an analysis of his motivations and intentions. The view you're putting forward is purely utilitarian, whereas a proper analysis of Griffith pretty obviously should warrant a more deontological understanding of his actions.

Yes. Freewill is an illusion.

tragic in the sense that he did everything wrong after losing to Guts and that it's all his fault

careful with that edge

Had Griffith not sperged out over losing Guts and kept his dick away from the Princess, he would have literally been given a kingdom. But no, the little autist couldn't accept his fate and screws everyone over.

Griffith did nothing wrong, guts fags will be mad and stay mad over nothing. Griffith will save the world.

Well then you're a fucking retard. He literally whored himself in order to prevent the deaths of his subordinates instead of sending them to death with poor equipment.

... You know what, yes actually.

Don't forget that BECAUSE he raped Casca, her unborn child was corrupted by his seed. Thus, Griffith was eventually able to use it to return to the physical world as a living "god".

The same could be said about Guts being an autist who thought everyone hated him and that he had no friends.
Seriously, fuck that autist "WAA GRIFFITH SAID I WASN'T HIS FRIENDS WHILE TRYING TO GET THE PRINCESS WET, I'M GONNA GO AND NEVER COME BACK!"

but he was completely destroyed both mentally and physically and the god hand twisted his memories trying to convince him that his dream is the only real part of his personality, he probably wouldn't even know if any of it was real at that point

Guts gets a pass because he is a meat head

The god hand had their own motives for accepting him, but it was still ultimately his choice.

>but he was completely destroyed both mentally and physically
whose fault was that?
it's all on him m8

That's one way to think of it. Or you could say he did what he had to do for the sake of his dream.

guts

This never gets covered in detail. People will just say, "its just the kinda guy he is" as if that's how motivation works. Well we know he was a poorboy at some point, so I just assume he wanted to create a more fair/just society. Later in the anime the ghosts say they want to follow him because the kingdom he would build would be "glorious", which I assume means better for the common-man

Not explaining himself was indeed Guts' mistake, but he
1) had reason to believe Griffith didn't think of him as a friend
2) was really upset about that
and most importantly
3) couldn't have imagined Griffith would have a heartbreak meltdown, rape the princess while thinking she was Guts, get caught, get tortured, the band would get exiled and executed, etc etc
I mean shit man he just did what he could because
4) Griffith said that if Guts ever beat him, he would no longer be his.

he is a small character.

nope
it's Griffith's

Imagine having your body, mind and dream destroyed just because ONE (1) mistake, the first one in your whole life.
Imagine that mistake being caring for ONE (1) person, the same cunt who left you without explanation right after humilliating you in fron of the inner circle of your band, only to come back to save the shell of what no one would consider even remote to your old self and to take your old band from you. Also he will steal the dark chocolate girl who was orbiting you.
Forever as a cripple you will only be constantly remembered by your son (who's actually not yours but his) of his existence, because that dark whore will obviously call him Guts.
Just try to imagine.

nope

What ghosts? Maybe it was demons referring to the Pandemonium that Griffith would create as Femto.

Still his choice.

>Still his choice.
Was it? Or was he compelled by destiny to rape her?

go ahead and post an argument for it being Guts's fault then

Put your trip back on Hawk.

Yes. It just happen he did something awful to the people who were his friends, and even someone who he considered as his lover and right hand. The symbol of the castle in the sky, in his awakening with the red Behelit, it's important for what he wanted to achieve and how impossible it seemed when he was a smol child. Some ass hats might say it's for a greater good, but right now he's more like the false savior in the apocalypse .

What the fuck is destiny you retarded?

He did everything. So what if everything was pre-ordained? You see Guts going against destiny all the time.

Maybe it comes down to you if you believe in destiny or causality or whatever

All of his tragedies are his own fault. How can Griffith flags depend him????

>1) had reason to believe Griffith didn't think of him as a friend
Yeah, because water fights while naked is something you constantly do with a subordinate. Also, the night they killed the queen they talked like always, Griffith was just sweet talking the princess.
>2) was really upset about that
Guts autism is not Griffith's fault.
>What the fuck is destiny you retarded?
Nigger that's the whole point of the manga.

>>What the fuck is destiny you retarded?
Wanna try that again?

>So what if everything was pre-ordained?
The question was if it was destiny, not if it was his choice or not. His choice could be destined. In fact, the point of him receiving the egg of the king and eventually using it was that it was his destiny to do so. Griffith is wrapped in destiny, Guts is defined by free will and breaking fate.

Calm down.

he left his husbando without explanation like some autist

Does he sucks dick only for money or because he likes it?

>What the fuck is destiny you retarded?
is the thing that the egg fucks, making one so deperate that he has a reason to fucking use it.

Are you literaly fucking retarded?

>>Yeah, because water fights while naked is something you constantly do with a subordinate. Also, the night they killed the queen they talked like always, Griffith was just sweet talking the princess.
You don't need to tell me that. The fact is Guts heard it and believed it, and even to some degree Griffith believed it as well, or at least wanted to. Griffith is someone beyond Guts, who is a simpleton, so when he heard those lies he took them to heart.

Takes cock to pay the bills and bangs girls to appease the existential crisis

guts can go against destiny because he literally exists outside causality because he wasn't supposed to be even born

you aren't responsible for other peoples emotions and irrational actions if you decide to leave them

When Griffith straightup asked if Guts hated him after the Queen ordeal, Guts was being needlessly secretive and honestly pretty unfriend-like. Guts made a conscious bad decision and rightfully feels guilty afterwards. Griffith on the otherhand has been through some shit, through otherworldly deception, and been around people who see him as an icon more than a fellow person. He is a tragic character for sure, and Femto is an apathetic monster

then why is griffith is responsible for the king's emotions and irrational actions?

>dump depresive girl without explanation and never contact her again
>she kills herself
>lol what a stupid bitch

That's like the whole point of the manga, Guts it's called the struggler for reason. There is this thing called the idea of evil, it's God, Indifferent and with a plan so beyond, that a few wars and some rape it's meaningless in the picture that this thing it's setting. Giffith just carries his will and has given the humans in the Berserk world the sense of free will. It may be that Guts represent the will of some other being, but it's just speculation based in an erased chapter.

It was the God Hand's vision and him seeing his fallen comrades. I don't think it works that way either, I think it was just toying with his memories

. I mean, well ya

pretty much
but in that situation you're also pretty stupid to be in a relationship with someone like that

If you have no friends, or close ones, would the behilit just not work for you?

I can never hate Griffith because he's just so compelling.
He's so larger then life he can't fully accept or even perceive the fact he can be frail like any other man.
Its true that they were persuasive, but being manipulated isn't true. They merely reminded him the nature of his life and ego.
If they left him be to decide it would've taken longer but he would've went to the same conclusion.

On an off note,
I just love the fact that the god hand are essentially beings of immense power,
and yet two of them go through the trouble of manually putting on a disguise instead of transforming or something.

because he didn't just leave, he fucked his princess-daughter