How do we fix the shounen genre? What did the likes of Bleach, Naruto and KHR do right where other anime failed?

How do we fix the shounen genre? What did the likes of Bleach, Naruto and KHR do right where other anime failed?

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Make them all like HxH and YYH but instead of having shitty deus ex machinas, make them actually good.

Naruto was actually quite okay at first. It was a shounen that hammered home just how heavy death was in the first arc and just how tragic the lifestyle was ... and then TOURNAMENT ARC and it forgot what it was.

Have a decent opening theme

It's just really cool and emotional.

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Shonen isn't a genre.

>Naruto and KHR do right where other anime failed

Alpha MC

It was the very definition of “shooting your load too soon”. I’m certain the chuunin exam has been regarded as the high point of the entire manga because of the character developments and fights, but looking back, it’s clear that Kishi had no long term plan for those characters

>What did the likes of Bleach, Naruto and KHR do right
Absolutely nothing. Off yourself.

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Did you really come here just to tell someone to kill themselves for wanting to discuss what anime do right? I doubt you've even seen them or are even capable of writing a coherent paragraph so you spent your life shitposting.

You can't refute me though.

Any shonen thay gets the powerlevels to country level is DoA.

No one enjoys talking about shit series with a shit shounen eater. Get lost.

>doing something right
choose one

Stop using WSJ as the gold standard for shounen.

Still waiting on that paragraph.


Not him, but why would someone write a paragraph to engage in a discussion that he doesn't want to take part in, about a topic that he wouldn't enjoy writing about?

The only good thing about it was th pacing.

>not him
No, I can tell you're the same guy, just with an ip changer.

Why is it so bad to enjoy a genre that is action focused? Are action movies bad for the same reason?

>Didn't have shitty deus ex Machina's

YYH did a number of things wrong that Bleach did right. Or are you going to tell me that the Yukina Resuce arc wasn't an inferior version to the superior Soul Society arc?

Or how about the time YYH revealed that Yusuke had demon blood in him and it came out of nowhere? Or the fact that the Underworld Arc chickened out on the Three Way War to have another tournament arc.

Kubo actually established the Quincy blood thing for Ichigo back in the Soul Society arc and created a final arc that actually followed what he had written previously about how the Quincy haivng the Volsterndeict were stronger than the Captain Soul Reapers with Bankai.

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You can enjoy them, that's what they're meant for. But you shouldn't expect one to have excellent writing, or to have others think that it does. At the end of the day, they exist to provide down-to-earth entertainment, and both those who enjoy them and those who don't should acknowledge that.

Death is what makes shonen interesting UNLESS They have overwhelming writing quality like One Piece, OP can ignore killing characters because it's just that good. For the rest of shonen, the fights are great because you never know if your favorite non-MC character will die, and it's also great seeing the fights have a realistic closure by fucking killing your enemy I mean they use lethal techniques.

Dragon Ball Super is the biggest example of that last bit done wrong, there is no battle damage. They just take massive killing lasers and merely get pushed away when both DB and Z showed us that those beams vaporize you (or fuck you up big time)
About the weight of death, Boku no Hero is ruined for NOT using it and it doesn't have the quality of OP to justify taking so little risks. I can't be as hyped as I should when I know everything is all K at the end of the day as if it was Pokemon. Everything is too harmless despite the characters telling otherwise.

>Toei anime
Stopped reading there. One Piece is also a deconstruction, not a shonen. Toei is cancer. They're not doing anything right. Ever.

What they did right was having engaging characters WITHOUT feeling like modern anime pandering. A very 90s thing to do. Right now most generic shonens show you why they are trash by having exaggerated transformations out of nowhere as if they were Sailor Moon or some tumblr fanfic, shoehorning some loli or big titted girl with coloured hair, etc.. It FEELS like they are trying to fill a list, and they probably do. Doesn't feel natural.

Now, when introducing the ninja teams back in Naruto, I didn't feel treated like an idiot that way. Kishimoto simply sat down some hours thinking up about magical-ninja ways to fight and drawing cool characters, as it should. If you don't get it I can't explain better, I just get back tingles whenever I feel the author isn't doing something out of love. As a kid who used to draw, I know if the author honestly thought his idea was good or if he was filling a quota as is what happens with modern shonen.

You make something with love and people will notice.

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>deconstruction and shonen are mutually exclusive
>One Piece being a deconstruction at all anyway
You retards are going too far with calling shit deconstructions.

>parodies emotional death scenes by killing off a fucking ship
>I wadda libe
>that moment when ace dies and luffy screams it out
>not a deconstruction

>Good writing
Oh user. I am so sorry for your shit taste. I will grant you that you and a lot of Nip children think nakama: the story is good. But in reality all Oda is good at doing is world building and making some nice looking panels. The pacing is shit, the story itself is as generic as can be (pirates looking for treasure, wowee) and the characters are pretty damn cookie cutter and frankly it's been years since a new character wasn't an extremely one note thematic piece (same problem Kubo had by the end on Bleach too).

i am really enjoying Nanatsu no Taizai if you give a fuck about that

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I did stop watching OP at the timeskip, but up to Ennies Lobby at least it was just as enjoyable as Naruto or Bleach anime ignoring the filler arcs

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All of those were 100% sincere. Of all the series to call a deconstruction, One Piece is one of the more outlandish.

Nostalgia goggles. Toei is cancer. You're just justifying being a bettered wife. You invalidated yourself by admitting you watched the anime post episode 1. You aren't worth my time.

>all of those were 100% sincere
Come the fuck on? These are the type of people that shit on One Piece when they don't understand when they're being shit on? Be honest with me. You have zero reading comprehension or just never read the one piece manga to begin with.

Bleach had cool art and a MC that would have been easy to self-insert into for a teenager, I guess.
Naruto had some idea about the importance of themes and character arcs in a story. Its problem is that characterization and plot fell apart when examined on the long run.
Haven't read KHR.

IMO, the problem comes from the weekly comic format as a whole:
1) Most book writers need several drafts to manage truly cohesive long-term storytelling. When a mangaka has a really cool idea for a twist, scene, fight later in the story, but he can't go back and establish the proper foreshadowing, the story suffers massively. Either the twist idea goes unused, or the twist is introduced without the appropriate foreshadowing.
2) Shonen Jump needs to keep pumping out magazines and Toei/Pierrot/whoever is adapting needs to keep making anime, so character arcs end up being postponed for decades or repeated ad-nauseum.
3) And since the stories often end up expanding needlessly, new characters end up less liked than the beloved original cast, and merchandise needs to be sold, the mangakas often find themselves too eager to revive old characters, or ignoring character development and repeating the same arc again and again.

Which is why most of the best Shonen either have a setting or plot device that allows the story to jump from place to place without major carryovers from previous arcs, like One Piece, HxH and JoJo, or started out with a relatively well outlined plot, like FMA and Death Note.

He said "but instead of shitty Deus Ex Machinas". Meaning they have shitty Deus Ex Machinas that bring them down.

I mean if the characters are likeable and the world is interesting as fuck, mostly because of said characters and their organizations, can we really be blamed for considering it good writing?
In the end of the day the story is of course very basic, pirates fighting for treasure, but a lot of stories can be reduced that way. In practice every arc ends up being really convoluted (in a good way) and most of them are enjoyable to read. If anything Luffy sperging out is always top-tier.

Scenes seeming silly to you because you don't think anyone would do them sincerely isn't a good argument for them being ironic and deconstructing shit. One Piece has always been 100% sincere and you look like a retard claiming it's a deconstruction just so you don't feel awkward watching or reading it.


>How do we fix the shounen genre?
For starters, how about letting it die?

You do realize that Bleach also had good stories right? Or are you going to tell me that the manga somehow managed to make it to 74 volumes because of art?

Something like Fairy Tail only made it to 63 because there is a HUGE amount of fanservice uses as the manga went on. It's clear it wasn't meant to run long and only ran long because of the statement "Sex sells".

>implying it's not still an applicable word
I don't know what else they'd be called. A "scene" can take up several panels and pages. Trying to frame me as an anime-only is also not a good way of arguing. I dropped the anime at the Foxy arc.

Stupid anime secondaries watching Toei.

Indeed. If Naruto, Bleach and One Piece did something undeniably good was the characters. Those 3 fuckers became as known as they are because everyone and their mother had 1 or 2 characters they liked. They were somehow cool, by both their personalities and powers, they had soul while I feel a lot of generic modern shonen are like seasonal ecchi. "Alright lets introduce a cool mysterious fucker, a loli and a screaming retard that powers up with friendship and call it a day".
I remember being hyped about the Kages and other high ranked ninja, Rock Lee and wondering about the strongest jutsus of everyone, the Captains in the Soul Society and their bankais and how badass they were being thousands of years old swordsmen, and lets not even get started on One Piece and its world bigger than our own world.
I guess pacing was what helped classic shonen, they introduced and teased characters for a while, letting you know them and care about them before having them duck it out. HxH too is good at this, before any real duel we first spend dozens of episodes simply getting to know Gon and his friends.

>started OP by reading the manga
>continuously read the manga for over a decade while dropping the anime
>somehow still considered a secondary
I don't even really watch any anime anymore.

I unironically try to only watch shonen. I know I would like shit like Monster or Mushishi or Detective Conan, but I feel pathetic thinking about using the anime medium for anything other than high-stake powered battles of fists and wit. Anime is at its best with that level of intensity, and also I don't want it to be TOO mature so I ignore stuff like Alucard despite having good action. Shonen hits a nice middle point of having fights without going overboard.

Of course occassionally I watch something not-shonen, but I feel dirty

>making up things on the internet

Bleach has a better narrative than Fairy Tail. That is for sure. But even Soul Society was more like a cool twist on a standard story, told in a really proficient way.

Have you tried talking about it on reddit? I bet you'll like it there.

You are fucking retarded. Learn how to read before you post.

>i hate shounen because reddit likes it

must be sad being you

Make the entire plot a giant tournament.
Kengan Ashua shows that its possible.

>It was the very definition of “shooting your load too soon”.
Sorry user, I'm a moron, so can you explain to me the context of this according to your own perspective?

Bleach had great art until the Byakuya art. Tite got lazy.
Naruto had a good establishment of what the stakes were until they fucked themselves over back during the Chuunin Tourney
Katekyo did nothing right, so you're on point about that.

Well good friend, the issue is that 3 of the most successful shounen series ever are very very poorly paced and poorly written.

Dragonball Z's narrative devolves into nonsense carried entirely on Toriyama's ability to panel and plan fights and willingness to do things try absurd ideas. Toriyama's has perpetuated the idea that consistency doesn't matter as long as things remain "interesting." This philosophy is currently why Super is such a hot button topic, because Toriyama is giving ideas but not actually planning how things reach said conclusions himself, thus the flaws inherent in dragonball are more visible.

Next came One Piece, who brought the idea of the "never ending serial" with it to popularity in the Shounen series. The idea of just going from arc to arc for YEARS. Apparently Oda HAD a plan, but we won't see how well it executes as a series until it's over. This though however has set a BAD trend in other Shounen, in which many try and drag things out as long as possible or don't have a planned mapped out ending. Thus when the axe comes down for a series, stuff like what happened to Bleach happened.

Lastly, we have Naruto which I shows how BAD Power Creep has gotten in current Shounen. In which Kishimoto managed to making engaging fights early on, all of that was sucked away in favor of BIGGER and MORE FLASHY because that's what readers are perceived to want. Why invest in a story or characters when what people really want is to see the next cool attack from the character they self insert into? Dragonball did this as well, but I'd say Naruto was the one that really popped up and helped push the scale.

So in short

Shounen need
1. To balance narrative/fights/presentation and not try and rely on two of these accepts
2. Be planned out and not all aiming for 2 decade long runtimes
3. To control power scale and know when to scale back

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Realistically once One Piece ends in 10-20 years shonen is dead because nothing is popular enough to replace it.

>toei anime faggot
Every time.

Suck a dick bitch

Naruto (the character) has an actual personality, for one. Generic nice guys are trash.

What are the most popular shonen?

Just bring back hokuto no ken.


I'm saving your write-up, it's actually smart. That Powercreep part is so true and I didn't stop to think before. How on Earth could early fights be so interesting with just some shuriken, kunais, fists, kicks and 1 or 2 jutsus? They were more interesting than watching 2000 punches per second with people running at the speed of light shooting beams. And it happens in a lot of shonen.

If I ever make a shonen I'll try to stay self-conscious and don't powercreep, early villains should still be a threat later on.

>What did the likes of Bleach, Naruto and KHR do right
fucking nothing, they ruined it for years to come

>How do we fix the shounen genre? What did the likes of Bleach, Naruto and KHR do right where other anime failed?

Naruto had:

1- A main character with a very clear goal that has to do with the setting, and that somehow manages to not only be that goal. Common shounen MCs either have no main goal, or their main goal tells everything about them.

2- Plenty of impactful characters; they're not just Around the main character, they move the plot just as much and the story is arguably more about them than the MC. They are the main protagonists of their own stories.

3- Good setting; it starts with a very simple premise, and slowly adds elements to it.

4- Interesting art. This is by far the most important point for a successful anime. It's not necessarily well-drawn or realistic, just interesting; a unique style that draws people's attentions. An anime/manga has to be done in such a way that people can look at ANY frame and know exactly where it came from. Look at Simpsons for example, you can look at any house, or even at the grass and you know it came from Simpsons; every character is goddamn yellow and has a distinct style from other animations. This was implemented well in Naruto and other mangas like Dragon Ball.

I think powercreep also partly happens because of the writers wanting character development. For long stories (like most shonen seem to aim for), I imagine it gets difficult to get meaningful progression. So they give characters new powers/skills/tools/whatever, so they can throw obstacles at their characters that they couldn't handle before. It's fine for a series to escalate in scale, but you have to have careful pacing so it doesn't get out of control (again, especially relevant for longer stories)

>Naruto was actually quite okay at first. It was a shounen that hammered home just how heavy death was in the first arc and just how tragic the lifestyle was ... and then TOURNAMENT ARC and it forgot what it was.
>forgot what it was

No, it didn't. I went back and rewatched all of Naruto start to end, with these kinds of criticisms in mind. I think that a lot of folks are upset because the series didn't turn out as they wanted, but if you actually pay close attention or do a re-watch a lot of this was set up from the start.

>The "cycle of hatred" and "cursed shinobi way of living" was established in the hallowed Zabuza arc
>It was foreshadowed early on that Naruto would learn to control the nine tails. Sure it gets a bit insane but this was - again - hinted at also since the land of waves arc. The Kaiju battle with the Shukaku just provided more evidence of the direction the series would head in.
>the story isn't just about ninjas, its a criticism of the shinobi/mercenary way of life, and a tale of how it's brought to an end because it causes so many problems

Sure, if you watched it, and got hooked on certain things and developed expectations, I get it. Hell, I'm not even saying you have to like it. But I think a lot of people didn't understand what the series was supposed to be about, and got frustrated when it didn't match what they thought it aws.

Detective Conan is shonen.

This. Naruto was consistent all the way through. The whole point was starting out as weak genin with limited skills and seeing them progress to more and more OP ninja in the village. The begging fights were asspull city (lolnope I made a bunshin while u weren't looking :^) ). The fights only got smart once the chunin exam came and pretty much kept going all throughout shippuuden.
Naruto was also distinct between the big shounen in that it was not afraid in killing characters. Naruto's biggest flaw imo is the Pain revive thing and that Naruto saved Gai, because otherwise as already mentioned it was very serious with the dangers of war at times.

Easy. Accept that the story ends.

Naruto, 500+ episodes of excellent story and character development, conflict and resolution, outcast friends and unlikely allies all brought together, even as far as the heroes of the past literally passing on their blessings to the future generation. All of it littered with deeply touching moments like how it took nearly a decade of story telling for us to finally see a resolution to the wayward brothers uchiha. Sure there were plenty of miss steps like the filler arcs for sure, but there was a deeper story that drove fans wild trying to piece together. Then after all that they shit all over all of it with some cash grab nonsense by following it up with boruto. Instead they should have let the story end, wrapped it up where it was meant to be.

If they had just let the story die after having been so strong for so long and so dear to so many people like me who had literally grown up with the character they could have begun something new and revitalized the genre with fresh IP.

I feel the same way. I'm the one who listed the 3 flaws. What I wanted to highlight is that a lot of authors fail to make getting strong meaningful or they give a protagonist a new toy just to give the appearance of character growth

Pic related is pretty shitty and I'm only still reading it because I'm invested, but for how bad it gets I think it did some things right. The strongest characters so far other than the deities at full strength are pretty tame in terms of destructive abilities, no citybusters and no mountainbusters. The fights end up being pretty interesting because it is not just a power level manga, at least not yet. However the powercreep is shit because the MC goes from someone with potential to master in only a few chapters after shit goes down. I think shounens are a lot more interesting in the beginning when they're small scale.

YYH for example was pretty entertaining when Yusuke was grounded, three spirit guns a day. Post dark tournament was retarded. Younger Tuguro was perceived as a huge threat despite being a B class, possibly A class demon? Then came Sensui who possessed S level strength and Yusuke stood no chance until his demon ancestor asspull, not to mention how Kurama Hiei and Kuwabara jumped to A level instantly having witnessed the fall of their friend. It only got more retarded during the second tournament, when C level demons trained off screen and became S level. I think the main issue is powercreep always gets bad when a villain is introduced and they are far stronger than the protagonist, to the point where the protagonist needs to gain some ridiculous amount of power and end up doing it by some retarded means i.e inner demon, destiny, transformation etc.

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bleach was fine at the start but midway through saving rukia a formula was formed that repeats. ichigo learns a new power that allows him to defeat the enemy. it actually got annoying that they wouldnt just leave shit 1 way . every season that fucker got a new power

also all shonen shit besides one punch man suffers from the i gotta explain shit mid battle syndrome. no. fuck no .that shit isnt acceptable. just stop. i blame DBZ for that shit. i also blame DBZ for all bleach characters flying after season 2

the worst part is individual concepts in bleach would have been fine as standalones without any bleach characters. like the aranchars could have just been their own thing without shinigami as a story made based on a distortion of buddhism and just fighting each other in some afterlife world eating each other and evolving and forgetting who they were (yes buddhism has multiple planes of existence its not all being reborn on earth). go full on nolan with that shit. make every one feel bad just reading it

One Punch Man is seinen. You guys don't even know what you're talking about.

It might as well be.

Make the person who stands off to side and in your typical shounen the main character. Have them be a non-combatant whose main goal is to maintain/refine the power level system the series uses. And to do that, they would travel around the world observing various fights and disputes. I think the set-up could provide two main advantages:

>Limited Powercreep
Because the MC isn’t the one fighting, characters and antagonists don’t need to be constantly getting stronger. Power levels can jump around between arcs as stronger characters can fight each other in one arc and weaker ones can fight in the next.

>Higher Tension
Since the MC isn’t participating, any other character fighting can win, lose, or even die. Fights are now less affected by things like plot armour and deus ex machina, preventing situations like all the other characters inevitably losing to the villain before the hero shows up and fixes everything.

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I don't want to get murdered because I don't frequent Sup Forums ever, but I need a quick answer that Google isn't providing: if/when does the anime explain that Pain/Nagato is an Uzumaki?

Naruto did have coherent themes throughout the story and the end game of Naruto, as the Ninja that would become Hokage and establish some kind of peace in the land, was pretty clear from the Zabusa arc. That doesn't mean that the story was well-planned or executed. I don't particularly blame Kishimoto, since the format in which he was writing has certain pressures as mentioned here , but:
The way in which Shinobi impact regular society was dropped pretty fast, with basically no relevant non-Ninja characters being introduced after that arc, and the way in which Shinobi are subordinated to Feudal Lords is very nonsensical once you consider the ridiculous power of the Kages in later arcs
The Shukaku attack is if anything further evidence that the power levels got raised too much by spectacle creep in the Pain arc. And it is also a subplot that is suspended far too long. Kurama as a character basically goes missing from Zabusa to the Sasuke fight before the time skip, to the training with Bee, in which he is basically tamed in a few chapters
The Shinobi way of life is not properly criticized. Because, again, the story focuses entirely on Shinobi and completely ignores the suffering of those without power. If a clash between Shinobi completely destroys your village, it seems likely that commoners would just come to hate Shinobi. Which would lead to a conflict that Shinobi would undoubtedly win, and at that point the Ninja would become feudal lords. And nothing like that happens because it doesn't make sense in the story Kishimoto wants to tell
>Kaguya as a whole

And that is only regarding the larger themes. Character motivations are often irrational and sometimes even nonsensical. Sasuke, Sakura, Itachi, Orochimaru, Kabuto, and Danzo being the biggest offenders, but Obito, Madara, and Zetsu also relied on coincidences. Mostly the result of Kishimoto needing something to happen so he can get certain conflicts and developments in place

>Make them all like HxH and YYH but instead of having shitty deus ex machinas

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>How do we fix the shounen genre?
Already done.

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When Obito goes to retrieve his rinnegan he says something like "his red hair, proof of his Uzumaki lineage, turned white from using so much chakra"

>ignores the suffering of those without power
Wrong. It pays close attention to everyone's suffering and how it usually inspired them to be stronger. I.e. Nagato wouldn't be shit without Jiraiyas training.

>not properly criticized
In the context of the series it is. It's not supposed to be a historic recollection of Shinobi, it's just based loosely on it. It hammers in again and again how everyone suffers because of the existence of Shinobi and the hidden village system.

>feudal lords don't make sense because the kage are so strong
Yeah, but this is actually acknowledged in the show. Raw strength =/= authority or the ability to lead.

>commoners would come to hate shinobi
The problem is that they who live in the villages rely on Shinobi to make money and maintain their way of life. The hidden village system and their missions are cash cows which is why the system is perpetuated. And everyone in their respective villages only care about their own interests for the most part. Nagato destroyed the leaf because his parents died by Konoha hands and their wars ravaged his country too, remember?

>What did the likes of Bleach, Naruto and KHR do right where other anime failed?
You watched them when you were a kid with low standards.

In one of his interviews (the one where Kishimoto states his dislike for current Isekai trends) he states that one of the things he likes the most about drawing Naruto was the "Modern Ninja" atmosphere, and as a middle schooler I personally liked Naruto over other ninja anime because of that.
It's very much a case of showing instead of telling, especially in the early volumes; the author doesn't feel obligated to explain lightpoles and flak jackets, it's just how ninjas are in this manga and that's how it is. Ultimately almost the entire world is explained by the end of the manga, but it is never explained until it has to be relevant.

tl;dr I think Kishimoto built a unique world in which the reader in which the reader could be eased into without infodumping, which is what makes it feel natural.

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Thank god they converted it from gag to action, but even then, everything after the Varia arc was shit. The series had potential, if the future arc didn't get dragged out for so long.
The main cast didn't need to receive upgrades at every opportunity possible.
The girls were considered so irrelevant that they were basically on permanent kitchen duty. I began to wonder why they were even included as characters.
The protagonist's development as a character was poorly done, and seemed to partially reset at the beginning/end of every arc. The last chapter was perhaps the biggest slap in the face.

So no. It did very little "right" and there are plenty of better examples for shounen manga and anime to follow.

Your exclusion of One Piece reveals a heavy western bias. It is far more popular in Japan than any of those three. In the first place, your question isn't very clear. Bleach, Naruto, and KHR may have had some popularity and success, but that doesn't necessarily equate to being well made. One Piece and Dragonball would be far better examples of success. If you want better writing, perhaps HunterxHunter or Full Metal Alchemist. Even if you disagree with those two as role models, Bleach, Naruto, and KHR are not well written overall.

Those two had the worst endings in history especially naruto who's still a cuck till this day. I wonder if there are people who are wathcing Boruto unironicaly.

Just make a shonen that makes thematic sense, that fleshes out side characters for as much variety as you can cram into your story and make strategic fights that don't devolve into a mess about who pukes the biggest beam after 8 volumes.

Bleach got rushed due to a combination of Kubo getting severely sick and Shueshia trying to rush him for not wanting to give them a shitty sequel that nobody asked for like Boruto.

Didn't you find it strange that after chapter 680 (end of Ichigo vs Juha Bach) the plot went on fast forward? It's quite obvious that Shueshia stuck their grubby hands on there to force it to end without a proper final battle. Especially since Kubo already set up all the major weakensses to Juha Bach:

>5 War Powers
>Aizen used Kyoka Suigetsu on Juha Bach
>Uryu had the antithesis which Juha Bach flat out stated surpassed his own power
>having that hibernative like sleep Juha Bach had to go though.

I'm going to assume you never read KHR, because its end is far worse than Naruto's or Bleach's.
I watch Boruto unironically. It started off somewhat reminiscent of pre-timeskip Naruto, but it has had a few bad story arcs, and the pace really needs to pick up. Overall unimpressed.

Those 3 series are pure garbage

> think ahead of time, have clear plotpoints and an end, go with the flow about how you connect each of them
> have a clear power roof
> give time to the rest of the cast, dont make everything about the MC
> dont make another vanilla MC, give him a personality, dreams, flaws and strengths
> give the villains an interesting reason to do what they do

Except that Nagato was of Shinobi blood. And later it is revealed that Madara planned for him to gain the Rinnegan. And later it is revealed that he was a descendant of the Sage of Six Paths. He was not a commoner.

I am not talking about the historic Shinobi. I am talking about the race of alien-energy-powered superhuman wizards that Kishimoto presents as Shinobi and who seem to represent all of the worthy military forces of the Naruto world and who seemingly caused the "Great Ninja Wars" to be so bloody.

All of the Feudal Lords we meet are bumbling buffoons. There is no real reason why the Kage wouldn't replace them. Specially once power levels go through the rooftop in the Fourth Ninja War arc and it becomes clear that

Except that:
All blame goes to the "circle of hatred". No missions taken by non-Rogue Ninja or given by Danzo are portrayed as morally questionable. There is no evil Kage, except Danzo who dies before he could take power.
Naruto himself keeps the Village and Mission system at the end of the series.
Nagato's parents are killed by a ridiculous mistake of the Shinobi and themselves.
If Nagato had not resurrected everyone once he was beaten by Naruto, the few surviving villagers of Konoha would have had all reason to hate Naruto even more. We don't know how often such events happened during the Ninja Wars, or what exactly causes the Ninja Wars had, but it seemed to me like it was implied that they were caused by Ninjas taking revenge on Ninjas until things went out of control. This would have meant that Ninjas would be held to blame for all destruction in their respective Land. The only complain we get is from a person from the Land of Rain.

Can someone explain why Sasuke doesn’t have his own equivalent of pic related? 6 extra helpers. Vision is shared. One guy can summon each other, etc.

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No, that's shitty because you've removed all the emotional investment in the fighting.

When someone asks you how the US made their astronauts appear weightless when they were filming the "moon landing" in a studio, you don't waste your time even responding to them. If you think Naruto is a shining example of what anime has to offer, you're completely fucking hopeless and suicide is the merciful option.

>The shounen genre
OP I don't think you got the right to speak about the "shounen genre" as you call it.

A genre with death note, naruto and To love ru?
Like, it's the genre of having a male protagonist? Oh can't be since toaru kagaku no railgun exists.

One punch man is published in a shonen magazine, therefore it's a shonen.

In the US it is but in Japan it's published in Young Jump (only digitally according to Wikipedia though) which is a seinen magazine.

Battle shonen is the capeshit of anime and should just die already.

Young Jump is not a shonen magazine or web service

>make them all shit instead of shit


this "chuuni exam is good" is a new thing

back then everyone knew naruto peaked at the zabuza arc

>this "chuuni exam is good" is a new thing
It's not, back then everyone was loving the fuck out of it (except the ino/sakura fight)

>if Naruto didn't save any one and just let nine tails destroy the rest of everything people would hate him
You don't say?